Trump's Coup d'état. - Page 5

AnonyMoose · 12th November 2020, 06:04 PM

With today's statement by the DHS, I wonder if the GOP will now start slowly jumping off SS Wackjob one by one? Do they lack the anal fortitude of following this thing through? Or is this the hill they've chosen to die on?

Stay tuned in tomorrow kiddies for another exciting episode of "As the Trumpland Turns"!

Same bat time. Same bat channel.

Skeptic Ginger · 12th November 2020, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

No, not "Yhis"!

SG said the Trump Cult was shrinking. Do you see any evidence of this? I don't.

I'm not claiming that the votes necessarily represent the Cult of Trump, but the fact he got 10 million votes more this time than last time does NOT suggest to me that his Cult is shrinking.

Oh, but they think Biden is worse? Seriously, who is thinking this? How deluded would you have to be to think that not only is Biden worse than Trump, but after 4 years of a Trump administration, you come to that conclusion? Not only do they think Biden is so bad they would rather have Trump but 10 million more people think that than they thought about Hillary Clinton?

No, if you think the Cult is shrinking, then show your evidence. Because it looks more like a case of invasion of the bodysnatchers. People who used to be against Trump and had every reason to be against Trump are now in favour of him... Ted Cruz, despite having his wife mocked by Trump is now one of his hatchet men. Lindsey Graham, despite what he said about him at the beginning of the last administration? The Trump train convoys? He even has his own Cult of Personality network in OAN.

How is this Cult shrinking?

If you define the cult as the hard core Trump minions who will always believe the deep state stole the election, that base isn't shrinking.

But everyone who voted for and/or really really likes Trump and believes his con-job are not hard core Trump minions. Those are the people who are slowly but surely abandoning Trump and accepting Biden won the election.

eerok · 12th November 2020, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I don't believe that. Trump doesn't do anything for anyone else. Everything he does is for himself.

Yes. I think he's filling his pockets from fund-raising... plus being a petty jackass, of course.

angrysoba · 12th November 2020, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Fortunately, Trump's base is shrinking, not growing.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

If you define the cult as the hard core Trump minions who will always believe the deep state stole the election, that base isn't shrinking.

But everyone who voted for and/or really really likes Trump and believes his con-job are not hard core Trump minions. Those are the people who are slowly but surely abandoning Trump and accepting Biden won the election.

Thank you. I’ll take that as a retraction.

As for the rest. I need to see some evidence of them slowly but surely accepting the Biden win.

dirtywick · 12th November 2020, 06:12 PM

To me it’s looking like Trump took the steps he could to try and retain power as unlikely as it was, and the GOP sat on the fence with a wait and see approach. But as time goes on it’s looking like he is unable to do so, and they’re starting to come out publicly.

Skeptic Ginger · 12th November 2020, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

The claim that the Cult is shrinking is not mine. It is SG’s! How does she support her claim? That’s where the onus is!

She even points to the fact that 60% of Republicans don’t accept the result! That’s ridiculously high, and likely moving in the wrong direction. I am not going to accept Emily’s Cat’s bromides either.

According to Trump that was 95%, so 60% of Republicans is way down.

d4m10n · 12th November 2020, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

This: "Pennsylvania rank and file lawmakers demand legislative audit before certifying election results" is not the same as, or even close to the assertion these legislators are planning to overturn the voters in their state and send their own electors to give PA to Trump.

If the legislative audit drags out past the various deadlines, who decides whether PA sends electors?

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Also, I can't find anything in that article that alleges that they're quoting from someone within Trump's team. The quotes are predominantly coming from "a lawyer" who "knows how this works". And even those quotes are hypotheticals from that lawyer.

