IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags antifa conspiracies , assault incidents , donald trump , Martin Gugino , police incidents , police misconduct charges

Reply
Old 14th June 2020, 02:39 AM   #161
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
 
Roger Ramjets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,378
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
All conspiracy theorists have trouble understanding this.

Personally, I think they pretend to not understand; they do it on purpose.
Except in this case it isn't a conspiracy theory - it's deflection.

In a previous post (which absolutely was not a Poe, honest!) I imagined what excuses a Trump supporter (aka republican/conservative/deplorable) might come up with to defend his obnoxious tweet. This isn't hard because there are plenty of other examples to draw from. So it came as no surprise to later find out that 'fake blood' was one of them. These 'CT's' are not theories about what might have really happened, but simply attempts to neutralize the shocking facts of the incident. These people truly are deplorable.
__________________
We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.
Roger Ramjets is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 02:40 AM   #162
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 14,874
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
__________________
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 02:52 AM   #163
ChrisBFRPKY
Illuminator
 
ChrisBFRPKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,692
I wonder if it's possible to use a cell phone to bluetooth connect to a police body cam in order to receive video and audio from it?

Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 03:16 AM   #164
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 17,219
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I wonder if it's possible to use a cell phone to bluetooth connect to a police body cam in order to receive video and audio from it?

Chris B.
No, its not

Bluetooth devices have maximum bitrate of about 350k bits/sec (theoretically, Bluetooth could handle higher rates, but the devices at both ends of the stream would need to allow that. Bluetooth doesn't have the continuous bandwidth necessary to stream even low resolution video.
__________________
I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms.
- Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project)
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

Last edited by smartcooky; 14th June 2020 at 03:24 AM.
smartcooky is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 04:00 AM   #165
dann
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,933
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I wonder if it's possible to use a cell phone to bluetooth connect to a police body cam in order to receive video and audio from it?

Why do you wonder?
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 07:43 AM   #166
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 11,573
Quote:
...OK, if he was scanning the officers with the device in his hand as the video appears to show him doing...
Anyone who would seriously believe that would probably believe anything. Like Big Foot exists.
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 07:50 AM   #167
Babbylonian
Penultimate Amazing
 
Babbylonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,548
Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Anyone who would seriously believe that would probably believe anything. Like Big Foot exists.
FWIW, all references to Bigfoot are off-topic in this thread.
Babbylonian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 08:05 AM   #168
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 11,573
Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
FWIW, all references to Bigfoot are off-topic in this thread.
Okay.
Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Anyone who would seriously believe that would probably believe anything. Like Big Foot Santa Claus exists.
Better?
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 08:20 AM   #169
pgwenthold
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 20,228
Originally Posted by dann View Post
Why do you wonder?
Because he needs it to be true to be able to hold on to his delusion
__________________
"As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets
pgwenthold is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 08:23 AM   #170
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 28,266
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
No, its not

Bluetooth devices have maximum bitrate of about 350k bits/sec (theoretically, Bluetooth could handle higher rates, but the devices at both ends of the stream would need to allow that. Bluetooth doesn't have the continuous bandwidth necessary to stream even low resolution video.
Aside from that, though I will admit to having used bluetooth only a few times, I thought that in order to do so one has to poll the devices to establish communication. Is it realistic to think a person holding a phone and marching toward a cop would be able to perform the pairing without visibly looking at, or operating, the device?

e.t.a. but of course might he have been a space traveler from planet X with a super-bluetoothy space module from the unknown, sending secret signals via his lizard brain to George Soros's secret volcanic hideout? Not of course alleging anything, just asking.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)

Last edited by bruto; 14th June 2020 at 08:28 AM.
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 08:34 AM   #171
The Shrike
Philosopher
 
The Shrike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Oklahoma, USA
Posts: 5,147
So... looks like no defense of Trump's ridiculous tweet about Martin Gugino, then. Got it.

The lesson is – yet again – that there is no depth of depraved inanity that Trump could plumb that would not be defended by Cult 45. He is affirmation of their looniest fantasies on the world's most powerful stage. (Well, it used to be before Putin took charge of it, I suppose.)

