[Continuation] The Trump Presidency: Part 19 - Page 97

Cain · 29th February 2020, 04:47 PM

It's sad to see so many Americans more concerned with their own lives, and not focused on keeping the economy great in order to ensure President Trump gets re-elected.

Stacyhs · 29th February 2020, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by shemp

They probably wouldn't, but some of the idiot meathead armed-to-the-teeth followers might, not enough to take over, but perhaps enough to cause trouble and maybe kill some innocent people.

I don't really think Trump would try that. He's more likely to pardon himself for anything he might have done, then go home and try to rally his followers for another run in 2024.

THAT is entirely possible. He's got some real crrrraaaaaazzy cult followers.

Stacyhs · 29th February 2020, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Cain

It's sad to see so many Americans more concerned with their own lives, and not focused on keeping the economy great in order to ensure President Trump gets re-elected.

So many Democrats spreading the Corona virus hoax just in order to tank Wall Street. Sad! #demhoaxwitchhunt

Aridas · 29th February 2020, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

You are talking civil freaking war. Revolution. As much as I detest McConnell, Graham, and their ilk, they are not going back a civil war in order to keep Trump in office. Give me a break.

...Honestly? It's hard to say. As Rove outlined long ago, the goal is to put the US under permanent Republican control. A dictatorship, in effect, one way or another. As long as they end up with the power, why would they care about how they got it?

It's true that it's more likely that the "Boogaloo" will likely just involve a bunch of terrorist actions, though.

Back to coronavirus, though. It's likely worth a reminder, given all these accusations of coronavirus being hyped up as a means to hurt Trump... that Republicans literally did that to Obama, especially Limbaugh (but Trump too!), with Ebola. Scum.

Also, that presser hastily scheduled after the first confirmed coronavirus death in the US was... WTF?

Cutting through the distractions, though the response of this administration is...

Quote:

Absolutely the only steps they’re adding is a “travel restriction” on Iran, that does nothing. And two “advisories” to people traveling to Italy and South Korea.

Man. If only we had Warren. Or an administration that was willing to pay attention. She had a decent plan to work with shortly after coronavirus came to our attention.

JoeMorgue · 29th February 2020, 06:24 PM

The Left going "Okay politics isn't working so we're going to fight the Right like the Wolverines in Red Dawn" is like me not being able to beat Mike Tyson at chess so I just start punching him, I've just shifted the conflict into something where I'm even more disadvantaged.

An armed conflict is probably the only thing the Left could against the Right that would be less effective then what they are doing now.

Half of my Facebook feed is full of people who can't order pizza over the phone because of their "crippling social anxiety" talking about they are going Bajorian on the Cardassians if 2020 goes South.

TheSupermeerkat · 29th February 2020, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

The Left going "Okay politics isn't working so we're going to fight the Right like the Wolverines in Red Dwn" is like me not being able to beat Mike Tyson at chess so I just start punching him, I've just shifted the conflict into something where I'm even more disadvantaged.

An armed conflict is probably the only thing the Left could against the Right that would be less effective then what they are doing now.

The left? Who? When?

Trebuchet · 29th February 2020, 06:47 PM

The Trump administration has made a deal with the Taliban. Can you imagine the outcry if Obama did that?

Aridas · 29th February 2020, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

The Trump administration has made a deal with the Taliban. Can you imagine the outcry if Obama did that?

You know... if that didn't apply to about half the things that the Trump Administration does or more, it might be more impactful. As I've said before, though, the stuff that Trump did in the first month or two alone would have been enough for the Republicans to impeach him if he was a Democrat - and Democrats would probably have supported such. Things have gone downhill from there.

Just about everyone in the US is being harmed by the Trump Administration, in one way or many now, after all, and pretty much all our allies have been harmed by the Trump Administration.

Stacyhs · 29th February 2020, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by Aridas

...Honestly? It's hard to say. As Rove outlined long ago, the goal is to put the US under permanent Republican control. A dictatorship, in effect, one way or another. As long as they end up with the power, why would they care about how they got it?

It's true that it's more likely that the "Boogaloo" will likely just involve a bunch of terrorist actions, though.

Back to coronavirus, though. It's likely worth a reminder, given all these accusations of coronavirus being hyped up as a means to hurt Trump... that Republicans literally did that to Obama, especially Limbaugh (but Trump too!), with Ebola. Scum.

Also, that presser hastily scheduled after the first confirmed coronavirus death in the US was... WTF?

Cutting through the distractions, though the response of this administration is...

Man. If only we had Warren. Or an administration that was willing to pay attention. She had a decent plan to work with shortly after coronavirus came to our attention.

I'd like to see exactly what Rove said. Can you provide it?

There may be some in the GOP who would like to take permanent control, but I do believe that most would not support such a takeover. Nor do I think the American people, GOP or not, would support such a move. Not even most Trumpers.

I like Warren. As it looks like a Bide/Sanders race, I'd love to see Warren as VP...preferably a Biden-Warren ticket.

TragicMonkey · 29th February 2020, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

The Left going "Okay politics isn't working so we're going to fight the Right like the Wolverines in Red Dawn" is like me not being able to beat Mike Tyson at chess so I just start punching him, I've just shifted the conflict into something where I'm even more disadvantaged.

An armed conflict is probably the only thing the Left could against the Right that would be less effective then what they are doing now.

Half of my Facebook feed is full of people who can't order pizza over the phone because of their "crippling social anxiety" talking about they are going Bajorian on the Cardassians if 2020 goes South.

No wonder you have strange notions of "The Left" if you believe your "Facebook feed" (whatever that is) is representative of it. Perhaps you shouldn't take an internet thing for teenagers seriously?

And second, the Bajorans achieved nothing against the Cardassians, it took a war with the Federation to free Bajor, they'd never have done it alone. And even then it was Federation protection that kept it free, and Federation intervention that freed it again from its dalliance with the Dominion.

