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Tags Facebook incidents , Facebook issues , free speech issues , internet incidents

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Old 22nd April 2019, 12:22 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Hmm I see it in conservative mindsets, breasts are of course horribly corrupting to the children, but hardcore nazi ideology is good for them.
That damn conservative social media site. Why good progressives even grace it with their presence is mind boggling. Good progressive need to show their objection by immediately deleting their accounts.

Better yet, flood your page with pictures of boobs and take your ban like a martyr.

Don't even get me started on that Tumblr thing. They just banned nipples...in 2018 ! This has got to be the work of Trump and his nazis.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 12:25 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
I was describing the, in his words, fine people of the Charlottesville unite the right march. But thanks for playing. But I guess merely him being in office doesn't count as since he got elected for some reason.
Post #104 again, the problematic one. "stadium sized rallies" Attendance at unite the right was what ? Unite the right 2 got upwards of 20, maybe even 30.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 12:31 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Post #104 again, the problematic one. "stadium sized rallies" Attendance at unite the right was what ? Unite the right 2 got upwards of 20, maybe even 30.
Got it stadium sized rallies to promote racism and white nationalism are good as long as they are not too explicitly nazi and just about promoting hatred through lies about Hispanics. There is of course nothing wrong with that.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 12:35 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys View Post
Words indeed mean thing, thus my point. We are so quick to label people we disagree with as Nazis when they really aren't at all. The very definition of the word can change under this practice. The meaning of words are always changing.
We are talking about people who label themselves.....
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Old 22nd April 2019, 12:36 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Che Geuvara's ideology called for mass killings of fellow citizens. Did you not know this? Well, you do now. So apply your free speech standards to that, what do you get?
Again it is a? I've not said anything about banning Hitler's photo and so on.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 12:40 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It is, however, a valid retort to "it's OK to do this stuff to Nazis".







Yes we are. Note that the thread title isn't even "Facebook bans Nazi groups". The categorization of other people as Nazis has been at the heart of this discussion from the start.
For you that may be the case but not for me. I've made it very clear how I am using the word Nazi, and it isn't me or others labeling someone a Nazi, it is the label they label themselves with.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 12:44 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Got it stadium sized rallies to promote racism and white nationalism are good as long as they are not too explicitly nazi and just about promoting hatred through lies about Hispanics. There is of course nothing wrong with that.
Ok, I feel bad, I'll give you that one, as long as we redefine the term "stadium sized" to mean the bleacher section of a middle school basketball court.

Just for this one though. Just this one. We need something, anything to prove the existence of the massive nazi menace and keep it on the front burner.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 12:45 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Might this forum benefit from following Facebook's lead and prohibiting such sentiments ? This whole skeptic thing appears to have run it's course and there's really no benefit to allowing that kind of thinking on this forum.
Is this forum a site recruiting white supremacists?

I think you may be misunderstanding the problem.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 12:49 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Ok, I feel bad, I'll give you that one, as long as we redefine the term "stadium sized" to mean the bleacher section of a middle school basketball court.

Just for this one though. Just this one. We need something, anything to prove the existence of the massive nazi menace and keep it on the front burner.
No I was talking the basic content of a typical Trump speech. But remember Trump supporters are nazis, bigots, and white supremacists.


Some I assume are good people.

So by basic reasonable definitions any trump rally can be taken as a nazi rally to do otherwise would be totally logically inconsistent and suggest that Trump might be racist. OF course he isn't and there is nothing demeaning about Trump supporters in any of this.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 12:53 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
We are talking about people who label themselves.....
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Again it is a? I've not said anything about banning Hitler's photo and so on.
People who wear Che t-shirts are labeling themselves. How shall we treat them?
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Old 22nd April 2019, 12:56 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
People who wear Che t-shirts are labeling themselves. How shall we treat them?
Treat them as sports fans cuz they're probably big fans of Che Stadium
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Old 22nd April 2019, 01:00 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
And yet, it is always and only implemented with violence. Must just be bad luck. Oh! Or it's not "true communism", how about that one? That was "stalinism" instead of "communism" (and Germany was under "hitlerism" not "nazism").

I don't think I can enough.
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Funny how peaceful things can be after you kill all your enemies.
And Capitalism always comes about peacefully, with the full co-operation of all of the people on both sides..... oh wait

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Old 22nd April 2019, 01:10 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys View Post
The Nazism of the first half of the 20th century? I'd agree with you. The modern form I am not familiar with enough to know what they want. I'm not even sure what constitutes as being one. Not being in 100% agreement with someone is enough to be labelled a Nazi. I don't know that I would say those people are inherently violent or calling for the killing of citizens as a number of those people end up being moderate conservatives or even far left leaning progressives. I have never met someone who identifies as a Nazi and would imagine their true numbers, the ones who actually act on their inherently violence beliefs, to be quite small.
I once encountered a guy who was a neo-Nazi. In talking to him, I was surprised to find that he was not a Holocaust denier. In fact, he said, the Holocaust was a tragedy... the tragedy being that Hitler didn't get all of them!
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Old 22nd April 2019, 01:11 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Is this forum a site recruiting white supremacists?

