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Tags Kyle Rittenhouse , murder cases

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Old 4th January 2021, 06:10 AM   #481
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Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly View Post
Setting aside everything else, how is this much different than saying "This is all on her. If she hadn't gone looking for trouble by walking down a dark alley dressed in skimpy clothing, this rape never would have happened"?
Wow. Just wow. That is breathtakingly stupid. Are you actually equating a rape victim to someone who travelled to a protest and shot people?
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Old 4th January 2021, 08:00 AM   #482
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
I am scoffing --- why this charge? I don't get it. Is that the fall-back position of the prosecution for a plea deal?
Yep obeying the law is for other people. Just think if the cops had actually enforced the laws he was breaking against him he would be all well and good now too. Well asside from those felony weapons charges but who ever expects white people to obey gun laws?
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Old 4th January 2021, 08:05 AM   #483
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Right, and Master Rittenhouse was not in compliance with the hunting regs, which might have provided him an exemption. We've been through all this.
Nonsense he was hunting the most dangerous game that night after all. So that gets him out of the weapons charges.
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Old 4th January 2021, 08:21 AM   #484
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Not only did he not have any LEO training, he made a bogus claim to be a trained and qualified EMT. In Illinois, you have to be 18 to apply for and begin training as an EMT.
That is probably not true, I started and EMT course in NY before I turned 18. I just had to turn 18 before the test for certification. But he is certainly not an EMT.
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Old 4th January 2021, 08:24 AM   #485
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Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly View Post
Setting aside everything else, how is this much different than saying "This is all on her. If she hadn't gone looking for trouble by walking down a dark alley dressed in skimpy clothing, this rape never would have happened"?
Well for starters that would have to be a crime for it to pass first rounds of comparison.

I know many people here think that schools and all public spaces should allow children to pack heat for protection. See the support for the Kinder Guardians program.

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Old 4th January 2021, 03:45 PM   #486
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
Wow. Just wow. That is breathtakingly stupid. Are you actually equating a rape victim to someone who travelled to a protest and shot people?
There is a difference between equating and comparing. Your avoidance of the actual point is duly noted, as is your flair for the dramatic ("breathtakingly" and the rare unironic "Wow. Just wow.")

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Old 4th January 2021, 03:50 PM   #487
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Sad that I have to explain this to you..

"She" wasn't armed with an assault rifle

"She" didn't kill anyone

Glad I could help
You didn't help. The point is that the foolish or illegal actions of one person (and I am very willing to acknowledge Rittenhouse's stupid or illegal actions) do not absolve others of their own stupid or illegal actions.
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Old 4th January 2021, 04:02 PM   #488
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Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly View Post
You didn't help. The point is that the foolish or illegal actions of one person (and I am very willing to acknowledge Rittenhouse's stupid or illegal actions) do not absolve others of their own stupid or illegal actions.
Its not so much a question of absolving as irrelevance. What groups Rittenhouse's victims belonged to, or their police records, simply doesn't matter. Nor does their conduct during a riot, really. I mean, the ticket price of joining in a violent protest is that you have to check your halo at the gate. You're all bad guys. Kyle couldn't hang, so he shot everyone who got in his face. It don't work that way. That ultimately makes him far worse than the rest, by a long shot. Or at least by point blank shot with a people-killing .223.
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Old 4th January 2021, 04:10 PM   #489
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Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly View Post
You didn't help. The point is that the foolish or illegal actions of one person (and I am very willing to acknowledge Rittenhouse's stupid or illegal actions) do not absolve others of their own stupid or illegal actions.
Last time I looked, a woman "dressing provocatively" is not breaking any Laws.
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Old 4th January 2021, 05:47 PM   #490
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I've just recently started following this thread and at the risk of being seen as trying a fringe reset (i'm not), I'm trying to see if I'm gathering this correctly:

17 year-old kid shows up at a riot open carrying rifle he has no legal right to be in possession of and is violating a curfew order, shoots a man in the back, killing him, murders another and grievously wounds yet another (both of whom were attempting to stop the kid) and the argument is this was done in self defense because some unknown person fired off a round during the pursuit? Do I have this right?

I'm a 2nd Amendment supporter and firmly believe in the right to self defense but I don't see where either applies to this case. The way I see it, there's no right to be carrying the rifle and any right to self defense was forfeited once the kid (for any goddamned reason) shot a man in the back.