I believe the article said the lawyer was "familiar with the process" of how the Trump campaign could prevent state certifications from taking place. You may well be right, though, they don't come out and say where their background source is working right now. (I'm guessing Jones Day has heard of NDAs.)

angrysoba · 12th November 2020, 06:15 PM

And also notice that we are back to talking about the numbers of people who voted for him after initially arguing that those should not be seen as his supporters and yet those were beyond 72 million people. Four or five million more than ever voted for Obama in an election. Those numbers are huge! To argue that a mere 60% of them or even a mere 40% or a mere 30% of them refuse to accept the result, we are talking massive numbers and you can bet that the more times they repeat the mantra that the election was stolen the more you can expect that to grow.

Anyway you cut it, the complacency of some around here is altogether the wrong way to think about this.

Skeptic Ginger · 12th November 2020, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

?????

State governors? the Senate? The Supreme Court? The President? How many divisions does the President have?

There's no evidence the SCOTUS is going to overturn the election and install Trump.

The others do not have the power to support a coup.

varwoche · 12th November 2020, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

If the legislative audit drags out past the various deadlines, who decides whether PA sends electors?

SCOTUS ultimately.

angrysoba · 12th November 2020, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

According to Trump that was 95%, so 60% of Republicans is way down.

“according to Trump”? FFS!

Skeptic Ginger · 12th November 2020, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

It’s not “baby steps”. That’s not Trump coming round to accepting his defeat. That is his aide saying “there’s nothing to see here!”

If you want to see Trump’s baby steps then check out his Twitter feed!

From what I see, Trump is coming around from Denial to Anger to Bargaining and toward Acceptance. You will never see that in Trump's own words, not in public anyway.

And he's likely to fluctuate a bit between denial/anger and (reluctant) acceptance.

angrysoba · 12th November 2020, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

From what I see, Trump is coming around from Denial to Anger to Bargaining and toward Acceptance. You will never see that in Trump's own words, not in public anyway.

And he's likely to fluctuate a bit between denial/anger and (reluctant) acceptance.

Why do you trust the word of his aide? How do we know the aide was faithfully representing his words?

And what makes you think that people actually always go through the stages of denial in predictable and reliable stages anyway?

Skeptic Ginger · 12th November 2020, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Thank you. I’ll take that as a retraction.

As for the rest. I need to see some evidence of them slowly but surely accepting the Biden win.

You want a retraction because we are using a different definition of hard core and base?

Whatever.

d4m10n · 12th November 2020, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by varwoche

SCOTUS ultimately.

I think the Republican legislators get to have a say first.

Skeptic Ginger · 12th November 2020, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

If the legislative audit drags out past the various deadlines, who decides whether PA sends electors?

Is that the plan? Is there any evidence that is the plan?

Originally Posted by d4m10n

I believe the article said the lawyer was "familiar with the process" of how the Trump campaign could prevent state certifications from taking place. You may well be right, though, they don't come out and say where their background source is working right now. (I'm guessing Jones Day has heard of NDAs.)

The process aka hypothetically this is one way they might carry out this hypothetical plan.

Skeptic Ginger · 12th November 2020, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

“according to Trump”? FFS!

So 60% of Republicans are in Trumps base and that's always been the number?

Really?

angrysoba · 12th November 2020, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

So 60% of Republicans are in Trumps base and that's always been the number?

Really?

I never said that. That’s desperate.

I said I see no evidence his base is shrinking. You were the one arguing otherwise.

Now you are arguing that Trump is slowly accepting his loss. I see no evidence of that either.

d4m10n · 12th November 2020, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Is that the plan? Is there any evidence that is the plan?

I don't expect the GOP will tell us the plan to steal the election until they start putting it through.

Roger Ramjets · 12th November 2020, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

And also notice that we are back to talking about the numbers of people who voted for him after initially arguing that those should not be seen as his supporters and yet those were beyond 72 million people. Four or five million more than ever voted for Obama in an election. Those numbers are huge!

You don't understand. Most of them aren't Trump supporters. If he didn't have an 'R' next to his name they wouldn't even know who he was.

Quote:

To argue that a mere 60% of them or even a mere 40% or a mere 30% of them refuse to accept the result, we are talking massive numbers and you can bet that the more times they repeat the mantra that the election was stolen the more you can expect that to grow.

