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Tags democratic party , Harry Reid , Rod Blagojevich , Roland Burris

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Old 7th January 2009, 05:14 PM   #1
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Democrats - The Party of Conviction.

Yesterday: We won't seat Burris.
Today: Ok, we will seat Burris.

As my dad used to say, spines of jello and balls of mush.
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Old 7th January 2009, 08:49 PM   #2
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And this surprises you... Why?

I didn't expect anything different. They waited until they could at least look as though they stood for something. They've done that, and now, they can seat this man.

For all we know, Burris might actually wind up being a good Senator. He did serve as state AG. Then again, we'll have to wait and see.

Frankly, short of Blaggy being shipped off to a Supermax, I didn't think they'd do anything BUT seat this man.
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Old 7th January 2009, 09:00 PM   #3
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Arrrgh. Sometimes my party pisses me off.

I would have at least liked to see them keep Burris out until maybe Pat Quinn took over in IL and re-appointed him (I'm not necessarily opposed to him as a person, just as a Blago appointee). But now that I see the Senate Dems essentially making the argument that they need to get the press off the whole Blago/Burris flap and back onto the bigger story of moving the country forward, I suppose this is inevitable. C'est la vie.

I will agree with RT, perhaps Burris will make a great Senator and in a couple of years all this posturing about his appointment will be moot. We shall see.

Now, if the IL Dems lose their spine and don't go after Blago with guns blazing, THEN I'm going to be really mad
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Old 7th January 2009, 09:04 PM   #4
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There is the racist undertone of this, however.

Blago, knowing just how deep in the he is, probably appointed him, knowing Burris would get tossed if he were busted. In a way, it's a nasty undercut to Burris, and to his authority as a Senator, even if he doesn't wind up going to prison.

Burris, to his credit, seems to have kept his cool about this. That speaks well of the man.
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Old 7th January 2009, 09:07 PM   #5
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Yes, I do agree that this whole fiasco was Blago's way of giving the finger to everyone involved - especially the Senate Dems. He's probably laughing his ass off about it right now, in fact.

I do also think that Burris has carried himself very well through all this. It makes him seem much more worthy of the position.
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Old 7th January 2009, 09:33 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Roadtoad View Post
And this surprises you... Why?
Touche. I don't know. I guess after the last 8 years I honestly was thinking perhaps there was a more principled party.

Quote:
I didn't expect anything different. They waited until they could at least look as though they stood for something. They've done that, and now, they can seat this man.

For all we know, Burris might actually wind up being a good Senator. He did serve as state AG. Then again, we'll have to wait and see.

Frankly, short of Blaggy being shipped off to a Supermax, I didn't think they'd do anything BUT seat this man.
You are more perceptive than I.

After all of these years Pogo's wisdom remains true.

"We have met the enemy and he is us"
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Old 7th January 2009, 09:34 PM   #7
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I know of nothing untoward regarding Burris. He seems competent and capable.
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Old 7th January 2009, 10:52 PM   #8
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Can't the democrats do any better than Harry Reid?
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Old 7th January 2009, 10:57 PM   #9
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I saw Reid on Meet the Press recently and he just won't give a straight answer to any question. What he does have to say is never interesting.
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Old 7th January 2009, 11:09 PM   #10
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Burris should be given the boot, no matter how competent he may seem. There's no way of knowing he didn't pay for his appointment, given the circumstances.
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Old 8th January 2009, 01:49 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by RPG Advocate View Post
Burris should be given the boot, no matter how competent he may seem. There's no way of knowing he didn't pay for his appointment, given the circumstances.

“Guilty until proven innocent?”
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Old 8th January 2009, 02:00 AM   #12
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I don't know if it has much to do with conviction, or lack thereof. My impression is that it was just plain thoughtlessness. First, go against Burris, presumably in an attempt to distance themselves from Blago, then give in upon the realization that they can't legally do anything about it.
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Old 8th January 2009, 03:45 AM   #13
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My thought on this is that it was Blagojevich calling their bluff. Everyone hated it, but the legality argument just wasn't there.
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Old 8th January 2009, 12:06 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
“Guilty until proven innocent?”
That's what I'm reading, but I could be wrong.

