Trump Supporters: Can you defend this? - Page 7

carlitos · 15th June 2020, 11:05 AM

And now you see why finding Bigfoot in blurry photos actually is on topic for this thread.

SuburbanTurkey · 15th June 2020, 11:36 AM

All us antifa are talking about this. Our biggest and most dangerous op has been blown, all thanks to the tireless sleuths at OANN.

Our dastardly plan of sending out old men with slow feet and soft skulls to confront the cops has been foiled.

Stacyhs · 15th June 2020, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

Gotta admit, it was a very effective red herring.

Yes. Which is exactly why Trump tweeted it in the first place. He knows his base and he knows how to use them to get "his enemies" to start talking about something other than that disastrous photo op debacle and all its implications.

We all need to remember that you cannot reason someone out of something he was not reasoned into in the first place.

Stacyhs · 15th June 2020, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by jeremyp

Are you seriously trying to suggest that the injury was faked? The liquid was blood and it was pouring out of his ear because he had a fractured skull. He’s still in hospital. Or is it you contention that the hospital is in on the conspiracy?

I seriously hope I’ve misunderstood you - in which case I apologise - because I find it hard to believe anybody could be such a ****.

Since he's stated it was all a setup twice, you're not misunderstanding. As I said, Trump knows his base. Sadly, so do we.

thaiboxerken · 15th June 2020, 12:28 PM

Trump's base is certainly something. I mean, wow, the nonsense coming from the apologist in the thread is almost comical.

bruto · 15th June 2020, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Sure, none of that stuff matters now. After viewing the zoomed in video of the rubber tubes by his right ear there is a liquid flowing out of one of the tubes in a good sized stream to the ground. This liquid was called "blood" by the video camera operator Mr Gugino was speaking with just prior to the incident. It was a setup. Nothing more. Trump is absolutely correct on that part. As for the scanner etc.. who can say? Doesn't really matter.

Chris B.

as for the scanner, I think it really does matter. You say none of it matters now and nobody knows, but Trump says he does know. You say you can't tell and that it would be dishonest to say it was a scanner, but Trump says it was a scanner, without a question.

So which is it? Is it certain there was a scanner, or is the person who claims to be certain lying?

The incident is minor, the discrepancy small, but I think this is actually a very important thing. To put it with undeservedly excessive politeness, I do not think that Mr. Trump's uneasy relationship with the truth is seemly.

ChrisBFRPKY · 15th June 2020, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by bruto

as for the scanner, I think it really does matter. You say none of it matters now and nobody knows, but Trump says he does know. You say you can't tell and that it would be dishonest to say it was a scanner, but Trump says it was a scanner, without a question.

So which is it? Is it certain there was a scanner, or is the person who claims to be certain lying?

The incident is minor, the discrepancy small, but I think this is actually a very important thing. To put it with undeservedly excessive politeness, I do not think that Mr. Trump's uneasy relationship with the truth is seemly.

"Buffalo protester shoved by Police could be an ANTIFA provocateur. 75 year old Martin Gugino was pushed away after appearing to scan police communications in order to black out the equipment.
@OANN
I watched, he fell harder than was pushed. Was aiming scanner. Could be a set up?"

President Trump says "appearing to scan" He did not state a fact he states an opinion and left it at that. The BBC "fact checker" went further by stating an opinion as fact. There is a difference?

I'm not sure what kind of information the President was briefed with regarding the incident. I am sure he is likely privy to information the general public may not have. The question: "Could be a set up?" is likely a hint as to what he's already been told. As after viewing the enlarged video I have no doubt whatsoever that the incident was preplanned and staged.

Chris B.

smartcooky · 15th June 2020, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by bruto

Skipping ahead in this silly thread, is ChrisBFRKY really asking why a person who habitually wears a hearing aid would have it under his mask? Maybe because to work it has to be in his ear, and the mask strap goes over his ear?

As for the issue of who determined what, I think we have lost track of what this thread is about. It is about whether one can defend Trump's tweet, and what Trump says in his tweet includes not simply tendentious and ignorant questions, but actual assertions.

" I watched, he fell harder than was pushed. Was aiming scanner. " is not a question, is not a speculation, is not amenable to the scanty excuses of wondering if Gugino was doing something unlikely or impossible. They are bold faced allegations. They state that the president knew, and is sure, that Gugino threw himself backward, and the obvious accusation that he had a scanner, since you can't aim a scanner unless you have one.

So let's cut the nonsense about wondering what Gugino was holding, or trying to figure out how he wore his hearing aid, and all that ****, and ask again, can anyone defend a statement that includes Trump's bold-faced assertion that the video everyone has seen over and over shows Gugino throwing himself to the ground and operating a scanner?

Further, we know that Trump is a compulsive, habitual and chronic liar. He lies just about every time he opens his mouth. Why should this be any different from the other 19,000+ lies he has told in the last 3+ years?

ChrisBFRPKY · 15th June 2020, 01:14 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtxAzleH7g

Pearson Sharp knocks it out of the park!

Chris B.

bruto · 15th June 2020, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

"Buffalo protester shoved by Police could be an ANTIFA provocateur. 75 year old Martin Gugino was pushed away after appearing to scan police communications in order to black out the equipment.
@OANN
I watched, he fell harder than was pushed. Was aiming scanner. Could be a set up?"

