2020 Democratic Candidates Tracker - Part II - Page 86

varwoche · 23rd December 2019, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by carlitos

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...1172ec54a9.jpg

It's more realistic to attribute the first year in office to the prior POTUS. Imagine what this chart would look like then.

Delvo · 23rd December 2019, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by SezMe

Seems odd in light of the fact that GOPers "weren't seriously worried about what he would do..."

You want to explain that contradiction?

It's almost as if their obsessive hostility to him were about not how he would do the job, but something else about him...

Trebuchet · 23rd December 2019, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Delvo

It's almost as if their obsessive hostility to him were about not how he would do the job, but something else about him...

Mustard colored suit! Ok, you can skip the first and third words.

Brainster · 23rd December 2019, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by Delvo

It's almost as if their obsessive hostility to him were about not how he would do the job, but something else about him...

Like all ex-Presidents, he benefits from being so much more reasonable than the current crop of extremist candidates from his party.

SezMe · 24th December 2019, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

I listed the people that matter

You did? Sorry I missed that post. Give me a link.

SezMe · 24th December 2019, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by Brainster

Like all ex-Presidents, he benefits from being so much more reasonable than the current crop of extremist candidates from his party.

That word, and "radical" have been so overused and abused by the right that they have little meaning any more.

You might say that only a radical, extremist conservative would use them anymore!

Brainster · 24th December 2019, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by SezMe

That word, and "radical" have been so overused and abused by the right that they have little meaning any more.

You might say that only a radical, extremist conservative would use them anymore!

We cons are more used to being described as reactionary, but yeah, the extremist label cuts both ways.

BobTheCoward · 24th December 2019, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by SezMe

You did? Sorry I missed that post. Give me a link.

Any swing voter in a swing state essentially. Why even bother with a primary in California or New York?

Brainster · 24th December 2019, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

Any swing voter in a swing state essentially. Why even bother with a primary in California or New York?

Believe it or not, the presidential election is not the only race that will appear on the primary ballots in those states--there are representatives and senators and local elections as well. And even though those states may not be competitive in the general election, they can certainly have tight races in the presidential primaries.

And there is another reason--money. States that have primaries and caucuses benefit from the money spent by the campaigns. Consider Amy Klobuchar. She's not a top-tier candidate; she's stuck back in the pack. And she has 18 offices and 80 staffers in Iowa. The top tier candidates (Biden, Sanders, Warren and Buttigieg) all have 20-24 offices, and it's not hard to guess that those candidates have more staffers per office.

Trebuchet · 26th December 2019, 10:26 AM

In my state the presidential primary is separate from the regular primary. In the past it has generated little interest because of the late date but I see it's moved up to March this time. And it appears only the Dems are participating.
The regular primary isn't until August.

Brainster · 27th December 2019, 02:12 PM

Warren shakes the money tree but not the wine cave:

Quote:

Sen. Elizabeth Warren’s campaign told supporters in an email on Friday that, so far, it has raised just over $17 million in the fourth quarter, a significant drop from her fundraising haul during the third quarter.

The memo asks backers to step up giving to the campaign.

“So far this quarter, we’ve raised a little over $17 million. That’s a good chunk behind where we were at this time last quarter,” it says.

Venom · 27th December 2019, 04:53 PM

Bernie Sanders coming back strong. Democratic insiders on alert.

Quote:

“It may have been inevitable that eventually you would have two candidates representing each side of the ideological divide in the party. A lot of smart people I’ve talked to lately think there’s a very good chance those two end up being Biden and Sanders,” said David Brock, a longtime Hillary Clinton ally who founded a pro-Clinton super PAC in the 2016 campaign. “They’ve both proven to be very resilient.”

Democratic insiders said they are rethinking Sanders’ bid for a few reasons: First, Warren has recently fallen in national and early state surveys. Second, Sanders has withstood the ups and downs of the primary, including a heart attack. At the same time, other candidates with once-high expectations, such as Kamala Harris, Cory Booker and Beto O’Rourke, have dropped out or languished in single digits in the polls.