Aridas · 29th February 2020, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I'd like to see exactly what Rove said. Can you provide it?

To be more fair on that than I probably need to be, this was around the turn of the century, with Rove officially trying to do it in a more democratic way - by building a ideological small government coalition that was a significant majority in size. Less officially, Rove and the rest of those he was working with *knew* that that would be a pipe dream while people still liked things like, say, social security. So a permanent Republican majority would fairly certainly have to be achieved via suppressing the votes of undesirable voters again, like, for example, African Americans and women had been for... most of the time that the US has existed. For context, IIRC, in Virginia at the time of school desegregation, to have a pretty much permanent majority required gaining about... 10-20% of the official potential vote.

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

There may be some in the GOP who would like to take permanent control, but I do believe that most would not support such a takeover. Nor do I think the American people, GOP or not, would support such a move. Not even most Trumpers.

I think that you might be surprised, then, at the numbers. "Most," maybe. Yet, even so, a far, far too significant minority, though, and a population that is far too influenced by the right-wing disinformation machine. Going further, the constant, strategic, and sustained utter misuse of words like "coup" by Trump and the GOP should be particularly concerning, given their history of accusing Democrats of all kinds of things that they turn around and then do themselves with no consequences at all and a ready "Democrats are hypocrites, dismiss them" defense once the outrage dies down.

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I like Warren. As it looks like a Bide/Sanders race, I'd love to see Warren as VP...preferably a Biden-Warren ticket.

I'm... okay with Warren being VP. Not as good as her being President, of course, but a Biden/Warren ticket would likely be relatively unifying.

newyorkguy · 29th February 2020, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I'd like to see exactly what Rove said. Can you provide it?...

I recall reading about that. That the Republicans would win such substantial majorities that they'd work to institute one party rule. Either Rove or Gingrich spoke about that, how it would really benefit this society. Be so much more efficient. I don't have a reference either, and I looked recently. Probably not something the GOP wants to discuss much in public. Related-

Trump supporter Rupert Murdoch believed authoritarian states can work. That I have a cite for. A New Yorker magazine piece from twenty-five years ago:

Quote:

In April of 1994, Murdoch removed the BBC from the Star network in China and replaced it with Chinese-language films. “The BBC was driving them nuts,” Murdoch says. “It’s not worth it.” The Chinese government is “scared to death of what happened in Tiananmen Square,” he says. “The truth is—and we Americans don’t like to admit it—that authoritarian countries can work. There may have been human-rights abuses in Chile. But that country under Pinochet raised living standards. And now it has a democracy. The best thing you can do in China is engage the Chinese and wait.” Link

Stacyhs · 1st March 2020, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by Aridas

To be more fair on that than I probably need to be, this was around the turn of the century, with Rove officially trying to do it in a more democratic way - by building a ideological small government coalition that was a significant majority in size. Less officially, Rove and the rest of those he was working with *knew* that that would be a pipe dream while people still liked things like, say, social security. So a permanent Republican majority would fairly certainly have to be achieved via suppressing the votes of undesirable voters again, like, for example, African Americans and women had been for... most of the time that the US has existed. For context, IIRC, in Virginia at the time of school desegregation, to have a pretty much permanent majority required gaining about... 10-20% of the official potential vote.

I think that you might be surprised, then, at the numbers. "Most," maybe. Yet, even so, a far, far too significant minority, though, and a population that is far too influenced by the right-wing disinformation machine. Going further, the constant, strategic, and sustained utter misuse of words like "coup" by Trump and the GOP should be particularly concerning, given their history of accusing Democrats of all kinds of things that they turn around and then do themselves with no consequences at all and a ready "Democrats are hypocrites, dismiss them" defense once the outrage dies down.

I'm... okay with Warren being VP. Not as good as her being President, of course, but a Biden/Warren ticket would likely be relatively unifying.

My problem with your link is that it does not define what they mean by a "strong leader". They do say this:

Quote:

According to a March 13 poll from the Democracy Fund Voter Study Group, one in four Americans think it would be good to have a “strong leader” who does not have to bother with Congress and elections.

Yet nowhere in the article is the highlighted part included in a "strong leader" definition. In fact, no definition of what they mean by that term is given. The polls only say "strong leader" with no mention of that leader being an authoritarian. A "strong leader" can be anything from a very pro-democratic, Constitution supporting person of strong character and leadership abilities to a dictator. When I think of a strong leader, an authoritarian/dictator does not come to mind.

I'd prefer Warren at the top of the ticket, too, but that isn't going to happen. Chances are it's going to be Sanders or Biden. I don't like Sanders at all.

Skeptic Ginger · 1st March 2020, 01:13 AM

Originally Posted by Bob001

We don't know if Fauci has "caved in." We don't know if Pence et al. have told him what to say or prevented him from telling the truth, only that they want his public remarks cleared first, which is not all that unusual in a government bureaucracy. Fauci is about as close to a hero as the medical world has produced. Chances are he sees his role as trying to do good in a crisis despite obstacles. For him to quit in protest would only mean that a Repub hack would be put in his place. Not good for the country, and he knows it.

And I note that he didn't have any problem contradicting Trump directly about how long it will take to produce a vaccine with Trump standing next to him. It's way too early to say he's caved.

Fauci had the talk shows scheduled then cancelled them all when Pence was assigned to censor people.

He did go on one show yesterday. He avoided answering a political question. That's fine.

Skeptic Ginger · 1st March 2020, 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by slyjoe

I don't know if the doctor is a civil servant or if he can be fired at will by the administration. He doesn't sound like an admin appointee, so I'm not sure Trump can just fire him.

Pretty sure Trump can replace him. He installed a new head of CDC.

