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Tags bigfoot , bill munns , Patterson-Gimlin film

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Old 12th January 2013, 06:02 AM   #241
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Because Patterson made the suit to resemble his version of a female bigfoot, with large fake boobs.
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Last edited by GT/CS; 12th January 2013 at 06:17 AM.
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Old 12th January 2013, 06:34 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by GT/CS View Post
What's your point regarding the post you referenced?
Bill Munns has posted an infographic showing him testing a suit to "Heironimous' Specifications" (apparently, without actually talking to the man, who is still alive) complete with actual hip waders, and an actual football helmet.

No one saw this coming, as I attempted to illustrate by quoting your post.
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Old 12th January 2013, 12:56 PM   #243
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Link ~ It should come up for everyone.


http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?/...20#entry683027
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Old 14th January 2013, 01:18 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by STRONG LIKE BEAR View Post
Bill Munns has posted an infographic showing him testing a suit to "Heironimous' Specifications" (apparently, without actually talking to the man, who is still alive) complete with actual hip waders, and an actual football helmet.

No one saw this coming, as I attempted to illustrate by quoting your post.
Like the Munn's report, what's the point? His findings will ensure that Patty was not a guy in a suit.
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Old 14th January 2013, 10:16 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by Slocie's View Post
Link ~ It should come up for everyone.


http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?/...20#entry683027
That looks like a fun project for Bill. It's also amusing to see him feign ineptitude for the sake of the test.

Bob Heironimus' exact words to Greg Long were, "I think the head was made out of a, it seemed to me... like an old-time football helmet." He doesn't know for a fact it was made from a football helmet, he only compares it to a football helmet. So Munns makes a head out of an apparently unmodified leather football helmet.

Similarly, Heironimus compares the legs to rubber boots. "All I can say is it felt like rubber boots." Heironimus even tells Long that he is unsure that the suit was actually made from rubber boots. Munns literally uses rubber hip waders.

And the end result? A suit that's visibly inferior to both Patty and to other suits Munns has built. He doesn't attempt to fix obvious problems like loose cloth in unpadded areas and a curiously unflexible piece jutting out at the back of the head. Why has he added trapezius muscles to his head mask?

In an honest test, Munns would build a suit where the head had a semi-rigid infrastructure that a layman might compare to a football helmet, and legs that might compare to hip waders.

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Old 14th January 2013, 11:35 AM   #246
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It's a pretty big tell. There's no other way around it, in my opinion, he is being dishonest. I think Tontar put it nicely, as well :

Originally Posted by Tontar Page 107
This is a crucial test of legitimacy. Here's another example. I am a cop trying to recreate an accident scenario. The driver who swerved off the road into a ditch claimed it was raining like cats and dogs. So I send my deputy to the local humane society and have him gather up all the death row animals, hire a crane lift, and as our test vehicle drives under, we rain down all those cats and dogs onto the car. Yep, that's using the witnesses words, he said cats and dogs, that's what we used for our accident recreation. That's what we claim is the scientific method.
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Old 14th January 2013, 12:06 PM   #247
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Bill Munns should be credited for gaining access to, and scanning/archiving the PGF copies that have been made available for researchers. I do not agree with many of his conclusions about the film, but I cannot deny that without the large resolution scans we would still be seeing the PGF in youtube clarity.

He's received funding to perform certain tests and to evaluate select features about the film subject and the film location. Let's see what he does with that, and what new conclusions are made because of it. Personally, I find some of the tests to be entertaining, but not much else. Bill is good at putting together a presentation that he can show people. The content of the Munns report doesn't seem to be investigating some of the key issues with the films authenticity. Instead, it appears to be more of a promotion of anything that could be used to describe the film subject as a "living creature" (as if guys in suits are not living!) In other words, I see little attempt at proving this to be a hoax, and much more effort put into the promotion of the PGF. Bill certainly has access to Gimlin, and Heironimus, and anyone else involved in the bigfoot arena. Sure seems like interviews "might" be a good idea. How about at the same time? A talk show type interview with critical thinking and asking the hard questions of each side. I'm sure the bigfooters would tune in to see Gimlin and Heironimus in the same room talking about the film. Someone needs to do that interview while both are still alive. (save Gimlin would agree to, most likely he would not) I know you arent much interested in the "back story" but the fact that these living legends are still here and that you have to date never sought an interview seems a little odd.

