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Old 19th December 2019, 06:28 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
My MRI at the local county hospital cost the insurance company $4,500.

Few months later I paid cash at a private clinic for another MRI, complete with diagnosis. $515. That's 9 times cheaper.

That could be a problem, no?
The NHS internal price for an MRI scan is 130. Even someone not eligible for NHS treatment would only pay 195 (i.e. cost + 50% uplift)

Last edited by Information Analyst; 19th December 2019 at 06:29 AM.
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Old 19th December 2019, 06:38 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
People who don't think they have to pay for stuff don't bother thinking about how much stuff costs?
UK taxpayers are supposed to get a personalised letter every year showing what percentage of their tax went on different service, so a) they're aware of what they're paying for, and b) how much they're paying.
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Old 19th December 2019, 06:43 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Which is how much you paid, but not necessarily what it actually cost. It's a percentage of your income, right? Unless everyone makes the same income and thus pays the same in it can't actually cost that amount per person per year.
The letters are personalised to show exactly how much income tax/National Insurance the recipient paid, and the breakdown is based on the same percentages for everyone - 19.9% in the case of healthcare. The last time I checked, around 22% of US federal income tax was on healthcare.
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Old 19th December 2019, 06:45 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
UK taxpayers are supposed to get a personalised letter every year showing what percentage of their tax went on different service, so a) they're aware of what they're paying for, and b) how much they're paying.
How much do middle class Brits pay?
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Old 19th December 2019, 06:48 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
How much do middle class Brits pay?
The same percentages as non-middle class ones.
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Old 19th December 2019, 06:54 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
The same percentages as non-middle class ones.
It doesn't vary by income?
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Old 19th December 2019, 07:01 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It doesn't vary by income?
There are tax bands/thresholds. You could have looked them up in less time than it took to make that post.
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Old 19th December 2019, 07:04 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
There are tax bands/thresholds. You could have looked them up in less time than it took to make that post.
Tell it to IA. He's the one claiming everyone pays the same percentage regardless of income.
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Old 19th December 2019, 07:17 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Tell it to IA. He's the one claiming everyone pays the same percentage regardless of income.
I'm pretty sure he meant that the same percentage of tax paid goes to a given service regardless of income.

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Old 19th December 2019, 07:18 AM   #90
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The total tax you pay varies with your income, of course. Earn more, pay a higher percentage. However the percentage of -that- that goes to healthcare is the same for all. That's how it is here in Norway, too.

Perhaps this is a good way to make our USA friends understand the problem they have. Have them check how large a percentage of their tax goes to Medicare/Medicaid, and then let them compare that with what people pay in other countries?
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Old 19th December 2019, 08:43 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It doesn't vary by income?
Not the percentage of tax paid, no. If a person pays tax/NI, 19.9% of that tax/NI goes on healthcare. This is exactly the same as 22% of your federal income tax going on healthcare.

Last edited by Information Analyst; 19th December 2019 at 08:48 AM.
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Old 19th December 2019, 08:50 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Not the percentage of tax paid, no. If a person pays tax/NI, 19.9% of that tax/NI goes on healthcare. This is exactly the same as 22% of your federal income tax going on healthcare.
Mind you, this is more or less equivalent to a statement that money is fungible.

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Old 19th December 2019, 03:07 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Not the percentage of tax paid, no. If a person pays tax/NI, 19.9% of that tax/NI goes on healthcare. This is exactly the same as 22% of your federal income tax going on healthcare.
UK National Insurance does not and never did pay for health care. NI in theory paid for pension, unemployment, sickness and maternity benefits etc. Health care was always from general taxation.

In practice of course all government revenues go into a big pot. There is no hypothecation of taxes
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Old 20th December 2019, 03:17 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Not quite. We know we pay, through our national insurance contributions, but at that point the detail is of no concern. That 'cheat sheet' was a gentle reminder that use of the system shouldn't be for trivial reasons.

I was interested to note that a helicopter rescue in case of medical emergency in the US is charged at $12-25k, a crippling sum for many. Yesterday our son had to be airlifted from the scene of a paragliding accident at an obscure spot in S Wales with suspected pelvic/spinal injuries (he's out of hospital - on crutches - already, just a few minor pelvic fractures). Cost zero. Why should he or I or anyone else have a clue of the cost of each such rescue? It's a general benefit to society that we willingly pay for.