Calling it like I see it. YMMV.
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Old 4th January 2021, 06:24 PM   #491
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
I've just recently started following this thread and at the risk of being seen as trying a fringe reset (i'm not), I'm trying to see if I'm gathering this correctly:

17 year-old kid shows up at a riot open carrying rifle he has no legal right to be in possession of and is violating a curfew order, shoots a man in the back, killing him, murders another and grievously wounds yet another (both of whom were attempting to stop the kid) and the argument is this was done in self defense because some unknown person fired off a round during the pursuit? Do I have this right?

I'm a 2nd Amendment supporter and firmly believe in the right to self defense but I don't see where either applies to this case. The way I see it, there's no right to be carrying the rifle and any right to self defense was forfeited once the kid (for any goddamned reason) shot a man in the back.

Calling it like I see it. YMMV.
That’s why I said way back that I think the case hinges on the first shooting. If he can argue that is self/defence (and it would seem more difficult to do so give the guy was shot in the back) then he might have a self-defence case.

Whether he has the right to carry the gun also seems to be contentious. It seems odd, if it was illegal, that he hasn’t been charged with that, as far as I can see.
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Old 4th January 2021, 06:29 PM   #492
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
I've just recently started following this thread and at the risk of being seen as trying a fringe reset (i'm not), I'm trying to see if I'm gathering this correctly:

17 year-old kid shows up at a riot open carrying rifle he has no legal right to be in possession of and is violating a curfew order, shoots a man in the back, killing him, murders another and grievously wounds yet another (both of whom were attempting to stop the kid) and the argument is this was done in self defense because some unknown person fired off a round during the pursuit? Do I have this right?

I'm a 2nd Amendment supporter and firmly believe in the right to self defense but I don't see where either applies to this case. The way I see it, there's no right to be carrying the rifle and any right to self defense was forfeited once the kid (for any goddamned reason) shot a man in the back.

Calling it like I see it. YMMV.
Summed up nicely.
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Old 4th January 2021, 06:37 PM   #493
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
That’s why I said way back that I think the case hinges on the first shooting. If he can argue that is self/defence (and it would seem more difficult to do so give the guy was shot in the back) then he might have a self-defence case.

Whether he has the right to carry the gun also seems to be contentious. It seems odd, if it was illegal, that he hasn’t been charged with that, as far as I can see.
He has been. The charges against him are as follows

First-degree reckless homicide for the killing of Joseph Rosenbaum
First-degree intentional homicide for the killing of Anthony Huber
Attempted first-degree intentional homicide against Gaige Grosskreutz
First-degree reckless endangerment against Richard McGinnis
First-degree reckless endangerment against an unknown male victim
Possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18
Violating an official curfew
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Old 4th January 2021, 08:48 PM   #494
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
He has been. The charges against him are as follows

First-degree reckless homicide for the killing of Joseph Rosenbaum
First-degree intentional homicide for the killing of Anthony Huber
Attempted first-degree intentional homicide against Gaige Grosskreutz
First-degree reckless endangerment against Richard McGinnis
First-degree reckless endangerment against an unknown male victim
Possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18
Violating an official curfew
Ah, thanks!
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Old 4th January 2021, 09:27 PM   #495
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
I've just recently started following this thread and at the risk of being seen as trying a fringe reset (i'm not), I'm trying to see if I'm gathering this correctly:

17 year-old kid shows up at a riot open carrying rifle he has no legal right to be in possession of and is violating a curfew order, shoots a man in the back, killing him, murders another and grievously wounds yet another (both of whom were attempting to stop the kid) and the argument is this was done in self defense because some unknown person fired off a round during the pursuit? Do I have this right?

I'm a 2nd Amendment supporter and firmly believe in the right to self defense but I don't see where either applies to this case. The way I see it, there's no right to be carrying the rifle and any right to self defense was forfeited once the kid (for any goddamned reason) shot a man in the back.

Calling it like I see it. YMMV.
Re: shooting in the back: not really. Unarmed guy grabbed Captain Courageous' rifle, and was otherwise in his face. Rittenhouse cracked off 5 rounds fairly blindly, and one struck unarmed guy in the back. It's not like he took aim on a retreating back. I'd bet my left nut Rittenhouse had his eyes closed in fear while he squeezed .223 rounds off into the night, with no idea what he was hitting.

It was a freaking riot. Other protesters can be absolutely counted on to start **** somewhat randomly. If you are not ready for this, as Kyle obviously wasn't, the solution is not to bring a People Liquifier into the mix. Learn to box first, and/or learn to run faster. A place where you can expect scrapping is no place to bring that kind of hardware unless this was the endgame you planned on.
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Old 4th January 2021, 10:40 PM   #496
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Re: shooting in the back: not really. Unarmed guy grabbed Captain Courageous' rifle, and was otherwise in his face. Rittenhouse cracked off 5 rounds fairly blindly, and one struck unarmed guy in the back. It's not like he took aim on a retreating back. I'd bet my left nut Rittenhouse had his eyes closed in fear while he squeezed .223 rounds off into the night, with no idea what he was hitting.