Which means that the key remains not the cultists but those who look the other way and end up enabling him. They're the ones who think he's "good for the economy" or some such nonsense, and that's the messaging that needs to be hammered home to rid the world of this fecal extravaganza. Yep, unemployment for May looked a bit better than it was for April. It went *down* to 13% from 15%. Never mind how that racist buttmunch used this news to desecrate the memory of George Floyd (which is an extraordinary thing to "never mind"), he's celebrating 13% unemployment. He inherited 6 years of continuous job growth, managed for 3 years not to screw that up, and then bungled his response to a crisis that in three months saw this country hit unemployment rates not seen since the Great Depression. On the economy, he's awful!

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...mployment-rate
The Shrike is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 10:22 AM   #172
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 28,593
Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
So... looks like no defense of Trump's ridiculous tweet about Martin Gugino, then. Got it.

The lesson is – yet again – that there is no depth of depraved inanity that Trump could plumb that would not be defended by Cult 45. He is affirmation of their looniest fantasies on the world's most powerful stage. (Well, it used to be before Putin took charge of it, I suppose.)

Which means that the key remains not the cultists but those who look the other way and end up enabling him. They're the ones who think he's "good for the economy" or some such nonsense, and that's the messaging that needs to be hammered home to rid the world of this fecal extravaganza. Yep, unemployment for May looked a bit better than it was for April. It went *down* to 13% from 15%. Never mind how that racist buttmunch used this news to desecrate the memory of George Floyd (which is an extraordinary thing to "never mind"), he's celebrating 13% unemployment. He inherited 6 years of continuous job growth, managed for 3 years not to screw that up, and then bungled his response to a crisis that in three months saw this country hit unemployment rates not seen since the Great Depression. On the economy, he's awful!

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...mployment-rate
It cracks me up that I'm seeing banners that say

Trump 2020
Enough BS

Enough BS"? Trump BS's more than any human being alive.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.

Last edited by acbytesla; 14th June 2020 at 10:24 AM.
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 10:48 AM   #173
Tommok
Scholar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 65
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post

#2 They determine he was not trying to scan police devices.:
"We've seen no evidence to suggest he was trying to scan police devices."
Uhm... no.

A does not follow from B. This has been pointed out many times.
Tommok is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 10:52 AM   #174
p0lka
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: near trees, houses and a lake.
Posts: 2,266
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
..snip..

#2 They determine he was not trying to scan police devices.:
"We've seen no evidence to suggest he was trying to scan police devices."
There's a difference between not accepting a claim, and making a claim of your own.
They didn't determine(make a claim) he was not trying to scan police devices,
they said "We've seen no evidence to suggest he was trying to scan police devices."
Would you agree that there's a difference?

EDIT: ninja'd by Tommok, haha.

Last edited by p0lka; 14th June 2020 at 10:55 AM.
p0lka is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 12:00 PM   #175
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,232
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Exactly as I said, the statement is there is no way to make a determination based on the video and yet the BBC fact checker made more than one.

#1 They determined the device in his hand was a phone.:
"From the clip, it's not possible to tell what he was doing with the phone."

OK, I know you can't see exactly what the device is in his hand but it looks like a cell phone to us so you can take our word that it is a cell phone.

#2 They determine he was not trying to scan police devices.:
"We've seen no evidence to suggest he was trying to scan police devices."

OK, disregard that in the video you saw the man making scanning motions with whatever device was in his hand and trust us that we saw no evidence he was doing what it looked like he was. When security personnel make those same types of motions toward you at a metal detector checkpoint they're just being friendly and there is no evidence you are being scanned for anything.

#3 They support #2 with the next statement:
"It is also not clear how police equipment could be interfered with in this way."

OK, if he was scanning the officers with the device in his hand as the video appears to show him doing, we don't know how it could interfere with police equipment. You can trust our word that since we don't know how it could be done, it can't be done because we're so much smarter than you.


"From the clip, it's not possible to tell what he was doing with the phone. We've seen no evidence to suggest he was trying to scan police devices. It is also not clear how police equipment could be interfered with in this way."