But Fauci said this: RCP: NIH's Dr. Fauci: "I've Never Been Muzzled" By The Trump Administration; "A Real Misrepresentation" By Media

Aridas · 1st March 2020, 01:20 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

My problem with your link is that it does not define what they mean by a "strong leader". They do say this:

Yet nowhere in the article is the highlighted part included in a "strong leader" definition. In fact, no definition of what they mean by that term is given. The polls only say "strong leader" with no mention of that leader being an authoritarian. A "strong leader" can be anything from a very pro-democratic, Constitution supporting person of strong character and leadership abilities to a dictator. When I think of a strong leader, an authoritarian/dictator does not come to mind.

Fair enough. Maybe a look at this article might help with that?

The Great Zaganza · 1st March 2020, 01:40 AM

The Trump Deal with the Taliban is exactly like the Trade Deal with China - a vague commitment to do something in the future if things go a certain way.
I guess it's progress to talk at all, but at this point it is little more than PR.

Pixel42 · 1st March 2020, 02:50 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

A "strong leader" can be anything from a very pro-democratic, Constitution supporting person of strong character and leadership abilities to a dictator.

The problem with the Lord Vetinari type of benevolent dictatorship, of course, is that it only works for a while, because the next one could be a lot worse. Bit like monarchy - fine when you've got a good king, not so fine when his idiot son succeeds him.

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a system that produces a reasonable leader every time. Democracy probably comes closest, but we have ample recent evidence that it also can fail spectacularly.

quadraginta · 1st March 2020, 02:58 AM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

The Trump administration has made a deal with the Taliban. Can you imagine the outcry if Obama did that?

It's probably just a result of old age reducing my memory to a shambles, since it's been eighteen years, but ...

Didn't we go to war with Afghanistan eighteen years ago because the Taliban was too untrustworthy to negotiate with?

Has eighteen years of war made them more trustworthy? I mean obviously we are negotiating from a position of strength, since they're staying ... in power ... and we're the ones who want to bug out (/sarcasm), but how is that fundamentally different from the situation all those years ago when we decided that war was the only possible alternative, since they couldn't be trusted to bargain in good faith?

llwyd · 1st March 2020, 05:50 AM

Well, this is basically the best available option in a situation where all options suck. Best just to cut losses and keep a beady eye on the future Taliban Afghanistan - fine if they just opress and slaughter their own people, but won't threaten or attack the West.

Captain_Swoop · 1st March 2020, 06:14 AM

Trump Tweets

Sleepy Joe Biden’s victory in the South Carolina Democrat Primary should be the end of Mini Mike Bloomberg’s Joke of a campaign. After the worst debate performance in the history of presidential debates, Mini Mike now has Biden split up his very few voters, taking many away!

Democrats are working hard to destroy the name and reputation of Crazy Bernie Sanders, and take the nomination away from him!

Congratulations to Sleepy Joe Biden!

Tom Steyer who, other than Mini Mike Bloomberg, spent more dollars for NOTHING than any candidate in history, quit the race today proclaiming how thrilled he was to be a part of the the Democrat Clown Show. Go away Tom and save whatever little money you have left!

I would find it hard to believe that failed presidential candidates Tom Steyer, or Mini Mike Bloombeg, would contribute to the Democrat Party, even against me, after the way they have been treated - laughed at & mocked. The real politicians ate them up and spit them out!

Darat · 1st March 2020, 06:25 AM

Good to know what is keeping the POTUS occupied.

shemp · 1st March 2020, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Good to know what is keeping the POTUS occupied.

Yes, he has all of the U.S.'s problems solved. He even created a COVID-19 vaccine with nothing but prayer assistance from Mike Pence.

Captain_Swoop · 1st March 2020, 08:23 AM

Trump Tweets

The food is GREAT at Sammy’s Mexican Grill in Phoenix, Arizona. Congratulations to Betty & Jorge Rivas on doing such a wonderful job. I will try hard to stop by the next time I am in Phoenix. Support Sammy’s!

Darat · 1st March 2020, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Trump Tweets

The food is GREAT at Sammy’s Mexican Grill in Phoenix, Arizona. Congratulations to Betty & Jorge Rivas on doing such a wonderful job. I will try hard to stop by the next time I am in Phoenix. Support Sammy’s!

Really good knowing what is getting his attention at the moment....

Fast Eddie B · 1st March 2020, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Trump Tweets

The food is GREAT at Sammy’s Mexican Grill in Phoenix, Arizona. Congratulations to Betty & Jorge Rivas on doing such a wonderful job. I will try hard to stop by the next time I am in Phoenix. Support Sammy’s!

I can’t help but wonder what Nero would have been tweeting about if Twitter had existed back then!

Captain_Swoop · 1st March 2020, 08:47 AM

Trump Tweets

Mini Mike Bloomberg’s consultants and so-called “advisors”(how did that advice work out? Don’t ask!), are on the “gravy train” and all making a fortune for themselves pushing Mini hard, when they knew he never had what it takes. Don’t pay them anymore Mike, they led you down....

.....a very dark and lonely path! Your reputation will never be the same!

quadraginta · 1st March 2020, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by llwyd

Well, this is basically the best available option in a situation where all options suck. Best just to cut losses and keep a beady eye on the future Taliban Afghanistan - fine if they just opress and slaughter their own people, but won't threaten or attack the West.

Eighteen years of losses.

What a waste.

Ziggurat · 1st March 2020, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by quadraginta

It's probably just a result of old age reducing my memory to a shambles, since it's been eighteen years, but ...

Didn't we go to war with Afghanistan eighteen years ago because the Taliban was too untrustworthy to negotiate with?

No. We did negotiate with them. We went to war because we had demands we considered necessary that they were not willing to accept. They are not trustworthy, but that didn't stop us from negotiating.

slyjoe · 1st March 2020, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Trump Tweets

The food is GREAT at Sammy’s Mexican Grill in Phoenix, Arizona. Congratulations to Betty & Jorge Rivas on doing such a wonderful job. I will try hard to stop by the next time I am in Phoenix. Support Sammy’s!