It was a freaking riot. Other protesters can be absolutely counted on to start **** somewhat randomly. If you are not ready for this, as Kyle obviously wasn't, the solution is not to bring a People Liquifier into the mix. Learn to box first, and/or learn to run faster. A place where you can expect scrapping is no place to bring that kind of hardware unless this was the endgame you planned on.
Ah. Then that makes him look even worse, IMO. He must've skipped the courses taught at wannabe LEO/EMT/MilitiaMan school wrt weapons safety and personal security.
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Old 5th January 2021, 02:11 AM   #497
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Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly View Post
There is a difference between equating and comparing. Your avoidance of the actual point is duly noted, as is your flair for the dramatic ("breathtakingly" and the rare unironic "Wow. Just wow.")
My avoidance is duly noted? Yeah whatever. You are the one equating/comparing rape victims to someone travelling to a riot and shooting people. It is so asinine it doesn't need a rebuttal.
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Old 5th January 2021, 02:14 AM   #498
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Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly View Post
You didn't help. The point is that the foolish or illegal actions of one person (and I am very willing to acknowledge Rittenhouse's stupid or illegal actions) do not absolve others of their own stupid or illegal actions.
Ok let's break it down shall we. Woman dresses provocatively, wanders down an alley, gets raped. Man bypasses gun laws to arm himself, travels to a protest/riot shoots one person in the back then shoots two others who trying to stop him fleeing.

Yes, two totally comparable situations. You nailed it..

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Old 5th January 2021, 06:35 AM   #499
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It should be pointed out that it isn't really legally necessary for the prosecutor to paint anyone in these scuffles as the "good guy".

It's perfectly routine for all parties involved in a violent altercation to be considered engaged in criminal activity. Plenty of occasions of people fighting result in the conclusion that no party was actually engaged in lawful self-defense.

It's not really necessary to try to paint the first victim of Rittenhouse as a totally innocent party. If he were alive still, it would be entirely reasonable that he might be charged with some crime for his part in the scuffle.

I think it's entirely likely that, when the trial actually starts, Kyle's self-defense claim is absolutely going to collapse under scrutiny. I think it will be shown that he willfully and recklessly engaged in criminal provocation to escalate a tense confrontation to violence, such as pointing weapons, shoving, verbal threats, and/or other such criminal acts prior to his infamous shooting spree.

There will be plenty of evidence that some of Kyle's victims were not acting lawfully the night of the shooting, and it really won't matter, because it will be plainly obvious from the testimony and other evidence from the night that Kyle engaged in a series of criminal, violent action that obviates any good-faith self defense claim. That's my prediction.

Even among the crowd of reactionaries that traveled to a riot zone for the explicit purpose of engaging in amateur police work, Kyle is a standout. He's the only one that ended up killing anyone that night, and it's almost certainly because he was especially belligerent. Video already has surfaced that shows Kyle patrolling the streets, falsely claiming to be an EMT and inserting himself into situations throughout the chaotic riot zone. He sought out confrontation, and eventually ran into another person that was willing to be as belligerent as he was.

Carrying a rifle, perhaps Kyle believed that all his enemies would back down from the the naked threat hanging across his chest. For the vast majority of people, this is probably true. Kyle got unlucky in that he ran into someone unhinged enough to call his bluff. Sucks for Kyle's victims who were shot as a result of this escalation, and it will likely also destroy Kyle's life if he is rightly convicted.
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Old 5th January 2021, 11:58 AM   #500
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Civilians cannot just decide to go after other people, just because they are SUSPECTED of something criminal. Or, are you OK with mobs taking care of things however they want?
The actual **** is this? No, I don't think civilians should just decide to go after other people just because they are suspected of something criminal. Kyle did that without the actual suspicion. He traveled to a location, that had no crimes happen, armed, and then engaged someone that he suspected of doing something criminal.

Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Across the USA, the mobs have decided they are in charge.
More irony. The mob that decided they were in charge was Kyle and his peeps.
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Old 10th January 2021, 09:07 AM   #501
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Just a side-note:
Kyle Rittenhouse was encountered at a bar wearing a t-shirt that proclaims "Free as F~k"
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Old 10th January 2021, 12:08 PM   #502
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Just a side-note:
Kyle Rittenhouse was encountered at a bar wearing a t-shirt that proclaims "Free as F~k"
Good to hear the teen is hanging out at bars.