“I believe people should take him very seriously. He has a very good shot of winning Iowa, a very good shot of winning New Hampshire, and other than Joe Biden, the best shot of winning Nevada,” said Dan Pfeiffer, who served as an adviser to former President Barack Obama. “He could build a real head of steam heading into South Carolina and Super Tuesday.”

d4m10n · 27th December 2019, 05:45 PM

Joy of joys, the Far Left vs. Center Left dynamic again. Maybe it will prove to be as winning a formula as last time.

angrysoba · 27th December 2019, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

Joy of joys, the Far Left vs. Center Left dynamic again. Maybe it will prove to be as winning a formula as last time.

It certainly was...for Donald Trump!!!!!1!

Venom · 27th December 2019, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

Joy of joys, the Far Left vs. Center Left dynamic again. Maybe it will prove to be as winning a formula as last time.

I think Sanders has a great chance of snatching back the Obama Trumpers.

It's funny though how Joe Biden is marginally the most favored among Obama-Trump voters, except for Trump himself.

d4m10n · 27th December 2019, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by Venom

I think Sanders has a great chance of snatching back the Obama Trumpers.

Obama and Trump have so little in common I've more than a little trouble modeling this demographic. What did they both have to offer, aside from testicles?

TragicMonkey · 27th December 2019, 06:08 PM

Hillary Clinton is a loathsome and dreadful person, but she undoubtedly had the necessary brains and skills to be an effective president. If she couldn't win against Trump, then Creepy Uncle Biden sure as hell won't be able to. He's got twenty percent the brains and none of the skills she has. It's time to abandon the mythical "centrism" --which is actually just subservience to corporate interests while mouthing crowd-pleasing mantras-- and go for candidates with actually desirable political agendas. Warren, for the sane, and Sanders, for the zany. Either would be better than Biden.

Venom · 27th December 2019, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

Obama and Trump have so little in common I've more than a little trouble modeling this demographic. What did they both have to offer, aside from testicles?

If you ask Bernie campaign leaders they swear it was the economic anxiety.

If you look at the Washington Post study or the 2018 study here it looks much simpler.

Aridas · 27th December 2019, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

Joy of joys, the Far Left vs. Center Left dynamic again. Maybe it will prove to be as winning a formula as last time.

Mmm. First of all, Bernie isn't far left. Bernie is center left. Biden is maybe barely left of center. Maybe. Yes, you can try to argue that Bernie's far left for the US, but that's buying into the Republican and corporate media framing which lets them control the narrative to their own advantage, without much respect to fact or the whole picture.

Either way, one of the biggest problems for both Biden and Bernie is that they *both* have very significant unfavorable ratings within the Democratic Party and Democrat-leaners (more positive than negative, of course, but a lot of negative). And in an important difference to conservatives, fear-based motivation just isn't anywhere remotely close to as effective for liberals. Far more of them will be likely to just not vote. Warren's very low unfavorability rating is one of the reasons why I firmly favor her over both Bernie and Biden, either way.

Originally Posted by Venom

I think Sanders has a great chance of snatching back the Obama Trumpers.

It's funny though how Joe Biden is marginally the most favored among Obama-Trump voters, except for Trump himself.

Originally Posted by d4m10n

Obama and Trump have so little in common I've more than a little trouble modeling this demographic. What did they both have to offer, aside from testicles?

I would suggest that a desire for "change" was a likely a common notable motivating similarity. Both Obama and Trump were candidates for change, albeit in different fashions, and it's worth noting that Trump did claim during his campaigning to support a lot of notably more popular (and left-leaning by virtue of the GOP candidates pretty much all going right-wing extremist) positions than the Republicans were generally supporting. The increase in effectiveness of right-wing nonsense propaganda for a bunch of reasons fairly certainly played into the dynamic there significantly, though.

Mumbles · 27th December 2019, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Hillary Clinton is a loathsome and dreadful person

Let's stop, right here.

I've never really understood how she, any more than any other US politician, is this.

SezMe · 27th December 2019, 11:49 PM

Agreed. She may not give you the political warm and fuzzies but that in no way makes her "loathsome and dreadful". She handled two very public humiliations, the loss to Obama and Bill's hummer, with class. She was an effective Senator and Secretary of State.

Lighten up, man.

SezMe · 27th December 2019, 11:51 PM

dup

This thread is getting really slow; it needs another split.

The Great Zaganza · 27th December 2019, 11:57 PM

Seeking the Democrats' Nomination, it's not just a bit rude for Bernie to call himself an Independent.

Skeptic Ginger · 28th December 2019, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by Mumbles

Let's stop, right here.