No, they will only grow until the futility of their stance becomes obvious, then the majority will give it up.

Quote:

Anyway you cut it, the complacency of some around here is altogether the wrong way to think about this.

Not sure what you mean, but republicans taking a while to accept the reality of a Biden presidency is not something we have to worry about. A few nutjobs who were always around? Perhaps. Trump and his minions? Definitely. But not the majority of republicans.

Roger Ramjets · 12th November 2020, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

I don't expect the GOP will tell us the plan to steal the election until they start putting it through.

I hope it's a good plan, because I am itching to put a bullet through someone. Can't have civil war without a good reason!

The Atheist · 12th November 2020, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

No, you're extrapolating here. People voting for Trump to be president doesn't in any fashion imply that those people would support him illegally hanging on to the position in opposition to a legitimate election.

And yet his approval rating has improved since the election.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...roval-ratings/

If there were any truth to your suggestion, clearly his ratings would have tanked, and we see the exact opposite.

They don't see it as illegal, either.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

You'll figure it out.

Ah, so much easier than presenting evidence.

You claim Trump's support is shrinking, using the exact same amount of evidence behind Trump's lawsuits - zero.

If you don't wish to just retract your claim, present evidence that shows there's any shrinkage to his support.

Remember, this is a bloke who has openly and proudly claimed to pay as little tax as possible, admitted to sexual assault, abused a Gold Star family and enabled Proud Boys and racists, among a huge litany of crimes again mankind. Why do you think these people who have stuck with him all the way will suddenly desert him?

They believe what he's saying about the election being stolen and will continue to support him, and going by the early poll results, possibly even more than they did last month.

Trebuchet · 12th November 2020, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

Ending democracy would totally trigger the snowflake libs

Democracy is evil. So bad, in fact, that the name the Democrat Party after it!

deadrose · 12th November 2020, 07:06 PM

Apparently only 50% of each donation to his vote-counting fund goes towards the actual vote-counting fund. The rest, IIRC, goes to retiring his election debts. Which is probably exactly why he's doing all this. He just wants to vacuum up all the money he can before he slinks off.

slyjoe · 12th November 2020, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

I think the Republican legislators get to have a say first.

Not really. There is no "legislative audit" in the election rules. That is something they made up. The only way to stop the certification process is via an injunction from a court.

pgwenthold · 12th November 2020, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by deadrose

Apparently only 50% of each donation to his vote-counting fund goes towards the actual vote-counting fund.

That only applies to those donations over $8000. Under that amount, none of it goes his vote-counting fund.

eerok · 12th November 2020, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by deadrose

Apparently only 50% of each donation to his vote-counting fund goes towards the actual vote-counting fund. The rest, IIRC, goes to retiring his election debts. Which is probably exactly why he's doing all this. He just wants to vacuum up all the money he can before he slinks off.

The way I read it, it was 60% for his campaign debts and 40% for his 2024 campaign. None of the lawsuits are actually being filed by him, so they'd be paid by the RNC and others. I don't think he's paying for any recounts, either. Looks like a pure cash grab. He'll pocket whatever he can.

angrysoba · 12th November 2020, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

Not sure what you mean, but republicans taking a while to accept the reality of a Biden presidency is not something we have to worry about. A few nutjobs who were always around? Perhaps. Trump and his minions? Definitely. But not the majority of republicans.

Yeah, why should we not trust the Republicans to do the right thing?

Well, apart from every reason they have given for not trusting them since, say, the tail-end of the Obama administration.

angrysoba · 12th November 2020, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

Encouraging news from WH correspondent Peter Alexander:
https://twitter.com/PeterAlexander/s...55316483485701

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...543ec6a8cb.jpg

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Baby steps.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

From what I see, Trump is coming around from Denial to Anger to Bargaining and toward Acceptance. You will never see that in Trump's own words, not in public anyway.