He'll be getting his new prison shirt soon that says "Felon and really **********"
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Old 13th January 2021, 07:23 AM   #503
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Good to hear the teen is hanging out at bars.
I didn't know this about Wisconsin, because who cares about Wisconsin amiright? Apparently if you're with a direct family member that is over 21 you can not only enter a bar, but you can legally drink in it. So he was out on bail and drinking in a bar, in public, wearing that shirt. Any good attorney would have advised against that move, thankfully Lin Wood is not a good attorney and Rittenhouse probably didn't ask. It's all about the lulz for him right now.
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Old 13th January 2021, 07:37 AM   #504
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I imagine the temptation to experience adulthood is pretty strong, as there's a fair chance Rittenhouse will be starting a decades long prison term in the near future. I don't really care what Kyle's up to while pending trial as long as he's not committing any other violent felonies or whipping up reactionaries to do the same.

I'm not really seeing how lin wood is actually his attorney in any meaningful sense, other than PR grifting. Rittenhouse has a regular (read: not crazy) criminal attorney for his multiple felony case, and Lin Wood is a defamation attorney. I'm not aware of any civil litigation from Rittenhouse at the moment.

Perhaps Wood is anticipating some sort of civil case on the assumption that Kyle is found not guilty, but as of right now, he's not really doing much for Kyle.

Wood seems to be aggressively circling the drain with his MAGA psychosis and his discussions of summary executions of national politicians. I doubt he'll be involved with Rittenhouse for much longer.
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Old 13th January 2021, 07:46 AM   #505
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
[…]Lin Wood is a defamation attorney.
In more than one sense.

Dave
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Old 13th January 2021, 08:30 AM   #506
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I actually have to correct myself. Lin Wood was only involved in fighting the extradition to Wisconsin and now he no longer represents Kyle at all. It's just the local attorney that has taken over the case.

I don't care if he goes out to a bar, but drinking is generally considered a no-no when you're facing a ton of violent felonies. The biggest reason, at least what my attorney said to me, is that you open yourself up to irrational choices while under the influence. Which, on the turn of a dime, can land you in significantly more trouble.
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Old 14th January 2021, 05:14 AM   #507
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Kyle Rittenhouse flashed white power sign for selfie at bar and was serenaded by Proud Boys.

Prosecutors are filing a motion to amend his bond requirements so that he can no longer consume alcohol or associate with fascists.

Quote:
The prosecutors are now asking Rittenhouse's bond be changed to include the following:

The defendant shall be prohibited from possessing or consuming alcohol.

The defendant shall not be present in any establishment where alcohol is served.

The defendant shall be prohibited from making any public display of any “white power" or “white supremacy” signs, symbols, or hand gestures.

The defendant shall have no contact with any known militia members or known members of any violent white power/white supremacist groups or organizations, including but not limited to the group identified as the “Proud Boys.”
https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news...t-pleasant-bar

I'm not a lawyer, maybe someone can chime in. Is it helpful to your defense to associate with known fascists while awaiting a jury trial for multiple murder?

Edit: Just one lawyer's advice:

Quote:
I cannot emphasize enough how important it is that you hire a lawyer who will tell you—even, and perhaps especially, if you are a terrible person who deserves to be convicted—not to do this **** when you’re facing extremely serious criminal charges.
https://twitter.com/Scot_Blog/status...93966828728321

That's a good point. Terrible client control from Rittenhouse's lawyer.
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Old 15th January 2021, 01:36 PM   #508
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
That's a good point. Terrible client control from Rittenhouse's lawyer.
I would doubt his lawyer actually had any input. Any lawyer worth his weight in dick wigs would tell you not to drink because it exponentially increases your chances of doing or saying something that will hinder your case. As we've seen here. I can't imagine why you'd go out in public and drink while awaiting trial. It's dumb as ****.
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Old 15th January 2021, 03:41 PM   #509
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I would doubt his lawyer actually had any input. Any lawyer worth his weight in dick wigs would tell you not to drink because it exponentially increases your chances of doing or saying something that will hinder your case. As we've seen here. I can't imagine why you'd go out in public and drink while awaiting trial. It's dumb as ****.
He's probably been told by everyone supporting enabling him that he has done nothing wrong and so he truly believes that he will be acquitted. That no jury in the world will convict him and he can do whatever the **** he wants.

But yeah it's pretty ******* stupid either way.
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Old 16th January 2021, 02:51 AM   #510
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Kyle Rittenhouse? Do something stupid?

