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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 1st March 2020, 12:45 PM   #3881
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
I seem to recall seeing quotes from people who think that the US should just crush some weak country every decade or so just to remind the world how dominant we are.
But is Afghanistan really the best place to demonstrate one’s dominance? It is not a place for an advanced mechanized military to show its superiority.
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Old 1st March 2020, 01:01 PM   #3882
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
But is Afghanistan really the best place to demonstrate one’s dominance? It is not a place for an advanced mechanized military to show its superiority.
In the abstract, no, but after 9/11 the situation wasn't abstract. In that one instance I was fine with regime change, even knowing innocent people would die. But to half-ass it by starting a whole 'nother war? Unforgivable.

Shortly after 9/11 an Afghan writer gained fame by pointing out that bombing Afghanistan into the Stone Age would be redundant.

On the other hand, the country has proven to be very resistant to conquest.
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Old 1st March 2020, 01:02 PM   #3883
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
As the saying goes, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The more power someone has, the more ruthless they will become in order to keep that power.

There is no doubt in my mind that Trump would make himself dictator if he could. But I question whether there would be enough people to support him doing so even among Trump supporters. They may like his authoritarian style but to actually give up democracy for him? To take away their power to choose? I don't think so. But, I was proved wrong in 2016...
I think what Trump wants is to not have to sit through policy meeting and not have to read security briefings while still being the center of attention.
Wait, now that I think about it, being dictiator satisfies his goals. He holds rallies. He insults world leaders to their faces. He is surrounded by fawning sycophants. He censors news outlets. He locks up his enemies. He enriches himself at the country’s expense. He can always blame someone else for his f-ups. He can prevent reporters from asking hard questions.
Being a dictator checks all the boxes on his wish list.
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Old 1st March 2020, 02:04 PM   #3884
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
In the abstract, no, but after 9/11 the situation wasn't abstract. In that one instance I was fine with regime change, even knowing innocent people would die. But to half-ass it by starting a whole 'nother war? Unforgivable.

Shortly after 9/11 an Afghan writer gained fame by pointing out that bombing Afghanistan into the Stone Age would be redundant.

On the other hand, the country has proven to be very resistant to conquest.
The Bush admin learned nothing from the Russians in Afghanistan.
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Old 1st March 2020, 02:18 PM   #3885
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
I think what Trump wants is to not have to sit through policy meeting and not have to read security briefings while still being the center of attention.
Wait, now that I think about it, being dictiator satisfies his goals. He holds rallies. He insults world leaders to their faces. He is surrounded by fawning sycophants. He censors news outlets. He locks up his enemies. He enriches himself at the country’s expense. He can always blame someone else for his f-ups. He can prevent reporters from asking hard questions.
Being a dictator checks all the boxes on his wish list.
Absolutely. Trump didn't want to be president. He didn't want to govern; he wanted all the attention that running would bring. But once elected, his narcissism had never been fed so well. The rallies, the adoring crowds, the power, the sycophants are like opium to him.
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Old 1st March 2020, 02:21 PM   #3886
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The Bush admin learned nothing from the Russians in Afghanistan.
For me it's not even that. IMO attacking Afghanistan was justified as they had by proxy attacked us. Iraq on the other hand was contained. Not pretty, but a functioning state whose war-making capabilities were much diminished.

Afghanistan IMO might have worked out, or at least might have had a chance to, if the U.S. had stayed focused.

To bring it back to Trump, he at least hadn't started any wars. There's very little I'll defend him for, but he's avoided that. So far.
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Old 1st March 2020, 02:42 PM   #3887
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Trump Tweets

“Who better than @RepRatcliffe, who got to the bottom of the FISAGATE & RUSSIAGATE HOAX. It makes a lot of sense to put John Ratcliffe in there (DNI).The Senate should quickly approve him. @DevinNunes @MariaBartiromo John will do a great job for the American people!

People are disgusted and embarrassed by the Fake News Media, as headed by the @nytimes, @washingtonpost, @comcast & MSDNC, @ABC, @CBSNews and more. They no longer believe what they see and read, and for good reason. Fake News is, indeed, THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE!