President Trump says "appearing to scan" He did not state a fact he states an opinion and left it at that. The BBC "fact checker" went further by stating an opinion as fact. There is a difference?

I'm not sure what kind of information the President was briefed with regarding the incident. I am sure he is likely privy to information the general public may not have. The question: "Could be a set up?" is likely a hint as to what he's already been told. As after viewing the enlarged video I have no doubt whatsoever that the incident was preplanned and staged.

Chris B.

Perhaps I'm misreading the tweet? Who said the sentence highlighted above, and who was responsible for tweeting or retweeting it?

ChrisBFRPKY · 15th June 2020, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by bruto

Perhaps I'm misreading the tweet? Who said the sentence highlighted above, and who was responsible for tweeting or retweeting it?

Oh, I see now. It is not stating a fact if a BBC fact checker uses a prequalifying statement but it is stating a fact if President Trump does it. See how that works? Thank you.

Chris B.

smartcooky · 15th June 2020, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtxAzleH7g

Pearson Sharp knocks it out of the park!

Chris B.

I opened the link and saw "OAN" in the bottom left corner, whereupon I immediately closed the page, thereby protecting myself from the insult to my brain that will be inflicted by watching and listening to far-right conspiracy theory content.

carlitos · 15th June 2020, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by bruto

Perhaps I'm misreading the tweet? Who said the sentence highlighted above, and who was responsible for tweeting or retweeting it?

It sure doesn't sound like Trump's words in the first two sentences; like maybe he was quoting a headline and first sentence of a news article? But that's how the Tweet in the OP appears:

dmaker · 15th June 2020, 01:44 PM

Was it not Trump that said

"I watched, he fell harder than was pushed. Was aiming scanner. Could be a set up?""

bruto · 15th June 2020, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Oh, I see now. It is not stating a fact if a BBC fact checker uses a prequalifying statement but it is stating a fact if President Trump does it. See how that works? Thank you.

Chris B.

The question in the thread has to with defending what the president said. The president, it appears, averred that the man was aiming a scanner, something you repeatedly contend cannot be honestly claimed. Skip the whatabouts and the yesbuts. Is not the statement that a man was aiming a scanner a statement that the man was aiming a scanner?

dudalb · 15th June 2020, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

I wouldn't consider examining evidence as an act of desperation. It's a search for the facts. Don't you like facts? I do.

Here's a pic of him chatting with the guy that took the video a few minutes before the confrontation with police. Notice, no mask, no hearing aid.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ictureid=12531

And here is a pic of his left side:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ictureid=12532

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ictureid=12530

He appears to be wearing 2 masks. One looks like a surgical mask and attaches around the ears with rubber bands. The other appears to be an M5 or similar mask yet instead of attaching around the ears with rubber bands there is a heavy rubber tubing of some sort. Looks like medical grade tubing from the color. Now on the pic of his right ear you can see the tubing was fitted together with the object that is still attached to one piece of the tubing now laying on his ear and the top piece of the unattached tubing is near the front of his ear. These two areas seem to be where the large flow of "blood" is draining from. OK, I'm with Trump on this one. It was a setup. Case closed.

Chris B.

You blindly support Trump on every single thing.

And the case is not closed, you have not come withink a million miles of proving your crazy conspiracy theory.

dudalb · 15th June 2020, 01:53 PM

This is what happens when someone tries to defend the undefendable.

theprestige · 15th June 2020, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

This is what happens when someone tries to defend the undefendable.

Begged question aside...

Who here has tried that, though? There's maybe two people in this thread who might be expected to try it. I know I haven't.

I don't think Chris has, either.

ETA: I mean, smartcooky isn't even trying to defend the claim that reporting facts eliminates reporter bias, and that really is indefensible.

acbytesla · 15th June 2020, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Begged question aside...

Who here has tried that, though? There's maybe two people in this thread who might be expected to try it. I know I haven't.

I don't think Chris has, either.

ETA: I mean, smartcooky isn't even trying to defend the claim that reporting facts eliminates reporter bias, and that really is indefensible.

Huh? Surely ye jest. Chris said he stands with Trump on this.

Sorry, Trump's tweet and spurious accusation about Mr. Gugino is truly indefensible. Not only from a basic intellectual process but from a human and moral perspective.

theprestige · 15th June 2020, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Huh? Surely ye jest. Chris said he stands with Trump on this.

Sorry, Trump's tweet and spurious accusation about Mr. Gugino is truly indefensible. Not only from a basic intellectual process but from a human and moral perspective.

m'bad. I went back to Chris's first post and the question he was responding to. Skimming the thread from time to time, what I've seen from him has been arguments on that one point.

Anyway, I'll leave you and dudalb and chris to it.

abaddon · 15th June 2020, 03:56 PM

[quote=ChrisBFRPKY;13126277]"Buffalo protester shoved by Police could be an ANTIFA provocateur. 75 year old Martin Gugino was pushed away after appearing to scan police communications in order to black out the equipment.
@OANN
I watched, he fell harder than was pushed. Was aiming scanner. Could be a set up?"
[/qyote]And I know from that the simple fact that the claim is utter bollocks. That is not how it works, that is not how anything works. Perhaps it works that way on planet sausage, but back in the real world, just no. It's absurd. You actually claimed to own and operate an RF scanner. Do you wave it at people? If you do something so pointless, your arrest record would be enormous.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

President Trump says "appearing to scan" He did not state a fact he states an opinion and left it at that.

