IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags antifa conspiracies , assault incidents , donald trump , Martin Gugino , police incidents , police misconduct charges

Reply
Old 12th June 2020, 03:11 PM   #121
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 31,320
I apologize for starting this thread.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th June 2020, 03:36 PM   #122
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 22,863
Come on, we're about to see a bigfoot believer analyze a grainy video to explain what really happened! That wasn't a cop helmet, it was a Niagara River swamp creature.
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th June 2020, 03:41 PM   #123
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 28,270
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I apologize for starting this thread.
Don't. You asked to see how a Trump supporter would respond, and there is one. Whatever one might think of ChrisBFRKY and is opinion, he's put it out there for all to see. The more we see the better.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)
bruto is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th June 2020, 04:31 PM   #124
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 50,639
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I apologize for starting this thread.
Who are you apologizing to?
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th June 2020, 05:06 PM   #125
alfaniner
Penultimate Amazing
 
alfaniner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sorth Dakonsin
Posts: 25,064
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
This narrative is a lie. He did not have a police helmet in his hand. Unless police wear small handheld devices the size of a cell phone on their head. Please do your due diligence and put an end to falsehoods. It is very easy to see the device in the video I linked earlier.

Chris B.
Take a look at his left ******* hand.
__________________
Science is self-correcting.
Woo is self-contradicting.
alfaniner is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th June 2020, 05:18 PM   #126
ChrisBFRPKY
Illuminator
 
ChrisBFRPKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,692
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Yes, I've watched it several times. Why were his actions 'questionable'?

He's a frail 75 year old man. Just what danger or threat was he posing to the police? Was he attacking them with their helmet? Assaulting them with his cell phone? Running up to them screaming?

Gugino lives in Amherst, a suburb of Buffalo. He is originally from Buffalo. Why you brought up the fact he drove in to Buffalo is interesting. Are you suggesting he was an outsider brought in to agitate? If so, how very Trumpian.

No, we cannot agree that Gugino was "doing something unusual with t the device his cell phone in his hand. Using 'device' to insinuate it wasn't a cell phone is not very clever or subtle. But again, very Trumpian.

ETA: For someone who claims he's watched the video, I suggest you watch it again. He clearly has a helmet with a visor that looks exactly like the helmets the police are wearing in his left hand.
His left hand did not come near the officers. He was waving whatever that object was in his right hand close to the officer's body.

It does look like a cell phone however many things look like a cell phone. He made no attempts to return anything, the "returning a helmet" is a false narrative to explain the reason he approached the officers. The right hand tells the tale and looks to be the real reason the officers were approached.

Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th June 2020, 05:22 PM   #127
ChrisBFRPKY
Illuminator
 
ChrisBFRPKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,692
Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Take a look at his left ******* hand.
Jesus, as the video clearly shows I'm talking about the device he had in his right hand, the one he waved near the police officer's body(s). He did nothing with his left hand. The narrative of "He was returning a police helmet" is a lie. He made no effort to return anything yet he did put a great deal of effort into waving the "object" very near the officers.

Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th June 2020, 05:25 PM   #128
Resume
Troublesome Passenger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 19,083
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
The right hand tells the tale and looks to be the real reason the officers were approached.
His right hand tells the exact same tale as your photos of blurry black blobs: Could be anything. There is exactly the same amount of evidence for this conspiracy as there is for your blurry blobs being bigfoot: None.
Resume is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th June 2020, 05:28 PM   #129
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 28,593
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
His left hand did not come near the officers. He was waving whatever that object was in his right hand close to the officer's body.

It does look like a cell phone however many things look like a cell phone. He made no attempts to return anything, the "returning a helmet" is a false narrative to explain the reason he approached the officers. The right hand tells the tale and looks to be the real reason the officers were approached.

Chris B.
Nonsense. What tells the tale is they knocked a 75 year old man to the ground. The rest is crap. There is nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that makes a sane person believe that Mr. Gugino was ANTIFA and was trying to capture or jam police frequencies.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th June 2020, 05:36 PM   #130
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,232
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
His left hand did not come near the officers. He was waving whatever that object was in his right hand close to the officer's body.
I didn't say it did! Christ on a pogo stick!
"Whatever that was" was a freaking cell phone. So he was waving it around. So what? Let me guess...trying to find the police communications frequency, right?

Quote:
It does look like a cell phone however many things look like a cell phone.
Yeah... it only looks like a cell phone. But was it? That would be a clever way to disguise a.....what, exactly?

