IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Lauren Boebert , Marjorie Taylor Greene

Reply
Old 1st March 2021, 12:25 PM   #801
Distracted1
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 5,622
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
The whole thing is wrong. The entire message. The misrepresentation of science from a person who believes in Jewish Space Lasers starting fires is a part of that whole.
It is not wrong.
It is a true statement that some find uncomfortable.
With snark added- as it was put up in response to snark.
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2021, 12:28 PM   #802
RecoveringYuppy
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,003
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
It is not wrong.
It is a true statement that some find uncomfortable.
With snark added- as it was put up in response to snark.
No, it's false statement that wouldn't be true even if she had said "sex" instead of "gender".

Can you cite the science that says there are only two genders? Since gender is about opinion how could there even be science saying there are only two?

What is the point of repeating this lie?
RecoveringYuppy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2021, 12:43 PM   #803
Norman Alexander
Philosopher
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Gundungurra
Posts: 9,167
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
It is not wrong.
It is a true statement that some find uncomfortable.
With snark added- as it was put up in response to snark.
It IS wrong. Demonstrably so. It is only cultural dogma to restrict the concept of gender to male/female only.

Where to start...
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornetsí nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2021, 12:49 PM   #804
Distracted1
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 5,622
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
It IS wrong. Demonstrably so. It is only cultural dogma to restrict the concept of gender to male/female only.

Where to start...
Start by visiting the thread dedicated to the topic.
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2021, 12:51 PM   #805
Distracted1
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 5,622
Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
No, it's false statement that wouldn't be true even if she had said "sex" instead of "gender".

Can you cite the science that says there are only two genders? Since gender is about opinion how could there even be science saying there are only two?

What is the point of repeating this lie?
There is a thread for that.
Tangentially, if gender is about opinion (as you state), how does one get to a place where expressing what is probably the most commonly held opinion on the topic as "hateful"?
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2021, 12:55 PM   #806
wareyin
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 8,561
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
It is not wrong.
It is a true statement that some find uncomfortable.
With snark added- as it was put up in response to snark.
Oh, good, you're back. It's a shame you haven't taken the time to research MTG's actions prior to the "snark" you falsely claim started this off.

And the whole "Distracted1 gets to make his false and bigoted statement here but any response is off topic and should be taken to another thread" is nonsense. Don't want to discuss it here, then stop trying to get the last word in.
wareyin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2021, 12:57 PM   #807
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 24,341
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
My ignore list just grew by another bigot.
It took you this long?
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2021, 02:06 PM   #808
RecoveringYuppy
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,003
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
There is a thread for that.
Then confine your lies about the subject there.

Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Tangentially, if gender is about opinion (as you state),
Look the damn word up. Gender is about roles and behaviors and only typically associated with sex. Then look sex up in a few dictionaries, some will get in to the details of intersex.

Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
how does one get to a place where expressing what is probably the most commonly held opinion on the topic as "hateful"?
I don't care how common the ignorance or hatred is. And I don't know that most people would deny that intersex exists even if they don't commonly talk that way.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sex
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/sex

Last edited by RecoveringYuppy; 1st March 2021 at 02:08 PM.
RecoveringYuppy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2021, 02:18 PM   #809
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 22,944
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
It is not wrong.
It is a true statement that some find uncomfortable.
With snark added- as it was put up in response to snark.
IIRC there is a massive thread with people arguing about this. I haven't ventured there much, but based on the volume of disagreement I would say that it is at the very least not settled.

We don't typically have huge debates among long term members here about simple scientific topics that are well settled.
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2021, 02:25 PM   #810
RecoveringYuppy
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,003
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
IIRC there is a massive thread with people arguing about this. I haven't ventured there much, but based on the volume of disagreement I would say that it is at the very least not settled.

We don't typically have huge debates among long term members here about simple scientific topics that are well settled.
There can be semantic debates but the science is well settled that not all humans fall neatly in to male/female sexes. And that's all the science we need for this thread. And that's even addressing the stricter question of how many sexes there are, where what is at issue here is how many genders there are.
RecoveringYuppy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2021, 02:49 PM   #811
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 22,944
Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
There can be semantic debates but the science is well settled that not all humans fall neatly in to male/female sexes. And that's all the science we need for this thread. And that's even addressing the stricter question of how many sexes there are, where what is at issue here is how many genders there are.
Thank you.

