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#961 |
Now. Do it now.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,804
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"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here. |
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#962 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 442
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#963 |
Now. Do it now.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,804
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No, more to the point, you've failed to convince others.
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"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here. |
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#964 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 442
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#965 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,010
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It still failed and rightly so.
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However giving a license to every idiot who fantasizes paranoid fears of someone simply being in their house to shoot people down. Well just no! This does remind of cases I've heard about of people deliberately luring people to rob them and then shooting them down.
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Frankly any sort of right to respond to mere trespass with potentially lethal force strikes me has evil. |
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#966 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 442
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Legally, usually. In real life, your assumption your (presumed) thief is one of the "vast majority" is a foolish gamble. Most of the time you'll be correct. It only takes one time for you to be wrong to have something happen to you or your family. That doesn't mean my first action would be shooting wildly at them, even if I owned a gun - I'd be getting my family off the property and calling the police. But no way on Gods Earth am I ever going to assume they would never hurt me.
Maybe you should read up about it then, most states have it in one form or another. It doesn't mean you can blow away the mailman, or a thief running out the door with your TV set. But if you have a reasonable fear of your life or your family is in danger, you can use deadly force without fear of prosecution. That's as I understand it, I'm not a US resident so someone may be able to chime in and confirm. No, of course it doesn't give you that right, nor should it. If the thief carried a gun or a knife or a baseball bat, then you'd probably have justification. If you shot them climbing out a window with your wallet, no. That's the thing. What to you in Canada and I in New Zealand seems like paranoid fear, probably isn't in South Africa or the US. If they're living behind high walls, barbed wire and own guns to protect themselves, then I think the law should at least not hamper a law-abiding citizen should someone find themselves up against a home invader, and should not unnecessarily punish them for their action afterwards. That said, you don't want to give license to the closet Dirty Harry type, which clearly Pistorius is. But I'd hope to think these guys were in the minority, and the majority are rational people. |
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#967 |
Now. Do it now.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,804
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__________________
"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here. |
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#968 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 442
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Sure, he's guilty of murder under SA law, and if you want to draw a line under that and learn nothing from it, go ahead. I don't think it's unproductive to discuss the definition of intent and self defence laws in general terms, and how they are implemented in other parts of the world.
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#969 |
Now. Do it now.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,804
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You might note, Hard Cheese, that some of us have been posting in this thread since day one. Dropping into it four years later and telling us what lessons we should learn is an interesting approach.
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__________________
"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here. |
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#970 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 14,924
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__________________
If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb |
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#971 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 442
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If you don't think you're getting anything more out of the thread, why are you still hanging around after four years? Just to stroke your beard and tut tut at anyone who hasn't been here "since day one"? Maybe you should ask the mods to close it, since it's served your purpose.
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#972 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 442
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No, I don't believe his claim at all - I think he shot his partner in a wild, jealous rage and tried to cover it up. But that's just my opinion. I accept there is the (unlikely to me) possibility that his story is the truth. This doesn't make him any less guilty, but I'm interested in whether they actually accepted (or even addressed) the veracity of his story in the appeal, or whether they simply ignored it because it wasn't legally relevant.
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#973 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 8,051
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This case resembles many others where debate rages around immovable datapoints. I consider the idea that there can be dual conclusions from the data absurd, as in Bain Bamber Lundy and so on.
This thread should get to the heart of the matter, and determine whether a cripple would stand at an oblique angle and fire randomly at his girl friend through a bathroom door. I do not believe it, but set against that is her apparel and the phones in the cubicle. |
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#975 |
Now. Do it now.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,804
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Is anyone disputing that he fired through the bathroom door? Does anyone, other than you, contend that it makes any difference whether or not he thought it was his girlfriend behind the door?
Those are the "fixed data points" which you have spent 4 years not understanding. London John explained the legalities of this in immense and thoughtful detail at various stages through this thread, and there isn't a single honest reader who could be left in any doubt after that. As with one single poster in the Sollecito thread, the only remaining issue is not one of fact, of legal interpretation, or of philosophy, but one of the willful ignorance and dishonesty of that one poster. Arguing that there is doubt in a case where there is no doubt is just displaying emotion, not intellect. Answer this one question straightforwardly and honestly, Samson: Do you understand that even if (as you and I both believe) Pistorius' story as told in court is broadly correct and honest, that his actions that night still constitute murder under the SA law pertaining at the time? That's a yes or no binary choice. |
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"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here. |
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