I've never really understood how she, any more than any other US politician, is this.

If you repeat a lie often enough...

She didn't stay home baking cookies when her husband was POTUS.

Mumbles · 28th December 2019, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by Venom

I think Sanders has a great chance of snatching back the Obama Trumpers.

"Obama-Trumpers" simply are not thinking. "I like Obama, but I'm also a birther". Go away, you are clearly an idiot to support both the first black president, and also violent white supremacism. I hope no campaign I like never seeks the support of any such idiot.

(If you changed over the 8 ensuing years, okay, but let's not even pretend that you can reasonably be both pro- and-anti white supremacist at the same time.)

TragicMonkey · 28th December 2019, 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by Mumbles

Let's stop, right here.

I've never really understood how she, any more than any other US politician, is this.

I don't recall saying she's more so than other politicians. She's certainly enough so to earn her my enmity. She was always too close to the big banks and finance industry for my liking (a failing Biden also shares, if indeed he doesn't surpass her there--he was once known as "the senator from MBNC") and her rather late and cynical about-face on the topic of gay rights didn't win her much love. She's too much of a party machine creature and always has been. I don't think I've ever heard her espouse a position that didn't seem calculated for its political advantage, as opposed to deriving from underlying principle. I did vote for her, given the alternative was even worse, and I think she would have made a decent president, but I wouldn't consider her a decent person and wouldn't trust her further than I could throw her stash of funnymoney.

TragicMonkey · 28th December 2019, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by SezMe

Agreed. She may not give you the political warm and fuzzies but that in no way makes her "loathsome and dreadful". She handled two very public humiliations, the loss to Obama and Bill's hummer, with class. She was an effective Senator and Secretary of State.

Lighten up, man.

I wouldn't consider losing to Obama a humiliation. Win a few, lose a few, that's part of the career of a politician.

As for her husband's scandal(s), they don't really reflect either positively or negatively on Hillary. Whatever credit she earned for loyally sticking by her man was negated by the points she lost for foolishly sticking by her man. She probably shouldn't have waded into the "believe her" business without considering her own past statements about her husband's accusers and how that reflected upon her...but like I said above, I don't think she was following an actual principle in there, she was just playing a strategy.

TragicMonkey · 28th December 2019, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

If you repeat a lie often enough...

She didn't stay home baking cookies when her husband was POTUS.

Put it back in the deck. There are a lot of reasons to dislike Hillary Clinton that have nothing to do with her sex. And here's a hint: someone who dislikes Hillary out of mere sexism is hardly going to support Warren over all the other candidates. Warren, the one with actual principles behind her policy suggestions, Warren who pursues those principles even when they're not popular with the focus groups.

Childlike Empress · 28th December 2019, 03:24 AM

Christmas with Tulsi and her hubby:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Venom · 28th December 2019, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by Mumbles

"Obama-Trumpers" simply are not thinking. "I like Obama, but I'm also a birther". Go away, you are clearly an idiot to support both the first black president, and also violent white supremacism. I hope no campaign I like never seeks the support of any such idiot.

(If you changed over the 8 ensuing years, okay, but let's not even pretend that you can reasonably be both pro- and-anti white supremacist at the same time.)

I don't think they are necessarily "pro white supremacist" but they let it slide, possibly partly because Trump is white.

I need a good job, financial security for my family, I don't care about all that Washington drama. Media blowing it out of proportion, etc.

Of course if Obama acted like Trump I'm not so sure they'd be saying that.

Agatha · 28th December 2019, 11:19 AM

Please continue your discussion in Part III.

Posted By:Agatha

Agatha · 28th December 2019, 11:20 AM

Please continue your discussion in Part III.

Posted By:Agatha

23rd December 2019, 05:06 PM	#3401
varwoche Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 15,464	Originally Posted by carlitos http://www.internationalskeptics.com...1172ec54a9.jpg It's more realistic to attribute the first year in office to the prior POTUS. Imagine what this chart would look like then.
	__________________ To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.