Quote:
He made no attempts to return anything, the "returning a helmet" is a false narrative to explain the reason he approached the officers. The right hand tells the tale and looks to be the real reason the officers were approached.

Chris B.
I didn't say he was returning the helmet. YOU said there was no helmet and I told you there was. Which you now admit. Sheeeeeeeeeesh.

Yeah, Chris....what was the 'real' reason? Enquiring minds want to know.

Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th June 2020, 05:36 PM   #131
ChrisBFRPKY
Illuminator
 
ChrisBFRPKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,692
Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Sure is, You're making some odd gestures, and statements. I'm allowed to make wild accusations and have them treated as true.

Just like Trump, and accusations against the poor guy who has a brain injury now.




What was he doing? Provide evidence. Don't make things up like Trump and OANN.
It's perfectly easy to see by reading my prior comments that I do not agree that it was right to shove the guy.

Accusations? No, I linked to a video that shows the gentleman approached the police officers and waved something near their body(s). To me and most others that view that video those actions seem odd at the least. I did not say he did anything else.

I don't know exactly what he was doing. Do you? I know from the video the facts I stated above. I know his actions seemed odd. As to the reasons for his actions I don't know but it would seem there should be some reason for doing them. I have cell phones,RF scanners, ipods and pads, heck there's even an old walkman around here somewhere yet I've never waved one near a police officer like that.

Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th June 2020, 05:37 PM   #132
p0lka
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: near trees, houses and a lake.
Posts: 2,266
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Reading some of the arguments in this thread, I'm making a not-so-unusual motion with my hand.
well, in which case you are obviously guilty of something
p0lka is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th June 2020, 05:40 PM   #133
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,232
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlitos
Reading some of the arguments in this thread, I'm making a not-so-unusual motion with my hand.
Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
well, in which case you are obviously guilty of something
Carlitos is obviously trying to block police communications with that device at the end of his arm. It only looks like a hand.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th June 2020, 05:42 PM   #134
ChrisBFRPKY
Illuminator
 
ChrisBFRPKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,692
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I didn't say it did! Christ on a pogo stick!
"Whatever that was" was a freaking cell phone. So he was waving it around. So what? Let me guess...trying to find the police communications frequency, right?



Yeah... it only looks like a cell phone. But was it? That would be a clever way to disguise a.....what, exactly?



I didn't say he was returning the helmet. YOU said there was no helmet and I told you there was. Which you now admit. Sheeeeeeeeeesh.

Yeah, Chris....what was the 'real' reason? Enquiring minds want to know.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...41f88ae7da.png
Pardon me. I apologize for saying you were wrong. There was indeed a helmet visible in his possession. I should have made it more clear I was speaking about the object in his right hand. The false narrative I was attacking is that he was handing the police officer a helmet when he was shoved to the ground, you didn't say that and so again, I apologize.

Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th June 2020, 05:44 PM   #135
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,232
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Pardon me. I apologize for saying you were wrong. There was indeed a helmet visible in his possession. I should have made it more clear I was speaking about the object in his right hand. The false narrative I was attacking is that he was handing the police officer a helmet when he was shoved to the ground, you didn't say that and so again, I apologize.

Chris B.
Apology accepted. Thank you.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th June 2020, 08:07 PM   #136
Regnad Kcin
Penultimate Amazing
 
Regnad Kcin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 10,269
Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
Nano-thermite thrusters.
He was wearing a paranormal face mask!
__________________
My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.
Regnad Kcin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th June 2020, 08:08 PM   #137
ChrisBFRPKY
Illuminator
 
ChrisBFRPKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,692
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Well, now...getting your 'info' straight from OANN are ya?
This is the OANN CT 'report' about Gugino you apparently believe:
https://www.oann.com/militant-tweets...n-buffalo-n-y/

OANN is about as credible as Trump.





Oooooooooh....a 'hand held device'. So ominous sounding. I talk and text on my 'hand held device' every day. Maybe I'm Antifa, too!

All this twaddle of Gugino being Antifa and attempting to scan and/or jam police communications is nuts. As nuts as Trump and anyone who defends his idiotic tweet.


https://www.bbc.com/news/52984295
I just thought I'd add that the BBC fact check link is hilarious. From the link:

"From the clip, it's not possible to tell what he was doing with the phone. We've seen no evidence to suggest he was trying to scan police devices. It is also not clear how police equipment could be interfered with in this way."


