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Tags BFRO , bigfoot , matt moneymaker , sasquatch

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Old 7th April 2014, 06:26 AM   #241
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Hallucinations are influenced by the surroundings.
Someone might hallucinate a Bigfoot knocking on the window of their Mobile Home.

They are not going to report seeing a Bigfoot in their house, no other Bigfooters would believe that.
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Old 7th April 2014, 06:32 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Hallucinations can happen anywhere. Do you think many of these people hallucinate Bigfoot inside their home or at the office? Do they have hallucinations of Bigfoot giving their wife a bath and scrubbing her back?

Or do the visions only present themselves as a stealthy ape hiding in the woods?
Well, some folk see 'em peeping into family rooms and boudiors.
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Old 7th April 2014, 06:36 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Or do the visions only present themselves as a stealthy ape hiding in the woods?
How many visions are of Stealthy Apes?

They are only stealthy when the TV shows and Scientists get out in the Woods.

Almost every sighting, is a giant monster ripping leaves off of branches, hucking boulders at cabins, howling like a coyote, chasing cars on Indian Reservations, laying down in the road while they drive up to them in their truck.

Nothing stealthy about them, unless you are a TV show out trying to look for them.
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Old 7th April 2014, 06:52 AM   #244
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Hallucinators can be hoaxers sometimes.

1. Hallucinate a Bigfoot.
2. Know you hallucinated a Bigfoot.
3. Report or tell about seeing a genuine Bigfoot.

You be a hoaxer.
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Old 7th April 2014, 06:58 AM   #245
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I prefer to think of them as deliberate misidentifications. Someone with bigfoot on the brain goes out into the woods and sees some branches rustle or a fleeting glimpse of the back of a bear, or raccoon, or moose, or take your pic. Then that person has a brief internal dialogue where the rational voice says I don't know exactly what that was but it probably wasn't a bigfoot, or I cannot certainly says for a fact it was, and then the " I so badly want to see a bigfoot!" voice campaigns against that and the next thing you know you have a Class A footie sighting in the BFRO. And, more importantly, a new "knower". The person goes from could have been a bigfoot to most definitely was a bigfoot. This is the currency that gets them into the cult.
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Old 7th April 2014, 07:10 AM   #246
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Hallucinators can be hoaxers sometimes.

1. Hallucinate a dark hairy object in the woods
2. Report or tell about seeing a genuine Bigfoot.
3. Embellish the report with things that will make your report seem important and/or help you become a Footer.



The above would be my short version
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Old 7th April 2014, 07:24 AM   #247
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Reading dmaker's last post, I am reminded of Chris from KY who was briefly here awhile ago. He seemed to be a "knower" with pictures of inanimate objects offered as proof. I think it illustrates the mindset of those that can decieve themselves and not understand why the rest of us simply can't see it. In the old Mary Tyler Moore show I would get the feeling that Ted the anchorman was about to say something so clueless that I would be embarrassed for him. That is the vision I have for the club meetings bigfoot enthusiasts must have to discuss their 'sightings' and whatnot and figure a way to cook the books to make the evidence fit.
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Old 7th April 2014, 07:30 AM   #248
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I think it is worth pointing out that it takes a certain mind set to even be in a position for a deliberate misidentification to happen. You would have to be firmly in the bigfoot is possible camp. The rest of us would simply wonder was that a bear, or a raccoon, or the wind? Never once having the slightest moment of pause to consider if what we just caught a glimpse of was an 8ft unclassified ape.

When you have already bought into the myth to the degree that you seriously believe bigfoot is possible then I think it is only a matter of time for some of those people before they transform a perfectly normal event into their own, personal ( yet can't wait to share it) bigfoot story. If they do not do this, then they must start to accept that maybe bigfoot is not real. This is like some sort of belief system self defense.

Last edited by dmaker; 7th April 2014 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 7th April 2014, 07:32 AM   #249
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Sorry: double post by mistake.
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Old 7th April 2014, 08:23 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
I think it is worth pointing out that it takes a certain mind set to even be in a position for a deliberate misidentification to happen. You would have to be firmly in the bigfoot is possible camp. The rest of us would simply wonder was that a bear, or a raccoon, or the wind? Never once having the slightest moment of pause to consider if what we just caught a glimpse of was an 8ft unclassified ape.

