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26th October 2012, 09:33 AM | #121 |
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oops, sorry. link: http://www.amazon.com/review/R2ATP6W...x304ZW3210CWQJ
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26th October 2012, 09:52 AM | #122 |
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Yes, I saw this yesterday evening. I was totally confused by the exchange (which I suppose was Christopher Allen/F.Lee's intention).
I am not ever surprised by the vociferousness of objections raised by the "true believers". After all, they have their entire worldview at stake. Allowing themselves a peek at reality causes them to have to confront a scaffolding of lies, self deceit, and delusion that they and their "therapists" have constructed. Most have alienated their family through their bizarre accusations and have no one left to turn to outside of their circle of co-delusionists. The fear of loneliness is far greater than their fear of existing within the framework of shabby fantasy. |
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26th October 2012, 10:00 AM | #123 |
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Yeah, F Lee runs a website where she actually keeps people in the DID bubble and solicits money from them. She has a lot to loose if the DID identity goes the way of fainting couches and vapors. Hopefully Doug will map it all out in a blog post that he can link. Narratives start to take wild turns when you engage these folk. It's very sad...wish I could give them all a reality pill. Must suck to live in a delusion like that...so limiting.
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26th October 2012, 11:10 AM | #124 |
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Having lived it I can say that it more than "sucked"
The delusions and parnoia are crippling. The constant fear is so unbearable many commit suicide. Even after leaving MPD/DID therapy it took me years to finally convince myself that I was not in danger of being killed by my parents in a Satanic ritual. And it's hard to leave the MPD/DID cult support group because they pull you back in by telling you that you are in denial, and if you say you aren't then you're told that :"It's okay, denial is a normal part of recovering memories of sexual abuse". Reading some of the vicious, disgusting, and ridiculous comments "believers" write it's hard for me to not hate them, but I don't, I feel pity for them. I do hate their "therapists" though. If here is a hell people like Judy Byington and Colin Ross will have a special place waiting for them there. |
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26th October 2012, 11:42 AM | #125 |
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Another way you can tell many of these stories are total BS is when a person has a memory as a baby. It's one thing to remember seeing something but quite another to have a meta cognitive awareness of their reactions. IOW "I felt afraid, like I had to escape." Completely impossible. Children function is the sensorimotor stage prior to 2 years old.
Example here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1sXbnBmy8U From what I've read about Language Acquisition, it's pretty much impossible to have memory of that type prior to language. |
26th October 2012, 11:53 AM | #126 |
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26th October 2012, 12:59 PM | #127 |
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So happens I know a blogger with a long, strange history with this Felicity, so I'm letting her write something up. She has author credentials on Dysgenics.com, so she'll probably post whatever she writes up there to. Being that Felicity takes donations for whatever work she does regarding DID, I think her bizarre behavior should be cataloged somewhere online. It's one thing to pull a strange and apparently senseless stunt like that, but it's another to come back and complain in the same thread about people not using their real names! That simply comes off as terribly disturbed and infantile... a complete unwillingness to accept any personal wrong-doing even when brought face-to-face with it point blank. It reminds me of when Susan Clancy released her book 'The Trauma Myth' and the DID gang all intentionally misinterpreted her thesis to be that Child Sexual Abuse is not harmful. Rather, Clancy was saying that sexual fondling, etc., usually often isn't traumatic AT THE TIME. Sometimes it's even forgotten (by the natural process of forgetting). It's when it is remembered when there is a social context to it, when the person understands the ramifications, THEN the trauma sinks in. Then it goes from being a bizarre, confusing event to being a full-on traumatic recollection. What Susan Clancy was never saying is that treating a child that way is okay. Well, that didn't work at all for the DID faithful because their belief is predicated upon an understanding that such sexual behavior is so naturally traumatic that repression and multiplicity can begin even, ridiculously, in early infancy. So now, all of the sudden, you had all these discerning "scientists" criticizing Clancy's data. On her Amazon reviews you find all these people associated with S.M.A.R.T. (Stop Mind-control And Ritual abuse Today, an over-the-top unhinged organization where, when I attended one of their conferences in 2009, they were actually selling electromagnetic-beam blocking hats), they were all saying that Clancy's conclusions were based on bad science. You have Ellen Lacter, whose website advises you to "pray a perimeter around everything of witchcraft", expressing grave doubts over Clancy's research. When I tried to point out to them that they maintain a belief for which the only evidence is plain anecdotes (as in 22 Faces, Sybil) and fancy anecdotes (retrospective surveys), they refuse to answer. When I ask them about S.M.A.R.T., they pretend that replying is beneath their dignity. They could not come face-to-face with what they themselves were doing.