Sammy's is in Tucson. They are getting backlash from supporting Trump. And Trump saying they are in Phoenix won't help their business.

Trebuchet · 1st March 2020, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Trump Tweets

Sleepy Joe Biden’s victory in the South Carolina Democrat Primary should be the end of Mini Mike Bloomberg’s Joke of a campaign. After the worst debate performance in the history of presidential debates, Mini Mike now has Biden split up his very few voters, taking many away!

Do you suppose he's even aware that Bloomberg wasn't even IN the SC primary?
Yeah, I know. Could have ended that sentence after the first six words.

Originally Posted by quadraginta

Eighteen years of losses.

What a waste.

I supported going into Afghanistan at the time. Still do, I guess. But W and the gang bungled the operation.

The Man · 1st March 2020, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B

I can’t help but wonder what Nero would have been tweeting about if Twitter had existed back then!

Nero Tweets

Fabius Maximus' orgy was the best orgy I've been to since Caecilia Publicus' shindig last Festival of Mars. We literally burned the place down. I hope they can rebuild it for the next time I'm in the Caelian district. Rebuild Fabius' bath house.

Darat · 1st March 2020, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Do you suppose he's even aware that Bloomberg wasn't even IN the SC primary?

Yeah, I know. Could have ended that sentence after the first six words.

I supported going into Afghanistan at the time. Still do, I guess. But W and the gang bungled the operation.

Going into Afghanistan to do what? Afghanistan is really only a country by dint of its borders on a map. In reality it has always been a loose federation of "war lords", trying to deal with it as political whole was never going to work. If we wanted to reshape Afghanistan it wasn't going to happen by military might, if you want to change the country the only way is economically.

And of course if the military response was appropriate for Afghanistan why wasn't it for Saudi Arabia, that country could have been "regiemed changed" by military might.

Trebuchet · 1st March 2020, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Going into Afghanistan to do what? Afghanistan is really only a country by dint of its borders on a map. In reality it has always been a loose federation of "war lords", trying to deal with it as political whole was never going to work. If we wanted to reshape Afghanistan it wasn't going to happen by military might, if you want to change the country the only way is economically.

And of course if the military response was appropriate for Afghanistan why wasn't it for Saudi Arabia, that country could have been "regiemed changed" by military might.

Bin Laden.

But I agree about Saudi, which would have been a far more appropriate target than Iraq.

Minoosh · 1st March 2020, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Going into Afghanistan to do what? Afghanistan is really only a country by dint of its borders on a map.

Going into Afghanistan to kick Taliban/Al Qaida ass. Afghanistan was the only state actor to be punished. To bad for ordinary Afghanis, but after 9/11 I understood the perception that a military response was required, and the Taliban were awful. I will never understand why the U.S. then started another totally optional war.

Trebuchet · 1st March 2020, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Minoosh

Going into Afghanistan to kick Taliban/Al Qaida ass. Afghanistan was the only state actor to be punished. To bad for ordinary Afghanis, but after 9/11 I understood the perception that a military response was required, and the Taliban were awful. I will never understand why the U.S. then started another totally optional war.

Neocons. It's their solution to everything.

Aridas · 1st March 2020, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Minoosh

Going into Afghanistan to kick Taliban/Al Qaida ass. Afghanistan was the only state actor to be punished. To bad for ordinary Afghanis, but after 9/11 I understood the perception that a military response was required, and the Taliban were awful. I will never understand why the U.S. then started another totally optional war.

I seem to recall seeing quotes from people who think that the US should just crush some weak country every decade or so just to remind the world how dominant we are.

Stacyhs · 1st March 2020, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Aridas

Fair enough. Maybe a look at this article might help with that?

That is a much better article...very scary and one based on truth.

I have always thought that fear is the basis of conservatism: fear of change (traditionalists), fear of 'different' (homophobia, bigotry, racism), fear of the unknown (again traditionalist/maintain the status quo). Liberalism is based on the opposite: embrace of change (progress), acceptance of 'different' (support of civil rights, gay marriage, etc), less fear of the unknown.

Authoritarianism is a reaction to fear of losing the status quo, fear of losing control, fear of those different to oneself.
We see this rise in authoritarianism in other countries like France (Le Pin), Spain (Vox) and Germany (AfD). Nationalism and authoritarianism seem to go hand in hand.

I agree that Trump tapped that pool of people. The rise and takeover of the GOP by the Tea Party ten years ago opened the door for Trump. The GOP lost its soul to these extremists.

Back in 2015-2016 I never thought Trump could win. His election came as a huge shock to me. I didn't think enough of the American people could embrace such a disgusting human being and vote for him. Sadly, I was proved wrong. But I think what makes me even sadder than Trump's election is that he may well be elected again after all he's proven himself to be.

Stacyhs · 1st March 2020, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Pixel42

The problem with the Lord Vetinari type of benevolent dictatorship, of course, is that it only works for a while, because the next one could be a lot worse. Bit like monarchy - fine when you've got a good king, not so fine when his idiot son succeeds him.

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a system that produces a reasonable leader every time. Democracy probably comes closest, but we have ample recent evidence that it also can fail spectacularly.

As the saying goes, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The more power someone has, the more ruthless they will become in order to keep that power.

There is no doubt in my mind that Trump would make himself dictator if he could. But I question whether there would be enough people to support him doing so even among Trump supporters. They may like his authoritarian style but to actually give up democracy for him? To take away their power to choose? I don't think so. But, I was proved wrong in 2016...