So it's not possible to tell what he was doing with the phone. Yet somehow it becomes possible for the fact checker to determine he was not trying to scan police radios..........LMAO! This person should work for Politico!

Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th June 2020, 08:43 PM   #138
Resume
Troublesome Passenger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 19,083
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
So it's not possible to tell what he was doing with the phone.
No, it isn't. The intellectually honest conclusion would then be "I dunno."

Your assertion that he is somehow up to something nefarious is entirely unevidenced, and can be summarily dismissed. Which I have just done.
Resume is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th June 2020, 09:30 PM   #139
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 28,593
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I just thought I'd add that the BBC fact check link is hilarious. From the link:

"From the clip, it's not possible to tell what he was doing with the phone. We've seen no evidence to suggest he was trying to scan police devices. It is also not clear how police equipment could be interfered with in this way."


So it's not possible to tell what he was doing with the phone. Yet somehow it becomes possible for the fact checker to determine he was not trying to scan police radios..........LMAO! This person should work for Politico!

Chris B.
This is a perfect example of how nutty and ridiculous Trump supporters are,

There is NO REASON, ABSOLUTELY NO ******* REASON to believe that Mr. Gugino waa attempting to scan police frequencies. There were no reports from the Buffalo police or the medics that aided him and took him to the hospital. There is NO REASON to believe that he was a member of ANTIFA. NONE.

I'm embarrassed for Chris that he is defending this lunacy.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th June 2020, 09:38 PM   #140
Minoosh
Penultimate Amazing
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12,340
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I apologize for starting this thread.
Why did you glom onto this specific tweet? It seems perfectly in character with a thousand other things he's said. What about this tweet struck you as exceptionally odious?
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th June 2020, 11:54 PM   #141
ChrisBFRPKY
Illuminator
 
ChrisBFRPKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,692
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
This is a perfect example of how nutty and ridiculous Trump supporters are,

There is NO REASON, ABSOLUTELY NO ******* REASON to believe that Mr. Gugino waa attempting to scan police frequencies. There were no reports from the Buffalo police or the medics that aided him and took him to the hospital. There is NO REASON to believe that he was a member of ANTIFA. NONE.

I'm embarrassed for Chris that he is defending this lunacy.
I'm not defending lunacy, I'm having fun with it. I have claimed that the old guy's behavior seemed odd in the video and my post you quoted above made light of a "fact checker" that claims there is no way to tell what the old guy was doing with his phone yet the "fact checker" can definitely confirm that he was not scanning police devices........

How can this be? I don't know what he was doing in the video. Other than waving whatever he had in his right hand near the police officers I can't tell anything about it either. Yet the "fact checker" knows he wasn't scanning for anything. Again the words of the "fact checker":

"From the clip, it's not possible to tell what he was doing with the phone. We've seen no evidence to suggest he was trying to scan police devices. It is also not clear how police equipment could be interfered with in this way."

1.From the clip, it's not possible to tell what he is doing with the phone.

2.We've seen no evidence to suggest he was trying to scan police devices.

If you can't tell what he's doing then how does one confirm what he's not doing? In fact there's evidence to support he WAS doing something. The movements of the device near the officers is evidence of something. It looks like he's checking them at the airport after they failed the walk thru metal detector. As to what he's doing who can say? Also the "fact checker" tells us it was a phone in his hand. How do we know it wasn't an Ipod or something else? We don't know and if the truth is to break the surface the "fact checker" doesn't know either.

Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2020, 12:07 AM   #142
ChrisBFRPKY
Illuminator
 
ChrisBFRPKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,692
Originally Posted by Resume View Post
I'm talking about your history of unevidenced assertions, including those you've made in this thread, which are made by you. Kinda unavoidable.
Below

Originally Posted by Resume View Post
No, it isn't. The intellectually honest conclusion would then be "I dunno."

Your assertion that he is somehow up to something nefarious is entirely unevidenced, and can be summarily dismissed. Which I have just done.
I provided the link to the video clip that clearly shows the old guy waving something in front of the police officers. That is evidence of something because it is not ordinary behavior in itself. His actions were odd and to claim that they were not is intellectually dishonest.

Again I will add for anyone that hasn't read thru yet that I do not condone the police officers pushing or shoving the man. There was no indication of violence from the guy and he posed no physical threat to the officers. That action was uncalled for.

Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2020, 02:33 AM   #143
Resume
Troublesome Passenger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 19,083
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I provided the link to the video clip that clearly shows the old guy . . .
Clearly shows an old guy doing something that cannot be determined; you don't know what he is doing, whether you find it odd or not. Like your blurry blobs, it is evidence of nothing but your imagination. That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed with prejudice.

Dismissed again.

Last edited by Resume; 13th June 2020 at 02:59 AM.
Resume is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2020, 02:50 AM   #144
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
 
Roger Ramjets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,378
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY
You need an inexpensive small handheld device... This is common knowledge to anyone with any background in ham or CB radios
Check.

Quote:
even if he had an agenda...
Check.

Quote:
consistent with ANTIFA philosophy...
Check.

Quote:
questionable actions...
Check.

Quote:
put a great deal of effort into waving the "object" very near the officers.
Check.

Any comment on the 'blood'?

Trump’s Buffalo protester conspiracy theory shows why we are not ready for deepfakes
Quote:
A search of Gugino’s name on Twitter shows right-wing accounts repeating the Buffalo conspiracy theory narrative. This has since morphed into a more outlandish conspiracy: that Gugino used a device to spurt fake blood from his protective face mask – a claim that would require the medical staff who treated him and confirmed his injuries to part of the “set up”.
__________________
We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.
Roger Ramjets is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2020, 02:55 AM   #145
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 43,088
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I'm not defending lunacy, I'm having fun with it. I have claimed that the old guy's behavior seemed odd in the video and my post you quoted above made light of a "fact checker" that claims there is no way to tell what the old guy was doing with his phone yet the "fact checker" can definitely confirm that he was not scanning police devices........

How can this be? I don't know what he was doing in the video. Other than waving whatever he had in his right hand near the police officers I can't tell anything about it either. Yet the "fact checker" knows he wasn't scanning for anything. Again the words of the "fact checker":

"From the clip, it's not possible to tell what he was doing with the phone. We've seen no evidence to suggest he was trying to scan police devices. It is also not clear how police equipment could be interfered with in this way."

1.From the clip, it's not possible to tell what he is doing with the phone.

2.We've seen no evidence to suggest he was trying to scan police devices.

If you can't tell what he's doing then how does one confirm what he's not doing? In fact there's evidence to support he WAS doing something. The movements of the device near the officers is evidence of something. It looks like he's checking them at the airport after they failed the walk thru metal detector. As to what he's doing who can say? Also the "fact checker" tells us it was a phone in his hand. How do we know it wasn't an Ipod or something else? We don't know and if the truth is to break the surface the "fact checker" doesn't know either.

Chris B.

Phones operate at specific frequencies that are locked in the hardware. They can only operate using the communication protocols that are locked in the hardware. These frequencies are on specific bands that police communications don't use, for obvious reasons. At worst he was trying to record them.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
“Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2020, 03:19 AM   #146
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 17,219
Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Elizabeth Warren got a defamation suit dismissed (Covington case) due to federal immunity, not too long ago, didn't even need Barr to back her up. It's not something that is party specific.

Yes, I guess you missed what I was getting at

There is actually no such thing as 'Absolute Immunity'. It is pseudo-legal term that Trump and his corrupt minions pulled out of their arses. Its what he claimed in order to prevent anyone of his staff complying with subpoenas to testify before Congress. Its right in line with Barr's theory that presidents are totally above the law and not even allowed to be investigated for anything.
__________________
I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms.
- Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project)
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2020, 03:20 AM   #147
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,013
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Here's a close up of the video. What do you think he's doing with the handheld device he removed from his bag? Nothing? Does this action look normal to you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo




And some are not, you know.

Chris B.

The handheld device looks like a phone, it looks to me like it's recording video and if asked to speculate on what he's doing my best guess would be that he is taking a video record of the police officer's identifying insignia or lack thereof.
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2020, 03:30 AM   #148
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 11,573
Originally Posted by Resume View Post
I've participated in political activism outside my home town, just as Mr. Gugino did, and Trump nuts at silly Trump rallies do. Again, so what?
The comment was made that Martin Gugino 'wasn't even from Buffalo!' More nonsense. He's from Amherst, a suburb on the north side.
Quote:
Gugino "is also a typical Western New Yorker who loves his family. No one from law enforcement has even suggested anything otherwise, so we are at a loss to understand why the President of the United States would make such dark, dangerous, and untrue accusations against him.” [Kelly Zarcone, a lawyer for Gugino.]