Surely not.
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Old 16th January 2021, 03:52 AM   #511
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If I were facing a lifetime in prison around a case that is going to almost exclusively hinge on my intentions, motivation, and judgement preceding multiple shootings, I would simply not openly associate with a known violent fascist street gang.
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Old 18th January 2021, 07:26 AM   #512
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I'm wondering if maybe, instead of thinking he's going to get off, he think he's going to be guilty. Even with all these people whispering in his ear saying he was right, and what he did was good, and all that, you'd think doubt would set in. I'm thinking maybe he just wants to drink for the experience before he ends up getting locked away. I'm sure there are a few things he's going to want to get out of the way before he goes to prison.
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Old 18th January 2021, 08:16 AM   #513
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
If I were facing a lifetime in prison around a case that is going to almost exclusively hinge on my intentions, motivation, and judgement preceding multiple shootings, I would simply not openly associate with a known violent fascist street gang.
While posing for pictures doing that ok/white power hand sign. Just ran across the article showing him doing so. Cherry on top and whatnot.
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Old 18th January 2021, 08:21 AM   #514
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
While posing for pictures doing that ok/white power hand sign. Just ran across the article showing him doing so. Cherry on top and whatnot.
It's funny, because despite my clear distaste for our young fascist murderer, I initially took very little objection to him enjoying a beer while out on bail. What little human empathy I have for a fascist was willing to accept that someone facing a lifetime in prison might just want to relax and have a nice time, assuming he didn't harm anyone else. Have a beer and chase some skirts, whatever.

Rittenhouse can't even do that right.

Side note, either his mother is also fascist inclined, or just a total pushover. What kind of mom let's their kid drive to a riot to commit murder and also let's him hang out with fascists while awaiting trial that will literally decide how he spends his entire adulthood?
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Old 18th January 2021, 09:38 AM   #515
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's funny, because despite my clear distaste for our young fascist murderer, I initially took very little objection to him enjoying a beer while out on bail. What little human empathy I have for a fascist was willing to accept that someone facing a lifetime in prison might just want to relax and have a nice time, assuming he didn't harm anyone else. Have a beer and chase some skirts, whatever.

Rittenhouse can't even do that right.

Side note, either his mother is also fascist inclined, or just a total pushover. What kind of mom let's their kid drive to a riot to commit murder and also let's him hang out with fascists while awaiting trial that will literally decide how he spends his entire adulthood?
Long shot spitballing: if he has finally developed some survival instincts (as opposed to his track record of randomly inserting himself into a mob of badder-asses than himself), he may be networking for 'in-house' protection. A general population wouldn't take too kindly to Captain Kyle who shoots criminals.
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Old 18th January 2021, 09:55 AM   #516
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Long shot spitballing: if he has finally developed some survival instincts (as opposed to his track record of randomly inserting himself into a mob of badder-asses than himself), he may be networking for 'in-house' protection. A general population wouldn't take too kindly to Captain Kyle who shoots criminals.
I haven't been to any prison in a long time, and Wisconsin isn't known for its racial diversity, but I'd say if you're looking for in-house protection the KKK\White Supremacy\skinhead faction might not be your best bet. Then again, it might be his only bet considering the circumstances around the shootings and what side he was on. This kid can't get away from poor decisions.
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Old 18th January 2021, 11:01 AM   #517
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I don't think that some of the feedback that Wendy Rittenhouse has been getting is conducive for such reflection. She was given a standing ovation at at GOP event in Wisconsin a few months ago.
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Old 18th January 2021, 11:22 AM   #518
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
I don't think that some of the feedback that Wendy Rittenhouse has been getting is conducive for such reflection. She was given a standing ovation at at GOP event in Wisconsin a few months ago.
Yeah I kind of get the feeling her audience would have given a standing ovation for anything she said. The audience was presumably not a neutral group of random spectators.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but she probably would have received rousing cheers if she shot someone in the middle of a Kenosha street.
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Old 18th January 2021, 11:46 AM   #519
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Long shot spitballing: if he has finally developed some survival instincts (as opposed to his track record of randomly inserting himself into a mob of badder-asses than himself), he may be networking for 'in-house' protection. A general population wouldn't take too kindly to Captain Kyle who shoots criminals.
No way is he intelligent enough for this.

His behaviour suggests someone who is incapable of thinking beyond the next few seconds, let alone plan for something months ahead of time.
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Old 18th January 2021, 11:50 AM   #520
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
No way is he intelligent enough for this.

His behaviour suggests someone who is incapable of thinking beyond the next few seconds, let alone plan for something months ahead of time.
I think the far simpler explanation is the most likely. Rittenhouse is extremely flattered by the effusive praise he's getting from the extreme-right and wanted to hang out with his Proud Boy supporters, who he likely admires.

He's a young man with an inflated ego and judgement.
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