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Old 1st March 2020, 02:57 PM   #3888
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

People are disgusted and embarrassed by the Fake News Media, as headed by the @nytimes, @washingtonpost, @comcast & MSDNC, @ABC, @CBSNews and more. They no longer believe what they see and read, and for good reason. Fake News is, indeed, THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE!
As his list gets longer I hope a few supporters are realizing there's a simpler explanation for why Trump's take on reality is so different from that of most major media outlets.
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Old 1st March 2020, 03:04 PM   #3889
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
As his list gets longer I hope a few supporters are realizing there's a simpler explanation for why Trump's take on reality is so different from that of most major media outlets.
They don't. They view those outlets as evil, because they don't fit their world view. Trump is trying to turn the populous against the media, and to have them trust only the state media.
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Old 1st March 2020, 03:37 PM   #3890
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Trump is trying to turn the populous against the media, and to have them trust only the state media.
What, PBS?
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Old 1st March 2020, 03:54 PM   #3891
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
For me it's not even that. IMO attacking Afghanistan was justified as they had by proxy attacked us. Iraq on the other hand was contained. Not pretty, but a functioning state whose war-making capabilities were much diminished.

Afghanistan IMO might have worked out, or at least might have had a chance to, if the U.S. had stayed focused.
Given how botched the operations on the ground were, with regards to the civilian population, I'm honestly not too sure about that.

I remember reading an account from an officer, who went into several small villages, months after the invasion, and found a populace that was still largely bewildered as to why the US and their allies had invaded their country. In most of those places, he was the first person to tell them about 9/11.

And that's before you get to the really dark side of the occupation, ie. the black sites and what went on there.
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Old 1st March 2020, 04:00 PM   #3892
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
What, PBS?

For some reason, you are very good at playing ignorant.

No, not PBS. Fox News.
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Old 1st March 2020, 04:00 PM   #3893
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Sammy's is in Tucson. They are getting backlash from supporting Trump. And Trump saying they are in Phoenix won't help their business.
Maybe that's a saving grace, they can claim Trump was talking about a different Sammy's.
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Old 1st March 2020, 04:02 PM   #3894
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Things I don't understand: Why does he think it's a good idea to do this to himself? And why doesn't someone tell him?
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Old 1st March 2020, 04:04 PM   #3895
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
For me it's not even that. IMO attacking Afghanistan was justified as they had by proxy attacked us. Iraq on the other hand was contained. Not pretty, but a functioning state whose war-making capabilities were much diminished.

Afghanistan IMO might have worked out, or at least might have had a chance to, if the U.S. had stayed focused.

To bring it back to Trump, he at least hadn't started any wars. There's very little I'll defend him for, but he's avoided that. So far.
Actually the US by proxy attacked the US. The attack was by US residents, it was mostly planned in the US and launched from the US. There is no evidence that the Taliban or other Afghan government was aware of the planned attack before hand. None of the attackers were Afghanis nor was any funding from Afghanistan. None of those who were participants in planning but did not participate in the attack were Afghanis.

At best you can argue that when the US claimed OBL was responsible (something that some still dispute even on this forum), the Taliban did not immediately move to arrest him and hand him to US authorities. (It is arguable whether he Taliban had the systems in place to do so, and whether the US had provided evidence supporting a prime facie case for extradition.)
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Old 1st March 2020, 04:17 PM   #3896
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It's going to be interesting when the epidemic Trump only poorly responded to breaks out in DC.

No doubt they all think there will be a vaccine before it gets to them. Maybe, maybe not.
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Old 1st March 2020, 04:27 PM   #3897
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
Given how botched the operations on the ground were, with regards to the civilian population, I'm honestly not too sure about that.

I remember reading an account from an officer, who went into several small villages, months after the invasion, and found a populace that was still largely bewildered as to why the US and their allies had invaded their country. In most of those places, he was the first person to tell them about 9/11.

And that's before you get to the really dark side of the occupation, ie. the black sites and what went on there.
"Nation building" has a bad reputation and I don't know if it would have worked but any chance of that was wiped out when Bush decided to invade Iraq.