Here's wishing your son a speedy recovery. But it's worth noting that the Air Ambulances aren't government funded, they're charities funded by public donations. They were the big recipient from my local MAG group's annual show, we used to be able to hand over a cheque for about three grand each year, about enough to keep a helicopter in the air for an hour!

Every motorbike shop around here, and a large proportion of other shops, have collection tins for the Air Ambulance, bikers actually make up a fairly small proportion of those helped but when it's needed it's really needed, horse riders make up a much bigger proportion of call outs due to the chance of accidents occurring places difficult for conventional ambulances to traverse. I don't attend any horse events, but I'd hope they are similarly supportive.

Sorry for the derail, but too few people know the Air Ambulance isn't funded, and it's a cause that deserves support (as I'm sure you'll agree!)
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Old 20th December 2019, 04:47 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Here's wishing your son a speedy recovery. But it's worth noting that the Air Ambulances aren't government funded, they're charities funded by public donations. They were the big recipient from my local MAG group's annual show, we used to be able to hand over a cheque for about three grand each year, about enough to keep a helicopter in the air for an hour!

Every motorbike shop around here, and a large proportion of other shops, have collection tins for the Air Ambulance, bikers actually make up a fairly small proportion of those helped but when it's needed it's really needed, horse riders make up a much bigger proportion of call outs due to the chance of accidents occurring places difficult for conventional ambulances to traverse. I don't attend any horse events, but I'd hope they are similarly supportive.

Sorry for the derail, but too few people know the Air Ambulance isn't funded, and it's a cause that deserves support (as I'm sure you'll agree!)
I had no idea, so thanks for that info! I'll be online in a moment to make a donation He has two minor cracks in his pelvis and was discharged the next day and is a little immobile and on hefty painkillers. Friends recovered his car from a remote spot and the paraglider itself was unharmed
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Old 20th December 2019, 05:13 AM   #96
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It's that special time of year again, sleigh bells are ringing, snow is gently falling, and high deductibles are about to reset for the calendar year.

Sick people who have already met their deductible are trying to cram as much medical services as they can before they hit the new year and have to start paying up a new one.

People who haven't met their deductible would be best advised to delay treatment until January, as anything paid towards the 2019 deductible will soon be lost.

It's a good system. These are the kind of choices that Buttigieg will protect for me.
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Old 20th December 2019, 06:13 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
UK National Insurance does not and never did pay for health care. NI in theory paid for pension, unemployment, sickness and maternity benefits etc. Health care was always from general taxation.
I never said it did. It is a fact, though, that the percentage spends in the HMRC letters are based on recipients' total income tax and NI, not just the former.

You are, though, wrong in claiming that NI "never did pay for health care," as it most certainly did under the 1911 National Insurance Act.
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Old 20th December 2019, 06:21 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Sorry for the derail, but too few people know the Air Ambulance isn't funded, and it's a cause that deserves support (as I'm sure you'll agree!)
One of the designated landing spots for the London Air Ambulance is this school playground a couple of streets away from ours:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4507.../data=!3m1!1e3

I think it was primarily chosen because it's the closest "open" space to the nearby railway station. The last time it was used a few months back, it was for a casualty there.
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Old 20th December 2019, 06:25 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's that special time of year again, sleigh bells are ringing, snow is gently falling, and high deductibles are about to reset for the calendar year.

Sick people who have already met their deductible are trying to cram as much medical services as they can before they hit the new year and have to start paying up a new one.

People who haven't met their deductible would be best advised to delay treatment until January, as anything paid towards the 2019 deductible will soon be lost.

It's a good system. These are the kind of choices that Buttigieg will protect for me.
Buttgieg is no monster: he'll generously let you cool your wounded body in a wine cave until New Year's if you need to reset that deductible.
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Old 20th December 2019, 10:20 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
I had no idea, so thanks for that info! I'll be online in a moment to make a donation He has two minor cracks in his pelvis and was discharged the next day and is a little immobile and on hefty painkillers. Friends recovered his car from a remote spot and the paraglider itself was unharmed
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Old 19th January 2020, 01:12 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Schools seem to cut costs by serving the same junk food every week, and there's a similar story among low income families.

Dementia is the most costly condition in the country. Can't do much about it I don't think.
Obesity we could totally do something about. Smoking came down from the 1990s, why can't fast food?

Well, there's this: In Alzheimer Research, Glucose Metabolism Moves to Center Stage (JAMA Network, Jan. 8, 2020)

So the junk food in schools may be contributing to dementia ... longterm.
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