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Tags al gore , barack obama , democratic party , democrats , hillary clinton , john edwards , presidential candidates

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Old 16th February 2007, 11:24 PM   #1
The Atheist
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Democrats, is this all you have?

So, the race has started, the hats are in the ring!

Hillary Clinton.

This is a bad joke, right? Dems: a hint. Just because Big George got his little boy to become Pres, does NOT make it likelier for Big Bill's little gal to make the White House. One other thing - do you think America is ready to elect a woman? She has one thing going for her only - Bill.

Barack Obama.

I don't know much about the man, but I like what I have seen. Telling that little Aussie wanker, John Howard, where to go gets my vote, BUT, is America ready to elect a black president? I suspect not and I doubt he'll get the nod, but I'd be interested to learn more about this guy, he seems a more MLK than Jesse Jackson. Aside from that, being only a recent entrant to the Senate, I expect he'd be a better bet in 2012.

Al Gore.

Al Gore?? If Hillary's a joke, Gore would be the Keystone Cops! Bill's wife, Bill's #2... anyone related to Bill is worth a shot? Is that how low the Dems go? Have you got nobody with balls, backbone and voter appeal?

John Edwards.

Who? At least he's a good-looking and smart. Worked for Clinton, didn't it? Not sure why he's so unpopular, but then I don't know why Hillary is so popular!

Are there any others? Have you got any chance at all of de-throning the elephant, next year?
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Old 16th February 2007, 11:45 PM   #2
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion...wo-way_contest
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Old 16th February 2007, 11:53 PM   #3
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If I were to place a bet on who will make it through the primaries and on to be the Dem candidate, I'd place that bet on John Edwards.
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Old 17th February 2007, 12:05 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Have you got any chance at all of de-throning the elephant, next year?
A lot will depend on the elephant's nominee.

At this point I don't see that the democrats have a really strong candidate, but since I don't know who the republican nominee will be it remains to be seen how strong the democrat has to be.

I don't see that any of those with their hat in the ring really represent a brighter future.
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Old 17th February 2007, 12:11 AM   #5
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Are there any others? Have you got any chance at all of de-throning the elephant, next year?
Well, it is still early, but I don't have much confidence. The Dems had a much better field of candidates in 2004. At the time, given Bush's performance, I assumed they could have nominated a blind monkey and won the Presidency. Instead, they completely disregarded the major problem they had with Al Gore in 2000 (his seeming complete lack of personality) and nominated John Kerry, a guy who makes Gore look like Dennis Rodman by comparison.

Another odd thing I have noticed is how candidates who lose the Presidential race seem to have a habit of leaving formal politics, appearing on television shows, and suddenly becoming ten times more charismatic, interesting, and articulate than they ever were during their campaign.

When I've seen Gore on TV lately, one thing I have noticed -- aside from his.. urr... rapidly increasing girth -- is that he seems very relaxed, has a good sense of humor, and is actually fairly interesting to listen to. And I find myself thinking, "if you'd acted like that during your campaign, maybe you would have actually won."

This happened with Bob Dole -- a consummate bore if there ever was one -- in 1996. He loses the election, and is suddenly appearing on TV shows and commercials cracking jokes (my favorite one being in 2000 when, he went on the Daily Show and John Stewart asked him whether he thought Bush or Gore would win the election. He replied, "It'll definitely be a four-letter word.") and actually getting people genuinely interested in him. I doubt Dole would have beaten Clinton either way, but still -- what the hell? Do Presidential candidates suddenly turn into zombies when they enter the race? Do their campaign managers slip roofies into their drinks before speeches?
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Old 17th February 2007, 12:54 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by ARubberChickenWithAPulley View Post
Well, it is still early, but I don't have much confidence. The Dems had a much better field of candidates in 2004.
Yes, well that's where I'm at. You had a choice and got it wrong in 2004, this time in, you may not have much choice.
Originally Posted by ARubberChickenWithAPulley View Post
At the time, given Bush's performance, I assumed they could have nominated a blind monkey and won the Presidency.
Blind monkey vs Incumbent blind monkey was always a bad bet, which is why they went with the charisma by-passed guy.
Originally Posted by ARubberChickenWithAPulley View Post
Instead, they completely disregarded the major problem they had with Al Gore in 2000 (his seeming complete lack of personality) and nominated John Kerry, a guy who makes Gore look like Dennis Rodman by comparison.
In spades! Wet blanket would be kind. And he looks French, dammit!
Originally Posted by ARubberChickenWithAPulley View Post
Do Presidential candidates suddenly turn into zombies when they enter the race? Do their campaign managers slip roofies into their drinks before speeches?
Yeah, but we've agreed that Gore and Kerry were zombies before the nomination.
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Old 17th February 2007, 06:55 AM   #7
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Problem with the Dems is that their strategy of "We're not Bush" that finally paid off after years of failure simply won't work for the next election.