WTF was he thinking? Rhetorical.
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Old 1st March 2020, 04:28 PM   #3898
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

“Who better than @RepRatcliffe, who got to the bottom of the FISAGATE & RUSSIAGATE HOAX. It makes a lot of sense to put John Ratcliffe in there (DNI).The Senate should quickly approve him. @DevinNunes @MariaBartiromo John will do a great job for the American people!

People are disgusted and embarrassed by the Fake News Media, as headed by the @nytimes, @washingtonpost, @comcast & MSDNC, @ABC, @CBSNews and more. They no longer believe what they see and read, and for good reason. Fake News is, indeed, THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE!
Trump is keeping some mighty interesting company:

Quote:
When Amnesty International released a report about prison deaths in Syria, the Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad, retorted that “we are living in a fake-news era.” President Nicolás Maduro of Venezuela, who is steadily rolling back democracy in his country, blamed the global media for “lots of false versions, lots of lies,” saying “this is what we call ‘fake news’ today.”

In Myanmar, where international observers accuse the military of conducting a genocidal campaign against the Rohingya Muslims, a security official told The New York Times that “there is no such thing as Rohingya,” adding: “It is fake news.” In Russia, a Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, Maria Zakharova, told a CNN reporter to “stop spreading lies and fake news.” Her ministry now uses a big red stamp, “FAKE,” on its website to label news stories it dislikes.
Quote:
In countries where press freedom is restricted or under considerable threat — including Russia, China, Turkey, Libya, Poland, Hungary, Thailand, Somalia and others — political leaders have invoked “fake news” as justification for beating back media scrutiny.


Quote:
Like Erdoğan, Trump casts himself as a man of the people, a populist nationalist who has repeatedly attacked the "elite media." Like Erdoğan, Trump has tried to discredit specific news outlets and attacked what he has said is biased or unfavorable journalism.

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Old 1st March 2020, 04:54 PM   #3899
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Actually the US by proxy attacked the US. The attack was by US residents, it was mostly planned in the US and launched from the US. There is no evidence that the Taliban or other Afghan government was aware of the planned attack before hand. None of the attackers were Afghanis nor was any funding from Afghanistan. None of those who were participants in planning but did not participate in the attack were Afghanis.

At best you can argue that when the US claimed OBL was responsible (something that some still dispute even on this forum), the Taliban did not immediately move to arrest him and hand him to US authorities. (It is arguable whether he Taliban had the systems in place to do so, and whether the US had provided evidence supporting a prime facie case for extradition.)
The Taliban knew who bin Laden was and what he was about. They used each other. I don't fault the U.S. for its initial response, but things got out of control pretty quickly.
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Old 1st March 2020, 05:47 PM   #3900
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
For some reason, you are very good at playing ignorant.

No, not PBS. Fox News.
Not Fox news. I'm reminded that Trump was looking to st art his own News Service before the election cycle. I suspect he wants to be the only true news source.
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Old 1st March 2020, 06:34 PM   #3901
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
For some reason, you are very good at playing ignorant.

No, not PBS. Fox News.
Fox News isn't state media.

Unfortunately it's quite plausible that you weren't playing.

Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Not Fox news. I'm reminded that Trump was looking to st art his own News Service before the election cycle. I suspect he wants to be the only true news source.
That was his plan if he had lost, and in that case it wouldn't have been state media since he wouldn't be part of the state. And since he won, he hasn't pursued that plan, so... still no state media.
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Old 1st March 2020, 06:45 PM   #3902
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Trump News would probably go bankrupt.
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Old 1st March 2020, 06:47 PM   #3903
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Neocons. It's their solution to everything.
So, how did that PNAC go? Not only did it start pointless wars but it is partly the reason Trump was elected.
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Old 1st March 2020, 06:49 PM   #3904
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Fox News isn't state media.

Unfortunately it's quite plausible that you weren't playing.

Not de jure but de facto, yes it is.

I'm beginning to believe you are not playing. Chronic denial can do that to a person.
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Old 1st March 2020, 06:50 PM   #3905
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It's going to be interesting when the epidemic Trump only poorly responded to breaks out in DC.