So Trump made up pointless crap that cannot possibly be true. We all knew that already. Even you should have known it.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

The BBC "fact checker" went further by stating an opinion as fact. There is a difference?

Sure. It is a fact. Seems to me to be a substantial difference

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

I'm not sure what kind of information the President was briefed with regarding the incident.

Well, none. Trump is notorious for ignoring any and all briefings

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

I am sure he is likely privy to information the general public may not have.

Maybe. That does not include basic phyisics, which Trump seems to not understand. Among others.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

The question: "Could be a set up?" is likely a hint as to what he's already been told.

BS. You should know straight off the bat that it is BS but somehow, you don't.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

As after viewing the enlarged video I have no doubt whatsoever that the incident was preplanned and staged.

Sure you do. You have no doubt whatsoever about a great many things. But you cannot escape your body of work. That is your doing and yours alone. And you have to live with it.

bruto · 15th June 2020, 06:02 PM

Apparently in the Bizarro world of Trump apologists, saying you're aiming a scanner does not imply that you actually believe there was a scanner.

ChrisBFRPKY · 15th June 2020, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by bruto

The question in the thread has to with defending what the president said. The president, it appears, averred that the man was aiming a scanner, something you repeatedly contend cannot be honestly claimed. Skip the whatabouts and the yesbuts. Is not the statement that a man was aiming a scanner a statement that the man was aiming a scanner?

He's allowed his opinion is he not? You are not forced to agree with it just as nobody is forced to agree with yours.

I cannot verify what device the man is holding. I have an opinion of what it could be but there is the end. There is no more evidence to suggest it was a phone than there is to suggest it was a scanning device. Yet nobody seemed to question the BBC fact check.

But President Trump's question about this being a setup is 100% dead on. The tubes leaking "fluid" is evidence shown in the video that does support this was a setup.

Chris B.

Stacyhs · 15th June 2020, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by bruto

Apparently in the Bizarro world of Trump apologists, saying you're aiming a scanner does not imply that you actually believe there was a scanner.

And saying you've seen no evidence of something being a specific item equals stating it's definitely not that item.

ChrisBFRPKY · 15th June 2020, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by bruto

Apparently in the Bizarro world of Trump apologists, saying you're aiming a scanner does not imply that you actually believe there was a scanner.

I've not apologized for anything President Trump has done. I never will. I realize those that do not support the President tend to live in some private world where they feel they are owed something for the 2016 election loss. Or they may live in some other Country and view the US with disgust and or a secret envy with a desire to see it fail. However this seems to be a personal issue with those individuals and has nothing to do with President Trump or myself.

Chris B.

Stacyhs · 15th June 2020, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

I've not apologized for anything President Trump has done. I never will. I realize those that do not support the President tend to live in some private world where they feel they are owed something for the 2016 election loss. Or they may live in some other Country and view the US with disgust and or a secret envy with a desire to see it fail. However this seems to be a personal issue with those individuals and has nothing to do with President Trump or myself.

Chris B.

Trump apologists don't apologize for Trump; that would mean admitting he was wrong. Trump apologists make excuses for his actions and his behavior. They support it no matter how disgusting, petty, bullying and wrong it is.

carlitos · 15th June 2020, 06:27 PM

We will add the meaning of “apologist” to the long list of things that Chris does not understand.

See — when you pretend not to understand things, we can pretend to believe you.

theprestige · 15th June 2020, 06:33 PM

To be fair, Stacy doesn't understand it either.

acbytesla · 15th June 2020, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

He's allowed his opinion is he not? You are not forced to agree with it just as nobody is forced to agree with yours.

I cannot verify what device the man is holding. I have an opinion of what it could be but there is the end. There is no more evidence to suggest it was a phone than there is to suggest it was a scanning device. Yet nobody seemed to question the BBC fact check.

But President Trump's question about this being a setup is 100% dead on. The tubes leaking "fluid" is evidence shown in the video that does support this was a setup.

Chris B.

He's allowed his opinion? To ridiculously and recklessly plant the seeds of a crazy conspiracy theory into the minds of the public? Seriously? The words of the President, any President has tremendous power. Some nutjobs believe anything and everything they say. POTUS can move markets and cause wars simply by their words.

A President is supposed to be responsible and actually care about his citizens and not just the citizens that agree with him.

Trump is totally WRONG. It is DESPICABLE to suggest that it was a setup based on such flimsy non-existent evidence.

You're definitely entitled to express such a stupid and sleazy accusation as this. No one cares what you or I might think. People just roll their eyes. When POTUS does such a thing, morons issue death threats and more.

Stacyhs · 15th June 2020, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

To be fair, Stacy doesn't understand it either.

In what way do I not understand what a Trump apologist is?

Definition of "apologist":
"one who speaks or writes in defense of someone or something."

When someone makes excuses for Trump's behavior or actions, they are defending it.

Try again. You failed miserably at this one.

acbytesla · 15th June 2020, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

I've not apologized for anything President Trump has done. I never will. I realize those that do not support the President tend to live in some private world where they feel they are owed something for the 2016 election loss. Or they may live in some other Country and view the US with disgust and or a secret envy with a desire to see it fail. However this seems to be a personal issue with those individuals and has nothing to do with President Trump or myself.

Chris B.

I believe you. Hitler's supporters said similar things. Their man could do no wrong.

Pity.