I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I was just pointing out that if the science were settled in the direction the D1 and MTG seemed to agree, then there would be no need for a thread on the topic. I understand it to be a complex topic and the thread seems to bear out that understanding.
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2021, 02:52 PM   #812
Distracted1
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 5,622
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
IIRC there is a massive thread with people arguing about this. I haven't ventured there much, but based on the volume of disagreement I would say that it is at the very least not settled.

We don't typically have huge debates among long term members here about simple scientific topics that are well settled.
Indeed, and I agree.
Does that make the %50 or so of the regular participants in that thread "hateful bigots"?

If the science is unsettled, making a declarative claim WRT the veracity of the statement (which I was definitely not the first to do in this thread) is of roughly equal value.

Holding an opinion that falls on one side or another of the issue is neither hateful, nor bigoted. Responding to the statement "trans women are women" with "trans women are not women" does not land in the territory of "bigoted" unless one has chosen to abandon all pretense of rational discussion and gone straight to spittle-spewing tribalism.
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2021, 02:54 PM   #813
RecoveringYuppy
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,003
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I didn't mean to imply otherwise.
Yes, sorry I didn't make it clear I was attempting to amplify your point.
RecoveringYuppy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2021, 03:05 PM   #814
Distracted1
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 5,622
Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Then confine your lies about the subject there.


Look the damn word up. Gender is about roles and behaviors and only typically associated with sex. Then look sex up in a few dictionaries, some will get in to the details of intersex.


I don't care how common the ignorance or hatred is. And I don't know that most people would deny that intersex exists even if they don't commonly talk that way.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sex
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/sex
The legislation that sparked the debate between the two Reps. Is intended to create a separate gender called "intersex"?

Or is it attempting to legislate what constitutes a "man/boy" or "woman/girl"?

I don't find many people arguing that there do not exist people with their genders mixed up.
Even fewer that would penalize someone for having that condition (although, of course, there are undoubtedly some who do). The pushback is against those who would change the definition of "Woman" in order to satisfy the agenda of some advocates for those so afflicted.
The opinion of the Conservative linked to above by NYG is more typical of the attitude of those of us who would keep the existing understandings of the words where they are. There is no "hatred" or "irrational fear" of persons who choose (or are compelled) to emulate another gender, only an unwillingness to adopt the "solution" proposed which denies reality.
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2021, 03:18 PM   #815
RecoveringYuppy
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,003
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
The legislation that sparked the debate between the two Reps. Is intended to [misleading stuff snipped]....
No, it's none of those things. Look it up for yourself.
RecoveringYuppy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2021, 03:32 PM   #816
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 50,581
This thread has been totally derailed.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2021, 05:09 PM   #817
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 17,208
Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
It took you this long?
dubalb is as patient as he is long-suffering.
__________________
I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms.
- Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project)
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2021, 05:17 PM   #818
Shalamar
Dark Lord of the JREF
 
Shalamar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Somewhere Else
Posts: 5,040
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
This thread has been totally derailed.
It has been sealioned.
__________________

"The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head."
Shalamar is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2021, 06:01 PM   #819
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 17,208
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
The legislation that sparked the debate between the two Reps. Is intended to create a separate gender called "intersex"?

Or is it attempting to legislate what constitutes a "man/boy" or "woman/girl"?.
Neither, and if you had been paying attention, you would have known that!

Try learning to swim before you jump in at the deep end!

Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
I don't find many people arguing that there do not exist people with their genders mixed up.
They don't have "their genders mixed up". You are still proceeding from a total and complete misunderstanding of the subject material.

Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Even fewer that would penalize someone for having that condition (although, of course, there are undoubtedly some who do).
Denying them the right to be who they are without being discriminated against IS penalizing, and in exactly the same may that denying black people the right to be citizens of the country of their birth was penalizing, or denying gays and lesbians the right to serve their country in the military is penalizing, or allowing people to be denied employment on the basis of their ethnicity is penalizing.

Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
The pushback is against those who would change the definition of "Woman" in order to satisfy the agenda of some advocates for those so afflicted.
The opinion of the Conservative linked to above by NYG is more typical of the attitude of those of us who would keep the existing understandings of the words where they are. There is no "hatred" or "irrational fear" of persons who choose (or are compelled) to emulate another gender, only an unwillingness to adopt the "solution" proposed which denies reality.
Your use of the term "reality" shows us your true colours.... no different from those of Marjorie Taylor-Bigot.