If you're sticking to the "film only" approach, you should start to address the important issues such as subject height, foot as a ruler, and be ready to admit that there is no way to pin point pattersons movements other than math after the fact using the knowns to calculate the distances. You should be able to use some of those knowns (foot/cast size, other objects distances such as tree to tree measurements to compare with other things on site) to determine how far patterson is away from the film subject in each frame after you can determine the subjects scale.

You've already made animations that were supposedly approximating those positions (camera positions, and film subject positions on the film site)

I'm curious if you have addressed, or are going to address the beard issue on Patterson, the foot as a ruler, and I've already seen you address the footprints. (in a less than honest fashion) Some folks will eat up whatever you toss out there. In the end, the truth will come out. Trying to fool people about an old film, while it may be entertaining and profitable in some ways, it's still dishonest. If you want to be known as that dude, I'm ok with it. The true story might be worth more intellectually, and educationally to everyone interested in the subject. IMHO, you should be seeking that to put in your report. (more of a "how they did it" approach with interviews)
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Last edited by River; 14th January 2013 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 14th January 2013, 12:32 PM   #248
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BTW, there will be problems trying to study those issues mentioned. Why? Because Patterson most likely made the footprints. (not the film subject) Another reason is, those footprints were most likely made further away from the camera position than the film subject was. (this is why McClarin walks a slightly different path than the PGF film subject)


That's why it's not all adding up Bill.
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Old 27th February 2013, 02:08 PM   #249
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Looks to me like the probability estimate is about to change, because of the height issue.

Until recently it has been apparent only to great minds like Bill and myself that PattyBob passed very close behind the tree TC-2. Now others are on board with that. So close did PattyBob pass, that McLarin, when filmed by Green months later, could not have been closer to the tree than PattyBob had been without running into the tree or passing in front of it. And, the camera that photographed McLarin was several feet (let's use four feet) behind Patterson's position.

Now, at TC-2, McLarin appears taller than PattyBob if one uses marks on the trees as references. And, from the above, it seems that, at a minimum, even if he followed PattyBob's path exactly, that apparent height difference would be increased by about 3% because PattyBob had to be at least 3% (4 ft/about 120ft) closer to Patterson's camera than McLarin was to Green's camera. Would irregular ground account for some of that? could be, but so far, neither old photos nor descriptions nor recent survey work supports the idea that there would have been a dramatic consistent changes in elevation on the ground behind TC-2 that would explain height differences. Of course, the two cameras/lens did not have identical optics, and it is likely that at least one will never be available, so there is going to be some uncertainty there. And I am informed that Green seems to have paced off his measurements, rather than using a tape.

I give props to Bill and Odinn for their progress on this matter.
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Old 27th February 2013, 03:44 PM   #250
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To add to Parn's post this is from Bill on the Bff.

The height measure of over 7' tall is based on a 15mm lens, and with the new comparisons of McClarin's footage with the PGF, a 15mm lens for Patterson is simply not possible, so a PGF height of over 7' is also not possible.

Way to go Bill!
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Old 13th May 2013, 05:30 PM   #251
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Munns wants to produce his own documentary film on the PGF called When Roger Met Patty. On the BFF he says that he must do it himself because none of the Cable TV producers want a pure fact program. They want fancy fluff instead. Bill gives only pure true fact facts.

Quote:
This will be a feature length documentary on the remarkable truth of the Patterson Gimlin Film, and the Bigfoot/Sasquatch phenomenon.
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Old 13th May 2013, 05:33 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Munns wants to produce his own documentary film on the PGF called When Roger Met Patty. On the BFF he says that he must do it himself because none of the Cable TV producers want a pure fact program. They want fancy fluff instead. Bill gives only pure true fact facts.

