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Tags antifa conspiracies , assault incidents , donald trump , Martin Gugino , police incidents , police misconduct charges

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Old 15th June 2020, 11:05 AM   #241
carlitos
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And now you see why finding Bigfoot in blurry photos actually is on topic for this thread.
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Old 15th June 2020, 11:36 AM   #242
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All us antifa are talking about this. Our biggest and most dangerous op has been blown, all thanks to the tireless sleuths at OANN.

Our dastardly plan of sending out old men with slow feet and soft skulls to confront the cops has been foiled.
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Old 15th June 2020, 11:56 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
Gotta admit, it was a very effective red herring.
Yes. Which is exactly why Trump tweeted it in the first place. He knows his base and he knows how to use them to get "his enemies" to start talking about something other than that disastrous photo op debacle and all its implications.

We all need to remember that you cannot reason someone out of something he was not reasoned into in the first place.
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Old 15th June 2020, 12:07 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by jeremyp View Post
Are you seriously trying to suggest that the injury was faked? The liquid was blood and it was pouring out of his ear because he had a fractured skull. He’s still in hospital. Or is it you contention that the hospital is in on the conspiracy?

I seriously hope I’ve misunderstood you - in which case I apologise - because I find it hard to believe anybody could be such a ****.
Since he's stated it was all a setup twice, you're not misunderstanding. As I said, Trump knows his base. Sadly, so do we.
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Old 15th June 2020, 12:28 PM   #245
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Trump's base is certainly something. I mean, wow, the nonsense coming from the apologist in the thread is almost comical.
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Old 15th June 2020, 12:38 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Sure, none of that stuff matters now. After viewing the zoomed in video of the rubber tubes by his right ear there is a liquid flowing out of one of the tubes in a good sized stream to the ground. This liquid was called "blood" by the video camera operator Mr Gugino was speaking with just prior to the incident. It was a setup. Nothing more. Trump is absolutely correct on that part. As for the scanner etc.. who can say? Doesn't really matter.

Chris B.
as for the scanner, I think it really does matter. You say none of it matters now and nobody knows, but Trump says he does know. You say you can't tell and that it would be dishonest to say it was a scanner, but Trump says it was a scanner, without a question.

So which is it? Is it certain there was a scanner, or is the person who claims to be certain lying?

The incident is minor, the discrepancy small, but I think this is actually a very important thing. To put it with undeservedly excessive politeness, I do not think that Mr. Trump's uneasy relationship with the truth is seemly.
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Old 15th June 2020, 12:54 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
as for the scanner, I think it really does matter. You say none of it matters now and nobody knows, but Trump says he does know. You say you can't tell and that it would be dishonest to say it was a scanner, but Trump says it was a scanner, without a question.

So which is it? Is it certain there was a scanner, or is the person who claims to be certain lying?

The incident is minor, the discrepancy small, but I think this is actually a very important thing. To put it with undeservedly excessive politeness, I do not think that Mr. Trump's uneasy relationship with the truth is seemly.
"Buffalo protester shoved by Police could be an ANTIFA provocateur. 75 year old Martin Gugino was pushed away after appearing to scan police communications in order to black out the equipment.
@OANN
I watched, he fell harder than was pushed. Was aiming scanner. Could be a set up?"

President Trump says "appearing to scan" He did not state a fact he states an opinion and left it at that. The BBC "fact checker" went further by stating an opinion as fact. There is a difference?

I'm not sure what kind of information the President was briefed with regarding the incident. I am sure he is likely privy to information the general public may not have. The question: "Could be a set up?" is likely a hint as to what he's already been told. As after viewing the enlarged video I have no doubt whatsoever that the incident was preplanned and staged.

Chris B.

Last edited by ChrisBFRPKY; 15th June 2020 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 15th June 2020, 01:05 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Skipping ahead in this silly thread, is ChrisBFRKY really asking why a person who habitually wears a hearing aid would have it under his mask? Maybe because to work it has to be in his ear, and the mask strap goes over his ear?

As for the issue of who determined what, I think we have lost track of what this thread is about. It is about whether one can defend Trump's tweet, and what Trump says in his tweet includes not simply tendentious and ignorant questions, but actual assertions.

" I watched, he fell harder than was pushed. Was aiming scanner. " is not a question, is not a speculation, is not amenable to the scanty excuses of wondering if Gugino was doing something unlikely or impossible. They are bold faced allegations. They state that the president knew, and is sure, that Gugino threw himself backward, and the obvious accusation that he had a scanner, since you can't aim a scanner unless you have one.