Stacyhs · 1st March 2020, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Trump Tweets

Sleepy Joe Biden’s victory in the South Carolina Democrat Primary should be the end of Mini Mike Bloomberg’s Joke of a campaign. After the worst debate performance in the history of presidential debates, Mini Mike now has Biden split up his very few voters, taking many away!

Democrats are working hard to destroy the name and reputation of Crazy Bernie Sanders, and take the nomination away from him!

Congratulations to Sleepy Joe Biden!

Tom Steyer who, other than Mini Mike Bloomberg, spent more dollars for NOTHING than any candidate in history, quit the race today proclaiming how thrilled he was to be a part of the the Democrat Clown Show. Go away Tom and save whatever little money you have left!

I would find it hard to believe that failed presidential candidates Tom Steyer, or Mini Mike Bloombeg, would contribute to the Democrat Party, even against me, after the way they have been treated - laughed at & mocked. The real politicians ate them up and spit them out!

Trump is working hard for Sanders. He obviously fears running against Biden more than Sanders. Trump is nothing if not obvious.

29th February 2020, 04:47 PM	#3841
Cain Straussian Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 14,298	It's sad to see so many Americans more concerned with their own lives, and not focused on keeping the economy great in order to ensure President Trump gets re-elected.
	__________________ April 13th, 2018: Ranb: I can't think of anything useful you contributed to a thread in the last few years.

29th February 2020, 06:11 PM	#3844
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 7,567	Originally Posted by Stacyhs You are talking civil freaking war. Revolution. As much as I detest McConnell, Graham, and their ilk, they are not going back a civil war in order to keep Trump in office. Give me a break. ...Honestly? It's hard to say. As Rove outlined long ago, the goal is to put the US under permanent Republican control. A dictatorship, in effect, one way or another. As long as they end up with the power, why would they care about how they got it? It's true that it's more likely that the "Boogaloo" will likely just involve a bunch of terrorist actions, though. Back to coronavirus, though. It's likely worth a reminder, given all these accusations of coronavirus being hyped up as a means to hurt Trump... that Republicans literally did that to Obama, especially Limbaugh (but Trump too!), with Ebola. Scum. Also, that presser hastily scheduled after the first confirmed coronavirus death in the US was... WTF? Cutting through the distractions, though the response of this administration is... Quote: Absolutely the only steps they’re adding is a “travel restriction” on Iran, that does nothing. And two “advisories” to people traveling to Italy and South Korea. Man. If only we had Warren. Or an administration that was willing to pay attention. She had a decent plan to work with shortly after coronavirus came to our attention.
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon. Last edited by Aridas; 29th February 2020 at 06:18 PM.

29th February 2020, 06:24 PM	#3845
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 31,391	The Left going "Okay politics isn't working so we're going to fight the Right like the Wolverines in Red Dawn" is like me not being able to beat Mike Tyson at chess so I just start punching him, I've just shifted the conflict into something where I'm even more disadvantaged. An armed conflict is probably the only thing the Left could against the Right that would be less effective then what they are doing now. Half of my Facebook feed is full of people who can't order pizza over the phone because of their "crippling social anxiety" talking about they are going Bajorian on the Cardassians if 2020 goes South.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate." Last edited by JoeMorgue; 29th February 2020 at 06:28 PM.

29th February 2020, 06:26 PM	#3846
TheSupermeerkat Muse Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 906	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue The Left going "Okay politics isn't working so we're going to fight the Right like the Wolverines in Red Dwn" is like me not being able to beat Mike Tyson at chess so I just start punching him, I've just shifted the conflict into something where I'm even more disadvantaged. An armed conflict is probably the only thing the Left could against the Right that would be less effective then what they are doing now. The left? Who? When?
TheSupermeerkat Muse Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 906

29th February 2020, 06:47 PM	#3847
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 31,260	The Trump administration has made a deal with the Taliban. Can you imagine the outcry if Obama did that?
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

29th February 2020, 04:56 PM	#3842
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,195	Originally Posted by shemp They probably wouldn't, but some of the idiot meathead armed-to-the-teeth followers might, not enough to take over, but perhaps enough to cause trouble and maybe kill some innocent people. I don't really think Trump would try that. He's more likely to pardon himself for anything he might have done, then go home and try to rally his followers for another run in 2024. THAT is entirely possible. He's got some real crrrraaaaaazzy cult followers.

29th February 2020, 05:02 PM	#3843
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,195	Originally Posted by Cain It's sad to see so many Americans more concerned with their own lives, and not focused on keeping the economy great in order to ensure President Trump gets re-elected. So many Democrats spreading the Corona virus hoax just in order to tank Wall Street. Sad! #demhoaxwitchhunt

29th February 2020, 06:59 PM	#3848
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 7,567	Originally Posted by Trebuchet The Trump administration has made a deal with the Taliban. Can you imagine the outcry if Obama did that? You know... if that didn't apply to about half the things that the Trump Administration does or more, it might be more impactful. As I've said before, though, the stuff that Trump did in the first month or two alone would have been enough for the Republicans to impeach him if he was a Democrat - and Democrats would probably have supported such. Things have gone downhill from there. Just about everyone in the US is being harmed by the Trump Administration, in one way or many now, after all, and pretty much all our allies have been harmed by the Trump Administration.
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

29th February 2020, 07:05 PM	#3849
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,195	Originally Posted by Aridas ...Honestly? It's hard to say. As Rove outlined long ago, the goal is to put the US under permanent Republican control. A dictatorship, in effect, one way or another. As long as they end up with the power, why would they care about how they got it? It's true that it's more likely that the "Boogaloo" will likely just involve a bunch of terrorist actions, though. Back to coronavirus, though. It's likely worth a reminder, given all these accusations of coronavirus being hyped up as a means to hurt Trump... that Republicans literally did that to Obama, especially Limbaugh (but Trump too!), with Ebola. Scum. Also, that presser hastily scheduled after the first confirmed coronavirus death in the US was... WTF? Cutting through the distractions, though the response of this administration is... Man. If only we had Warren. Or an administration that was willing to pay attention. She had a decent plan to work with shortly after coronavirus came to our attention. I'd like to see exactly what Rove said. Can you provide it? There may be some in the GOP who would like to take permanent control, but I do believe that most would not support such a takeover. Nor do I think the American people, GOP or not, would support such a move. Not even most Trumpers. I like Warren. As it looks like a Bide/Sanders race, I'd love to see Warren as VP...preferably a Biden-Warren ticket.