Is this going to be some When Harry Met Sally rip-off? I don't want to see a Sasquatch-in-the-restaurant scene. Just no.
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Old 13th May 2013, 06:04 PM   #253
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OK, I just read through Munn's plan for his documentary. Wow. I'm not sure what to say here. What are the chances of this ever coming to fruition? Is his plan the correct methodology for one who wants to film an independent documentary? I'm not in the film industry, but quality amateur films have been made before. If I understand correctly, Bill wants to raise $12,000 but I'm not sure if this is total budget or just what he needs to get started? Also, his plan has phases and I can't tell if the $12,000 goal is for the entire project or just for Phase 1. By the way, Phase 1 is not the actual filming. It is just the set-up of an administrative structure. This is what I'm asking about regarding the traditional way to go about such an undertaking.

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The Goal: To make a superlative documentary feature that would qualify for Academy Award consideration in the feature documentary category
Quote:
How do we break through to the general public and mainstream media with something of merit, something serious, scientific and powerful? Well, there’s always the old sure thing, bring in a body and put it on a slab for scientific dissection. But until that happens, what’s the second most powerful alternative? A documentary that breaks through the niche container and reaches the general public and mainstream media.
Quote:
Phase One is the organizational set-up of the project.This includes the set-up of the corporate production company, it’s accounting services, and it’s legal counsel
Quote:
Perksfor your contribution: Level 5 $1000 - All the above DVD Content, and Bill Munns will be presentation speaker at an event of the contributor's designation (travel costs paid by event).
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Old 13th May 2013, 09:03 PM   #254
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"Phase One is the organizational set-up of the project.This includes the set-up of the corporate production company, it’s accounting services, and it’s legal counsel."

While I'm still not sure how much 'con-man' is in Munns, partially because I don't think he's made a whole bunch of money from it yet, statements like the above are not from somebody who actually makes/produces such things. That's what a talker would say, not a doer. An actual doer (with or without any money) would already be knee deep into the process of creating the product. By all accounts, Munns man has barely a pot to pyss in and this film idea is but barely still just an idea, yet his first order of business in making such an Academy Award™ worthy documentary - SOMETHING THAT HE'S NEVER DONE BEFORE NOR HAS ANY OBVIOUS EXPERTISE DOING - is 'legal counsel' and 'accounting services'? Are you ******* kidding me? Maybe he should hire Goldman Sachs too for 'perceived asset management'?

ETA: It has just been reported Bill Munns has now realized that IF he's not a complete douche-bag, maybe he won't need as much 'legal counsel'. Good boy.
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Old 13th May 2013, 10:06 PM   #255
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Bill Munns Calculates Probability of Patterson/Gimlin film Being faked at 0.00005











and I should care because???










That's just what I expected.........
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Old 14th May 2013, 06:25 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by HarryHenderson View Post
. . . yet his first order of business in making such an Academy Award™ worthy documentary - SOMETHING THAT HE'S NEVER DONE BEFORE NOR HAS ANY OBVIOUS EXPERTISE DOING - is 'legal counsel' and 'accounting services'?
If you give me $12,000, I will hire legal counsel to provide the advice I need to take gold in the Nordic combined at the 2014 Winter Olympics.
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Old 14th May 2013, 01:47 PM   #257
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We were laughing because not long ago Bill said that a person would have to be a lunatic to film there at Bluff Creek. He recently posted more of the same on BFF...

Originally Posted by Bill Munns on BFF
The fack that Roger and Bob approached from the opposite side of the creek thtat Patty was on both explains their ability to approach unheard, and also defeats suspicions of hoax, because you need to communicate with your talent in a hoax filming and communication from one side of the crek to the other by voice is all but useless, and with a guy in a costume, the mask impairing his vision, visual signels also don't work.

The creek is a vital part of authenticating the reality of the encounter.
Love the spelling too.