So let's cut the nonsense about wondering what Gugino was holding, or trying to figure out how he wore his hearing aid, and all that ****, and ask again, can anyone defend a statement that includes Trump's bold-faced assertion that the video everyone has seen over and over shows Gugino throwing himself to the ground and operating a scanner?

Further, we know that Trump is a compulsive, habitual and chronic liar. He lies just about every time he opens his mouth. Why should this be any different from the other 19,000+ lies he has told in the last 3+ years?
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Old 15th June 2020, 01:14 PM   #249
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtxAzleH7g

Pearson Sharp knocks it out of the park!

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Old 15th June 2020, 01:21 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
"Buffalo protester shoved by Police could be an ANTIFA provocateur. 75 year old Martin Gugino was pushed away after appearing to scan police communications in order to black out the equipment.
@OANN
I watched, he fell harder than was pushed. Was aiming scanner. Could be a set up?"

President Trump says "appearing to scan" He did not state a fact he states an opinion and left it at that. The BBC "fact checker" went further by stating an opinion as fact. There is a difference?

I'm not sure what kind of information the President was briefed with regarding the incident. I am sure he is likely privy to information the general public may not have. The question: "Could be a set up?" is likely a hint as to what he's already been told. As after viewing the enlarged video I have no doubt whatsoever that the incident was preplanned and staged.

Chris B.
Perhaps I'm misreading the tweet? Who said the sentence highlighted above, and who was responsible for tweeting or retweeting it?
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Old 15th June 2020, 01:38 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Perhaps I'm misreading the tweet? Who said the sentence highlighted above, and who was responsible for tweeting or retweeting it?
Oh, I see now. It is not stating a fact if a BBC fact checker uses a prequalifying statement but it is stating a fact if President Trump does it. See how that works? Thank you.

Chris B.

Last edited by ChrisBFRPKY; 15th June 2020 at 01:39 PM. Reason: added info
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Old 15th June 2020, 01:40 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtxAzleH7g

Pearson Sharp knocks it out of the park!

Chris B.
I opened the link and saw "OAN" in the bottom left corner, whereupon I immediately closed the page, thereby protecting myself from the insult to my brain that will be inflicted by watching and listening to far-right conspiracy theory content.
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Old 15th June 2020, 01:42 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Perhaps I'm misreading the tweet? Who said the sentence highlighted above, and who was responsible for tweeting or retweeting it?
It sure doesn't sound like Trump's words in the first two sentences; like maybe he was quoting a headline and first sentence of a news article? But that's how the Tweet in the OP appears:
Attached Images
File Type: png Screen Shot 2020-06-15 at 3.49.17 PM.png (61.3 KB, 6 views)

Last edited by carlitos; 15th June 2020 at 01:44 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old 15th June 2020, 01:44 PM   #254
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Was it not Trump that said

"I watched, he fell harder than was pushed. Was aiming scanner. Could be a set up?""
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Old 15th June 2020, 01:47 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Oh, I see now. It is not stating a fact if a BBC fact checker uses a prequalifying statement but it is stating a fact if President Trump does it. See how that works? Thank you.

Chris B.
The question in the thread has to with defending what the president said. The president, it appears, averred that the man was aiming a scanner, something you repeatedly contend cannot be honestly claimed. Skip the whatabouts and the yesbuts. Is not the statement that a man was aiming a scanner a statement that the man was aiming a scanner?
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Old 15th June 2020, 01:52 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I wouldn't consider examining evidence as an act of desperation. It's a search for the facts. Don't you like facts? I do.

Here's a pic of him chatting with the guy that took the video a few minutes before the confrontation with police. Notice, no mask, no hearing aid.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ictureid=12531


And here is a pic of his left side:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ictureid=12532

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ictureid=12530

He appears to be wearing 2 masks. One looks like a surgical mask and attaches around the ears with rubber bands. The other appears to be an M5 or similar mask yet instead of attaching around the ears with rubber bands there is a heavy rubber tubing of some sort. Looks like medical grade tubing from the color. Now on the pic of his right ear you can see the tubing was fitted together with the object that is still attached to one piece of the tubing now laying on his ear and the top piece of the unattached tubing is near the front of his ear. These two areas seem to be where the large flow of "blood" is draining from. OK, I'm with Trump on this one. It was a setup. Case closed.

Chris B.

You blindly support Trump on every single thing.