I think you may be misunderstanding the problem.
Any platform that allows anti-Islam and anti-immigrant speech can be a site recruiting white supremacists. This forum might even get on the SPLCs radar as a hate site.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 01:15 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
So by basic reasonable definitions any trump rally can be taken as a nazi rally...
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Old 22nd April 2019, 01:16 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
People who wear Che t-shirts are labeling themselves. How shall we treat them?
Do you really think that dedicated adherence to Che's politics (or even a passing familiarity with the subject) is common among those who wear the shirts?
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Old 22nd April 2019, 01:23 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Do you really think that dedicated adherence to Che's politics (or even a passing familiarity with the subject) is common among those who wear the shirts?
We've apparently already decided to judge people on the basis of superficial signaling, and not their actual actions. That ship has sailed.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 01:29 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Keep rolling your eyes, then. I'm not wrong.
How would you get the means of production moved from the people who own it to the workers?

Also the dictionary (google) specifically calls it class war. Maybe they mean peaceful war?
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Old 22nd April 2019, 01:30 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
And Capitalism always comes about peacefully, with the full co-operation of all of the people on both sides..... oh wait
Yes! Let's go with this! Ban anyone who advocates capitalism! And why stop there?



It seems like you thought this might refute me, but really, it supports my entire point. It doesn't work to ban people for support of abstract or historical violence, because everyone but pacifists will support violence under some conditions. And pacifism is a minority viewpoint which can only survive when it is protected by non-pacifists.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 01:34 PM   #260
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Again as long as "No you can use my soapbox" is "a ban" in your head we can't argue you down from your ledge.

Tell you what Zigg. Give me your password to this board* so I can login as you and speak with your voice. If you don't do that, you are banning me. Give me the keys to your house so I can walk in whenever I want and talk to your family. If you don't do that, you are banning me.

*Note to Mods. This is a hypothetical. I would obviously never actually post as another user.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 01:58 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Again as long as "No you can use my soapbox" is "a ban" in your head we can't argue you down from your ledge.
I'm using "ban" the way everyone, including the mods of this forum, use the word. I'm not the outlier here, you are.

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Tell you what Zigg. Give me your password to this board* so I can login as you and speak with your voice. If you don't do that, you are banning me.
This is a particularly stupid attempt at a comparison. If you were to log in and post as me, then other posters would falsely believe that those were my words. But nobody is confused about the fact that posts individuals and groups put on Facebook are made by those individuals and groups and not by Facebook the company. Furthermore, I don't pick and choose who can log into my account and post as me, nobody gets to do it.

The closest thing to a valid comparison with specifically my account would be you posting a visitor message on my forum profile page, and me wanting to delete that post.

But a much better comparison would simply be to... get this... banning a poster from this message board. And surprise, surprise, it's called a ban. By the people doing it, and by everyone else as well.

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Give me the keys to your house so I can walk in whenever I want and talk to your family. If you don't do that, you are banning me.
We've been over this before too. Houses are not like other property. But if a business open to the public refuses to let you on their premises, guess what? Yeah, that's a ban. That's how people routinely describe it.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 02:12 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
He's saying that after the fact "peace" can be achieved through horrible means, and we should be careful of using "Well it's all peaceful now" as an arguing point.

If the barbarian horde kills everyone capable of fighting back or dissenting, you've technically achieved peace.
I thought that that was what he was saying. Hence my question.
It's a pretty crazy reply to my post.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 02:31 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
People who wear Che t-shirts are labeling themselves. How shall we treat them?
Again I'm still not understanding what equivalence you are trying to draw. Can you just say it plainly?
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Old 22nd April 2019, 02:31 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by GnaGnaMan View Post
I thought that that was what he was saying. Hence my question.
It's a pretty crazy reply to my post.
Ah, okay, that's actually fair. It's the last paragraph of a five paragraph post that I didn't write.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 02:50 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Again I'm still not understanding what equivalence you are trying to draw. Can you just say it plainly?
Wearing a swastika declares one as a Nazi, and Nazis don't have a right to free speech, according to you.

Che Guevara was every bit as nasty and murderous as the Nazis. Wearing a Che t-shirt declares one as a believer in Che's ideology, and should likewise deprive one of the right to free speech on the same grounds, right?
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Old 22nd April 2019, 03:10 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Che Guevara was every bit as nasty and murderous as the Nazis.
Can you explain how you mean that?
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Old 22nd April 2019, 03:24 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
There is nothing inherently violent about communism.
I disagree.
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It is a secular religion that believes in death to infidels.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 03:29 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
I disagree.