Stacyhs · 15th June 2020, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

I've not apologized for anything President Trump has done. I never will. I realize those that do not support the President tend to live in some private world where they feel they are owed something for the 2016 election loss. Or they may live in some other Country and view the US with disgust and or a secret envy with a desire to see it fail. However this seems to be a personal issue with those individuals and has nothing to do with President Trump or myself.

Chris B.

WTF? That is beyond ludicrous. I'm owed nothing from the 2016 election loss. I have no idea how much, if any, influence the Russian interference actually had on the outcome. I accept that Trump was duly and lawfully elected due to the electoral system. While I think the electoral system is antiquated and unfair, I recognize the legitimacy of the Trump presidency no matter how much it (and he) he disgusts me.

a_unique_person · 15th June 2020, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtxAzleH7g

Pearson Sharp knocks it out of the park!

Chris B.

That was a complete waste of time. Don't bother watching it. Challenges people to prove them wrong when they haven't proved their claims in the first place.

The Great Zaganza · 15th June 2020, 08:11 PM

"Don't take Trump literally or seriously".
but you owe him allegiance!

Lurch · 15th June 2020, 09:29 PM

In one of the video clips you can hear the awful crack of Mr. Gugino's head hitting the pavement. I've heard the very same sound from close up on two occasions. Once when a childhood friend fell down a cliff, and the other when an old neighbor was drunk and planked on the road.

To suggest an old man is going to engage in the terrible risk of faking a head injury by installing a fake blood delivery system (from the EAR, implying a PLANNED SKULL FRACTURE simulation), and having to be convincing enough at the act without actually endangering his life, is to say he was actually kind of suicidal. AND he'd still have to make invisible to anyone attending to him the 'blood' pack and 'tube' in order to pull it off. AND he'd have to devise a means of releasing the 'blood' on command, reliably, without the use of hands.

Ah, but was he ever so clever in bringing it all together. His 'scanner' must really have been a device to make the sound of a head cracking against concrete, and also to trigger the fake blood. And he had the ambulance attendants and hospital staff in on the gag, keeping him in intensive care for days on end--or saying he was there.

Yep, it can only be the most complex operation involving a bunch of conspirators that explains what we saw on video. Certainly not the simpler case that an old man was not expecting to be shoved, then stumbled, fell, and fractured his coconut. Nah, can't be *that* simple.

smartcooky · 15th June 2020, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by Lurch

In one of the video clips you can hear the awful crack of Mr. Gugino's head hitting the pavement. I've heard the very same sound from close up on two occasions. Once when a childhood friend fell down a cliff, and the other when an old neighbor was drunk and planked on the road.

To suggest an old man is going to engage in the terrible risk of faking a head injury by installing a fake blood delivery system (from the EAR, implying a PLANNED SKULL FRACTURE simulation), and having to be convincing enough at the act without actually endangering his life, is to say he was actually kind of suicidal. AND he'd still have to make invisible to anyone attending to him the 'blood' pack and 'tube' in order to pull it off. AND he'd have to devise a means of releasing the 'blood' on command, reliably, without the use of hands.

Ah, but was he ever so clever in bringing it all together. His 'scanner' must really have been a device to make the sound of a head cracking against concrete, and also to trigger the fake blood. And he had the ambulance attendants and hospital staff in on the gag, keeping him in intensive care for days on end--or saying he was there.

Yep, it can only be the most complex operation involving a bunch of conspirators that explains what we saw on video. Certainly not the simpler case that an old man was not expecting to be shoved, then stumbled, fell, and fractured his coconut. Nah, can't be *that* simple.

Indeed!

Once you are forced to hypothesise whole new technologies to keep your conspiracy possible, you have stepped over into the realm of magic, requiring of you a deep and abiding faith in things you can never know.
- S. G. Collins

smartcooky · 15th June 2020, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

In what way do I not understand what a Trump apologist is?

Definition of "apologist":
"one who speaks or writes in defense of someone or something."

When someone makes excuses for Trump's behavior or actions, they are defending it.

Try again. You failed miserably at this one.

Somewhat limited.

Craig4 · 16th June 2020, 05:35 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Sure, none of that stuff matters now. After viewing the zoomed in video of the rubber tubes by his right ear there is a liquid flowing out of one of the tubes in a good sized stream to the ground. This liquid was called "blood" by the video camera operator Mr Gugino was speaking with just prior to the incident. It was a setup. Nothing more. Trump is absolutely correct on that part. As for the scanner etc.. who can say? Doesn't really matter.

Chris B.

So what if it was a set-up? If it was such an obvious set-up why did the police fall for it in such an epic fashion? While we're on the topic. what section of New York law permits a police officer to use less lethal force on a passive, non-compliant protestor? Was there not a come-along the officer cold have used? While we're on that topic, what section of law gave the police the authority to remove the man from where he was standing in the first place? He was on a sidewalk.

The man with the hide of one of your furry, forest friends stapled to his scalp keeps talking about law and order. Okay, what made what happened to that man within the law?

Craig4 · 16th June 2020, 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

He's allowed his opinion is he not? You are not forced to agree with it just as nobody is forced to agree with yours.

I cannot verify what device the man is holding. I have an opinion of what it could be but there is the end. There is no more evidence to suggest it was a phone than there is to suggest it was a scanning device. Yet nobody seemed to question the BBC fact check.