And the case is not closed, you have not come withink a million miles of proving your crazy conspiracy theory.
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Old 15th June 2020, 01:53 PM   #257
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This is what happens when someone tries to defend the undefendable.
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Old 15th June 2020, 02:06 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
This is what happens when someone tries to defend the undefendable.
Begged question aside...

Who here has tried that, though? There's maybe two people in this thread who might be expected to try it. I know I haven't.

I don't think Chris has, either.

ETA: I mean, smartcooky isn't even trying to defend the claim that reporting facts eliminates reporter bias, and that really is indefensible.

Last edited by theprestige; 15th June 2020 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 15th June 2020, 02:11 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Begged question aside...

Who here has tried that, though? There's maybe two people in this thread who might be expected to try it. I know I haven't.

I don't think Chris has, either.

ETA: I mean, smartcooky isn't even trying to defend the claim that reporting facts eliminates reporter bias, and that really is indefensible.
Huh? Surely ye jest. Chris said he stands with Trump on this.

Sorry, Trump's tweet and spurious accusation about Mr. Gugino is truly indefensible. Not only from a basic intellectual process but from a human and moral perspective.
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Old 15th June 2020, 02:17 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Huh? Surely ye jest. Chris said he stands with Trump on this.

Sorry, Trump's tweet and spurious accusation about Mr. Gugino is truly indefensible. Not only from a basic intellectual process but from a human and moral perspective.
m'bad. I went back to Chris's first post and the question he was responding to. Skimming the thread from time to time, what I've seen from him has been arguments on that one point.

Anyway, I'll leave you and dudalb and chris to it.
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Old 15th June 2020, 03:56 PM   #261
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[quote=ChrisBFRPKY;13126277]"Buffalo protester shoved by Police could be an ANTIFA provocateur. 75 year old Martin Gugino was pushed away after appearing to scan police communications in order to black out the equipment.
@OANN
I watched, he fell harder than was pushed. Was aiming scanner. Could be a set up?"
[/qyote]And I know from that the simple fact that the claim is utter bollocks. That is not how it works, that is not how anything works. Perhaps it works that way on planet sausage, but back in the real world, just no. It's absurd. You actually claimed to own and operate an RF scanner. Do you wave it at people? If you do something so pointless, your arrest record would be enormous.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
President Trump says "appearing to scan" He did not state a fact he states an opinion and left it at that.
So Trump made up pointless crap that cannot possibly be true. We all knew that already. Even you should have known it.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
The BBC "fact checker" went further by stating an opinion as fact. There is a difference?
Sure. It is a fact. Seems to me to be a substantial difference

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I'm not sure what kind of information the President was briefed with regarding the incident.
Well, none. Trump is notorious for ignoring any and all briefings

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I am sure he is likely privy to information the general public may not have.
Maybe. That does not include basic phyisics, which Trump seems to not understand. Among others.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
The question: "Could be a set up?" is likely a hint as to what he's already been told.
BS. You should know straight off the bat that it is BS but somehow, you don't.
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
As after viewing the enlarged video I have no doubt whatsoever that the incident was preplanned and staged.
Sure you do. You have no doubt whatsoever about a great many things. But you cannot escape your body of work. That is your doing and yours alone. And you have to live with it.
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Old 15th June 2020, 06:02 PM   #262
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Apparently in the Bizarro world of Trump apologists, saying you're aiming a scanner does not imply that you actually believe there was a scanner.
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Old 15th June 2020, 06:14 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
The question in the thread has to with defending what the president said. The president, it appears, averred that the man was aiming a scanner, something you repeatedly contend cannot be honestly claimed. Skip the whatabouts and the yesbuts. Is not the statement that a man was aiming a scanner a statement that the man was aiming a scanner?
He's allowed his opinion is he not? You are not forced to agree with it just as nobody is forced to agree with yours.

I cannot verify what device the man is holding. I have an opinion of what it could be but there is the end. There is no more evidence to suggest it was a phone than there is to suggest it was a scanning device. Yet nobody seemed to question the BBC fact check.

But President Trump's question about this being a setup is 100% dead on. The tubes leaking "fluid" is evidence shown in the video that does support this was a setup.

Chris B.
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Old 15th June 2020, 06:19 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Apparently in the Bizarro world of Trump apologists, saying you're aiming a scanner does not imply that you actually believe there was a scanner.
And saying you've seen no evidence of something being a specific item equals stating it's definitely not that item.
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Old 15th June 2020, 06:22 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Apparently in the Bizarro world of Trump apologists, saying you're aiming a scanner does not imply that you actually believe there was a scanner.
I've not apologized for anything President Trump has done. I never will. I realize those that do not support the President tend to live in some private world where they feel they are owed something for the 2016 election loss. Or they may live in some other Country and view the US with disgust and or a secret envy with a desire to see it fail. However this seems to be a personal issue with those individuals and has nothing to do with President Trump or myself.