When you have already bought into the myth to the degree that you seriously believe bigfoot is possible then I think it is only a matter of time for some of those people before they transform a perfectly normal event into their own, personal ( yet can't wait to share it) bigfoot story. If they do not do this, then they must start to accept that maybe bigfoot is not real. This is like some sort of belief system self defense.
And of course, once you're a knower, there's no admitting that you're sighting might have been due to some cognitive error or bias.

Wouldn't be much of a knower, otherwise.
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Old 7th April 2014, 09:12 AM   #251
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^^ No, of course not. One does not want to join the ranks of bigfoot apostates.

It is this difficult to detect line between full on delusional and deliberate con-artist that I find interesting to observe. It's one thing to claim you saw a bigfoot. It's a whole other thing to say and here's a picture and then offer a picture of nothing but trees, or burnt stumps, or a blurry "something". At this moment how do you ascertain whether the person truly believes they are showing clear photographic proof of bigfoot, or they are trying to show you scenery props hoping this will help sell you their story? In either case the end result is that the rational person sees no bigfoot in the picture and the delusional person and/or con-artist sniffs and emphatically points them out--usually with red crayon circles.

How do you tell them apart? I suppose other than the potential psychological insights to be learned there is no tangible benefit to telling them apart, nor is there any chance of moving them off of their position by pointing out the stunning lack of bigfoots in the photograph.

Last edited by dmaker; 7th April 2014 at 09:16 AM.
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Old 7th April 2014, 09:55 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
^^ No, of course not. One does not want to join the ranks of bigfoot apostates.

It is this difficult to detect line between full on delusional and deliberate con-artist that I find interesting to observe. It's one thing to claim you saw a bigfoot. It's a whole other thing to say and here's a picture and then offer a picture of nothing but trees, or burnt stumps, or a blurry "something". At this moment how do you ascertain whether the person truly believes they are showing clear photographic proof of bigfoot, or they are trying to show you scenery props hoping this will help sell you their story? In either case the end result is that the rational person sees no bigfoot in the picture and the delusional person and/or con-artist sniffs and emphatically points them out--usually with red crayon circles.

How do you tell them apart? I suppose other than the potential psychological insights to be learned there is no tangible benefit to telling them apart, nor is there any chance of moving them off of their position by pointing out the stunning lack of bigfoots in the photograph.
Makes one pine for the average bigfoot bs-er with his/her campfire stories about "dem boogers." Of course extra points for the Annapolis instructor with special forces sniper training, a top-secret security clearance, and a license to kill.

Of course that's more to remember.
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Old 7th April 2014, 10:10 AM   #253
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We really are missing the confessions and explanations coming from the hoaxers. We never see anything like "How I fooled the BFRO with a completely fabricated sighting report." Or "Confessions of a Bigfoot track maker".

We have not heard the hows and whys of the Bigfoot hoaxer in their own words.
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Old 7th April 2014, 10:14 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
We really are missing the confessions and explanations coming from the hoaxers. We never see anything like "How I fooled the BFRO with a completely fabricated sighting report." Or "Confessions of a Bigfoot track maker".

We have not heard the hows and whys of the Bigfoot hoaxer in their own words.
Didn't Dyer make some noises to that effect recently?
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Old 7th April 2014, 10:18 AM   #255
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That is not a confession when you say "Hank is a fake but I really did shoot a real Bigfoot."

He's not confessing to his Bigfoot lying.
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Old 7th April 2014, 10:20 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
We really are missing the confessions and explanations coming from the hoaxers. We never see anything like "How I fooled the BFRO with a completely fabricated sighting report." Or "Confessions of a Bigfoot track maker".

We have not heard the hows and whys of the Bigfoot hoaxer in their own words.
Is it perhaps because of : Hoaxers = Investigators
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Old 7th April 2014, 10:25 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Is it perhaps because of : Hoaxers = Investigators
Maybe. But when is one of them going to write the confession memoirs? Aren't there any of them that want to get out of the cult?
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Old 7th April 2014, 10:30 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
That is not a confession when you say "Hank is a fake but I really did shoot a real Bigfoot."