But President Trump's question about this being a setup is 100% dead on. The tubes leaking "fluid" is evidence shown in the video that does support this was a setup.

Chris B.

You are incorrect. There are no tubes. You need to retract your claim.

JoeMorgue · 16th June 2020, 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

"Don't take Trump literally or seriously"

but you owe him allegiance!

It really is seriously amazing how we have this massive cult of personality that's willing to follow this lunatic into the abyss and drag all of us with him with almost religious dedication... yet nobody seems to actually like it him or "get" him.

15th June 2020, 11:36 AM	#242
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,540	All us antifa are talking about this. Our biggest and most dangerous op has been blown, all thanks to the tireless sleuths at OANN. Our dastardly plan of sending out old men with slow feet and soft skulls to confront the cops has been foiled.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

15th June 2020, 12:28 PM	#245
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 31,717	Trump's base is certainly something. I mean, wow, the nonsense coming from the apologist in the thread is almost comical.
	__________________ 1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.

15th June 2020, 12:38 PM	#246
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 28,270	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Sure, none of that stuff matters now. After viewing the zoomed in video of the rubber tubes by his right ear there is a liquid flowing out of one of the tubes in a good sized stream to the ground. This liquid was called "blood" by the video camera operator Mr Gugino was speaking with just prior to the incident. It was a setup. Nothing more. Trump is absolutely correct on that part. As for the scanner etc.. who can say? Doesn't really matter. Chris B. as for the scanner, I think it really does matter. You say none of it matters now and nobody knows, but Trump says he does know. You say you can't tell and that it would be dishonest to say it was a scanner, but Trump says it was a scanner, without a question. So which is it? Is it certain there was a scanner, or is the person who claims to be certain lying? The incident is minor, the discrepancy small, but I think this is actually a very important thing. To put it with undeservedly excessive politeness, I do not think that Mr. Trump's uneasy relationship with the truth is seemly.
	__________________ I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)

15th June 2020, 12:54 PM	#247
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Originally Posted by bruto as for the scanner, I think it really does matter. You say none of it matters now and nobody knows, but Trump says he does know. You say you can't tell and that it would be dishonest to say it was a scanner, but Trump says it was a scanner, without a question. So which is it? Is it certain there was a scanner, or is the person who claims to be certain lying? The incident is minor, the discrepancy small, but I think this is actually a very important thing. To put it with undeservedly excessive politeness, I do not think that Mr. Trump's uneasy relationship with the truth is seemly. "Buffalo protester shoved by Police could be an ANTIFA provocateur. 75 year old Martin Gugino was pushed away after appearing to scan police communications in order to black out the equipment. @OANN I watched, he fell harder than was pushed. Was aiming scanner. Could be a set up?" President Trump says "appearing to scan" He did not state a fact he states an opinion and left it at that. The BBC "fact checker" went further by stating an opinion as fact. There is a difference? I'm not sure what kind of information the President was briefed with regarding the incident. I am sure he is likely privy to information the general public may not have. The question: "Could be a set up?" is likely a hint as to what he's already been told. As after viewing the enlarged video I have no doubt whatsoever that the incident was preplanned and staged. Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Last edited by ChrisBFRPKY; 15th June 2020 at 12:58 PM.

15th June 2020, 01:05 PM	#248
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 17,219	Originally Posted by bruto Skipping ahead in this silly thread, is ChrisBFRKY really asking why a person who habitually wears a hearing aid would have it under his mask? Maybe because to work it has to be in his ear, and the mask strap goes over his ear? As for the issue of who determined what, I think we have lost track of what this thread is about. It is about whether one can defend Trump's tweet, and what Trump says in his tweet includes not simply tendentious and ignorant questions, but actual assertions. " I watched, he fell harder than was pushed. Was aiming scanner. " is not a question, is not a speculation, is not amenable to the scanty excuses of wondering if Gugino was doing something unlikely or impossible. They are bold faced allegations. They state that the president knew, and is sure, that Gugino threw himself backward, and the obvious accusation that he had a scanner, since you can't aim a scanner unless you have one. So let's cut the nonsense about wondering what Gugino was holding, or trying to figure out how he wore his hearing aid, and all that ***, and ask again, can anyone defend a statement that includes Trump's bold-faced assertion* that the video everyone has seen over and over shows Gugino throwing himself to the ground and operating a scanner? Further, we know that Trump is a compulsive, habitual and chronic liar. He lies just about every time he opens his mouth. Why should this be any different from the other 19,000+ lies he has told in the last 3+ years?
	__________________ I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms. - Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project) If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

15th June 2020, 11:05 AM	#241
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA! USA! Posts: 22,863	And now you see why finding Bigfoot in blurry photos actually is on topic for this thread.

15th June 2020, 11:56 AM	#243
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,232	Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper Gotta admit, it was a very effective red herring. Yes. Which is exactly why Trump tweeted it in the first place. He knows his base and he knows how to use them to get "his enemies" to start talking about something other than that disastrous photo op debacle and all its implications. We all need to remember that you cannot reason someone out of something he was not reasoned into in the first place.

15th June 2020, 12:07 PM	#244
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,232	Originally Posted by jeremyp Are you seriously trying to suggest that the injury was faked? The liquid was blood and it was pouring out of his ear because he had a fractured skull. He’s still in hospital. Or is it you contention that the hospital is in on the conspiracy? I seriously hope I’ve misunderstood you - in which case I apologise - because I find it hard to believe anybody could be such a ****. Since he's stated it was all a setup twice, you're not misunderstanding. As I said, Trump knows his base. Sadly, so do we.