And he's likely to fluctuate a bit between denial/anger and (reluctant) acceptance.

Here's Trump "accepting" reluctantly, I suppose:

Quote:

“REPORT: DOMINION DELETED 2.7 MILLION TRUMP VOTES NATIONWIDE. DATA ANALYSIS FINDS 221,000 PENNSYLVANIA VOTES SWITCHED FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP TO BIDEN. 941,000 TRUMP VOTES DELETED. STATES USING DOMINION VOTING SYSTEMS SWITCHED 435,000 VOTES FROM TRUMP TO BIDEN.”

dudalb · 12th November 2020, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

And also notice that we are back to talking about the numbers of people who voted for him after initially arguing that those should not be seen as his supporters and yet those were beyond 72 million people. Four or five million more than ever voted for Obama in an election. Those numbers are huge! To argue that a mere 60% of them or even a mere 40% or a mere 30% of them refuse to accept the result, we are talking massive numbers and you can bet that the more times they repeat the mantra that the election was stolen the more you can expect that to grow.

Anyway you cut it, the complacency of some around here is altogether the wrong way to think about this.

Did'nt you just criticise me for biing an alarmaist?

angrysoba · 12th November 2020, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Did'nt you just criticise me for biing an alarmaist?

I criticized you for the get your guns and ammo and get ready for the Civil War drumbeat that you have been beating for four years. It's been a constant mantra from you, has it not?

What I am saying, is that the Republicans are not showing much sign of accepting the result of the election, and people need to be aware of that.

Do you disagree with either of those points?

Minoosh · 12th November 2020, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Mader Levap

To be honest, it is hard to determine why he got more votes. Did amount of deplorables among republicans grew? Or maybe they were just more inclined to vote in 2020?

How do you distinguish these two cases? Note some mix of both is also possible.

Maybe in 2016 they didn't realize you have to be registered in order to vote.

Skeptic Ginger · 12th November 2020, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

I don't expect the GOP will tell us the plan to steal the election until they start putting it through.

Which makes it hypothetical!

Skeptic Ginger · 12th November 2020, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Here's Trump "accepting" reluctantly, I suppose:

Did you miss where I said you won't ever see him concede or give up in what he says (including Tweets)?

dudalb · 12th November 2020, 09:19 PM

Arizona just called for Biden.

dudalb · 12th November 2020, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

I criticized you for the get your guns and ammo and get ready for the Civil War drumbeat that you have been beating for four years. It's been a constant mantra from you, has it not?

What I am saying, is that the Republicans are not showing much sign of accepting the result of the election, and people need to be aware of that.

Do you disagree with either of those points?

Question is how much of that is just posturing to convince Trump to campaign in Georiga to win the runoffs in Janueay.

angrysoba · 12th November 2020, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Did you miss where I said you won't ever see him concede or give up in what he says (including Tweets)?

Exactly, so now we can stop believing that tweet quoting the aide that Trump is "very aware there is not a path to victory,", instead of taking it at face value and praising him for his baby steps.

Originally Posted by dudalb

Question is how much of that is just posturing to convince Trump to campaign in Georiga to win the runoffs in Janueay.

I have no idea. And from which reliable source did you extract this theory?

Skeptic Ginger · 12th November 2020, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Exactly, so now we can stop believing that tweet quoting the aide that Trump is "very aware there is not a path to victory,", instead of taking it at face value and praising him for his baby steps. ...

Right because everyone who Tweets is a whacked out as Trump.

angrysoba · 12th November 2020, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Right because everyone who Tweets is a whacked out as Trump.

Huh??? What are you talking about?

You are using the Tweets from a journalist quoting an aide as evidence that Trump is taking baby steps to accepting a loss.

My point is that this is not evidence!!!

carlosy · 13th November 2020, 12:36 AM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Democracy is evil. So bad, in fact, that the name the Democrat Party after it!