Chris B.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 12:07 PM   #176
ChrisBFRPKY
Illuminator
 
ChrisBFRPKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,692
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
No, its not

Bluetooth devices have maximum bitrate of about 350k bits/sec (theoretically, Bluetooth could handle higher rates, but the devices at both ends of the stream would need to allow that. Bluetooth doesn't have the continuous bandwidth necessary to stream even low resolution video.
After some google searches I found a website for Axon body cameras with instructions for pairing either iphones or android phones with an Axon body camera.

According to the site, the Axon 2 body cams can connect via bluetooth and wifi. It does say WIFI is required for viewing live video on the Axon 2 cams.

I suppose most people have a hot spot connection available on their iphones. If the cam connects to an open wifi hotspot on the phone, there you are. You're connected with the body cam and Robert's your uncle.

https://help.axon.com/hc/en-us/artic...-camera#iosAB2

And then there's this video on hacking police body cams:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izvzn5RO0lI

Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 12:13 PM   #177
ChrisBFRPKY
Illuminator
 
ChrisBFRPKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,692
Originally Posted by Tommok View Post
Uhm... no.

A does not follow from B. This has been pointed out many times.
Do you agree the BBC report determines he was holding a phone in his hand?

Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
There's a difference between not accepting a claim, and making a claim of your own.
They didn't determine(make a claim) he was not trying to scan police devices,
they said "We've seen no evidence to suggest he was trying to scan police devices."
Would you agree that there's a difference?

EDIT: ninja'd by Tommok, haha.
Same question, do you agree the BBC determines he was holding a phone in his hand?

Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 12:14 PM   #178
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,013
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
After some google searches I found a website for Axon body cameras with instructions for pairing either iphones or android phones with an Axon body camera.

According to the site, the Axon 2 body cams can connect via bluetooth and wifi. It does say WIFI is required for viewing live video on the Axon 2 cams.

I suppose most people have a hot spot connection available on their iphones. If the cam connects to an open wifi hotspot on the phone, there you are. You're connected with the body cam and Robert's your uncle.

https://help.axon.com/hc/en-us/artic...-camera#iosAB2

And then there's this video on hacking police body cams:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izvzn5RO0lI

Chris B.

If the police bodycams connected to any wifi hotspot and this was a problem they wouldn't be able to walk past a coffee shop. There's more to hacking a device than it just having a means of connection. Oh, and neither wifi nor bluetooth would require getting anywhere near that close.

As I've already pointed out it looks to me like he's filming on his phone and documenting the police's insignia and identification, or lack of the same. I have exactly as much evidence as you but the advantage that the idea doesn't require unlikely technology or the police using equipment set up to connect to other peoples devices randomly.
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 12:24 PM   #179
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,013
Add to that in the close up video Chris links to in #102 you can see the device quite clearly, the front is entirely a screen (like a cell phone) and you can see that it is displaying what is clearly the feed from a camera on the other side of the object (like a phone with the camera/video app open).

Either it's a phone or 'Q' has started selling out of the back of a van!
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 12:32 PM   #180
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,232
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Do you agree the BBC report determines he was holding a phone in his hand?



Same question, do you agree the BBC determines he was holding a phone in his hand?

Chris B.
They qualify it being a phone by first saying this:

Quote:
Footage of 75-year-old Martin Gugino shows him approaching police lines holding up what appears to be a mobile phone which he points at one of the officers.
That it was, in fact, a phone has not been questioned by anyone except nutty conspiracy theorists and that originated from OANN which is well known to push crazy CTs.

The BBC article, however, does determine his name is Gugino, he's 75, a man, and was pushed down.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 12:50 PM   #181
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 17,219
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Aside from that, though I will admit to having used bluetooth only a few times, I thought that in order to do so one has to poll the devices to establish communication. Is it realistic to think a person holding a phone and marching toward a cop would be able to perform the pairing without visibly looking at, or operating, the device?

e.t.a. but of course might he have been a space traveler from planet X with a super-bluetoothy space module from the unknown, sending secret signals via his lizard brain to George Soros's secret volcanic hideout? Not of course alleging anything, just asking.