Try telling a transgender person that their gender is mixed up, tell them what you think "reality" is when it comes to gender. Let us know what their reaction was.
__________________
I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms.
- Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project)
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

Last edited by smartcooky; 1st March 2021 at 06:21 PM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2021, 07:05 PM   #820
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,229
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Try telling a transgender person that their gender is mixed up, tell them what you think "reality" is when it comes to gender. Let us know what their reaction was.
Don't you just love it when someone tells another person how they feel and what they think? Talk about arrogant.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2021, 07:06 PM   #821
Distracted1
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 5,622
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Neither, and if you had been paying attention, you would have known that!

Try learning to swim before you jump in at the deep end!



They don't have "their genders mixed up". You are still proceeding from a total and complete misunderstanding of the subject material.



Denying them the right to be who they are without being discriminated against IS penalizing, and in exactly the same may that denying black people the right to be citizens of the country of their birth was penalizing, or denying gays and lesbians the right to serve their country in the military is penalizing, or allowing people to be denied employment on the basis of their ethnicity is penalizing.



Your use of the term "reality" shows us your true colours.... no different from those of Marjorie Taylor-Bigot.

Try telling a transgender person that their gender is mixed up, tell them what you think "reality" is when it comes to gender. Let us know what their reaction was.
Truly, if you wish to demonstrate your scientific expertise in the area in order to justify the total irrefutable correctness of your viewpoint I would welcome seeing it in the thread devoted to the topic.

Outside of that, you are making a bald assertion of nothing other than belief with all the justification of a new religion or cult- then calling others (who constitute the majority), who reject your new faith "bigots"
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2021, 07:10 PM   #822
Distracted1
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 5,622
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Don't you just love it when someone tells another person how they feel and what they think? Talk about arrogant.
It's the worst.
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2021, 07:13 PM   #823
tyr_13
Penultimate Amazing
 
tyr_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,460
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Truly, if you wish to demonstrate your scientific expertise in the area in order to justify the total irrefutable correctness of your viewpoint I would welcome seeing it in the thread devoted to the topic.

Outside of that, you are making a bald assertion of nothing other than belief with all the justification of a new religion or cult- then calling others (who constitute the majority), who reject your new faith "bigots"
A lot of reasonable people have left that thread to the people who are so certain they are reasonable they couldn't figure out that purposefully misgendering a cis gay man in order to mock was, you know, a bad thing to do. Being so insufferable people leave doesn't make you right, and it certainly doesn't make one 'in the majority'. Which you aren't on this one. That you feel safe and victorious in that thread in absolutely no way makes you correct.
__________________
Circled nothing is still nothing.
"Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel
Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong
tyr_13 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2021, 07:21 PM   #824
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,229
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
It's the worst.
So stop.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2021, 07:49 PM   #825
Distracted1
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 5,622
Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
A lot of reasonable people have left that thread to the people who are so certain they are reasonable they couldn't figure out that purposefully misgendering a cis gay man in order to mock was, you know, a bad thing to do. Being so insufferable people leave doesn't make you right, and it certainly doesn't make one 'in the majority'. Which you aren't on this one. That you feel safe and victorious in that thread in absolutely no way makes you correct.
Something about thinking, and feeling, and telling someone else how they do those things..... It's around here somewhere.
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2021, 10:52 AM   #826
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 22,944
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Indeed, and I agree.
Does that make the %50 or so of the regular participants in that thread "hateful bigots"?
I've already stated that I am not involved in that thread. If, as you claim, 50% of the regular participants in that thread would agree with MTG's actions, then yeah, they are at least supportive of hateful bigotry.

Quote:
If the science is unsettled, making a declarative claim WRT the veracity of the statement (which I was definitely not the first to do in this thread) is of roughly equal value.
I was merely pointing out that her oversimplification was clearly wrong. If it were that simple it would not be worth discussing.