-z

Well...unless Jeb runs that is....
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Old 17th February 2007, 07:04 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
gets my vote
Where do you live? Half way around the world, on the other side of the planet. You don't get to vote.
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Old 17th February 2007, 07:14 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by rikzilla View Post
Problem with the Dems is that their strategy of "We're not Bush" that finally paid off after years of failure simply won't work for the next election.

-z

Well...unless Jeb runs that is....
Hard to say. Bush's strategy of "I'm not Clinton" worked reasonably well against Gore.
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Old 17th February 2007, 07:35 AM   #10
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Don't rule out Mark Warner. He said he wouldn't...but he's sort of quietly acting like he would. And he'd be a great bait-and-switch candidate. The Dems parade around their loonies long enough for everyone to get worried, then suddenly up pops someone who's actually both sane and effective.

Sigh. But it probably won't happen. Too good to be true. America just doesn't get decent people wanting to be president.
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Old 17th February 2007, 07:36 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
So, the race has started, the hats are in the ring!

do you think America is ready to elect a woman?

BUT, is America ready to elect a black president? I suspect not
Gallup Poll:

If your party nominated a well-qualified Candidate For WH '08 who was _, would you vote for that person?
Yes No
Catholic 95% 4%
Black 94 5
Jewish 92 7
A woman 88 11
Hispanic 87 12
Mormon 72 24
Married for third time 67 30
72 years old 57 42
A homosexual 55 43
An atheist 45 53

Comfort- With Would
able Reserv- Not
ations Vote
Black 84% 9% 5%
A woman 78 10 11
Mormon 58 14 24
72 years old 43 15 42
Married for
third time 54 13 30

Rudy Giuliani - Married for a third time.
John McCain - 72 Years old in 2008.
Mitt Romney - A Mormon

You were saying?

(Of course, I'm British and so maybe don't have a first hand view of how America views its candidates, but I think the 2008 candidates for the Dems are mostly very good (especially Obama), and I would happily vote for any of them (Edit: Well, I wouldn't "happily" vote Hillary, but I'd vote for her. Not a Lieberman situation where I would abstain). Then again, I'd also vote for a dead skunk if it was opposing the Republican party (Edit: But again, not Lieberman, I have standards), so YMMV).

Also, the "would you vote for an Atheist?" percentage is deeply depressing. Come on America, adopt the social beliefs of a first world country, you know you want to.
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Old 17th February 2007, 07:43 AM   #12
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Quote:
Also, the "would you vote for an Atheist?" percentage is deeply depressing. Come on America, adopt the social beliefs of a first world country, you know you want to.
I donít want to derail the thread, but where is this atheist first world country?
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Old 17th February 2007, 07:54 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Tricky View Post
Hard to say. Bush's strategy of "I'm not Clinton" worked reasonably well against Gore.
Actually that was Gore's strategery. Remember? He rebuffed Clinton's offer to campaign for him. If Gore hadn't already drunk deeply of the Repub koolaid and used Clinton he might have been president.

It's true!

-z
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Old 17th February 2007, 08:08 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by rikzilla View Post
Actually that was Gore's strategery. Remember? He rebuffed Clinton's offer to campaign for him. If Gore hadn't already drunk deeply of the Repub koolaid and used Clinton he might have been president.
Gore, probably quite sensibly, wanted to distance himself from a recent scandal, but he did not campaign on a platform of "restoring honor and dignity to the White House". You'd be hard pressed to suggest that Bush was alluding to Gore's "honor and dignity".


Originally Posted by rikzilla View Post
It's true!
Maybe on Bizarro World...
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Old 17th February 2007, 08:12 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by PenguinWarrior View Post
Gallup Poll:

If your party nominated a well-qualified Candidate For WH '08 who was _, would you vote for that person?
Yes No
Catholic 95% 4%
Black 94 5
Jewish 92 7
A woman 88 11
Hispanic 87 12
Mormon 72 24
Married for third time 67 30
72 years old 57 42
A homosexual 55 43
An atheist 45 53
The number of people who would actually vote for a black or female candidate could easily be lower than the numbers indicate. It's fairly well established that people, even in anonymous polls, pick socially acceptable answers. Racism and sexism is not socially acceptable, though discrimination against atheists apparently is.
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Old 17th February 2007, 08:22 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by The Painter View Post
Where do you live? Half way around the world, on the other side of the planet. You don't get to vote.
If you don't want to derail the thread you might wish to refrain from blatant straw men such as: would vote for an atheist=being atheist. As for what countries would vote for an atheist most of Western Europe most likely. Denmark likely has had atheist Prime Ministers, but to be honest I don't actually know what religion, if any, any current or past prime minister has.
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Old 17th February 2007, 08:27 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by The Painter View Post
I donít want to derail the thread, but where is this atheist first world country?
Well, derail is highly likely, but that's not what I meant. I meant (in a jokey kind of way) that first world countries do not refuse to vote for someone just because they are atheists, not that atheists run all sensible first world countries as that is obviously false. Moreso, I meant that the religion of a candidate should not even be an issue, as it largely isn't here (UK) - Alistair Campbell (Tony Blair's ex-spinmeister in chief) famously told a journalist "We don't do God" (I.e. We don't discuss Blair's Christianity more than we have to) and that kind of sums it up (although having said that, I think Islamophobia is on it's way up, worryingly). The US is very unusual amongst modern first world countries in its religious attitudes, especially regarding atheism. Honestly though, it's the death penalty and lack of universal healthcare that are the real things that just make me look at the US and shake my head (But that's an even bigger derail, of course , so please don't respond to me about that ).

As to first world atheist countries, well, the UK will be full of agnostics and atheists as soon as the over fifties die off, so get back to me in 30-40 years time?
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Old 17th February 2007, 08:33 AM   #18
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Vote Republican
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Old 17th February 2007, 09:28 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Texastwister View Post
Vote Republican
What all do they have? A whoremonger who was mayor and an ex-POW who supports torture?

(edited to fix my replication of redundancy)
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Last edited by Mephisto; 17th February 2007 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 17th February 2007, 09:35 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Mephisto View Post
What all they they have? A whoremonger who was mayor and an ex-POW who supports torture?
Put 'em together and whaddaya get?

Hmmm... I dunno but I'm thinkin lots of shiny leather is involved?

-z
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Old 17th February 2007, 09:37 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by rikzilla View Post
Put 'em together and whaddaya get?

Hmmm... I dunno but I'm thinkin lots of shiny leather is involved?

-z
And some whips.
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Old 17th February 2007, 09:42 AM   #22
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In my personal experience, Republicans are more likely than Democrats to be into whips and leather, but they also are more likely to cry about it afterwards and swear they'll never do it again. Then Friday night rolls around and guess who's phoning up, just to "see what you're doing, maybe just hang out"?
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Old 17th February 2007, 12:58 PM   #23
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You have sex with Republicans?

Ewww.
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Old 17th February 2007, 01:08 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by PenguinWarrior View Post
Rudy Giuliani - Married for a third time.
John McCain - 72 Years old in 2008.
Mitt Romney - A Mormon
Yup, the Republicans got nothing. My prediction is a Clinton/Obama ticket for the dems and they are unbeatable in '08.
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Old 17th February 2007, 01:10 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Dr Adequate View Post
You have sex with Republicans?

Ewww.
well we all know how much bush likes dick. sometimes he needs dick weekly in the white house. of course, at other times bush need dick daily.

you know, thinking about it, the republicans love dick more than the democrats do!
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Old 17th February 2007, 01:47 PM   #26
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Reformatted it for ya:

Code:
If your party nominated a well-qualified Candidate
For WH '08 who was _________, would you vote for
that person? 
                            Yes  No                   
Catholic                    95%  4%                           
Black                       94   5   
Jewish                      92   7     
A woman                     88  11         
Hispanic                    87  12     
Mormon                      72  24   
Married for third time      67  30   
72 years old                57  42 
A homosexual                55  43     
An atheist                  45  53

                Comfort-      With    Would 
                 able        Reserv-   Not 
                              ations  Vote 
Black            84%            9%      5% 
A woman          78            10      11 
Mormon           58            14      24 
72 years old     43            15      42 
Married for 
third time       54            13      30

Rudy Giuliani - Married for a third time.
John McCain - 72 Years old in 2008.
Mitt Romney - A Mormon
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Old 17th February 2007, 02:10 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Alt+F4 View Post
well we all know how much bush likes dick. sometimes he needs dick weekly in the white house. of course, at other times bush need dick daily.