23rd December 2019, 06:48 PM	#3403
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 31,255	Originally Posted by Delvo It's almost as if their obsessive hostility to him were about not how he would do the job, but something else about him... Mustard colored suit! Ok, you can skip the first and third words.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

23rd December 2019, 11:38 PM	#3404
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 18,358	Originally Posted by Delvo It's almost as if their obsessive hostility to him were about not how he would do the job, but something else about him... Like all ex-Presidents, he benefits from being so much more reasonable than the current crop of extremist candidates from his party.
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

24th December 2019, 12:15 PM	#3407
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 18,358	Originally Posted by SezMe That word, and "radical" have been so overused and abused by the right that they have little meaning any more. You might say that only a radical, extremist conservative would use them anymore! We cons are more used to being described as reactionary, but yeah, the extremist label cuts both ways.
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

24th December 2019, 09:22 PM	#3409
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 18,358	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward Any swing voter in a swing state essentially. Why even bother with a primary in California or New York? Believe it or not, the presidential election is not the only race that will appear on the primary ballots in those states--there are representatives and senators and local elections as well. And even though those states may not be competitive in the general election, they can certainly have tight races in the presidential primaries. And there is another reason--money. States that have primaries and caucuses benefit from the money spent by the campaigns. Consider Amy Klobuchar. She's not a top-tier candidate; she's stuck back in the pack. And she has 18 offices and 80 staffers in Iowa. The top tier candidates (Biden, Sanders, Warren and Buttigieg) all have 20-24 offices, and it's not hard to guess that those candidates have more staffers per office.
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

23rd December 2019, 06:41 PM	#3402
Delvo Дэлво Δελϝο דֶלְבֹֿ देल्वो Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: North Tonawanda, NY Posts: 9,361	Originally Posted by SezMe Seems odd in light of the fact that GOPers "weren't seriously worried about what he would do..." You want to explain that contradiction? It's almost as if their obsessive hostility to him were about not how he would do the job, but something else about him...

24th December 2019, 12:00 AM	#3405
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 25,114	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward I listed the people that matter You did? Sorry I missed that post. Give me a link.

24th December 2019, 12:04 AM	#3406
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 25,114	Originally Posted by Brainster Like all ex-Presidents, he benefits from being so much more reasonable than the current crop of extremist candidates from his party. That word, and "radical" have been so overused and abused by the right that they have little meaning any more. You might say that only a radical, extremist conservative would use them anymore!

24th December 2019, 12:20 PM	#3408
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,410	Originally Posted by SezMe You did? Sorry I missed that post. Give me a link. Any swing voter in a swing state essentially. Why even bother with a primary in California or New York?

26th December 2019, 10:26 AM	#3410
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 31,255	In my state the presidential primary is separate from the regular primary. In the past it has generated little interest because of the late date but I see it's moved up to March this time. And it appears only the Dems are participating. The regular primary isn't until August.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. Last edited by Trebuchet; 26th December 2019 at 10:29 AM.

27th December 2019, 02:12 PM	#3411
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 18,358	Warren shakes the money tree but not the wine cave: Quote: Sen. Elizabeth Warren’s campaign told supporters in an email on Friday that, so far, it has raised just over $17 million in the fourth quarter, a significant drop from her fundraising haul during the third quarter. The memo asks backers to step up giving to the campaign. “So far this quarter, we’ve raised a little over $17 million. That’s a good chunk behind where we were at this time last quarter,” it says.
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

27th December 2019, 04:53 PM	#3412
Venom Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 4,957	Bernie Sanders coming back strong. Democratic insiders on alert. Quote: “It may have been inevitable that eventually you would have two candidates representing each side of the ideological divide in the party. A lot of smart people I’ve talked to lately think there’s a very good chance those two end up being Biden and Sanders,” said David Brock, a longtime Hillary Clinton ally who founded a pro-Clinton super PAC in the 2016 campaign. “They’ve both proven to be very resilient.” Democratic insiders said they are rethinking Sanders’ bid for a few reasons: First, Warren has recently fallen in national and early state surveys. Second, Sanders has withstood the ups and downs of the primary, including a heart attack. At the same time, other candidates with once-high expectations, such as Kamala Harris, Cory Booker and Beto O’Rourke, have dropped out or languished in single digits in the polls. “I believe people should take him very seriously. He has a very good shot of winning Iowa, a very good shot of winning New Hampshire, and other than Joe Biden, the best shot of winning Nevada,” said Dan Pfeiffer, who served as an adviser to former President Barack Obama. “He could build a real head of steam heading into South Carolina and Super Tuesday.”