Gugino, identified as a longtime peace activist from Amherst, is a member of two nonprofits: PUSH Buffalo, which focuses on affordable housing, and the Western New York Peace Center, a human rights organization. He is also part of the Catholic Worker Movement and politically active on social media, frequently criticizing Trump. Link to Syracuse dot com
New York's Governor Andrew Cuomo called trump's comments reckless and crude. "At this moment of anguish and anger, what does he do? Pours gasoline on the fire."

Last edited by newyorkguy; 13th June 2020 at 03:59 AM.
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2020, 03:47 AM   #149
Resume
Troublesome Passenger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 19,083
Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
The comment was made that Martin Gugino 'wasn't even from Buffalo!' More nonsense. He's from Amherst, a suburb on the north side.
It's like 7 miles from Amherst to Buffalo, which to conspiracy kooks makes Gugino an outside agitator.
Resume is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2020, 05:43 AM   #150
p0lka
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: near trees, houses and a lake.
Posts: 2,266
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I just thought I'd add that the BBC fact check link is hilarious. From the link:

"From the clip, it's not possible to tell what he was doing with the phone. We've seen no evidence to suggest he was trying to scan police devices. It is also not clear how police equipment could be interfered with in this way."


So it's not possible to tell what he was doing with the phone. Yet somehow it becomes possible for the fact checker to determine he was not trying to scan police radios..........LMAO! This person should work for Politico!

Chris B.
That is a false statement.
The factchecker did not determine he was not trying to scan police radios.

The factchecker states 'We've seen no evidence to suggest he was trying to scan police devices.'

Those are two different statements. Saying there is no evidence of A is not the same as saying there is no A, it's saying the burden of proof hasn't been met on the claim that there is A.

Last edited by p0lka; 13th June 2020 at 05:48 AM.
p0lka is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2020, 11:28 AM   #151
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,232
Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
That is a false statement.
The factchecker did not determine he was not trying to scan police radios.

The factchecker states 'We've seen no evidence to suggest he was trying to scan police devices.'

Those are two different statements. Saying there is no evidence of A is not the same as saying there is no A, it's saying the burden of proof hasn't been met on the claim that there is A.
Exactly what I was going to point out.

Chris completely misrepresents what the BBC article said. That could be a reading comprehension problem, a deliberate but very obvious attempt to misrepresent it or just a classic example of confirmation bias affecting his ability to use logic.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2020, 06:04 PM   #152
ChrisBFRPKY
Illuminator
 
ChrisBFRPKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,692
Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
That is a false statement.
The factchecker did not determine he was not trying to scan police radios.

The factchecker states 'We've seen no evidence to suggest he was trying to scan police devices.'

Those are two different statements. Saying there is no evidence of A is not the same as saying there is no A, it's saying the burden of proof hasn't been met on the claim that there is A.
Yet their statement begins with "There is no way to determine what he is doing."

But then they make a determination. We've seen no evidence blah blah blah.

Certainly if there is no way to determine what he is doing, then there is no evidence to comment on. Look at it this way:

New statement:

1. From the video it is impossible to determine what he is doing.

2. We've seen evidence he was making movements with an undetermined device similar to those used when scanning people at metal detector check points. But we have not seen evidence that he was wearing thong underwear.

Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2020, 06:23 PM   #153
ChrisBFRPKY
Illuminator
 
ChrisBFRPKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,692
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Exactly what I was going to point out.

Chris completely misrepresents what the BBC article said. That could be a reading comprehension problem, a deliberate but very obvious attempt to misrepresent it or just a classic example of confirmation bias affecting his ability to use logic.
I covered this above. The main point I'm trying to make on a Skeptic site is everyone should be skeptical. The BBC fact check tells us the truth in the beginning. "There is no way to determine what he is doing in the video" Check.
I'll agree with that full stop.

But then the BBC goes on to make a determination.That's wrong and I call them on it. You can't claim it's impossible to determine what he's doing then make a determination of what he is NOT doing. There's no evidence to suggest he was (add anything you want him not to be doing here). The BBC could have just as easily written: "We've seen no evidence to suggest he was not trying to scan the police devices."

Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2020, 07:06 PM   #154
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 28,593
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I covered this above. The main point I'm trying to make on a Skeptic site is everyone should be skeptical. The BBC fact check tells us the truth in the beginning. "There is no way to determine what he is doing in the video" Check.
I'll agree with that full stop.