No doubt they all think there will be a vaccine before it gets to them. Maybe, maybe not.
DC has a majority minority population. Not a problem for Trump. Those N-words deserved it.

Of course, if it hits the wealthier suburbs that might be different.
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Old 1st March 2020, 06:52 PM   #3906
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Not de jure but de facto, yes it is.



I'm beginning to believe you are not playing. Chronic denial can do that to a person.
Lou Dobbs uses the hashtag MAGA.
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Old 1st March 2020, 06:54 PM   #3907
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Fox News isn't state media.

Unfortunately it's quite plausible that you weren't playing.



That was his plan if he had lost, and in that case it wouldn't have been state media since he wouldn't be part of the state. And since he won, he hasn't pursued that plan, so... still no state media.
He's calling thew news he doesn't like The Enemy of the people. I'm astounded that you cannot see how bad that is.

He either wants to make Fox news the official news of the state, or he wants to start a news source that is.
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Old 1st March 2020, 07:46 PM   #3908
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Fox opinion programs are indistinguishable from State propaganda - low on information, high on emotional support, and almost unique in access to this administration.
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Old 1st March 2020, 09:04 PM   #3909
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
DC has a majority minority population. Not a problem for Trump. Those N-words deserved it.

Of course, if it hits the wealthier suburbs that might be different.
I wasn't talking about it as an outbreak in DC proper, it's almost disconnected from the actual capital area.

I meant it as an outbreak among the legislators, the ones who do indeed believe they are above it all.

Think about it, as it is our top Democratic candidates are out in the crowds shaking hands. I'm worried it might wipe out the whole slew of elderly candidates.

I don't know how paranoid Trump is about those crowds at his rallies but his people, the secret service, the campaign staff, there are bridges between Trump and those crowds.

And there's the denial, anyone ill in the White House probably has the flu, but if they don't, it's likely they they are coming to work sick, touching things, making the food. More bridges to Trump.

We don't have meds for this yet. All those well off legislators feel immune to the diseases of the common people. Doctors will treat them so "What—me worry?"

It would spread quickly though Congress before they realized someone among them was contagious.

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Old 1st March 2020, 09:17 PM   #3910
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I wasn't talking about it as an outbreak in DC proper, it's almost disconnected from the actual capital area.

I meant it as an outbreak among the legislators, the ones who do indeed believe they are above it all.

Think about it, as it is our top Democratic candidates are out in the crowds shaking hands. I'm worried it might wipe out the whole slew of elderly candidates.

I don't know how paranoid Trump is about those crowds at his rallies but his people, the secret service, the campaign staff, there are bridges between Trump and those crowds.

And there's the denial, anyone ill in the White House probably has the flu, but if they don't, it's likely they they are coming to work sick, touching things, making the food. More bridges to Trump.

We don't have meds for this yet. All those well off legislators feel immune to the diseases of the common people. Doctors will treat them so "What—me worry?"

It would spread quickly though Congress before they realized someone among them was contagious.
https://twitter.com/jheil/status/1233077802553028609

Here's VP Pence (you know, the guy leading the Coronavirus response) wiping his nose with his hand and then using that hand to shake hands with all the doctors working on the problem.
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Old 1st March 2020, 09:22 PM   #3911
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
The CDC was good at what they do... I guess the big question is are they still good, after 3 years of Trump. Not saying that there aren't capable people, but between budget cuts, various political appointments of less-capable people, and an administration that has an anti-science mind-set, their ability to respond may be hampered.

As for the "other agencies abroad", you have:
- China, which is more or less ground zero, which is currently being criticized for not being open about the epidemic
- North Korea isn't claiming any infections, even though it should be affected, given how close it is to China.
You really can't say that about North Korea. It's proximity to China is almost irrelevant. NK is like an open air prison. Travel is limited substantially.
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Old 1st March 2020, 09:59 PM   #3912
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
https://twitter.com/jheil/status/1233077802553028609

Here's VP Pence (you know, the guy leading the Coronavirus response) wiping his nose with his hand and then using that hand to shake hands with all the doctors working on the problem.
I didn't watch the video so I don't know what The PDJT was talking about at the time, but from a psychological standpoint, the nose-wiping gesture indicates discomfort and self-awareness (when it's not medically indicated).
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Old 1st March 2020, 11:30 PM   #3913
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Trump News would probably go bankrupt.
Very likely.
But it would be a Trump-style bankruptcy. The investors would lose money and President Trump would make money.