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26th October 2012, 01:10 PM | #128 |
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Not sure about any Stalinists, but the writer of this book and Dr. Colin Ross (2008 Pigasus winner) like to bounce around the notion that a Nazi came to the US and started programming Manchurian candidates which resulted in folks getting multiple personalities. I forget if Judy's (the author of "22 Faces") account had the CIA as part of her delusion. Ross likes to involve them in all discussions. Doug had to read this crap. Worse yet, Jenny Hill, had to endure a relationship with Byington and parrot this lunacy, no doubt paying a price in terms of her mental health. Dr. Phil then parades this woman on his show along with Judy. Of course, it's some of the worst kind of BS therapy could dream up. Perhaps the Utah authorities should be visiting this author's "Trauma Research Center".
One last thought, if I were going to program a of bunch Manchurian candidates for anything, well first on my list would be white middle-class housewives, right? Duh. |
26th October 2012, 02:21 PM | #129 |
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26th October 2012, 02:33 PM | #130 |
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26th October 2012, 03:41 PM | #131 |
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26th October 2012, 03:43 PM | #132 |
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26th October 2012, 04:38 PM | #133 |
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26th October 2012, 09:11 PM | #134 | |||
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This link goes to this video
One of the comments from a person using the name illbetomorrow states,
Quote:
Does anyone know anything about this? |
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26th October 2012, 10:36 PM | #135 |
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Psychotherapy and the Recovery of Memories of Childhood Sexual Abuse: U.S. and British Practitioners' Opinions, Practices, and Experiences. Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology. 1995, Vol. 63, No. 3, 426-437
(full article here)
Quote:
(full article here)
Quote:
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27th October 2012, 12:04 AM | #136 |
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Quote:
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27th October 2012, 05:39 AM | #137 |
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JREFers.......HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLP!!!!!!!
Doug has tried to stop this "journalist" in Salt Lake from jumping on the sensationalism bandwagon. So much for that. BUT, BUT, BUT here's what we can do. Take the facts in this forum to the comment section of this article. Let's show our best and most rational side of persuasion for those who might be inclined to believe this stuff but have at least a little logic and their heads. Believers will always be...but the public can be influenced. Go for it! Through our civility, our logic and our facts, maybe just maybe we can take this article apart. Who's in for a virtual field trip here? Bring your water bottles and some snacks. |
27th October 2012, 05:41 AM | #138 |
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JREFers.......HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLP!!!!!!!
It appears I grabbed my water bottle and snacks but not the link. Here it is.
http://www.abc4.com/content/news/slc...dutF2O1Bg.cspx |
27th October 2012, 06:30 AM | #139 |
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Did and done.
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27th October 2012, 06:43 AM | #140 |
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Done and done.
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27th October 2012, 07:47 AM | #141 |
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JREFers you rock. By going to http://www.abc4.com/content/news/slc...spx?p=Comments and posting your very rational comments, you've changed the discussion in a matter of minutes. In addition, you had a person come and admit he/she engaged Judy in a therapy relationship even though Judy is unlicensed--a mere felony in Utah. Hopefully, the authorities take note. Keep posting...believers are gonna show. But JREFers are changing the story as it shapes. Woot!
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27th October 2012, 08:23 AM | #142 |
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I just saw this and commented on the "report". This aggravates me to end, as I REACHED OUT to Kimberly Nelson before she aired her report, and she chose to ignore me. Now, nobody can simply say that she didn't read the book, therefore she didn't know how ridiculous it is. She chose to ignore how ridiculous the book it. Then there is a little sentence at the end stating that Jenny Hill's sister reached out before the show aired to say that Jenny is mentally ill. Is that all she said? Why did she reach out to Kimberly Nelson, but Kimberly Nelson failed to reach out to her? I honestly would like to see Nelson lose her job. What she did should be considered criminal. Of course, Byington states: "You will find people who do not want 22 Faces publicized. You may wonder what motivation they have for discouraging its publication. Jenny is literally risking her life to be a voice for ritually abused adults and children across the globe." Of course. Ignore any refutations of my work, it's simply Satan's helpers sowing confusion and deceit.
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27th October 2012, 08:26 AM | #143 |
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In other news: DR PHIL DOES NOT LIST BYINGTON AS BEING ON THE 31st AS OF TODAY. However, Byington commented yesterday that she is still appearing on the show "soon". I'm not sure what to make of it, or how I should, perhaps, revise my open letter...
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27th October 2012, 08:40 AM | #144 |
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I remember the last satanic panic quite well. It was started almost entirely on daytime talk shows. I would not be at all surprised if she doesn't find another talk show to take her. As you know, daytime talk format isn't well known for it's high standards of evidence. The better approach would be for someone who was a victim of the false memory abusers to get on his show. Do you know anyone who'd volunteer for that?
And just as an aside, do you know if the Dr. Phil show with her has already been taped? |
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27th October 2012, 08:42 AM | #145 |
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You can only go with the facts as presented. Can you revise the open letter with a screen shot and take it from there? Say something like "Given that this schedule most likely came from her publicist who manages Judy's media schedule I am commenting on the facts as presented. If the facts are otherwise, please feel free to contact me so I may respond." Well, I am sure you can say it much better. But point is, clears you and puts responsibility on Phil staff.