15th June 2020, 01:14 PM	#249
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtxAzleH7g Pearson Sharp knocks it out of the park! Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692

15th June 2020, 01:21 PM	#250
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 28,270	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY "Buffalo protester shoved by Police could be an ANTIFA provocateur. 75 year old Martin Gugino was pushed away after appearing to scan police communications in order to black out the equipment. @OANN I watched, he fell harder than was pushed. Was aiming scanner. Could be a set up?" President Trump says "appearing to scan" He did not state a fact he states an opinion and left it at that. The BBC "fact checker" went further by stating an opinion as fact. There is a difference? I'm not sure what kind of information the President was briefed with regarding the incident. I am sure he is likely privy to information the general public may not have. The question: "Could be a set up?" is likely a hint as to what he's already been told. As after viewing the enlarged video I have no doubt whatsoever that the incident was preplanned and staged. Chris B. Perhaps I'm misreading the tweet? Who said the sentence highlighted above, and who was responsible for tweeting or retweeting it?
	__________________ I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)

15th June 2020, 01:38 PM	#251
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Originally Posted by bruto Perhaps I'm misreading the tweet? Who said the sentence highlighted above, and who was responsible for tweeting or retweeting it? Oh, I see now. It is not stating a fact if a BBC fact checker uses a prequalifying statement but it is stating a fact if President Trump does it. See how that works? Thank you. Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Last edited by ChrisBFRPKY; 15th June 2020 at 01:39 PM. Reason: added info

15th June 2020, 01:40 PM	#252
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 17,219	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtxAzleH7g Pearson Sharp knocks it out of the park! Chris B. I opened the link and saw "OAN" in the bottom left corner, whereupon I immediately closed the page, thereby protecting myself from the insult to my brain that will be inflicted by watching and listening to far-right conspiracy theory content.
	__________________ I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms. - Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project) If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

15th June 2020, 01:44 PM	#254
dmaker Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,690	Was it not Trump that said "I watched, he fell harder than was pushed. Was aiming scanner. Could be a set up?""

15th June 2020, 01:47 PM	#255
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 28,270	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Oh, I see now. It is not stating a fact if a BBC fact checker uses a prequalifying statement but it is stating a fact if President Trump does it. See how that works? Thank you. Chris B. The question in the thread has to with defending what the president said. The president, it appears, averred that the man was aiming a scanner, something you repeatedly contend cannot be honestly claimed. Skip the whatabouts and the yesbuts. Is not the statement that a man was aiming a scanner a statement that the man was aiming a scanner?
	__________________ I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)

15th June 2020, 01:52 PM	#256
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,583	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY I wouldn't consider examining evidence as an act of desperation. It's a search for the facts. Don't you like facts? I do. Here's a pic of him chatting with the guy that took the video a few minutes before the confrontation with police. Notice, no mask, no hearing aid. http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ictureid=12531 And here is a pic of his left side: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ictureid=12532 http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ictureid=12530 He appears to be wearing 2 masks. One looks like a surgical mask and attaches around the ears with rubber bands. The other appears to be an M5 or similar mask yet instead of attaching around the ears with rubber bands there is a heavy rubber tubing of some sort. Looks like medical grade tubing from the color. Now on the pic of his right ear you can see the tubing was fitted together with the object that is still attached to one piece of the tubing now laying on his ear and the top piece of the unattached tubing is near the front of his ear. These two areas seem to be where the large flow of "blood" is draining from. OK, I'm with Trump on this one. It was a setup. Case closed. Chris B. You blindly support Trump on every single thing. And the case is not closed, you have not come withink a million miles of proving your crazy conspiracy theory.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

15th June 2020, 01:53 PM	#257
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,583	This is what happens when someone tries to defend the undefendable.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

15th June 2020, 02:06 PM	#258
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 50,639	Originally Posted by dudalb This is what happens when someone tries to defend the undefendable. Begged question aside... Who here has tried that, though? There's maybe two people in this thread who might be expected to try it. I know I haven't. I don't think Chris has, either. ETA: I mean, smartcooky isn't even trying to defend the claim that reporting facts eliminates reporter bias, and that really is indefensible.
	Last edited by theprestige; 15th June 2020 at 02:08 PM.

15th June 2020, 02:11 PM	#259
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,593	Originally Posted by theprestige Begged question aside... Who here has tried that, though? There's maybe two people in this thread who might be expected to try it. I know I haven't. I don't think Chris has, either. ETA: I mean, smartcooky isn't even trying to defend the claim that reporting facts eliminates reporter bias, and that really is indefensible. Huh? Surely ye jest. Chris said he stands with Trump on this. Sorry, Trump's tweet and spurious accusation about Mr. Gugino is truly indefensible. Not only from a basic intellectual process but from a human and moral perspective.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

15th June 2020, 02:17 PM	#260
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 50,639	Originally Posted by acbytesla Huh? Surely ye jest. Chris said he stands with Trump on this. Sorry, Trump's tweet and spurious accusation about Mr. Gugino is truly indefensible. Not only from a basic intellectual process but from a human and moral perspective. m'bad. I went back to Chris's first post and the question he was responding to. Skimming the thread from time to time, what I've seen from him has been arguments on that one point. Anyway, I'll leave you and dudalb and chris to it.