27th December 2019, 05:45 PM	#3413
d4m10n Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 6,658	Joy of joys, the Far Left vs. Center Left dynamic again. Maybe it will prove to be as winning a formula as last time.
	__________________ "Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin Last edited by d4m10n; 27th December 2019 at 05:46 PM.

27th December 2019, 05:48 PM	#3414
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 29,599	Originally Posted by d4m10n Joy of joys, the Far Left vs. Center Left dynamic again. Maybe it will prove to be as winning a formula as last time. It certainly was...for Donald Trump!!!!!1!
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

27th December 2019, 05:57 PM	#3415
Venom Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 4,957	Originally Posted by d4m10n Joy of joys, the Far Left vs. Center Left dynamic again. Maybe it will prove to be as winning a formula as last time. I think Sanders has a great chance of snatching back the Obama Trumpers. It's funny though how Joe Biden is marginally the most favored among Obama-Trump voters, except for Trump himself.

27th December 2019, 06:04 PM	#3416
d4m10n Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 6,658	Originally Posted by Venom I think Sanders has a great chance of snatching back the Obama Trumpers. Obama and Trump have so little in common I've more than a little trouble modeling this demographic. What did they both have to offer, aside from testicles?
	__________________ "Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin Last edited by d4m10n; 27th December 2019 at 06:05 PM.

27th December 2019, 06:08 PM	#3417
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,708	Hillary Clinton is a loathsome and dreadful person, but she undoubtedly had the necessary brains and skills to be an effective president. If she couldn't win against Trump, then Creepy Uncle Biden sure as hell won't be able to. He's got twenty percent the brains and none of the skills she has. It's time to abandon the mythical "centrism" --which is actually just subservience to corporate interests while mouthing crowd-pleasing mantras-- and go for candidates with actually desirable political agendas. Warren, for the sane, and Sanders, for the zany. Either would be better than Biden.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

27th December 2019, 06:18 PM	#3418
Venom Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 4,957	Originally Posted by d4m10n Obama and Trump have so little in common I've more than a little trouble modeling this demographic. What did they both have to offer, aside from testicles? If you ask Bernie campaign leaders they swear it was the economic anxiety. If you look at the Washington Post study or the 2018 study here it looks much simpler.

27th December 2019, 11:07 PM	#3419
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 7,567	Originally Posted by d4m10n Joy of joys, the Far Left vs. Center Left dynamic again. Maybe it will prove to be as winning a formula as last time. Mmm. First of all, Bernie isn't far left. Bernie is center left. Biden is maybe barely left of center. Maybe. Yes, you can try to argue that Bernie's far left for the US, but that's buying into the Republican and corporate media framing which lets them control the narrative to their own advantage, without much respect to fact or the whole picture. Either way, one of the biggest problems for both Biden and Bernie is that they both have very significant unfavorable ratings within the Democratic Party and Democrat-leaners (more positive than negative, of course, but a lot of negative). And in an important difference to conservatives, fear-based motivation just isn't anywhere remotely close to as effective for liberals. Far more of them will be likely to just not vote. Warren's very low unfavorability rating is one of the reasons why I firmly favor her over both Bernie and Biden, either way. Originally Posted by Venom I think Sanders has a great chance of snatching back the Obama Trumpers. It's funny though how Joe Biden is marginally the most favored among Obama-Trump voters, except for Trump himself. Originally Posted by d4m10n Obama and Trump have so little in common I've more than a little trouble modeling this demographic. What did they both have to offer, aside from testicles? I would suggest that a desire for "change" was a likely a common notable motivating similarity. Both Obama and Trump were candidates for change, albeit in different fashions, and it's worth noting that Trump did claim during his campaigning to support a lot of notably more popular (and left-leaning by virtue of the GOP candidates pretty much all going right-wing extremist) positions than the Republicans were generally supporting. The increase in effectiveness of right-wing nonsense propaganda for a bunch of reasons fairly certainly played into the dynamic there significantly, though.
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon. Last edited by Aridas; 27th December 2019 at 11:08 PM.

27th December 2019, 11:28 PM	#3420
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,517	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey Hillary Clinton is a loathsome and dreadful person Let's stop, right here. I've never really understood how she, any more than any other US politician, is this.
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,517

27th December 2019, 11:49 PM	#3421
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 25,114	Agreed. She may not give you the political warm and fuzzies but that in no way makes her "loathsome and dreadful". She handled two very public humiliations, the loss to Obama and Bill's hummer, with class. She was an effective Senator and Secretary of State. Lighten up, man.