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27th October 2012, 08:44 AM | #146 |
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Forgot to include link of the media schedule from Byington's Amazon page. http://www.amazon.com/Judy-Byington/..._athr_dp_pel_1
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27th October 2012, 08:51 AM | #147 |
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Wasn't there a letter from the show producer on her site somewhere...thanking her saying that they passed out her books, some folk would have issues with the truth of the story---they always do with some Phil stories, don't worry, God bless.
Her site is such an explosion of crap, I can't find it. |
27th October 2012, 09:07 AM | #148 |
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Hmmmm....In order to comment on Dr. Phil's site, I have to register. I'm wondering if it's worth it, to be able to post my comments on the site and start conversations?
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27th October 2012, 09:09 AM | #149 |
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Yes, the show has already been taped, and I reached out to them before the taping itself took place. If they are not going to use it now, that would be great. But if they aren't going to say anything, and leave us wondering... well, that's kind of annoying and anticlimactic.
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27th October 2012, 09:10 AM | #150 |
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Originally Posted by Altus
If you click on the details you get this.:
Quote:
Also looks like the family may be on the show to disagree with the whole DID thing. Although that's hard to say with the way it's worded. |
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27th October 2012, 09:11 AM | #151 |
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Since the show has yet to air, not sure. However you can go to ABC http://www.abc4.com/content/news/slc...spx?p=Comments where that story "aired" this morning and post there...you can also vote up the posts of other rational folk. That would help.
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27th October 2012, 09:24 AM | #152 |
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Actually, the taping happened over a month ago. Jenny Hill's sister refused to be a part of it (which I think is a mistake), but I'm sure she warned them as to what the facts are, as I tried to, before the shoot. As soon as the shoot was over, Byington was posting pleasant quotes from the producers, one of which was one of those infuriating statements along the lines of, 'sure, some people will object to your claims, but people always do (so I guess we can ignore them all in every case).'
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27th October 2012, 09:27 AM | #153 |
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I'm currently reading this exchange and find it fascinating. Good for you, Douglas Mesner, for standing up for truth, honesty and critical thinking.
Full disclosure, I had been considering writing a fictional book about a case of satanic ritual abuse and MPD that turns out to have been true, but I am now re-thinking that premise as, even if presented as fiction, the novel might encourage or support the real-world lie that is MPD/DID. Thanks for all your outstanding work fighting against these deceitful, harmful psychoanalytical practices. |
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27th October 2012, 09:38 AM | #154 |
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27th October 2012, 10:15 AM | #155 |
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Thank you for the kind words. As I have friends in the b-movie business, I've toyed with the idea for a while of making a film script based upon Satanic Panic material, following very roughly the outline of Michelle Remembers. I thought it would be interesting to show the story through her distorted point-of-view, where you see the satanic conspiracy playing out, while still making it clear that this is a delusion based upon therapeutic coercion. I thought that the therapist would be this caricature of unhinged Freudian philosopher who sees small acts, such as her taking his pen and failing to return it, as an overblown act of phallic theft. She would come to agree with this perspective and soon the pen even visually fails to be a pen. While the therapist gives a lecture to his esteemed colleagues, she takes to toying with the "pen" which causes him a Corsican Brothers-type of hyper-arousal which encroaches embarrassingly into his presentation. I thought that the climax in this story could possibly be that, in all her lamenting over her lost child, the revelation is that she had never been pregnant at all.
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27th October 2012, 10:17 AM | #156 |
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I revised the letter to a "forthcoming" broadcast. Less powerful than having a date, I feel, but at least now the time-stamp will be even further in advance than expected, thus, I think, more damning for it's irresponsibility...
http://www.examiner.com/article/jour...-health-menace |
27th October 2012, 11:05 AM | #157 |
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LibraryLady, Doug and I have already written our comments there so please VOTE FOR US !
*you can't miss us 'cause we use our real names Roma Hart and Doug Mesner http://www.abc4.com/content/news/slc...spx?p=Comments |
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27th October 2012, 11:17 AM | #158 |
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Voted, sweetie!
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27th October 2012, 11:36 AM | #159 |
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Voted and commented. The true believers are still commenting too though.
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27th October 2012, 12:10 PM | #160 |
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I am so beyond disgusted by this ABC affiliate broadcast. I am utterly infuriated to see the summary dismissal at the end of the article which simply states that Jenny Hill's sister claims it isn't true. Hill's sister has much more to say than that. And why did SHE have to reach out to the station, rather than the station reaching out to her?? And the report itself acknowledges the divine intervention, as though this ISN'T a bizarre claim. I get so frustrated. How exactly can you even argue somebody who is willing to accept such claims uncritically? How infantile are their minds?
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