OTOH, Tsusaka might have called it. Blaggy's thumbing his nose at everyone. Of course, he's determined to drag down everyone he can while he's at it, ignoring the reality that he's created this mess in the first place.

He's certainly following in the tradition of Huey Long, it seems, but I'll wait until a jury of his peers decides that.
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Old 8th January 2009, 12:15 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Can't the democrats do any better than Harry Reid?
It's called the Senority system....the Congressperson who has been in Congress the longest is almost automatically promoted to the leadership position, regardless of his actual ability to lead. And this is the way both parties do it.
For some reason both parties seems wedded to this idiotic system,and it's is one of my pet peeves about the Congress.
Yeah, the Dems look really stupid over this.
The bad things are
A. A lot of the feeling were moving beyond race with the election of Obama is gone, since the Race Card was so effective in this case and
B. Heaven help Obama if any of his programs require any political courage on the part of congress.
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Old 8th January 2009, 12:24 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
B. Heaven help Obama if any of his programs require any political courage on the part of congress.
Considering everything he's been proposing over the past few weeks, not to mention the appointments he's been making, that's the whole enchilada.
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Old 8th January 2009, 12:44 PM   #17
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The dems just needed to show that they didn't approve of Blago picking a senator, so they did this little stunt to prove it. As much as the rest of us don't like it, the senate has no legal authority whatsoever to prevent Burris from taking office, so the fact that they changed their decision was inevitable.
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Old 8th January 2009, 12:53 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by tomwaits View Post
The dems just needed to show that they didn't approve of Blago picking a senator, so they did this little stunt to prove it. As much as the rest of us don't like it, the senate has no legal authority whatsoever to prevent Burris from taking office, so the fact that they changed their decision was inevitable.
Which only goes to prove that political cynicism + time > idealism.

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Old 8th January 2009, 10:16 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
My thought on this is that it was Blagojevich calling their bluff. Everyone hated it, but the legality argument just wasn't there.
TB, I think you've nailed it.
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Old 9th January 2009, 11:38 AM   #20
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Now, Blaggy's facing a trial in the Illinois Senate. They've impeached the SOB.
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Old 9th January 2009, 12:57 PM   #21
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Well..... three points here....

1) As much as it might look like he is guilty The Blago isn't convicted of anything yet. As a skeptic I must say that I am a little surprised that many folks here are taking the prosecutors side that Blago is guilty. It looks like it from the outside but we don't really know the story.

Some of the earlier charges were dropped if I remember correctly, not all the "facts" were facts. We have to keep in mind that one of the reasons prosecutors hold press conferences is to sway public opinion.

2) I don't have anything but the opinion of people who have worked with the guy but I suspect, if what they say is correct, The Blago is a little off his rocker. I would not be too surprised to hear he does not comprehend that he has done anything wrong (if he did) or that he does not worry about consequences after his picking Burris.

3) As to the OP, I seriously doubt this is a matter of "conviction" at all. The Dems sort of have their backs against the wall on this one. There is nothing from a legal standpoint that they can do about it.

What would you have them do, accept Burris with open arms? Then they would be called out for accepting someone under a cloud without doing anything. This was really their only option…. They don't like the idea but they can't prevent it from happening, they can only complain about it and then accept Burris after some saber rattling.

If they have "no conviction" about anything it is about holding an election to fill the seat. They are not sure they would win that seat so they want to get it filled with someone on their side, The Blago messed up their apple cart and now they can't accept his appointments with open arms and because of him they can't hold an election they feel they can win easily.
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Old 9th January 2009, 01:00 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
It's called the Senority system....the Congressperson who has been in Congress the longest is almost automatically promoted to the leadership position, regardless of his actual ability to lead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_by_seniority

There are 13 democratic senators who have been in the Senate longer than Reid including Ted Kennedy, Joe Biden (until next week), Chris Dodd and John Kerry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_by_seniority

There are about 25 democratic members of the house with more senority than Nancy Pelosi, yet she's the speaker of the house.