But then the BBC goes on to make a determination.That's wrong and I call them on it. You can't claim it's impossible to determine what he's doing then make a determination of what he is NOT doing. There's no evidence to suggest he was (add anything you want him not to be doing here). The BBC could have just as easily written: "We've seen no evidence to suggest he was not trying to scan the police devices."

Chris B.
You're not calling anyone out on anything. You're throwing mud on the wall. As I said before, its embarrassing.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2020, 07:17 PM   #155
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,232
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I covered this above. The main point I'm trying to make on a Skeptic site is everyone should be skeptical. The BBC fact check tells us the truth in the beginning. "There is no way to determine what he is doing in the video" Check.
I'll agree with that full stop.
There is being skeptical and there is being just plain illogical and stupid.

Quote:
But then the BBC goes on to make a determination.That's wrong and I call them on it. You can't claim it's impossible to determine what he's doing then make a determination of what he is NOT doing.
NO. THEY DON'T. They made no determination. That would have looked like this: Gugino was not scanning for police communications in order to block them.

It's really very simple but you seem to have a problem understanding this.

Quote:
There's no evidence to suggest he was (add anything you want him not to be doing here). The BBC could have just as easily written: "We've seen no evidence to suggest he was not trying to scan the police devices."

Chris B.
You're trying to prove a negative which is a favorite tactic even if illogical.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2020, 09:28 PM   #156
Regnad Kcin
Penultimate Amazing
 
Regnad Kcin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 10,269
Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
The comment was made that Martin Gugino 'wasn't even from Buffalo!' More nonsense. He's from Amherst, a suburb on the north side.
Originally Posted by Resume View Post
It's like 7 miles from Amherst to Buffalo, which to conspiracy kooks makes Gugino an outside agitator.
Y’know who else wasn’t from Buffalo? Hitler!
__________________
My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.
Regnad Kcin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2020, 09:32 PM   #157
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,232
Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Y’know who else wasn’t from Buffalo? Hitler!
Buffalo, Austria to be exact.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 01:47 AM   #158
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 17,219
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Yet their statement begins with "There is no way to determine what he is doing."

But then they make a determination. We've seen no evidence blah blah blah.\.
No, you see, this is where you bigfooters and conspiracy theorists get it wrong... Every. Single. Time!!

The only determination made is that there is no evidence to support.

Its like a scientist saying that we have found no evidence to support the theory that there is life on Europa. Such a statement is NOT, repeat NOT making a determination that there is no life on Europa.
__________________
I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms.
- Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project)
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 01:52 AM   #159
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 17,219
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It's really very simple but you seem to have a problem understanding this.
All conspiracy theorists have trouble understanding this.

Personally, I think they pretend to not understand; they do it on purpose.
__________________
I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms.
- Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project)
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

Last edited by smartcooky; 14th June 2020 at 02:03 AM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 02:33 AM   #160
ChrisBFRPKY
Illuminator
 
ChrisBFRPKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,692
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
No, you see, this is where you bigfooters and conspiracy theorists get it wrong... Every. Single. Time!!

The only determination made is that there is no evidence to support.

Its like a scientist saying that we have found no evidence to support the theory that there is life on Europa. Such a statement is NOT, repeat NOT making a determination that there is no life on Europa.
Exactly as I said, the statement is there is no way to make a determination based on the video and yet the BBC fact checker made more than one.

#1 They determined the device in his hand was a phone.:
"From the clip, it's not possible to tell what he was doing with the phone."

OK, I know you can't see exactly what the device is in his hand but it looks like a cell phone to us so you can take our word that it is a cell phone.

#2 They determine he was not trying to scan police devices.:
"We've seen no evidence to suggest he was trying to scan police devices."

OK, disregard that in the video you saw the man making scanning motions with whatever device was in his hand and trust us that we saw no evidence he was doing what it looked like he was. When security personnel make those same types of motions toward you at a metal detector checkpoint they're just being friendly and there is no evidence you are being scanned for anything.

#3 They support #2 with the next statement:
"It is also not clear how police equipment could be interfered with in this way."

OK, if he was scanning the officers with the device in his hand as the video appears to show him doing, we don't know how it could interfere with police equipment. You can trust our word that since we don't know how it could be done, it can't be done because we're so much smarter than you.


"From the clip, it's not possible to tell what he was doing with the phone. We've seen no evidence to suggest he was trying to scan police devices. It is also not clear how police equipment could be interfered with in this way."


Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:49 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.