Yeah, we know it's real because the subject is on the "other side" of the creek. A hoaxer would always keep his guy-in-the-suit on the same side of the creek. That's how hoaxers work and if you can crack their code like Bill has done then you can always know a hoax when you see one. That's why Bill can call all of these things he says FACTS.
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Old 14th May 2013, 02:15 PM   #258
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I calculate Munn's intent to bilk the next generation of credulous nuts for yet another round of underserved funding at > 99.99995.
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Old 16th May 2013, 09:31 AM   #259
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Bill should try to get the documentary into the Traverse City Film Festival.

Michigan is sad...

http://www.traversecityfilmfest.org/festival-basics/
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Old 16th May 2013, 09:32 AM   #260
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William Conrad is available for narration duties...

oh wait, never mind.
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Old 16th May 2013, 11:15 AM   #261
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So the final definitive and graphic proof that Bigfoot exists is going to be presented at Tribeca Film Festival instead of at an international scientific anthropology conference? That makes no sense at all.

Munns knows that Bigfoot doesn't exist. He's just a player.

Almost like a gipsy carpetbagger with a (small) megaphone. Ladies and Gentlemen... step right this way for the Proof of Bigfoot...

Pop goes the weasel.
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Old 16th May 2013, 11:30 AM   #262
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Of course, he knows throwing ACADEMY AWARD in the description will get Bigfooters more fired up, than going to a University of Michigan Anthropology presentation and presenting his findings to people like Dr. John Hawks. Of course, he is just looking at a film, and has no actual evidence, so that would never happen.
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Old 17th May 2013, 08:07 PM   #263
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What's really amazing is how little money it appears Bill Munns actually does have considering his 'big talker' mouth. He wants an Academy Award™, or at least says he does, no doubt to help "fund" such "film", yet apparently can't scrape up the 50 cents necessary to use the pay phone out in front of his house to call an attorney to find out he doesn't need to be worrying about attorneys...near as much as he needs to worry about why there's a payphone in front of his house.
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Old 29th May 2013, 01:15 PM   #264
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12% of the way there.

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/wh...how_todos=true
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Old 29th May 2013, 04:28 PM   #265
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I wonder why Munns says they need a body but getting a body is not likely to happen any time soon. (I'm not wondering too hard).

I'm thinking Munns and others, if he gets his way, will wish mainstream science kept looking the other way.
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Old 29th May 2013, 07:00 PM   #266
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I guess it's no secret that cryptozoology documentaries tend to lack the potential of becoming Acadamy Award winning, but maybe Bill can still pull it off. So far, I've been genuinely impressed with Bill's efforts. He's at a level of professionalism that's unheard of in Bigfootery.
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Old 29th May 2013, 08:47 PM   #267
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A pro would be unbiased and objective...

A pro would probably not invent a new lens to make things fit, for example...

A pro would probably not have built giganto as a biped, for example...
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 29th May 2013, 09:33 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
...A pro would probably not invent a new lens to make things fit, for example...
A pro would have invested in photogrammetry software by now in order to model the scene.

A pro would have blind tested the artist's modelling software he did use to see if it was capable of accurately modelling the scene.

A pro would not have ignored this being pointed out to them repeatedly in the last 3 years...
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Old 30th May 2013, 12:36 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
I guess it's no secret that cryptozoology documentaries tend to lack the potential of becoming Acadamy Award winning, but maybe Bill can still pull it off. So far, I've been genuinely impressed with Bill's efforts. He's at a level of professionalism that's unheard of in Bigfootery.
Although (or Since) we probably know the real reason you post this kind of stuff, I'll bite. Impressed with Bill's efforts in what exactly? I'm vague on where I missed being similarly impressed. And at a level of professionalism that's unheard of in Bigfootery? Professionalism in or at what exactly? Capitalizing on Bigfoot by perpetuating its genuine existence while having no actual belief in such? <paraphrasing the previous two posters> His pretending to be an adept technician of an esoteric discipline he took up practice in mere days before proclaiming discovery of an absurd cosmic truth arrived at through use of such discipline? That kind of "unheard of in Bigfootery" professionalism?
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Old 30th May 2013, 04:36 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
I guess it's no secret that cryptozoology documentaries tend to lack the potential of becoming Acadamy Award winning, but maybe Bill can still pull it off. So far, I've been genuinely impressed with Bill's efforts. He's at a level of professionalism that's unheard of in Bigfootery.
Maybe he can next calculate the odds of Barney being fake.