It's all hidden in there:

Democrats

Democracy

12th November 2020, 06:04 PM	#161
AnonyMoose Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2018 Location: Land of the Frozen Chosen Posts: 1,002	With today's statement by the DHS, I wonder if the GOP will now start slowly jumping off SS Wackjob one by one? Do they lack the anal fortitude of following this thing through? Or is this the hill they've chosen to die on? Stay tuned in tomorrow kiddies for another exciting episode of "As the Trumpland Turns"! Same bat time. Same bat channel.
	__________________ "Some mornings it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps." ~ Emo Phillips

12th November 2020, 06:09 PM	#163
eerok Quixoticist Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: ON Canada Posts: 3,566	Originally Posted by Stacyhs I don't believe that. Trump doesn't do anything for anyone else. Everything he does is for himself. Yes. I think he's filling his pockets from fund-raising... plus being a petty jackass, of course.
	__________________ "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

12th November 2020, 06:10 PM	#164
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 29,304	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Fortunately, Trump's base is shrinking, not growing. Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger If you define the cult as the hard core Trump minions who will always believe the deep state stole the election, that base isn't shrinking. But everyone who voted for and/or really really likes Trump and believes his con-job are not hard core Trump minions. Those are the people who are slowly but surely abandoning Trump and accepting Biden won the election. Thank you. I’ll take that as a retraction. As for the rest. I need to see some evidence of them slowly but surely accepting the Biden win.
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

12th November 2020, 06:12 PM	#165
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,089	To me it’s looking like Trump took the steps he could to try and retain power as unlikely as it was, and the GOP sat on the fence with a wait and see approach. But as time goes on it’s looking like he is unable to do so, and they’re starting to come out publicly.
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,089

12th November 2020, 06:14 PM	#167
d4m10n Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 6,331	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger This: "Pennsylvania rank and file lawmakers demand legislative audit before certifying election results" is not the same as, or even close to the assertion these legislators are planning to overturn the voters in their state and send their own electors to give PA to Trump. If the legislative audit drags out past the various deadlines, who decides whether PA sends electors? Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Also, I can't find anything in that article that alleges that they're quoting from someone within Trump's team. The quotes are predominantly coming from "a lawyer" who "knows how this works". And even those quotes are hypotheticals from that lawyer. I believe the article said the lawyer was "familiar with the process" of how the Trump campaign could prevent state certifications from taking place. You may well be right, though, they don't come out and say where their background source is working right now. (I'm guessing Jones Day has heard of NDAs.)
	__________________ "Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin Last edited by d4m10n; 12th November 2020 at 06:17 PM.

12th November 2020, 06:08 PM	#162
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,774	Originally Posted by angrysoba No, not "Yhis"! SG said the Trump Cult was shrinking. Do you see any evidence of this? I don't. I'm not claiming that the votes necessarily represent the Cult of Trump, but the fact he got 10 million votes more this time than last time does NOT suggest to me that his Cult is shrinking. Oh, but they think Biden is worse? Seriously, who is thinking this? How deluded would you have to be to think that not only is Biden worse than Trump, but after 4 years of a Trump administration, you come to that conclusion? Not only do they think Biden is so bad they would rather have Trump but 10 million more people think that than they thought about Hillary Clinton? No, if you think the Cult is shrinking, then show your evidence. Because it looks more like a case of invasion of the bodysnatchers. People who used to be against Trump and had every reason to be against Trump are now in favour of him... Ted Cruz, despite having his wife mocked by Trump is now one of his hatchet men. Lindsey Graham, despite what he said about him at the beginning of the last administration? The Trump train convoys? He even has his own Cult of Personality network in OAN. How is this Cult shrinking? If you define the cult as the hard core Trump minions who will always believe the deep state stole the election, that base isn't shrinking. But everyone who voted for and/or really really likes Trump and believes his con-job are not hard core Trump minions. Those are the people who are slowly but surely abandoning Trump and accepting Biden won the election.