He's not confessing to his Bigfoot lying.
This is all part of the Bigfoot Performance Art package.
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Old 7th April 2014, 10:45 AM   #259
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And they never get tired of Performing and they never confess?
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Old 7th April 2014, 11:02 AM   #260
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Bob H tried, and they butchered him.
Ray Wallace tried and they butchered his memory.

You think Gimlin doesn't see how they reacted to that, and give pause about confessing?
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Old 7th April 2014, 11:23 AM   #261
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Wallace never confessed.
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Old 7th April 2014, 11:44 AM   #262
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No, but his kids did, after he died, and then the Footers took his memory to the wood shed.
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Old 7th April 2014, 11:50 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
And they never get tired of Performing and they never confess?
Perhaps they confess to spouse or s/o, who knows really. Look at Uri Geller.
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Old 7th April 2014, 11:52 AM   #264
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It seems Bigfootery pays very little.

Bigfootery hoaxing admission: even less.
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Old 7th April 2014, 12:44 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
No, but his kids did, after he died, and then the Footers took his memory to the wood shed.
Did they explain why their father never publicly confessed? Did he tell them why he always kept it a secret?
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Old 7th April 2014, 05:45 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
How many visions are of Stealthy Apes?

They are only stealthy when the TV shows and Scientists get out in the Woods.

Almost every sighting, is a giant monster ripping leaves off of branches, hucking boulders at cabins, howling like a coyote, chasing cars on Indian Reservations, laying down in the road while they drive up to them in their truck.

Nothing stealthy about them, unless you are a TV show out trying to look for them.
Obviously they need to contact bigfoot's agent.
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Old 7th April 2014, 07:55 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
...I don't think Bigfootery is always reducible to lying. But liars cannot be put aside as not being fundamental to the birth and perpetuation of Bigfoot belief.

...

My opinion is that some people see other people in the wilds (or not so wild areas) and come to believe that they are seeing (or saw) a Bigfoot. This kind of misidentification constitutes more than 90% of all genuine mis-IDs, in my opinion. It also makes more sense because they are seeing an actual bipedal primate but the error is that it's the wrong species...
Thank you and I totally agree.
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Old 8th April 2014, 05:23 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The conclusion of "people are seeing bears and then reporting Bigfoot" is unsupported and seems naive to the realities of Bigfootery.

IMO, if there is any misidentification justified and likely (no matter how remote the wilderness may be) it would be "people are seeing people and then reporting Bigfoot".
Well . . .

Quote:
“They’re a type of people, they’re a human-hybrid, we believe. And all of the DNA evidence points to that. And they can elude us, so if you get [footage] at all, it can be fleeting," Melba Ketchum (DVM)
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Old 8th April 2014, 01:44 PM   #269
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There are several reasons that my vote is that the vast majority of reports are lies. The evidence I have to support this exists of a post on the BFF from a long-time investigator. He had investigated local sightings for years. To make a long story short, after dozens, if not over 100 investigations, his results were...1 misidentification of a double-step bear track. 2 people who reported a known hoax ( a guy in an ape suit on the side of the road) and all of the rest admitted they were "making it up". Unlike Bobo and Matt, he would challenge the story teller.
To this I add my personal experience with people telling me local legends as if they were first-hand accounts. The first local legend is the "Catfish as big as a car at the bottom of the dam" story. I've been told this legend several times by" someone who knows the diver". A similar local legend springs from a wildlife management area near the Oak Ridge Tn nuclear reactor. Deer hunting is allowed, but all deer are checked for radiation levels. The local legend is that the deer "glow". I have had people tell me they have seen glowing deer in the area.
Based on these things, I believe the vast majority of bigfoot reports are just made-up stories more than anything else. Many start out as a lark, but grow as time goes by. Different people take it to different levels. For example, back in the old days of video games at the movie theatre - some people drop a few quarters into PAC MAN and see how they do, while others play for hours on end in order to get the high score.