15th June 2020, 03:56 PM	#261
abaddon Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Republic of Ireland Posts: 21,482	[quote=ChrisBFRPKY;13126277]"Buffalo protester shoved by Police could be an ANTIFA provocateur. 75 year old Martin Gugino was pushed away after appearing to scan police communications in order to black out the equipment. @OANN I watched, he fell harder than was pushed. Was aiming scanner. Could be a set up?" [/qyote]And I know from that the simple fact that the claim is utter bollocks. That is not how it works, that is not how anything works. Perhaps it works that way on planet sausage, but back in the real world, just no. It's absurd. You actually claimed to own and operate an RF scanner. Do you wave it at people? If you do something so pointless, your arrest record would be enormous. Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY President Trump says "appearing to scan" He did not state a fact he states an opinion and left it at that. So Trump made up pointless crap that cannot possibly be true. We all knew that already. Even you should have known it. Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY The BBC "fact checker" went further by stating an opinion as fact. There is a difference? Sure. It is a fact. Seems to me to be a substantial difference Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY I'm not sure what kind of information the President was briefed with regarding the incident. Well, none. Trump is notorious for ignoring any and all briefings Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY I am sure he is likely privy to information the general public may not have. Maybe. That does not include basic phyisics, which Trump seems to not understand. Among others. Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY The question: "Could be a set up?" is likely a hint as to what he's already been told. BS. You should know straight off the bat that it is BS but somehow, you don't. Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY As after viewing the enlarged video I have no doubt whatsoever that the incident was preplanned and staged. Sure you do. You have no doubt whatsoever about a great many things. But you cannot escape your body of work. That is your doing and yours alone. And you have to live with it.
	__________________ Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes...

15th June 2020, 06:02 PM	#262
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 28,270	Apparently in the Bizarro world of Trump apologists, saying you're aiming a scanner does not imply that you actually believe there was a scanner.
	__________________ I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)

15th June 2020, 06:14 PM	#263
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Originally Posted by bruto The question in the thread has to with defending what the president said. The president, it appears, averred that the man was aiming a scanner, something you repeatedly contend cannot be honestly claimed. Skip the whatabouts and the yesbuts. Is not the statement that a man was aiming a scanner a statement that the man was aiming a scanner? He's allowed his opinion is he not? You are not forced to agree with it just as nobody is forced to agree with yours. I cannot verify what device the man is holding. I have an opinion of what it could be but there is the end. There is no more evidence to suggest it was a phone than there is to suggest it was a scanning device. Yet nobody seemed to question the BBC fact check. But President Trump's question about this being a setup is 100% dead on. The tubes leaking "fluid" is evidence shown in the video that does support this was a setup. Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692

15th June 2020, 06:19 PM	#264
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,232	Originally Posted by bruto Apparently in the Bizarro world of Trump apologists, saying you're aiming a scanner does not imply that you actually believe there was a scanner. And saying you've seen no evidence of something being a specific item equals stating it's definitely not that item.

15th June 2020, 06:22 PM	#265
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Originally Posted by bruto Apparently in the Bizarro world of Trump apologists, saying you're aiming a scanner does not imply that you actually believe there was a scanner. I've not apologized for anything President Trump has done. I never will. I realize those that do not support the President tend to live in some private world where they feel they are owed something for the 2016 election loss. Or they may live in some other Country and view the US with disgust and or a secret envy with a desire to see it fail. However this seems to be a personal issue with those individuals and has nothing to do with President Trump or myself. Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692

15th June 2020, 06:27 PM	#266
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,232	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY I've not apologized for anything President Trump has done. I never will. I realize those that do not support the President tend to live in some private world where they feel they are owed something for the 2016 election loss. Or they may live in some other Country and view the US with disgust and or a secret envy with a desire to see it fail. However this seems to be a personal issue with those individuals and has nothing to do with President Trump or myself. Chris B. Trump apologists don't apologize for Trump; that would mean admitting he was wrong. Trump apologists make excuses for his actions and his behavior. They support it no matter how disgusting, petty, bullying and wrong it is.
	Last edited by Stacyhs; 15th June 2020 at 06:29 PM.

15th June 2020, 06:27 PM	#267
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA! USA! Posts: 22,863	We will add the meaning of “apologist” to the long list of things that Chris does not understand. See — when you pretend not to understand things, we can pretend to believe you.

15th June 2020, 06:33 PM	#268
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 50,639	To be fair, Stacy doesn't understand it either.

15th June 2020, 06:38 PM	#269
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,593	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY He's allowed his opinion is he not? You are not forced to agree with it just as nobody is forced to agree with yours. I cannot verify what device the man is holding. I have an opinion of what it could be but there is the end. There is no more evidence to suggest it was a phone than there is to suggest it was a scanning device. Yet nobody seemed to question the BBC fact check. But President Trump's question about this being a setup is 100% dead on. The tubes leaking "fluid" is evidence shown in the video that does support this was a setup. Chris B. He's allowed his opinion? To ridiculously and recklessly plant the seeds of a crazy conspiracy theory into the minds of the public? Seriously? The words of the President, any President has tremendous power. Some nutjobs believe anything and everything they say. POTUS can move markets and cause wars simply by their words. A President is supposed to be responsible and actually care about his citizens and not just the citizens that agree with him. Trump is totally WRONG. It is DESPICABLE to suggest that it was a setup based on such flimsy non-existent evidence. You're definitely entitled to express such a stupid and sleazy accusation as this. No one cares what you or I might think. People just roll their eyes. When POTUS does such a thing, morons issue death threats and more.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . Last edited by acbytesla; 15th June 2020 at 06:40 PM.