12th November 2020, 06:13 PM	#166
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,774	Originally Posted by angrysoba The claim that the Cult is shrinking is not mine. It is SG’s! How does she support her claim? That’s where the onus is! She even points to the fact that 60% of Republicans don’t accept the result! That’s ridiculously high, and likely moving in the wrong direction. I am not going to accept Emily’s Cat’s bromides either. According to Trump that was 95%, so 60% of Republicans is way down.

12th November 2020, 06:15 PM	#168
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 29,304	And also notice that we are back to talking about the numbers of people who voted for him after initially arguing that those should not be seen as his supporters and yet those were beyond 72 million people. Four or five million more than ever voted for Obama in an election. Those numbers are huge! To argue that a mere 60% of them or even a mere 40% or a mere 30% of them refuse to accept the result, we are talking massive numbers and you can bet that the more times they repeat the mantra that the election was stolen the more you can expect that to grow. Anyway you cut it, the complacency of some around here is altogether the wrong way to think about this.
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

12th November 2020, 06:15 PM	#169
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,774	Originally Posted by angrysoba ????? State governors? the Senate? The Supreme Court? The President? How many divisions does the President have? There's no evidence the SCOTUS is going to overturn the election and install Trump. The others do not have the power to support a coup.

12th November 2020, 06:15 PM	#170
varwoche Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 15,402	Originally Posted by d4m10n If the legislative audit drags out past the various deadlines, who decides whether PA sends electors? SCOTUS ultimately.
	__________________ To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot. My authority is total - Trump

12th November 2020, 06:16 PM	#171
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 29,304	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger According to Trump that was 95%, so 60% of Republicans is way down. “according to Trump”? FFS!
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

12th November 2020, 06:18 PM	#172
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,774	Originally Posted by angrysoba It’s not “baby steps”. That’s not Trump coming round to accepting his defeat. That is his aide saying “there’s nothing to see here!” If you want to see Trump’s baby steps then check out his Twitter feed! From what I see, Trump is coming around from Denial to Anger to Bargaining and toward Acceptance. You will never see that in Trump's own words, not in public anyway. And he's likely to fluctuate a bit between denial/anger and (reluctant) acceptance.

12th November 2020, 06:20 PM	#173
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 29,304	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger From what I see, Trump is coming around from Denial to Anger to Bargaining and toward Acceptance. You will never see that in Trump's own words, not in public anyway. And he's likely to fluctuate a bit between denial/anger and (reluctant) acceptance. Why do you trust the word of his aide? How do we know the aide was faithfully representing his words? And what makes you think that people actually always go through the stages of denial in predictable and reliable stages anyway?
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

12th November 2020, 06:20 PM	#174
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,774	Originally Posted by angrysoba Thank you. I’ll take that as a retraction. As for the rest. I need to see some evidence of them slowly but surely accepting the Biden win. You want a retraction because we are using a different definition of hard core and base? Whatever.

12th November 2020, 06:21 PM	#175
d4m10n Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 6,331	Originally Posted by varwoche SCOTUS ultimately. I think the Republican legislators get to have a say first.
	__________________ "Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin

12th November 2020, 06:23 PM	#176
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,774	Originally Posted by d4m10n If the legislative audit drags out past the various deadlines, who decides whether PA sends electors? Is that the plan? Is there any evidence that is the plan? Originally Posted by d4m10n I believe the article said the lawyer was "familiar with the process" of how the Trump campaign could prevent state certifications from taking place. You may well be right, though, they don't come out and say where their background source is working right now. (I'm guessing Jones Day has heard of NDAs.) The process aka hypothetically this is one way they might carry out this hypothetical plan.

12th November 2020, 06:25 PM	#177
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,774	Originally Posted by angrysoba “according to Trump”? FFS! So 60% of Republicans are in Trumps base and that's always been the number? Really?