And you either need the passcode of the device you are trying to pair with, or the person who has that device has to press a button to allow it to pair. And thats assuming that the bodycam is even equipped with some sort of wireless streaming the first place. Most of them use an encrypted memory card, or internal memory that is downloaded later.
__________________
I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms.
- Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project)
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 01:03 PM   #182
Babbylonian
Penultimate Amazing
 
Babbylonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,548
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
And you either need the passcode of the device you are trying to pair with, or the person who has that device has to press a button to allow it to pair. And thats assuming that the bodycam is even equipped with some sort of wireless streaming the first place. Most of them use an encrypted memory card, or internal memory that is downloaded later.
And, just for funsies, if it was possible to connect to a police officer's body cam at Bluetooth range, why would anyone give a ******?
Babbylonian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 01:40 PM   #183
pgwenthold
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 20,228
Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
And, just for funsies, if it was possible to connect to a police officer's body cam at Bluetooth range, why would anyone give a ******?
Yeah, talk about a conspiracy theory that's off the rails.
__________________
"As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets
pgwenthold is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 02:03 PM   #184
blutoski
Penultimate Amazing
 
blutoski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,382
Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
As I've already pointed out it looks to me like he's filming on his phone and documenting the police's insignia and identification, or lack of the same. I have exactly as much evidence as you but the advantage that the idea doesn't require unlikely technology or the police using equipment set up to connect to other peoples devices randomly.
This has been my impression consistently. It looks exactly like he's recording the interaction on his phone voice memo app, and possibly trying to get a snapshot of the officers' IDs in case he needed to file a complaint. Well within his rights as a taxpayer.

But, of course, to an officer, this means his brains have to be splattered on the pavement.

Notice that their primary activity at that point was not first aid, but to zero in on the camera operator and force them to stop as well. Perhaps they said, "See what happened to the last guy who was filming us? Nice skull you got there, shame if something happened and it got cracked."


I come from this with a bit of biased experience. When I was in my 20s I was photographing a riot in Vancouver. An officer asked to see my camera. Then he dropped it on the pavement from shoulder level, smashing the lens and popping the back off to expose the film. My first direct interaction with a police officer, and as you can imagine, very educational. It's only in retrospect that I thought, "Argh. Shoulda got his badge number or something." So I can see how a seasoned protester like Gugino would be doing that proactively.

I still have the camera as a constant reminder. It was my grandfather's Spotmatic that he bequeathed to me when he died, and what was a gorgeous f1.0 50mm lens never really worked properly again.
__________________
"Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett
blutoski is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 02:05 PM   #185
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 11,573
Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Add to that in the close up video Chris links to in #102 you can see the device quite clearly, the front is entirely a screen (like a cell phone) and you can see that it is displaying what is clearly the feed from a camera on the other side of the object (like a phone with the camera/video app open).

Either it's a phone or 'Q' has started selling out of the back of a van!
It also looks like Gugino is talking and gesturing with the hand that is holding the phone. My guess from the body language -- and this is just a guess -- is Gugino was gesturing at the rifle the cop on Gugino's right is cradling and asking him: "Why do you need that?"
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 02:09 PM   #186
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 31,717
Well, there was one apologist trying to defend Trump. It's not surprising that the defenses are absolutely nonsense.
__________________
1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 02:11 PM   #187
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,232
Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
It also looks like Gugino is talking and gesturing with the hand that is holding the phone. My guess from the body language -- and this is just a guess -- is Gugino was gesturing at the rifle the cop on Gugino's right is cradling and asking him: "Why do you need that?"
I would really like to hear Gugino's explanation of what happened. So far, we haven't. This could be due to brain damage/memory problems or it could be at his lawyer's advice because they're filing a lawsuit. So far, I've seen nothing in the media about that.

ETA: I suspect Gugino's explanation that it was just a cell phone and he wasn't Antifa trying jam police communications would be met with accusations of "Well, that's exactly what an Antifa agitator would say!"

Last edited by Stacyhs; 14th June 2020 at 02:39 PM.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 02:14 PM   #188
blutoski
Penultimate Amazing
 
blutoski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,382
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I wonder if it's possible to use a cell phone to bluetooth connect to a police body cam in order to receive video and audio from it?