29th February 2020, 07:21 PM	#3850
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,713	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue The Left going "Okay politics isn't working so we're going to fight the Right like the Wolverines in Red Dawn" is like me not being able to beat Mike Tyson at chess so I just start punching him, I've just shifted the conflict into something where I'm even more disadvantaged. An armed conflict is probably the only thing the Left could against the Right that would be less effective then what they are doing now. Half of my Facebook feed is full of people who can't order pizza over the phone because of their "crippling social anxiety" talking about they are going Bajorian on the Cardassians if 2020 goes South. No wonder you have strange notions of "The Left" if you believe your "Facebook feed" (whatever that is) is representative of it. Perhaps you shouldn't take an internet thing for teenagers seriously? And second, the Bajorans achieved nothing against the Cardassians, it took a war with the Federation to free Bajor, they'd never have done it alone. And even then it was Federation protection that kept it free, and Federation intervention that freed it again from its dalliance with the Dominion.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

29th February 2020, 08:50 PM	#3851
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 7,567	Originally Posted by Stacyhs I'd like to see exactly what Rove said. Can you provide it? To be more fair on that than I probably need to be, this was around the turn of the century, with Rove officially trying to do it in a more democratic way - by building a ideological small government coalition that was a significant majority in size. Less officially, Rove and the rest of those he was working with knew that that would be a pipe dream while people still liked things like, say, social security. So a permanent Republican majority would fairly certainly have to be achieved via suppressing the votes of undesirable voters again, like, for example, African Americans and women had been for... most of the time that the US has existed. For context, IIRC, in Virginia at the time of school desegregation, to have a pretty much permanent majority required gaining about... 10-20% of the official potential vote. Originally Posted by Stacyhs There may be some in the GOP who would like to take permanent control, but I do believe that most would not support such a takeover. Nor do I think the American people, GOP or not, would support such a move. Not even most Trumpers. I think that you might be surprised, then, at the numbers. "Most," maybe. Yet, even so, a far, far too significant minority, though, and a population that is far too influenced by the right-wing disinformation machine. Going further, the constant, strategic, and sustained utter misuse of words like "coup" by Trump and the GOP should be particularly concerning, given their history of accusing Democrats of all kinds of things that they turn around and then do themselves with no consequences at all and a ready "Democrats are hypocrites, dismiss them" defense once the outrage dies down. Originally Posted by Stacyhs I like Warren. As it looks like a Bide/Sanders race, I'd love to see Warren as VP...preferably a Biden-Warren ticket. I'm... okay with Warren being VP. Not as good as her being President, of course, but a Biden/Warren ticket would likely be relatively unifying.
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

29th February 2020, 09:44 PM	#3852
newyorkguy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: NY Posts: 11,566	Originally Posted by Stacyhs I'd like to see exactly what Rove said. Can you provide it?... I recall reading about that. That the Republicans would win such substantial majorities that they'd work to institute one party rule. Either Rove or Gingrich spoke about that, how it would really benefit this society. Be so much more efficient. I don't have a reference either, and I looked recently. Probably not something the GOP wants to discuss much in public. Related- Trump supporter Rupert Murdoch believed authoritarian states can work. That I have a cite for. A New Yorker magazine piece from twenty-five years ago: Quote: In April of 1994, Murdoch removed the BBC from the Star network in China and replaced it with Chinese-language films. “The BBC was driving them nuts,” Murdoch says. “It’s not worth it.” The Chinese government is “scared to death of what happened in Tiananmen Square,” he says. “The truth is—and we Americans don’t like to admit it—that authoritarian countries can work. There may have been human-rights abuses in Chile. But that country under Pinochet raised living standards. And now it has a democracy. The best thing you can do in China is engage the Chinese and wait.” Link

1st March 2020, 12:28 AM	#3853
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,195	Originally Posted by Aridas To be more fair on that than I probably need to be, this was around the turn of the century, with Rove officially trying to do it in a more democratic way - by building a ideological small government coalition that was a significant majority in size. Less officially, Rove and the rest of those he was working with knew that that would be a pipe dream while people still liked things like, say, social security. So a permanent Republican majority would fairly certainly have to be achieved via suppressing the votes of undesirable voters again, like, for example, African Americans and women had been for... most of the time that the US has existed. For context, IIRC, in Virginia at the time of school desegregation, to have a pretty much permanent majority required gaining about... 10-20% of the official potential vote. I think that you might be surprised, then, at the numbers. "Most," maybe. Yet, even so, a far, far too significant minority, though, and a population that is far too influenced by the right-wing disinformation machine. Going further, the constant, strategic, and sustained utter misuse of words like "coup" by Trump and the GOP should be particularly concerning, given their history of accusing Democrats of all kinds of things that they turn around and then do themselves with no consequences at all and a ready "Democrats are hypocrites, dismiss them" defense once the outrage dies down. I'm... okay with Warren being VP. Not as good as her being President, of course, but a Biden/Warren ticket would likely be relatively unifying. My problem with your link is that it does not define what they mean by a "strong leader". They do say this: Quote: According to a March 13 poll from the Democracy Fund Voter Study Group, one in four Americans think it would be good to have a “strong leader” who does not have to bother with Congress and elections. Yet nowhere in the article is the highlighted part included in a "strong leader" definition. In fact, no definition of what they mean by that term is given. The polls only say "strong leader" with no mention of that leader being an authoritarian. A "strong leader" can be anything from a very pro-democratic, Constitution supporting person of strong character and leadership abilities to a dictator. When I think of a strong leader, an authoritarian/dictator does not come to mind. I'd prefer Warren at the top of the ticket, too, but that isn't going to happen. Chances are it's going to be Sanders or Biden. I don't like Sanders at all.
	Last edited by Stacyhs; 1st March 2020 at 12:30 AM.