The (senority) system doesn't appear to be much of a system.
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Old 9th January 2009, 01:41 PM   #23
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The idea appears to have been to put enough pressure on Blago that he would not dare appoint anyone in exchange for consideration.
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Old 9th January 2009, 02:27 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
Democrats - The Party of Conviction.

Hey. Wait for the trial(s).

Then you can accurately say that they are the party of conviction(s).
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Old 9th January 2009, 08:48 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by not_so_new View Post
Well..... three points here....

1) As much as it might look like he is guilty The Blago isn't convicted of anything yet. As a skeptic I must say that I am a little surprised that many folks here are taking the prosecutors side that Blago is guilty. It looks like it from the outside but we don't really know the story.

Some of the earlier charges were dropped if I remember correctly, not all the "facts" were facts. We have to keep in mind that one of the reasons prosecutors hold press conferences is to sway public opinion.

2) I don't have anything but the opinion of people who have worked with the guy but I suspect, if what they say is correct, The Blago is a little off his rocker. I would not be too surprised to hear he does not comprehend that he has done anything wrong (if he did) or that he does not worry about consequences after his picking Burris.

3) As to the OP, I seriously doubt this is a matter of "conviction" at all. The Dems sort of have their backs against the wall on this one. There is nothing from a legal standpoint that they can do about it.

What would you have them do, accept Burris with open arms? Then they would be called out for accepting someone under a cloud without doing anything. This was really their only option…. They don't like the idea but they can't prevent it from happening, they can only complain about it and then accept Burris after some saber rattling.

If they have "no conviction" about anything it is about holding an election to fill the seat. They are not sure they would win that seat so they want to get it filled with someone on their side, The Blago messed up their apple cart and now they can't accept his appointments with open arms and because of him they can't hold an election they feel they can win easily.
Thanks, if they were principled they would have found out what they could and could not likley do (how many lawyers are Dems and how many lawyers work for them?), then announce a plan of action and stick with it. Lying through their teeth might have been the smart thing to do politically but it still sucks.

Yeah, I'm happy with my sentiment and I'll stand by it. Not that you don't have a point but given the fact they could have denounced Blago and told the truth that there was nothing they could do about it from the start then at least they would have been honest.

I was beginning to be swayed by the siren's song of Pelosi and Reid. The Dems aren't part of the culture of coruption. They wouldn't sell out and then lie. But politicians have a way of killing idealism. My point is that BS is still BS. IT doesn't matter whether it's served in Republican or Democrat rhetoric or white bread for that matter, it still tasts like ****.
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Old 9th January 2009, 11:30 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
It's called the Senority system....the Congressperson who has been in Congress the longest is almost automatically promoted to the leadership position, regardless of his actual ability to lead. And this is the way both parties do it.
For some reason both parties seems wedded to this idiotic system,and it's is one of my pet peeves about the Congress.
The most senior Senator in the majority party is the President pro Tempore of the Senate, which is a completely empty figurehead position. (It is held by Robert Byrd.) The Senate Majority Leader effectively controls the Senate and is as far as I'm aware voted in by their respective party. I guess seniority might play a role in how they vote, though.

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Old 10th January 2009, 03:51 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by NoZed Avenger View Post
Hey. Wait for the trial(s).

Then you can accurately say that they are the party of conviction(s).
True enough. It is worth pointing out that the GOP is already a party of conviction - I submit former Sen. Ted Stevens and former IL Gov. George Ryan as exhibits #1 and #2. Oh yeah, and wasn't there something with Tom "The Hammer" DeLay?
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