Chris B.
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Old 15th June 2020, 06:27 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I've not apologized for anything President Trump has done. I never will. I realize those that do not support the President tend to live in some private world where they feel they are owed something for the 2016 election loss. Or they may live in some other Country and view the US with disgust and or a secret envy with a desire to see it fail. However this seems to be a personal issue with those individuals and has nothing to do with President Trump or myself.

Chris B.
Trump apologists don't apologize for Trump; that would mean admitting he was wrong. Trump apologists make excuses for his actions and his behavior. They support it no matter how disgusting, petty, bullying and wrong it is.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 15th June 2020 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 15th June 2020, 06:27 PM   #267
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We will add the meaning of “apologist” to the long list of things that Chris does not understand.

See — when you pretend not to understand things, we can pretend to believe you.
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Old 15th June 2020, 06:33 PM   #268
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To be fair, Stacy doesn't understand it either.
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Old 15th June 2020, 06:38 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
He's allowed his opinion is he not? You are not forced to agree with it just as nobody is forced to agree with yours.

I cannot verify what device the man is holding. I have an opinion of what it could be but there is the end. There is no more evidence to suggest it was a phone than there is to suggest it was a scanning device. Yet nobody seemed to question the BBC fact check.

But President Trump's question about this being a setup is 100% dead on. The tubes leaking "fluid" is evidence shown in the video that does support this was a setup.

Chris B.
He's allowed his opinion? To ridiculously and recklessly plant the seeds of a crazy conspiracy theory into the minds of the public? Seriously? The words of the President, any President has tremendous power. Some nutjobs believe anything and everything they say. POTUS can move markets and cause wars simply by their words.

A President is supposed to be responsible and actually care about his citizens and not just the citizens that agree with him.

Trump is totally WRONG. It is DESPICABLE to suggest that it was a setup based on such flimsy non-existent evidence.

You're definitely entitled to express such a stupid and sleazy accusation as this. No one cares what you or I might think. People just roll their eyes. When POTUS does such a thing, morons issue death threats and more.
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Old 15th June 2020, 06:41 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
To be fair, Stacy doesn't understand it either.
In what way do I not understand what a Trump apologist is?

Definition of "apologist":
"one who speaks or writes in defense of someone or something."

When someone makes excuses for Trump's behavior or actions, they are defending it.

Try again. You failed miserably at this one.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 15th June 2020 at 07:11 PM.
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Old 15th June 2020, 06:43 PM   #271
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I've not apologized for anything President Trump has done. I never will. I realize those that do not support the President tend to live in some private world where they feel they are owed something for the 2016 election loss. Or they may live in some other Country and view the US with disgust and or a secret envy with a desire to see it fail. However this seems to be a personal issue with those individuals and has nothing to do with President Trump or myself.

Chris B.
I believe you. Hitler's supporters said similar things. Their man could do no wrong.

Pity.
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Old 15th June 2020, 06:50 PM   #272
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I've not apologized for anything President Trump has done. I never will. I realize those that do not support the President tend to live in some private world where they feel they are owed something for the 2016 election loss. Or they may live in some other Country and view the US with disgust and or a secret envy with a desire to see it fail. However this seems to be a personal issue with those individuals and has nothing to do with President Trump or myself.

Chris B.
WTF? That is beyond ludicrous. I'm owed nothing from the 2016 election loss. I have no idea how much, if any, influence the Russian interference actually had on the outcome. I accept that Trump was duly and lawfully elected due to the electoral system. While I think the electoral system is antiquated and unfair, I recognize the legitimacy of the Trump presidency no matter how much it (and he) he disgusts me.
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Old 15th June 2020, 08:04 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtxAzleH7g

Pearson Sharp knocks it out of the park!

Chris B.
That was a complete waste of time. Don't bother watching it. Challenges people to prove them wrong when they haven't proved their claims in the first place.
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Old 15th June 2020, 08:11 PM   #274
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"Don't take Trump literally or seriously".
but you owe him allegiance!
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Old 15th June 2020, 09:29 PM   #275
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In one of the video clips you can hear the awful crack of Mr. Gugino's head hitting the pavement. I've heard the very same sound from close up on two occasions. Once when a childhood friend fell down a cliff, and the other when an old neighbor was drunk and planked on the road.