Chris B.
Not any model I could locate. These police appeared to be using Axon branded (same company that makes Tasers) and they only support live stream through encrypted VPN.

Meaning, to get access, an app needs to be provided credentials by the police.
__________________
"Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett
blutoski is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 03:17 PM   #189
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 17,219
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I would really like to hear Gugino's explanation of what happened. So far, we haven't. This could be due to brain damage/memory problems or it could be at his lawyer's advice because they're filing a lawsuit. So far, I've seen nothing in the media about that.

ETA: I suspect Gugino's explanation that it was just a cell phone and he wasn't Antifa trying jam police communications would be met with accusations of "Well, that's exactly what an Antifa agitator would say!"
If you are trying to jam Police communications, being on the ground with a milliwatt power handheld device is the worst choice. Someone with Ham radio experience could easily build a small, 250W RF jammer, powered by a motorcycle battery, pack it all into a metal case the size of a briefcase, and take it to the top of a high rise building to increase the range (because line of sight is a thing at the frequencies used for Police communications).

Then they will have no idea where you are, you are out of the firing line of the Police, where you can jam their communications at your leisure!

As usual, the conspiracy theory scenario is the stupidest, most unlikely scenario of all.
__________________
I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms.
- Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project)
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 03:30 PM   #190
Mader Levap
Graduate Poster
 
Mader Levap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,576
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
As usual, the conspiracy theory scenario is the stupidest, most unlikely scenario of all.
It is almost like it is not scenario created with serious intent, but consciously made up lie to sow confusion, doubt and uncertainty, to muddy water and in this way make it less damning to thugs in police uniforms.

Basically, ChrisBFRPKY is full of it and knows it.
__________________
Sanity is overrated. / Voting for Republicans is morally equivalent to voting for Nazis in early 30's.
Mader Levap is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 03:30 PM   #191
p0lka
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: near trees, houses and a lake.
Posts: 2,266
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Do you agree the BBC report determines he was holding a phone in his hand?



Same question, do you agree the BBC determines he was holding a phone in his hand?

Chris B.
I asked a question,

Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
There's a difference between not accepting a claim, and making a claim of your own.
They didn't determine(make a claim) he was not trying to scan police devices,
they said "We've seen no evidence to suggest he was trying to scan police devices."
Would you agree that there's a difference?
an answer would would be nice, then the discussion can move forward.
p0lka is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 04:47 PM   #192
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 50,639
Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
I asked a question,


an answer would would be nice, then the discussion can move forward.
To me it reads like meaningless filler. It's supposed to give the impression that something important has been said, but in reality... nothing has been said.

It's a subjective inference, an opinion of the reporter. But nobody cares about the reporter's opinion. If all they're going to report is "I'm not sure, but I don't think it happened", then why even bother?

The sad thing is, there's someone out there right now citing this "claim" as evidence that the guy wasn't doing the thing.

The nice thing about reporting facts is that it limits reporter bias. The crappy thing about reporting the reporter's own opinions is that it pretty much guarantees bias. The last thing anybody needs in a news report is the reporter saying, "I didn't see anything that makes me think that it happened."

But as we all know, the reporter is not our friend.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 05:00 PM   #193
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 17,219
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The sad thing is, there's someone out there right now citing this "claim" as evidence that the guy wasn't doing the thing.
No, the sad thing is that we live in the kind of ****** up world where this sort of preposterous claim even exists at all.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The nice thing about reporting facts is that it limits reporter bias.
Well actually, it eliminates reporter bias

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The crappy thing about reporting the reporter's own opinions is that it pretty much guarantees bias. The last thing anybody needs in a news report is the reporter saying, "I didn't see anything that makes me think that it happened."
That is a very cynical way of looking at it.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
But as we all know, the reporter is not our friend.
You may think you "know" this, but you don't speak for me!

I consider the reporter my friend, because without the reporter I am not informed, I would have to rely on the words of Trump and his corrupt minions - all proven liars, every one!
__________________
I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms.
- Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project)
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 05:16 PM   #194
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 28,593
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
To me it reads like meaningless filler. It's supposed to give the impression that something important has been said, but in reality... nothing has been said.