27th December 2019, 11:51 PM	#3422
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 25,114	dup This thread is getting really slow; it needs another split.
	Last edited by SezMe; 27th December 2019 at 11:54 PM.

27th December 2019, 11:57 PM	#3423
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,852	Seeking the Democrats' Nomination, it's not just a bit rude for Bernie to call himself an Independent.
	__________________ The things that you're liable To read in the Bible It ain't necessarily so

28th December 2019, 12:34 AM	#3424
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 87,741	Originally Posted by Mumbles Let's stop, right here. I've never really understood how she, any more than any other US politician, is this. If you repeat a lie often enough... She didn't stay home baking cookies when her husband was POTUS.

28th December 2019, 12:38 AM	#3425
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,517	Originally Posted by Venom I think Sanders has a great chance of snatching back the Obama Trumpers. "Obama-Trumpers" simply are not thinking. "I like Obama, but I'm also a birther". Go away, you are clearly an idiot to support both the first black president, and also violent white supremacism. I hope no campaign I like never seeks the support of any such idiot. (If you changed over the 8 ensuing years, okay, but let's not even pretend that you can reasonably be both pro- and-anti white supremacist at the same time.)
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,517	Last edited by Mumbles; 28th December 2019 at 12:40 AM.

28th December 2019, 12:45 AM	#3426
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,708	Originally Posted by Mumbles Let's stop, right here. I've never really understood how she, any more than any other US politician, is this. I don't recall saying she's more so than other politicians. She's certainly enough so to earn her my enmity. She was always too close to the big banks and finance industry for my liking (a failing Biden also shares, if indeed he doesn't surpass her there--he was once known as "the senator from MBNC") and her rather late and cynical about-face on the topic of gay rights didn't win her much love. She's too much of a party machine creature and always has been. I don't think I've ever heard her espouse a position that didn't seem calculated for its political advantage, as opposed to deriving from underlying principle. I did vote for her, given the alternative was even worse, and I think she would have made a decent president, but I wouldn't consider her a decent person and wouldn't trust her further than I could throw her stash of funnymoney.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

28th December 2019, 12:50 AM	#3427
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,708	Originally Posted by SezMe Agreed. She may not give you the political warm and fuzzies but that in no way makes her "loathsome and dreadful". She handled two very public humiliations, the loss to Obama and Bill's hummer, with class. She was an effective Senator and Secretary of State. Lighten up, man. I wouldn't consider losing to Obama a humiliation. Win a few, lose a few, that's part of the career of a politician. As for her husband's scandal(s), they don't really reflect either positively or negatively on Hillary. Whatever credit she earned for loyally sticking by her man was negated by the points she lost for foolishly sticking by her man. She probably shouldn't have waded into the "believe her" business without considering her own past statements about her husband's accusers and how that reflected upon her...but like I said above, I don't think she was following an actual principle in there, she was just playing a strategy.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. Last edited by TragicMonkey; 28th December 2019 at 12:53 AM.

28th December 2019, 12:52 AM	#3428
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,708	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger If you repeat a lie often enough... She didn't stay home baking cookies when her husband was POTUS. Put it back in the deck. There are a lot of reasons to dislike Hillary Clinton that have nothing to do with her sex. And here's a hint: someone who dislikes Hillary out of mere sexism is hardly going to support Warren over all the other candidates. Warren, the one with actual principles behind her policy suggestions, Warren who pursues those principles even when they're not popular with the focus groups.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

28th December 2019, 10:13 AM	#3430
Venom Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 4,957	Originally Posted by Mumbles "Obama-Trumpers" simply are not thinking. "I like Obama, but I'm also a birther". Go away, you are clearly an idiot to support both the first black president, and also violent white supremacism. I hope no campaign I like never seeks the support of any such idiot. (If you changed over the 8 ensuing years, okay, but let's not even pretend that you can reasonably be both pro- and-anti white supremacist at the same time.) I don't think they are necessarily "pro white supremacist" but they let it slide, possibly partly because Trump is white. I need a good job, financial security for my family, I don't care about all that Washington drama. Media blowing it out of proportion, etc. Of course if Obama acted like Trump I'm not so sure they'd be saying that.