15th June 2020, 06:41 PM	#270
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,232	Originally Posted by theprestige To be fair, Stacy doesn't understand it either. In what way do I not understand what a Trump apologist is? Definition of "apologist": "one who speaks or writes in defense of someone or something." When someone makes excuses for Trump's behavior or actions, they are defending it. Try again. You failed miserably at this one.
	Last edited by Stacyhs; 15th June 2020 at 07:11 PM.

15th June 2020, 06:43 PM	#271
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,593	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY I've not apologized for anything President Trump has done. I never will. I realize those that do not support the President tend to live in some private world where they feel they are owed something for the 2016 election loss. Or they may live in some other Country and view the US with disgust and or a secret envy with a desire to see it fail. However this seems to be a personal issue with those individuals and has nothing to do with President Trump or myself. Chris B. I believe you. Hitler's supporters said similar things. Their man could do no wrong. Pity.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

15th June 2020, 06:50 PM	#272
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,232	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY I've not apologized for anything President Trump has done. I never will. I realize those that do not support the President tend to live in some private world where they feel they are owed something for the 2016 election loss. Or they may live in some other Country and view the US with disgust and or a secret envy with a desire to see it fail. However this seems to be a personal issue with those individuals and has nothing to do with President Trump or myself. Chris B. WTF? That is beyond ludicrous. I'm owed nothing from the 2016 election loss. I have no idea how much, if any, influence the Russian interference actually had on the outcome. I accept that Trump was duly and lawfully elected due to the electoral system. While I think the electoral system is antiquated and unfair, I recognize the legitimacy of the Trump presidency no matter how much it (and he) he disgusts me.

15th June 2020, 08:04 PM	#273
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 43,088	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDtxAzleH7g Pearson Sharp knocks it out of the park! Chris B. That was a complete waste of time. Don't bother watching it. Challenges people to prove them wrong when they haven't proved their claims in the first place.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos Last edited by a_unique_person; 15th June 2020 at 08:07 PM.

15th June 2020, 08:11 PM	#274
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,874	"Don't take Trump literally or seriously". but you owe him allegiance!
	__________________ The things that you're liable To read in the Bible It ain't necessarily so

15th June 2020, 09:29 PM	#275
Lurch Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Ottawa Posts: 1,667	In one of the video clips you can hear the awful crack of Mr. Gugino's head hitting the pavement. I've heard the very same sound from close up on two occasions. Once when a childhood friend fell down a cliff, and the other when an old neighbor was drunk and planked on the road. To suggest an old man is going to engage in the terrible risk of faking a head injury by installing a fake blood delivery system (from the EAR, implying a PLANNED SKULL FRACTURE simulation), and having to be convincing enough at the act without actually endangering his life, is to say he was actually kind of suicidal. AND he'd still have to make invisible to anyone attending to him the 'blood' pack and 'tube' in order to pull it off. AND he'd have to devise a means of releasing the 'blood' on command, reliably, without the use of hands. Ah, but was he ever so clever in bringing it all together. His 'scanner' must really have been a device to make the sound of a head cracking against concrete, and also to trigger the fake blood. And he had the ambulance attendants and hospital staff in on the gag, keeping him in intensive care for days on end--or saying he was there. Yep, it can only be the most complex operation involving a bunch of conspirators that explains what we saw on video. Certainly not the simpler case that an old man was not expecting to be shoved, then stumbled, fell, and fractured his coconut. Nah, can't be that simple.

15th June 2020, 09:50 PM	#276
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 17,219	Originally Posted by Lurch In one of the video clips you can hear the awful crack of Mr. Gugino's head hitting the pavement. I've heard the very same sound from close up on two occasions. Once when a childhood friend fell down a cliff, and the other when an old neighbor was drunk and planked on the road. To suggest an old man is going to engage in the terrible risk of faking a head injury by installing a fake blood delivery system (from the EAR, implying a PLANNED SKULL FRACTURE simulation), and having to be convincing enough at the act without actually endangering his life, is to say he was actually kind of suicidal. AND he'd still have to make invisible to anyone attending to him the 'blood' pack and 'tube' in order to pull it off. AND he'd have to devise a means of releasing the 'blood' on command, reliably, without the use of hands. Ah, but was he ever so clever in bringing it all together. His 'scanner' must really have been a device to make the sound of a head cracking against concrete, and also to trigger the fake blood. And he had the ambulance attendants and hospital staff in on the gag, keeping him in intensive care for days on end--or saying he was there. Yep, it can only be the most complex operation involving a bunch of conspirators that explains what we saw on video. Certainly not the simpler case that an old man was not expecting to be shoved, then stumbled, fell, and fractured his coconut. Nah, can't be that simple. Indeed! Once you are forced to hypothesise whole new technologies to keep your conspiracy possible, you have stepped over into the realm of magic, requiring of you a deep and abiding faith in things you can never know. - S. G. Collins
	__________________ I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms. - Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project) If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! ! Last edited by smartcooky; 15th June 2020 at 09:51 PM.