1st March 2020, 01:13 AM	#3854
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 87,744	Originally Posted by Bob001 We don't know if Fauci has "caved in." We don't know if Pence et al. have told him what to say or prevented him from telling the truth, only that they want his public remarks cleared first, which is not all that unusual in a government bureaucracy. Fauci is about as close to a hero as the medical world has produced. Chances are he sees his role as trying to do good in a crisis despite obstacles. For him to quit in protest would only mean that a Repub hack would be put in his place. Not good for the country, and he knows it. And I note that he didn't have any problem contradicting Trump directly about how long it will take to produce a vaccine with Trump standing next to him. It's way too early to say he's caved. Fauci had the talk shows scheduled then cancelled them all when Pence was assigned to censor people. He did go on one show yesterday. He avoided answering a political question. That's fine.

1st March 2020, 01:17 AM	#3855
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 87,744	Originally Posted by slyjoe I don't know if the doctor is a civil servant or if he can be fired at will by the administration. He doesn't sound like an admin appointee, so I'm not sure Trump can just fire him. Pretty sure Trump can replace him. He installed a new head of CDC. But Fauci said this: RCP: NIH's Dr. Fauci: "I've Never Been Muzzled" By The Trump Administration; "A Real Misrepresentation" By Media

1st March 2020, 01:20 AM	#3856
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 7,567	Originally Posted by Stacyhs My problem with your link is that it does not define what they mean by a "strong leader". They do say this: Yet nowhere in the article is the highlighted part included in a "strong leader" definition. In fact, no definition of what they mean by that term is given. The polls only say "strong leader" with no mention of that leader being an authoritarian. A "strong leader" can be anything from a very pro-democratic, Constitution supporting person of strong character and leadership abilities to a dictator. When I think of a strong leader, an authoritarian/dictator does not come to mind. Fair enough. Maybe a look at this article might help with that?
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

1st March 2020, 01:40 AM	#3857
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,852	The Trump Deal with the Taliban is exactly like the Trade Deal with China - a vague commitment to do something in the future if things go a certain way. I guess it's progress to talk at all, but at this point it is little more than PR.
	__________________ The things that you're liable To read in the Bible It ain't necessarily so

1st March 2020, 02:50 AM	#3858
Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat Join Date: May 2004 Location: Malmesbury, UK Posts: 13,145	Originally Posted by Stacyhs A "strong leader" can be anything from a very pro-democratic, Constitution supporting person of strong character and leadership abilities to a dictator. The problem with the Lord Vetinari type of benevolent dictatorship, of course, is that it only works for a while, because the next one could be a lot worse. Bit like monarchy - fine when you've got a good king, not so fine when his idiot son succeeds him. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a system that produces a reasonable leader every time. Democracy probably comes closest, but we have ample recent evidence that it also can fail spectacularly.
	__________________ "If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett

1st March 2020, 02:58 AM	#3859
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 26,244	Originally Posted by Trebuchet The Trump administration has made a deal with the Taliban. Can you imagine the outcry if Obama did that? It's probably just a result of old age reducing my memory to a shambles, since it's been eighteen years, but ... Didn't we go to war with Afghanistan eighteen years ago because the Taliban was too untrustworthy to negotiate with? Has eighteen years of war made them more trustworthy? I mean obviously we are negotiating from a position of strength, since they're staying ... in power ... and we're the ones who want to bug out (/sarcasm), but how is that fundamentally different from the situation all those years ago when we decided that war was the only possible alternative, since they couldn't be trusted to bargain in good faith?
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

1st March 2020, 05:50 AM	#3860
llwyd Muse Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 760	Well, this is basically the best available option in a situation where all options suck. Best just to cut losses and keep a beady eye on the future Taliban Afghanistan - fine if they just opress and slaughter their own people, but won't threaten or attack the West.
llwyd Muse Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 760

1st March 2020, 06:14 AM	#3861
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 32,596	Trump Tweets Sleepy Joe Biden’s victory in the South Carolina Democrat Primary should be the end of Mini Mike Bloomberg’s Joke of a campaign. After the worst debate performance in the history of presidential debates, Mini Mike now has Biden split up his very few voters, taking many away! Democrats are working hard to destroy the name and reputation of Crazy Bernie Sanders, and take the nomination away from him! Congratulations to Sleepy Joe Biden! Tom Steyer who, other than Mini Mike Bloomberg, spent more dollars for NOTHING than any candidate in history, quit the race today proclaiming how thrilled he was to be a part of the the Democrat Clown Show. Go away Tom and save whatever little money you have left! I would find it hard to believe that failed presidential candidates Tom Steyer, or Mini Mike Bloombeg, would contribute to the Democrat Party, even against me, after the way they have been treated - laughed at & mocked. The real politicians ate them up and spit them out!

1st March 2020, 06:25 AM	#3862
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,697	Good to know what is keeping the POTUS occupied.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

1st March 2020, 08:01 AM	#3863
shemp a flimsy character...perfidious and despised Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: People's Democratic Republic of Planet X Posts: 40,746	Originally Posted by Darat Good to know what is keeping the POTUS occupied. Yes, he has all of the U.S.'s problems solved. He even created a COVID-19 vaccine with nothing but prayer assistance from Mike Pence.
	__________________ If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set. "...just as a magnet attracts iron filings, ~~Trump~~ shemp attracts, and is attracted to, louts." - George Will "[shemp is] a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality." - Shakespeare

1st March 2020, 08:23 AM	#3864
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 32,596	Trump Tweets The food is GREAT at Sammy’s Mexican Grill in Phoenix, Arizona. Congratulations to Betty & Jorge Rivas on doing such a wonderful job. I will try hard to stop by the next time I am in Phoenix. Support Sammy’s!