As someone said above - Bigfoot performance art.
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Old 8th April 2014, 01:51 PM   #270
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And the best and most dramatic Bigfoot encounter stories are just the best lies.
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Old 8th April 2014, 03:40 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by comncents View Post
There are several reasons that my vote is that the vast majority of reports are lies. The evidence I have to support this exists of a post on the BFF from a long-time investigator. He had investigated local sightings for years. To make a long story short, after dozens, if not over 100 investigations, his results were...1 misidentification of a double-step bear track. 2 people who reported a known hoax ( a guy in an ape suit on the side of the road) and all of the rest admitted they were "making it up". Unlike Bobo and Matt, he would challenge the story teller.
Would you agree that those who make claims of seeing a Sasquatch face ridicule in their community or even from their friends and family?
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Old 8th April 2014, 03:57 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by Northern Lights View Post
Would you agree that those who make claims of seeing a Sasquatch face ridicule in their community or even from their friends and family?
Depends on if the friends or family are in on the joke. Gramma Schlegel used to tell any and sundry of the hoop snakes that used to roll down the hills in Pennsylvania like, well, hoops. She was just carrying on the legend, but Gramps would roll his eyes because there are no such things as hoops snakes. Then, we'd all chuckle

Folks tell all sorts of stories. Millions of people told a lie today, some of these lies cast them in a bad light. What matter of 6 thousand or so campfire stories over 40+ years about a North American monkey? Just a drop in the bucket.

Not that I'm saying you're lying NL.

ETA Not to mention the uncritical acceptance of all manner of nonsense in venues like BFF. Go over there right now and you'll see a half dozen posters shovelling ******** as fast as folks can absorb it. Then, they'll ask for more.

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Old 8th April 2014, 06:19 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by comncents View Post
There are several reasons that my vote is that the vast majority of reports are lies. The evidence I have to support this exists of a post on the BFF from a long-time investigator. He had investigated local sightings for years. To make a long story short, after dozens, if not over 100 investigations, his results were...1 misidentification of a double-step bear track. 2 people who reported a known hoax ( a guy in an ape suit on the side of the road) and all of the rest admitted they were "making it up". Unlike Bobo and Matt, he would challenge the story teller.
To this I add my personal experience with people telling me local legends as if they were first-hand accounts. The first local legend is the "Catfish as big as a car at the bottom of the dam" story. I've been told this legend several times by" someone who knows the diver". A similar local legend springs from a wildlife management area near the Oak Ridge Tn nuclear reactor. Deer hunting is allowed, but all deer are checked for radiation levels. The local legend is that the deer "glow". I have had people tell me they have seen glowing deer in the area.
Based on these things, I believe the vast majority of bigfoot reports are just made-up stories more than anything else. Many start out as a lark, but grow as time goes by. Different people take it to different levels. For example, back in the old days of video games at the movie theatre - some people drop a few quarters into PAC MAN and see how they do, while others play for hours on end in order to get the high score.

As someone said above - Bigfoot performance art.

This is great stuff.
Rural Tn is a gold mine for "urban" legends.
I have heard the catfish one many times at just about every dam, and the glowing deer one. How about the kid at creek who got into the "nest" of cotton mouths and died, or the cave nearby (wherever you are) where Jesse James supposedly buried some gold?
I think my actual favorite is that per capita, Jameston, Gainesboro, Sparta, Onieda and several other small towns, where named the unsolved murder capital of the world, and there was a story about it once on Paul Harvey back in the 80s. Multiple people have told me first had they heard Harvey say it, so I'm with you, "liars".
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Old 8th April 2014, 08:36 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by Northern Lights View Post
Would you agree that those who make claims of seeing a Sasquatch face ridicule in their community or even from their friends and family?
I would not agree with this statement unless it was qualified. Bigfooters are choosing to participate in a community that will celebrate their bs story. The better the story, the more brave a soul you are for sharing it. Nothing demonstrates this better than the rise of the "knowers" over the past few years. Far from being ridiculed as someone with such a story would (and should) be in other communities, the knower achieves instant celebrity 'footer status.

For people who are lonely, depressed, or marginalized, the instant respect, admiration, and simple attention that "knowers" get at the BFF must be an intoxicating rush, indeed.

I'll never understand the "why would someone share their story" schtick. Why wouldn't someone share a bigfoot story?! The stories are cool, people love bigfoot, and the "witness" gains instant celebrity. Heck, these days you can even get on TV for sharing your bigfoot story (so make it a good one!).
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Old 9th April 2014, 05:06 AM   #275
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When mere reports become pedestrian, then things really get interesting. You have the Nephalim bigfoot for the fundamentalists, the peace-loving, tree-hugging bigfoot for the hippie types, the more ominous in appearance with saggital crests or Dogman characteristics for scarier campfire stories. And of course, the "Big Reds" because . . . well because that's all the guy could think of at the time.