you know, thinking about it, the republicans love dick more than the democrats do!
True. Well, dick has definitely got a big piece as quite a few Texas quail bloggers have indicated. When he shoots his load - duck! I mean quail! I mean duck, quail!
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Old 17th February 2007, 02:32 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Alt+F4 View Post
you know, thinking about it, the republicans love dick more than the democrats do!
I think you're wrong:
VOTE BY GENDER
TOTAL Democrat Republican
Male (49%) 50% 47%
Female (51%) 55% 43%

ARE YOU GAY, LESBIAN OR BISEXUAL?
TOTAL Democrat Republican
Yes (3%) 75% 24%
No (97%) 52% 46%
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Old 17th February 2007, 02:45 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by The Painter View Post
Where do you live? Half way around the world, on the other side of the planet. You don't get to vote.
I'd like to introduce you to a whole new concept in information-sharing. It's called a figure of speech. and isn't to be taken literally.

Give it a go.
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Old 17th February 2007, 02:49 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Don't rule out Mark Warner. He said he wouldn't...but he's sort of quietly acting like he would. And he'd be a great bait-and-switch candidate. The Dems parade around their loonies long enough for everyone to get worried, then suddenly up pops someone who's actually both sane and effective.

Sigh. But it probably won't happen. Too good to be true. America just doesn't get decent people wanting to be president.
The Zaphod Beeblebrox/Galactic Emperor factor.
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Old 17th February 2007, 02:51 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by PenguinWarrior View Post
Gallup Poll:
Cheers, thanks for that. It seems to show that colour is no barrier, which is heartening.
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Old 17th February 2007, 04:47 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Cheers, thanks for that. It seems to show that colour is no barrier, which is heartening.
I don't know if I'd say that. Three percent is often enough to tip elections, although there has been speculation that the three percent might be disproportionately concentrated into red states.
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Old 17th February 2007, 05:50 PM   #33
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The only things that are going to matter are what the Dems do in Congress over the next year or so.


This has much more bearing on whether or not the Dem president will win than anything they actually SAY...well.......unless they commit political suicide in a speech......
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Old 17th February 2007, 06:16 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by ARubberChickenWithAPulley View Post
Instead, they completely disregarded the major problem they had with Al Gore in 2000 (his seeming complete lack of personality) and nominated John Kerry, a guy who makes Gore look like Dennis Rodman by comparison.
Boredom didnt cost him EVERY race.

Arizona republicans were SOOOO pissed at GWB that they would have voted for Jimmy Carter out of spite, hell they would have voted for Hillary

Kerry came to AZ, and gave a speech where he laughed at us and told us to eat **** and suffer

THAT cost him this state
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Old 17th February 2007, 06:22 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Kerry came to AZ, and gave a speech where he laughed at us and told us to eat **** and suffer

THAT cost him this state
Can you provide a source with this quote, or is it your own unique paraphrasing?
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Old 17th February 2007, 06:33 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I'd like to introduce you to a whole new concept in information-sharing. It's called a figure of speech. and isn't to be taken literally.

Give it a go.
It's not new, its been around for a long time. Let me introduce you to something called tounge in cheek. It might be too subtle for you.
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Old 17th February 2007, 06:34 PM   #37
Rob Lister
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Boredom didnt cost him EVERY race.

Arizona republicans were SOOOO pissed at GWB that they would have voted for Jimmy Carter out of spite, hell they would have voted for Hillary

Kerry came to AZ, and gave a speech where he laughed at us and told us to eat **** and suffer

THAT cost him this state
And more to the point, almost anything other than boredom will certainly lose the race. You can't be yourself during an election. Every word you utter will be scrutinized by dynamic combination of the media and the opposition feeding the media. Case in point: what killed Howard Dean?
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Old 17th February 2007, 06:53 PM   #38
RandFan
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Originally Posted by hgc View Post
Thanks, I'm leaning to Obama. I like him. I think his biggest problem is everyone thinking, and stating, that America isn't ready.

If I do vote for him it will be the first Democrat that I have supported since Gary Hart.
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Old 17th February 2007, 06:57 PM   #39
RandFan
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Originally Posted by Rob Lister View Post
Case in point: what killed Howard Dean?
He acted like a lunatic.

Yeah, I agree. It was a rather silly thing to base one's decision on. Still, it's comedy gold.

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Old 17th February 2007, 07:08 PM   #40
Azure
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
Thanks, I'm leaning to Obama. I like him. I think his biggest problem is everyone thinking, and stating, that America isn't ready.

If I do vote for him it will be the first Democrat that I have supported since Gary Hart.
I like Obama too.

But I would like to know where he stands on most issues. I think even if he believes in certain policies that I disagree with, I will still vote for him.

*I'm an American citizen living in Canada, so yes I can vote in the US election*
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