"No human in a suit can possibly replicate that bouncing gait!"
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Old 30th May 2013, 06:14 AM   #271
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^Has anyone done a red crayon-labeled analysis of Barney's "limb ratios" or whatever? I wonder if bigfooty analysis applied to a couple of blurry photos of Barney would reveal it impossible to be human in a suit.

As we know:

"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."
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Old 30th May 2013, 07:28 AM   #272
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Barney's arms are way too short for our purple friend to be a human in a suit. A suit can make a person's arms look longer (even though most BFFers ignore this fact) but there is no way to shorten them.
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Old 30th May 2013, 09:43 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
I guess it's no secret that cryptozoology documentaries tend to lack the potential of becoming Acadamy Award winning, but maybe Bill can still pull it off. So far, I've been genuinely impressed with Bill's efforts. He's at a level of professionalism that's unheard of in Bigfootery.
That says more about bigfootery than Munns professionalism.
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Old 30th May 2013, 09:45 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
A pro would have invested in photogrammetry software by now in order to model the scene.

A pro would have blind tested the artist's modelling software he did use to see if it was capable of accurately modelling the scene.

A pro would not have ignored this being pointed out to them repeatedly in the last 3 years...
A pro gets paid so Bill is a pro bigfooter.
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Old 30th May 2013, 10:59 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
I guess it's no secret that cryptozoology documentaries tend to lack the potential of becoming Acadamy Award winning, but maybe Bill can still pull it off. So far, I've been genuinely impressed with Bill's efforts. He's at a level of professionalism that's unheard of in Bigfootery.

I'm still trying to get an answer as to what exactly he has proven? That you can come up with multiple theories that get shot down, and continue to bolster every tidbit that could be milked for more money to study (like the breast study, pun intended ) Titties and bigfoot, its a definite winner. Genius.

So seriously though, Munns has proven very little but has tenaciously explored the copies and generation tree. I found him to be rather disingenuous concerning the footprints, and casting footage. If you want to outright ignore clear evidence, cool. Just don't expect me to respect your opinions afterwards. This isn't about finding a solution to the "mystery" of the PGF for Munns. His actions speak clearly as to what it's about for him.
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Old 30th May 2013, 11:07 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by River View Post
I'm still trying to get an answer as to what exactly he has proven? That you can come up with multiple theories that get shot down, and continue to bolster every tidbit that could be milked for more money to study (like the breast study, pun intended ) Titties and bigfoot, its a definite winner. Genius.

So seriously though, Munns has proven very little but has tenaciously explored the copies and generation tree. I found him to be rather disingenuous concerning the footprints, and casting footage. If you want to outright ignore clear evidence, cool. Just don't expect me to respect your opinions afterwards. This isn't about finding a solution to the "mystery" of the PGF for Munns. His actions speak clearly as to what it's about for him.
Scofftic.
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Old 30th May 2013, 01:09 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Scofftic.

Much like bigfoot, "scofftic" is also made up.

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Old 30th May 2013, 03:29 PM   #278
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Per diplomat & double naught spy KK, ole BM know's the PGF is as phony as a three dollar bill.
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Old 30th May 2013, 03:43 PM   #279
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Sure he does. That's why he stopped his analysis of the suit and switched to the lens. He figured it was easier to fake his through bogus lens assumptions and math.
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Old 30th May 2013, 05:35 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
A pro gets paid so Bill is a pro bigfooter.
Ah yes.
While being paid makes you a professional, it doesn't follow that being paid implies that you conduct yourself in a professional manner.
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