Again, bankrupteur really needs to be a word.
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Old 1st March 2020, 11:32 PM   #3914
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
https://twitter.com/jheil/status/1233077802553028609

Here's VP Pence (you know, the guy leading the Coronavirus response) wiping his nose with his hand and then using that hand to shake hands with all the doctors working on the problem.
Oh gawd!

On a lesser stage relevant to the thread, Pope Francis coughs right into his hand during a speech from the Vatican balcony a day or so ago.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 1st March 2020 at 11:41 PM.
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Old 1st March 2020, 11:37 PM   #3915
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
https://twitter.com/jheil/status/1233077802553028609

Here's VP Pence (you know, the guy leading the Coronavirus response) wiping his nose with his hand and then using that hand to shake hands with all the doctors working on the problem.
It looks like he wipes with his left hand then shakes with his right, but that left hand still touches everyone like wiping your boogers on everyone.

No matter, he's still blatantly unaware of what he did.

This is why I've said all the legislators are mulling around while the time bomb is ticking. They so don't get it.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 1st March 2020 at 11:40 PM.
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Old 2nd March 2020, 02:58 AM   #3916
Aridas
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It's going to be interesting when the epidemic Trump only poorly responded to breaks out in DC.

No doubt they all think there will be a vaccine before it gets to them. Maybe, maybe not.
Well... that time may not be far away. There's a report, now that there's been testing allowed to be done, that it's been in Washington state for at least six weeks.

On a bit of a bright side in the news, though, small as it is...

Federal judge rules that Ken Cuccinelli was unlawfully appointed

And, given that, some of the bad policy he's put into place has been officially negated. Whether the people implementing the policies will actually stop, though, is another matter entirely.
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Old 2nd March 2020, 04:08 AM   #3917
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That was his plan if he had lost...
Which, of course, was his intention as he had no plan for if he were to win. In that, he failed once again.

However, consider that in the Republican ideal of the US as a corporatocracy, state media would, itself, be controlled by a corporation. in this case, “state media” does not refer to the source of funding, but to its goals as a part of state propaganda. Perhaps in this case, it might more accurately be called party media and party propaganda.
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Old 2nd March 2020, 08:39 AM   #3918
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Trump Tweets

“Ever since (Mini Mike) Bloomberg’s bad debate performances, his support has dropped.” @abcnews Dropped a lot. Only his highly paid consultants, who are laughing all the way to the bank, still support him...And by the way, he did not poll well as mayor in handling crisis!

I was criticized by the Democrats when I closed the Country down to China many weeks ahead of what almost everyone recommended. Saved many lives. Dems were working the Impeachment Hoax. They didn’t have a clue! Now they are fear mongering. Be calm & vigilant!
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Old 2nd March 2020, 08:41 AM   #3919
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Trump Tweets

As usual, Jay Powell and the Federal Reserve are slow to act. Germany and others are pumping money into their economies. Other Central Banks are much more aggressive. The U.S. should have, for all of the right reasons, the lowest Rate. We don’t, putting us at a.....

....competitive disadvantage. We should be leading, not following!
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Old 2nd March 2020, 09:11 AM   #3920
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Well... that time may not be far away. There's a report, now that there's been testing allowed to be done, that it's been in Washington state for at least six weeks.
Yeah, I'm right in the middle of that.

Now I'm paranoid if I did enough over the last week to keep from getting it. I used hand sanitizer and hand washing, but I might not have been careful enough with the bags and groceries I brought into the house. On the good side, I stocked up on supplies before the rush and before the surge of cases really takes off here.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 2nd March 2020 at 09:13 AM.
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