To suggest an old man is going to engage in the terrible risk of faking a head injury by installing a fake blood delivery system (from the EAR, implying a PLANNED SKULL FRACTURE simulation), and having to be convincing enough at the act without actually endangering his life, is to say he was actually kind of suicidal. AND he'd still have to make invisible to anyone attending to him the 'blood' pack and 'tube' in order to pull it off. AND he'd have to devise a means of releasing the 'blood' on command, reliably, without the use of hands.

Ah, but was he ever so clever in bringing it all together. His 'scanner' must really have been a device to make the sound of a head cracking against concrete, and also to trigger the fake blood. And he had the ambulance attendants and hospital staff in on the gag, keeping him in intensive care for days on end--or saying he was there.

Yep, it can only be the most complex operation involving a bunch of conspirators that explains what we saw on video. Certainly not the simpler case that an old man was not expecting to be shoved, then stumbled, fell, and fractured his coconut. Nah, can't be *that* simple.
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Old 15th June 2020, 09:50 PM   #276
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
In one of the video clips you can hear the awful crack of Mr. Gugino's head hitting the pavement. I've heard the very same sound from close up on two occasions. Once when a childhood friend fell down a cliff, and the other when an old neighbor was drunk and planked on the road.

To suggest an old man is going to engage in the terrible risk of faking a head injury by installing a fake blood delivery system (from the EAR, implying a PLANNED SKULL FRACTURE simulation), and having to be convincing enough at the act without actually endangering his life, is to say he was actually kind of suicidal. AND he'd still have to make invisible to anyone attending to him the 'blood' pack and 'tube' in order to pull it off. AND he'd have to devise a means of releasing the 'blood' on command, reliably, without the use of hands.

Ah, but was he ever so clever in bringing it all together. His 'scanner' must really have been a device to make the sound of a head cracking against concrete, and also to trigger the fake blood. And he had the ambulance attendants and hospital staff in on the gag, keeping him in intensive care for days on end--or saying he was there.

Yep, it can only be the most complex operation involving a bunch of conspirators that explains what we saw on video
. Certainly not the simpler case that an old man was not expecting to be shoved, then stumbled, fell, and fractured his coconut. Nah, can't be *that* simple.

Indeed!

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Old 15th June 2020, 09:54 PM   #277
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
In what way do I not understand what a Trump apologist is?

Definition of "apologist":
"one who speaks or writes in defense of someone or something."

When someone makes excuses for Trump's behavior or actions, they are defending it.

Try again. You failed miserably at this one.
Somewhat limited.
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If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

Last edited by smartcooky; 15th June 2020 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 16th June 2020, 05:35 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Sure, none of that stuff matters now. After viewing the zoomed in video of the rubber tubes by his right ear there is a liquid flowing out of one of the tubes in a good sized stream to the ground. This liquid was called "blood" by the video camera operator Mr Gugino was speaking with just prior to the incident. It was a setup. Nothing more. Trump is absolutely correct on that part. As for the scanner etc.. who can say? Doesn't really matter.

Chris B.
So what if it was a set-up? If it was such an obvious set-up why did the police fall for it in such an epic fashion? While we're on the topic. what section of New York law permits a police officer to use less lethal force on a passive, non-compliant protestor? Was there not a come-along the officer cold have used? While we're on that topic, what section of law gave the police the authority to remove the man from where he was standing in the first place? He was on a sidewalk.

The man with the hide of one of your furry, forest friends stapled to his scalp keeps talking about law and order. Okay, what made what happened to that man within the law?
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Old 16th June 2020, 05:38 AM   #279
Craig4
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
He's allowed his opinion is he not? You are not forced to agree with it just as nobody is forced to agree with yours.

I cannot verify what device the man is holding. I have an opinion of what it could be but there is the end. There is no more evidence to suggest it was a phone than there is to suggest it was a scanning device. Yet nobody seemed to question the BBC fact check.

But President Trump's question about this being a setup is 100% dead on. The tubes leaking "fluid" is evidence shown in the video that does support this was a setup.

Chris B.
You are incorrect. There are no tubes. You need to retract your claim.
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Old 16th June 2020, 05:38 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
"Don't take Trump literally or seriously"

but you owe him allegiance!
It really is seriously amazing how we have this massive cult of personality that's willing to follow this lunatic into the abyss and drag all of us with him with almost religious dedication... yet nobody seems to actually like it him or "get" him.
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