12th November 2020, 06:34 PM	#178
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 29,304	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger So 60% of Republicans are in Trumps base and that's always been the number? Really? I never said that. That’s desperate. I said I see no evidence his base is shrinking. You were the one arguing otherwise. Now you are arguing that Trump is slowly accepting his loss. I see no evidence of that either.
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

12th November 2020, 06:36 PM	#179
d4m10n Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 6,331	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Is that the plan? Is there any evidence that is the plan? I don't expect the GOP will tell us the plan to steal the election until they start putting it through.
	__________________ "Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin

12th November 2020, 06:43 PM	#180
Roger Ramjets Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,328	Originally Posted by angrysoba And also notice that we are back to talking about the numbers of people who voted for him after initially arguing that those should not be seen as his supporters and yet those were beyond 72 million people. Four or five million more than ever voted for Obama in an election. Those numbers are huge! You don't understand. Most of them aren't Trump supporters. If he didn't have an 'R' next to his name they wouldn't even know who he was. Quote: To argue that a mere 60% of them or even a mere 40% or a mere 30% of them refuse to accept the result, we are talking massive numbers and you can bet that the more times they repeat the mantra that the election was stolen the more you can expect that to grow. No, they will only grow until the futility of their stance becomes obvious, then the majority will give it up. Quote: Anyway you cut it, the complacency of some around here is altogether the wrong way to think about this. Not sure what you mean, but republicans taking a while to accept the reality of a Biden presidency is not something we have to worry about. A few nutjobs who were always around? Perhaps. Trump and his minions? Definitely. But not the majority of republicans.
	__________________ We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.

12th November 2020, 06:47 PM	#181
Roger Ramjets Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,328	Originally Posted by d4m10n I don't expect the GOP will tell us the plan to steal the election until they start putting it through. I hope it's a good plan, because I am itching to put a bullet through someone. Can't have civil war without a good reason!
	__________________ We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.

12th November 2020, 06:58 PM	#182
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 28,234	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat No, you're extrapolating here. People voting for Trump to be president doesn't in any fashion imply that those people would support him illegally hanging on to the position in opposition to a legitimate election. And yet his approval rating has improved since the election. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...roval-ratings/ If there were any truth to your suggestion, clearly his ratings would have tanked, and we see the exact opposite. They don't see it as illegal, either. Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger You'll figure it out. Ah, so much easier than presenting evidence. You claim Trump's support is shrinking, using the exact same amount of evidence behind Trump's lawsuits - zero. If you don't wish to just retract your claim, present evidence that shows there's any shrinkage to his support. Remember, this is a bloke who has openly and proudly claimed to pay as little tax as possible, admitted to sexual assault, abused a Gold Star family and enabled Proud Boys and racists, among a huge litany of crimes again mankind. Why do you think these people who have stuck with him all the way will suddenly desert him? They believe what he's saying about the election being stolen and will continue to support him, and going by the early poll results, possibly even more than they did last month.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

12th November 2020, 06:59 PM	#183
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 30,983	Originally Posted by portlandatheist Ending democracy would totally trigger the snowflake libs Democracy is evil. So bad, in fact, that the name the Democrat Party after it!
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

12th November 2020, 07:06 PM	#184
deadrose Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: the wet side of the mountains Posts: 3,556	Apparently only 50% of each donation to his vote-counting fund goes towards the actual vote-counting fund. The rest, IIRC, goes to retiring his election debts. Which is probably exactly why he's doing all this. He just wants to vacuum up all the money he can before he slinks off.

12th November 2020, 07:14 PM	#185
slyjoe Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Near Harmonica Virgins, AZ Posts: 2,556	Originally Posted by d4m10n I think the Republican legislators get to have a say first. Not really. There is no "legislative audit" in the election rules. That is something they made up. The only way to stop the certification process is via an injunction from a court.
	__________________ "You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade

12th November 2020, 07:14 PM	#186
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 20,129	Originally Posted by deadrose Apparently only 50% of each donation to his vote-counting fund goes towards the actual vote-counting fund. That only applies to those donations over $8000. Under that amount, none of it goes his vote-counting fund.
	__________________ "As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets

12th November 2020, 07:17 PM	#187
eerok Quixoticist Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: ON Canada Posts: 3,566	Originally Posted by deadrose Apparently only 50% of each donation to his vote-counting fund goes towards the actual vote-counting fund. The rest, IIRC, goes to retiring his election debts. Which is probably exactly why he's doing all this. He just wants to vacuum up all the money he can before he slinks off. The way I read it, it was 60% for his campaign debts and 40% for his 2024 campaign. None of the lawsuits are actually being filed by him, so they'd be paid by the RNC and others. I don't think he's paying for any recounts, either. Looks like a pure cash grab. He'll pocket whatever he can.
	__________________ "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

12th November 2020, 07:40 PM	#188
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 29,304	Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets Not sure what you mean, but republicans taking a while to accept the reality of a Biden presidency is not something we have to worry about. A few nutjobs who were always around? Perhaps. Trump and his minions? Definitely. But not the majority of republicans. Yeah, why should we not trust the Republicans to do the right thing? Well, apart from every reason they have given for not trusting them since, say, the tail-end of the Obama administration.
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

12th November 2020, 07:49 PM	#189
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 29,304	Originally Posted by d4m10n Encouraging news from WH correspondent Peter Alexander: https://twitter.com/PeterAlexander/s...55316483485701 https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...543ec6a8cb.jpg Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Baby steps. Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger From what I see, Trump is coming around from Denial to Anger to Bargaining and toward Acceptance. You will never see that in Trump's own words, not in public anyway. And he's likely to fluctuate a bit between denial/anger and (reluctant) acceptance. Here's Trump "accepting" reluctantly, I suppose: Quote: “REPORT: DOMINION DELETED 2.7 MILLION TRUMP VOTES NATIONWIDE. DATA ANALYSIS FINDS 221,000 PENNSYLVANIA VOTES SWITCHED FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP TO BIDEN. 941,000 TRUMP VOTES DELETED. STATES USING DOMINION VOTING SYSTEMS SWITCHED 435,000 VOTES FROM TRUMP TO BIDEN.”
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

12th November 2020, 07:55 PM	#190
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,310	Originally Posted by angrysoba And also notice that we are back to talking about the numbers of people who voted for him after initially arguing that those should not be seen as his supporters and yet those were beyond 72 million people. Four or five million more than ever voted for Obama in an election. Those numbers are huge! To argue that a mere 60% of them or even a mere 40% or a mere 30% of them refuse to accept the result, we are talking massive numbers and you can bet that the more times they repeat the mantra that the election was stolen the more you can expect that to grow. Anyway you cut it, the complacency of some around here is altogether the wrong way to think about this. Did'nt you just criticise me for biing an alarmaist?
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

12th November 2020, 08:26 PM	#191
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 29,304	Originally Posted by dudalb Did'nt you just criticise me for biing an alarmaist? I criticized you for the get your guns and ammo and get ready for the Civil War drumbeat that you have been beating for four years. It's been a constant mantra from you, has it not? What I am saying, is that the Republicans are not showing much sign of accepting the result of the election, and people need to be aware of that. Do you disagree with either of those points?
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

12th November 2020, 08:54 PM	#192
Minoosh Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 12,227	Originally Posted by Mader Levap To be honest, it is hard to determine why he got more votes. Did amount of deplorables among republicans grew? Or maybe they were just more inclined to vote in 2020? How do you distinguish these two cases? Note some mix of both is also possible. Maybe in 2016 they didn't realize you have to be registered in order to vote.

12th November 2020, 09:06 PM	#193
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,774	Originally Posted by d4m10n I don't expect the GOP will tell us the plan to steal the election until they start putting it through. Which makes it hypothetical!

12th November 2020, 09:09 PM	#194
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,774	Originally Posted by angrysoba Here's Trump "accepting" reluctantly, I suppose: Did you miss where I said you won't ever see him concede or give up in what he says (including Tweets)?

12th November 2020, 09:19 PM	#195
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,310	Arizona just called for Biden.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.