1st March 2020, 08:25 AM	#3865
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,697	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Trump Tweets The food is GREAT at Sammy’s Mexican Grill in Phoenix, Arizona. Congratulations to Betty & Jorge Rivas on doing such a wonderful job. I will try hard to stop by the next time I am in Phoenix. Support Sammy’s! Really good knowing what is getting his attention at the moment....
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

1st March 2020, 08:27 AM	#3866
Fast Eddie B Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA Posts: 6,783	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Trump Tweets The food is GREAT at Sammy’s Mexican Grill in Phoenix, Arizona. Congratulations to Betty & Jorge Rivas on doing such a wonderful job. I will try hard to stop by the next time I am in Phoenix. Support Sammy’s! I can’t help but wonder what Nero would have been tweeting about if Twitter had existed back then!

1st March 2020, 08:47 AM	#3867
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 32,596	Trump Tweets Mini Mike Bloomberg’s consultants and so-called “advisors”(how did that advice work out? Don’t ask!), are on the “gravy train” and all making a fortune for themselves pushing Mini hard, when they knew he never had what it takes. Don’t pay them anymore Mike, they led you down.... .....a very dark and lonely path! Your reputation will never be the same!

1st March 2020, 08:47 AM	#3868
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 26,244	Originally Posted by llwyd Well, this is basically the best available option in a situation where all options suck. Best just to cut losses and keep a beady eye on the future Taliban Afghanistan - fine if they just opress and slaughter their own people, but won't threaten or attack the West. Eighteen years of losses. What a waste.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

1st March 2020, 08:48 AM	#3869
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,613	Originally Posted by quadraginta It's probably just a result of old age reducing my memory to a shambles, since it's been eighteen years, but ... Didn't we go to war with Afghanistan eighteen years ago because the Taliban was too untrustworthy to negotiate with? No. We did negotiate with them. We went to war because we had demands we considered necessary that they were not willing to accept. They are not trustworthy, but that didn't stop us from negotiating.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

1st March 2020, 08:52 AM	#3870
slyjoe Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Near Harmonica Virgins, AZ Posts: 2,588	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Trump Tweets The food is GREAT at Sammy’s Mexican Grill in Phoenix, Arizona. Congratulations to Betty & Jorge Rivas on doing such a wonderful job. I will try hard to stop by the next time I am in Phoenix. Support Sammy’s! Sammy's is in Tucson. They are getting backlash from supporting Trump. And Trump saying they are in Phoenix won't help their business.
	__________________ "You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade

1st March 2020, 08:55 AM	#3871
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 31,260	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Trump Tweets Sleepy Joe Biden’s victory in the South Carolina Democrat Primary should be the end of Mini Mike Bloomberg’s Joke of a campaign. After the worst debate performance in the history of presidential debates, Mini Mike now has Biden split up his very few voters, taking many away! Do you suppose he's even aware that Bloomberg wasn't even IN the SC primary? Yeah, I know. Could have ended that sentence after the first six words. Originally Posted by quadraginta Eighteen years of losses. What a waste. I supported going into Afghanistan at the time. Still do, I guess. But W and the gang bungled the operation.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

1st March 2020, 09:14 AM	#3872
The Man Unbanned zombie poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Poughkeepsie, NY Posts: 15,249	Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B I can’t help but wonder what Nero would have been tweeting about if Twitter had existed back then! Nero Tweets Fabius Maximus' orgy was the best orgy I've been to since Caecilia Publicus' shindig last Festival of Mars. We literally burned the place down. I hope they can rebuild it for the next time I'm in the Caelian district. Rebuild Fabius' bath house.
	__________________ BRAINZZZZZZZZ

1st March 2020, 09:49 AM	#3873
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,697	Originally Posted by Trebuchet Do you suppose he's even aware that Bloomberg wasn't even IN the SC primary? Yeah, I know. Could have ended that sentence after the first six words. I supported going into Afghanistan at the time. Still do, I guess. But W and the gang bungled the operation. Going into Afghanistan to do what? Afghanistan is really only a country by dint of its borders on a map. In reality it has always been a loose federation of "war lords", trying to deal with it as political whole was never going to work. If we wanted to reshape Afghanistan it wasn't going to happen by military might, if you want to change the country the only way is economically. And of course if the military response was appropriate for Afghanistan why wasn't it for Saudi Arabia, that country could have been "regiemed changed" by military might.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

1st March 2020, 09:53 AM	#3874
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 31,260	Originally Posted by Darat Going into Afghanistan to do what? Afghanistan is really only a country by dint of its borders on a map. In reality it has always been a loose federation of "war lords", trying to deal with it as political whole was never going to work. If we wanted to reshape Afghanistan it wasn't going to happen by military might, if you want to change the country the only way is economically. And of course if the military response was appropriate for Afghanistan why wasn't it for Saudi Arabia, that country could have been "regiemed changed" by military might. Bin Laden. But I agree about Saudi, which would have been a far more appropriate target than Iraq.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

1st March 2020, 10:05 AM	#3875
Minoosh Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 12,326	Originally Posted by Darat Going into Afghanistan to do what? Afghanistan is really only a country by dint of its borders on a map. Going into Afghanistan to kick Taliban/Al Qaida ass. Afghanistan was the only state actor to be punished. To bad for ordinary Afghanis, but after 9/11 I understood the perception that a military response was required, and the Taliban were awful. I will never understand why the U.S. then started another totally optional war.