Quote:
Holding an opinion that falls on one side or another of the issue is neither hateful, nor bigoted. Responding to the statement "trans women are women" with "trans women are not women" does not land in the territory of "bigoted" unless one has chosen to abandon all pretense of rational discussion and gone straight to spittle-spewing tribalism.
Holding the opinion that trans people do not deserve the same consideration that non-trans people deserve is just as bigoted as holding the position that gay people do not deserve the same consideration as straight people. That you frame it as your opinion does not make it less bigoted than if you tried to frame it as a fact. Especially for someone who has the power to pass laws that can actually impact the legal rights of their citizens.
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2021, 11:47 AM   #827
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 17,208
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Holding the opinion that trans people do not deserve the same consideration that non-trans people deserve is just as bigoted as holding the position that gay people do not deserve the same consideration as straight people. That you frame it as your opinion does not make it less bigoted than if you tried to frame it as a fact. Especially for someone who has the power to pass laws that can actually impact the legal rights of their citizens.


In matters of national concern, these politicians have a responsibility to ensure that they act in the interests of ALL of the citizens of their country. It isn't their job to turn their own vile, bigoted opinions into legislation.

Marjorie Taylor-Greene is a horrible person - racist, homophobic, transphobic and a lying conspiracy theorist; a thoroughly nasty individual in every way. She does not deserve the privilege of serving in government.
__________________
I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms.
- Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project)
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2021, 12:25 PM   #828
Resume
Troublesome Passenger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 19,080
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Marjorie Taylor-Greene is a horrible person - racist, homophobic, transphobic and a lying conspiracy theorist; a thoroughly nasty individual in every way. She does not deserve the privilege of serving in government.
Yep.
Resume is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2021, 12:43 PM   #829
zorro99
Muse
 
zorro99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 987
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post


Marjorie Taylor-Greene is a horrible person - racist, homophobic, transphobic and a lying conspiracy theorist; a thoroughly nasty individual in every way. She does not deserve the privilege of serving in government.
Only they we can do now is laugh at, mock and make fun of her and her supporters. Ridicule is the only effective tool against these types.
__________________
There is nothing as deceptive as an obvious fact.

Last edited by zorro99; 2nd March 2021 at 12:44 PM. Reason: Spelling
zorro99 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2021, 03:15 PM   #830
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 50,581
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
dubalb is as patient as he is long-suffering.
I prefer to wait for a smoking gun....and the guy we are talking about produced it in this thread.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2021, 03:29 PM   #831
Distracted1
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 5,622
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I've already stated that I am not involved in that thread. If, as you claim, 50% of the regular participants in that thread would agree with MTG's actions, then yeah, they are at least supportive of hateful bigotry.



I was merely pointing out that her oversimplification was clearly wrong. If it were that simple it would not be worth discussing.



Holding the opinion that trans people do not deserve the same consideration that non-trans people deserve is just as bigoted as holding the position that gay people do not deserve the same consideration as straight people. That you frame it as your opinion does not make it less bigoted than if you tried to frame it as a fact. Especially for someone who has the power to pass laws that can actually impact the legal rights of their citizens.
Do not pretend that you are not aware that legislation is not as cut and dry as that. It is a trick used by politicians, and should be beneath anyone here.

A bill can state that "trans people may not be discriminated against in housing" while also stating that "for legal purposes, anyone who declares himself to be a Woman is one".

When someone rejects the legislation for the latter reason- it is transparently disingenuous to accuse them of being "against" the former. We think of politicians in disparaging terms precisely because of tactics like that.
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.

Last edited by Distracted1; 2nd March 2021 at 03:42 PM.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2021, 04:45 PM   #832
wareyin
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 8,561
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Do not pretend that you are not aware that legislation is not as cut and dry as that. It is a trick used by politicians, and should be beneath anyone here.

A bill can state that "trans people may not be discriminated against in housing" while also stating that "for legal purposes, anyone who declares himself to be a Woman is one".

When someone rejects the legislation for the latter reason- it is transparently disingenuous to accuse them of being "against" the former. We think of politicians in disparaging terms precisely because of tactics like that.
Do not pretend that you haven't been repeatedly told that MTG has a long history of anti-LGBTQ activism, which pre-dates her entry into politics.

Given that knowledge, one doesn't have to pretend legislation said anything like your claim. We know it didn't, and we know why she is against it. Your apologetics for her fail.
wareyin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2021, 04:50 PM   #833
tyr_13
Penultimate Amazing
 
tyr_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,460
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Something about thinking, and feeling, and telling someone else how they do those things..... It's around here somewhere.
Well once you find it, do let me know. Till then, your assertions about how right you are remain unfounded.
__________________
Circled nothing is still nothing.
"Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel
Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong
tyr_13 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2021, 06:24 PM   #834
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 17,208
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
A bill can state that "trans people may not be discriminated against in housing" while also stating that "for legal purposes, anyone who declares himself to be a Woman is one".
You do realise that the text of HR5 is freely available to the public, which means everyone here can read it, and can immediately see that both you and your vile friend Marjorie are lying about what it says, right?