It's a subjective inference, an opinion of the reporter. But nobody cares about the reporter's opinion. If all they're going to report is "I'm not sure, but I don't think it happened", then why even bother?

The sad thing is, there's someone out there right now citing this "claim" as evidence that the guy wasn't doing the thing.

The nice thing about reporting facts is that it limits reporter bias. The crappy thing about reporting the reporter's own opinions is that it pretty much guarantees bias. The last thing anybody needs in a news report is the reporter saying, "I didn't see anything that makes me think that it happened."

But as we all know, the reporter is not our friend.
Really weak Prestige. No one said Gugino was doing nothing. Just that the idea that he was scanning police communications traffic as an ANTIFA member is absurd and insulting to one's intelligence based on what we know.

Trump is POTUS. Not some crazy nutjob in a basement somewhere. The tweet was irresponsible and insane for Trump to tweet it.

Trump's stupidity is expected. Defense of Trump's stupidity is expected by nutjobs. It is not expected from anyone with a brain.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.

Last edited by acbytesla; 14th June 2020 at 06:15 PM.
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 05:21 PM   #195
ChrisBFRPKY
Illuminator
 
ChrisBFRPKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,692
Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
I asked a question,


an answer would would be nice, then the discussion can move forward.
Sure. I can agree that there is a difference between the statement "We have seen no evidence of (insert whatever you like here)." and a direct statement like "He was not doing (whatever you don't want him doing here.)

After all, the piece begins with "From the clip, it's not possible to tell what he was doing with the phone".

Now, about the "phone".

Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 05:30 PM   #196
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,232
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Really weak Prestige. No one said Gugino was doing nothing. Just that the idea that he was scanning police communications traffic as an ANTIFA member is absurd and insulting to one's intelligence based on what we know.

Trump is POTUS not some crazy nutjob in a basement somewhere. The tweet was irresponsible and insane for Trump to tweet it.

Trump's stupidity is expected. Defense of Trump's stupidity is expected by nutjobs. It is not expected from anyone with a brain.


I've often wondered what is so attractive about conspiracy theories to some people. What is it that makes them embrace the most outlandish ideas with such fervor? I don't get it. Maybe their lives are just boring and they need the excitement it apparently brings to them.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 05:33 PM   #197
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,232
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Sure. I can agree that there is a difference between the statement "We have seen no evidence of (insert whatever you like here)." and a direct statement like "He was not doing (whatever you don't want him doing here.)

After all, the piece begins with "From the clip, it's not possible to tell what he was doing with the phone".

Now, about the "phone".

Chris B.
Um...no. As I posted before, which you either missed or hand waved away, the first mention of the word "phone" is this:

Quote:
Footage of 75-year-old Martin Gugino shows him approaching police lines holding up what appears to be a mobile phone which he points at one of the officers.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 05:57 PM   #198
MarkCorrigan
Winter is Coming
 
MarkCorrigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,090
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It cracks me up that I'm seeing banners that say

Trump 2020
Enough BS

Enough BS"? Trump BS's more than any human being alive.
Maybe they're extolling it as a virtue? Like "Vote in Trump because he spreads enough BS to go around! The Dems and RINOs dont have nearly enough BS!"
__________________
Naturalism adjusts it's principles to fit with the observed data.
It's a god of the facts world view. -joobz

When I give food to the poor they call me a saint, when I ask why the poor have no food they call me a communist - Hélder Câmara
MarkCorrigan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 06:03 PM   #199
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 28,593
Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
Maybe they're extolling it as a virtue? Like "Vote in Trump because he spreads enough BS to go around! The Dems and RINOs dont have nearly enough BS!"
Maybe.

Kind of like "Got milk"?
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2020, 06:05 PM   #200
MarkCorrigan
Winter is Coming
 
MarkCorrigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,090
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Maybe.

Kind of like "Got milk"?
Exactly. It's a considerably less horrifying an explanation than the alternative.
__________________
Naturalism adjusts it's principles to fit with the observed data.
It's a god of the facts world view. -joobz

When I give food to the poor they call me a saint, when I ask why the poor have no food they call me a communist - Hélder Câmara
MarkCorrigan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:29 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.