Not to put too fine a point on this but that's a lot of characteristics for a creature that has never been reliably observed. Which naturally raises eyebrows among the general public, and more so in the scientific community.

But they are not the target market.
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Old 9th April 2014, 05:52 AM   #276
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The Trickster and the Paranormal
http://books.google.com/books?id=H9j...igfoot&f=false
Go to Chapter 17 Unbounded Conditions
Woods and Wildmen Unbound is what he is saying here I think.
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Old 9th April 2014, 08:19 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
I would not agree with this statement unless it was qualified. Bigfooters are choosing to participate in a community that will celebrate their bs story. The better the story, the more brave a soul you are for sharing it. Nothing demonstrates this better than the rise of the "knowers" over the past few years. Far from being ridiculed as someone with such a story would (and should) be in other communities, the knower achieves instant celebrity 'footer status.

For people who are lonely, depressed, or marginalized, the instant respect, admiration, and simple attention that "knowers" get at the BFF must be an intoxicating rush, indeed.

I'll never understand the "why would someone share their story" schtick. Why wouldn't someone share a bigfoot story?! The stories are cool, people love bigfoot, and the "witness" gains instant celebrity. Heck, these days you can even get on TV for sharing your bigfoot story (so make it a good one!).
I'm not talking about making a report to your friendly neighborhood BFRO or SRA site, I'm talking about telling your poker buddies or the members of your church. If you actually think that folks don't get ridiculed, then try it yourself. Do your own experiment and see what it's like. Create a new user on this site and post something and see how it's accepted.
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Old 9th April 2014, 09:00 AM   #278
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^^ This site is not the same thing as your poker buddies or the members of your church. Not a very apt comparison.

I think the rewards for lying about bigfoot don't come from your poker buddies or your church members. They come from the bigfoot community. And the liars know this. Finding Bigfoot ( as alluded to by Shrike) shows us that there is not really a shortage of folks looking to talk lay claim to a bigfoot sighting. This is done weekly on national tv and in front of a town hall full of community members. Some of whom must surely be church members or maybe even poker buddies.

No, I do not buy the noble martyrdom of the poor bigfoot witness who just needs to unburden the soul to the ridicule of the world. That is BS.
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Old 9th April 2014, 09:01 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by Northern Lights View Post
I'm not talking about making a report to your friendly neighborhood BFRO or SRA site, I'm talking about telling your poker buddies or the members of your church. If you actually think that folks don't get ridiculed, then try it yourself. Do your own experiment and see what it's like. Create a new user on this site and post something and see how it's accepted.
The obvious solution is to not tell those unamenable to bigfoot.

Seriously, people tell all kinds of stories every day that earn them some teasing or outright ridicule. Some of these folks even believe these stories.

Ask anyone who's interned at a TV or radio call desk. Reports of everything from aliens to Elvis from individuals who leave their names and numbers expecting a call back. Negative attention is better than no attention it seems. This can hardly be news, can it?

Honestly NL, are bigfoot enthusiasts this oblivious to common human behavior traits?

ETA: As dmaker noted above, the JREF, or skeptics in general ain't a bigfoot reporter's target market anyway.

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Old 9th April 2014, 09:06 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
^^ This site is not the same thing as your poker buddies or the members of your church. Not a very apt comparison.

I think the rewards for lying about bigfoot don't come from your poker buddies or your church members. They come from the bigfoot community. And the liars know this. Finding Bigfoot ( as alluded to by Shrike) shows us that there is not really a shortage of folks looking to talk lay claim to a bigfoot sighting. This is done weekly on national tv and in front of a town hall full of community members. Some of whom must surely be church members or maybe even poker buddies.

No, I do not buy the noble martyrdom of the poor bigfoot witness who just needs to unburden the soul to the ridicule of the world. That is BS.
Not to mention that country folk like to put stuff over on city slickers. Looking at the bigfoot phenomenon, you can see how well the model worked. So well the country folk are buying it as too.
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