--Engels

It is a secular religion that believes in death to infidels.
But that isn't inherently violent? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Old 22nd April 2019, 03:34 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Wearing a swastika declares one as a Nazi, and Nazis don't have a right to free speech, according to you.

Che Guevara was every bit as nasty and murderous as the Nazis. Wearing a Che t-shirt declares one as a believer in Che's ideology, and should likewise deprive one of the right to free speech on the same grounds, right?
Wearing Che Guevara shirts was cool and edgy back in the 90s, usually by kids who had no idea who he really was or what his ideology was. Do you honestly run into a lot of people who wear Che Guevara shirts now? I think it's been over a decade since I've seen one, which rather makes your focus on them appear to be both dated and a silly whataboutism.

But sure, I have no problems if Facebook decides to not allow Che Guevara groups on their site. Are there any?
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Old 22nd April 2019, 03:44 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It seems like you thought this might refute me, but really, it supports my entire point.
No it doesn't. It refutes your inference that only communism brings peace through violence.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 03:55 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
No it doesn't. It refutes your inference that only communism brings peace through violence.
That is your inference, not mine.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 04:03 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Again as long as "No you can use my soapbox" is "a ban" in your head we can't argue you down from your ledge.



Tell you what Zigg. Give me your password to this board* so I can login as you and speak with your voice. If you don't do that, you are banning me. Give me the keys to your house so I can walk in whenever I want and talk to your family. If you don't do that, you are banning me.



*Note to Mods. This is a hypothetical. I would obviously never actually post as another user.
Jesus Christ. I keep warning you. But does anyone listen? No. The pants-on-head-retarded arguments multiply without end.

As is Cassandra to the fall of Troy, so am I to the argument by analogy.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 04:16 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
We've apparently already decided to judge people on the basis of superficial signaling, and not their actual actions. That ship has sailed.
You're dodging, so I'll help you out.

You know that a Che shirt is almost never a political statement. It is more typically a fashion statement.

If you actually disagree with the italicized statement, let me know.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 04:18 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by Stankeye View Post
How would you get the means of production moved from the people who own it to the workers?
I don't know. Ask a communist.

Quote:
Also the dictionary (google) specifically calls it class war. Maybe they mean peaceful war?
It's a metaphor. You know, like how the "battle of ideas" is not an actual battle?
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Old 22nd April 2019, 04:19 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
I disagree.

--Engels

It is a secular religion that believes in death to infidels.
You might want to post a quote that actually supports your point.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 04:36 PM   #276
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I really don't see the problem here. If Facebook heads into a situation where they start banning anyone that even seems to suggest racist or separatism of anything else for that matter, then, so so what?

At the end of the day they will just be reducing their customer base, and that will hurt them, and you know what, it gives someone else that chance to come forward and pick up people kicked out of Facebook, and for them to build up a new platform.

If the worse was to happen in who was banned, then Facebook would end up going the same way as MySpace, Bebo, Google Plus, Vine, Yik Yak, Friendster, FormSpring, Yahoo! Buzz, Ping, Boly, Piczo. Friends Reunited, OtKut, Meercat, Yahoo! 360, Six Degrees, Peach, Eons, Pownce, FriendFeed, Capazoo.... and all the rest, and what woukld happen is that we'd have a new big thing.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 04:37 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That is your inference, not mine.

Nope, its yours - you own the claim - suck it up!
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Old 22nd April 2019, 08:18 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Wearing a swastika declares one as a Nazi,...
Prince Harry is clearly not a Nazi.

Nor am I for that matter. I'm not even racist, but I've enjoyed wearing a swastika for shock value in the past.

Even better, brown gangs, who are inherently not Nazis, use swastikas in NZ as part of their insignia. I find it quite amusing to be at the pad of guys who would be in the gas chambers with the Jews & Romany using them.

Your conclusion is wrong.

But it's ok, so is the next one:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Wearing a Che t-shirt declares one as a believer in Che's ideology...
Wearing a Che t-shirt in NZ is identical to wearing a ZigZag papers t-shirt. A cool design that means exactly nothing.

I know from long experience that almost no people who have ever worn a Che shirt know anything about him at all.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 08:21 PM   #279
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Meanwhile, and sorry to derail a discussion about Nazis rather than Farcebook, but that organisation and YouTube have done themselves no favours by still having multiple copies of the Christchurch video available on their platforms.

Words are cheap.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...ectid=12224469
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Old 22nd April 2019, 08:42 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
We are talking about people who label themselves.....
I could say I'm hung like a horse, doesn't make it true.

If they called themselves werewolves would you assume you needed silver bullets to kill them?
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