Please show me anywhere in HR5 where it says "for legal purposes, anyone who declares himself to be a Woman is one" (and keep in mind that you put that bit in quotes, so now you have to find that exact sentence in the body of HR5, or your claim fails)

For the runner up prize, show me anywhere in HR5 where it even implies this.

ETA: Here, I'll even help you out

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-...se-bill/5/text
__________________
I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms.
- Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project)
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

Last edited by smartcooky; 2nd March 2021 at 06:31 PM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd March 2021, 10:20 AM   #835
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 22,944
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Do not pretend that you are not aware that legislation is not as cut and dry as that. It is a trick used by politicians, and should be beneath anyone here.

A bill can state that "trans people may not be discriminated against in housing" while also stating that "for legal purposes, anyone who declares himself to be a Woman is one".

When someone rejects the legislation for the latter reason- it is transparently disingenuous to accuse them of being "against" the former. We think of politicians in disparaging terms precisely because of tactics like that.
Is that what you think happened here? Do you think MTG actually really does support transgender rights, but she wants to nail down the definition so that others aren't simply pretending to be transgender to get the benefits?

That is not my impression, but I'm open to evidence of this.
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd March 2021, 10:27 PM   #836
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 17,208
Hey, Distracted1, here's a wee reminder about some still outstanding homework....

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
You do realise that the text of HR5 is freely available to the public, which means everyone here can read it, and can immediately see that both you and your vile friend Marjorie are lying about what it says, right?

Please show me anywhere in HR5 where it says "for legal purposes, anyone who declares himself to be a Woman is one" (and keep in mind that you put that bit in quotes, so now you have to find that exact sentence in the body of HR5, or your claim fails)

For the runner up prize, show me anywhere in HR5 where it even implies this.

ETA: Here, I'll even help you out

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-...se-bill/5/text


Looks like you have run away from the hard questions!
__________________
I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms.
- Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project)
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

Last edited by smartcooky; 3rd March 2021 at 10:29 PM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th March 2021, 05:26 AM   #837
Steve
Philosopher
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,709
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Hey, Distracted1, here's a wee reminder about some still outstanding homework....



https://www.dropbox.com/s/n050avecqu...ient.gif?raw=1

Looks like you have run away from the hard questions!
Not fair doing research and expecting facts from MTG supporters who only deal in opinions and obfuscation.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th March 2021, 08:59 AM   #838
Distracted1
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 5,622
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Hey, Distracted1, here's a wee reminder about some still outstanding homework....



https://www.dropbox.com/s/n050avecqu...ient.gif?raw=1

Looks like you have run away from the hard questions!
Oh, yes, your demand for an explanation.
You got me, nowhere does the bill specifically use the exact words "trans people may not be discriminated against in housing", therefore you are correct- it does not prohibit that kind of discrimination.
Well argued, kudos.
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th March 2021, 11:10 AM   #839
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 22,944
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Oh, yes, your demand for an explanation.
You got me, nowhere does the bill specifically use the exact words "trans people may not be discriminated against in housing", therefore you are correct- it does not prohibit that kind of discrimination.
Well argued, kudos.
You support housing discrimination?
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th March 2021, 12:06 PM   #840
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 17,208
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Oh, yes, your demand for an explanation.
You got me, nowhere does the bill specifically use the exact words "trans people may not be discriminated against in housing", therefore you are correct- it does not prohibit that kind of discrimination.
Well argued, kudos.
Non sequitur. Your reply is not related to the question - no one is making that claim. You, however, made the claim that the legislation being discussed said "for legal purposes, anyone who declares himself to be a Woman is one".

You're not getting off that easy. Since your claim was made as a statement of fact, and in quote marks, the only way to support that claim is to find that exact statement in the text of HR5. I will accept wording that means or implies the same thing.

If you can't find it, you need to withdraw your claim and admit you were wrong.
__________________
I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms.
- Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project)
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

Last edited by smartcooky; 4th March 2021 at 12:09 PM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:33 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.