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Tags donald trump , US-North Korea relations

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Old 11th August 2017, 11:45 PM   #321
PartSkeptic
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
No General will support a nuclear strike against NK: it makes no military sense: bunker-busters are much more likely to hit critical sites.

The aim is psychological - to obtain surrender. The North Koreans know they can be devastated in a full-out nuclear war.

China is likely to say to the North Koreans that they will stay out of a nuclear conflict.

Read between Trumps lines. Fire and fury like the world has never seen before! That is nuclear.

So once again the cards are going against the conventional media wisdom.

Quote:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ump/559757001/

Trump almost certainly would not go nuclear in a pre-emptive move. "The U.S. is very anxious to avoid the first use of nuclear weapons," said Bruce Bennett, an analyst at Rand Corp.
BTW: The cards also predict a victory and good outcome for Trump
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Old 12th August 2017, 12:49 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Fire and fury like the world has never seen before! That is nuclear.
The world has seen those before. Even fusion bombs, which have not been used against enemy targets in live conflicts (those two were fission bombs), have been tested successfully. He must mean they've stepped up to antimatter.

Actually, no, I don't believe he even has a specific concept of what kind of weapons he's talking about. He just knows that "fire and fury" sounds cool. It's how all the coolest third-world dictators talk, and he wants to be like them, so he needs to talk like them.
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Old 12th August 2017, 01:08 AM   #323
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Isn't this the 7th August in a row that NK declares a state of war and threatens retaliations before the joint US/SK military exercises? "If you don't call off these drills, we WILL attack!"

The joint drills go on as planned and Kim does some launch to show off his military might and then it somewhat dies down til the next year.
The 'imminent war' headlines happen every August. Kim once even set a specific start time to preemptive strikes. (Many things have been considered by NK to be acts of war against them that require swift and severe retaliation - which doesnt happen). Last year, Obama sent over strong words and a few supersonic bombers to Kim's neighborhood as a response.

This year seems less predictable. (understatement?)
I think the US knows, with high confidence, that NK cannot and will not actually do what they are threatening....yet. They are getting closer though.

Those US/SK joint drills begin Aug 21 so we'll know soon if Kim's response is any different than past years. (Will the solar eclipse get bumped off the headlines that day?)

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Old 12th August 2017, 02:10 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
The results of the Tarot cards were a surprise to me.
Yes, drawing random cards from a deck will lead to surprising combinations. It's the interpretation that's entirely yours, however. Or are you saying that my goat entrails are lying?

Quote:
I did not expect that the US would do a first nuke strike and not so soon.
You do realise that this hasn't happened yet, don't you?
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Old 12th August 2017, 02:54 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Yes, drawing random cards from a deck will lead to surprising combinations. It's the interpretation that's entirely yours, however. Or are you saying that my goat entrails are lying?

If you flip a coin and designate heads as "yes" and tails as "no", where is the "interpretation"?

When I want solid definite answers I designate aces up as yes and aces down as no. If I want a month I layout six packs and the first one with an ace up is the chosen month.

You are so stuck on magic tricks that you are in denial as to how concrete answers can be given.

What I do is choose the questions, but that is the "art" of helping people to find answers. "Tell me the future" is a meaningless question.

I do realize that in order to get meaningful answers, the laws of physics must be broken to get cards that give "correct" answers. However, I do not "see" an obvious transgression and so even I do not have personal proof.

And if you can see complex answers in a set of goat entrails, then you must have a direct connection to God, and I would ask why you even need the entrails.
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Old 12th August 2017, 02:59 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Isn't this the 7th August in a row that NK declares a state of war and threatens retaliations before the joint US/SK military exercises? "If you don't call off these drills, we WILL attack!"

(snip)
Trump's words are that previous leaders were too wimpy to DO anything but talk.

Trump has said that when he acts, he will act to win and with overwhelming force. You think he is a braggart, and so you think he is engaging in a meaningless word battle. I think you are about to see action of some sort.

What about all the fears that Trump WOULD be prepared to hit the nuclear button? How come people now say that will not happen?
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Old 12th August 2017, 03:16 AM   #327
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They had that dangerously right-wing American John Bolton on TV yesterday saying that Obama was too soft in not giving enough practical encouragement for Isis to take over in Libya so that more black people could invade Europe, and not giving Israel and Al- Nusra head choppers and Saudi Arabia enough help to topple Assad for Israeli expansion, and not dropping a nuclear bomb on North Korea. I just think it's want of judgment not appeasement.

It's true that General MacArthur wanted to nuke North Korea during the Korean war. The British prime minister at the time, Attlee, went to Washington to dissuade Truman, and in the end MacArthur was fired. I'm not sure if that was the right decision or not with regard to what is going on now.
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Old 12th August 2017, 03:18 AM   #328
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
At the time when the US government needs to be sending out a clear coherent message Trump seems to have gotten into a fight with his own cabinet and the USA's allies. His ego demands that he tops Kim Jong Un's rhetoric at every turn. It's like a bad remake of Whoops Apocalypse.
It's a race to the bottom to see who is the biggest **** head.
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Old 12th August 2017, 03:53 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
The results of the Tarot cards were a surprise to me. I did not expect that the US would do a first nuke strike and not so soon.
Yeah, that's nothing. This is a serious topic and not something suitable for anything as dumb as tarot cards. Those are just for middle school girls to figure out if Billy likes them. The above contribution has no value.
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Old 12th August 2017, 05:17 AM   #330
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The really tricky part is when Japan cock-blocks The PDJT and shoots down the missile before he does.
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Old 12th August 2017, 05:48 AM   #331
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
If you flip a coin and designate heads as "yes" and tails as "no", where is the "interpretation"?
Well, "tails" as "no" is an interpretation. There's no inherent meaning to it.

Quote:
When I want solid definite answers I designate aces up as yes and aces down as no. If I want a month I layout six packs and the first one with an ace up is the chosen month.
What if you're wrong? You designate but the universe is under no obligation to match that.

Quote:
And if you can see complex answers in a set of goat entrails, then you must have a direct connection to God
No, I just designate what I see, just like you do. Simple!
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Old 12th August 2017, 06:32 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Well, "tails" as "no" is an interpretation. There's no inherent meaning to it.



What if you're wrong? You designate but the universe is under no obligation to match that.



No, I just designate what I see, just like you do. Simple!

Why don't you simply admit you were wrong? You look foolish with your twisted attempt at logic in a subject you cannot grasp.
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Old 12th August 2017, 07:10 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Why don't you simply admit you were wrong? You look foolish with your twisted attempt at logic in a subject you cannot grasp.

If your card tricks were working as you seem to believe they do then they would be telling you who really looks foolish in that exchange.

And it ain't Argumemnon.
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Old 12th August 2017, 07:12 AM   #334
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How can I put this nicely?

Why are we discussing the reading of tarot cards here as a serious thing?
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Old 12th August 2017, 07:13 AM   #335
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Why don't you simply admit you were wrong? You look foolish with your twisted attempt at logic in a subject you cannot grasp.
Do you have anything meaningful to add? By which, I don't mean your silly little game with cards. If not, take it to the appropriate sub-forum. This one is not for woo peddling.
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Old 12th August 2017, 07:30 AM   #336
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No worries, a nuclear response is just fine. Millions will die but they'll be mostly North Koreans.
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Old 12th August 2017, 08:44 AM   #337
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I'm not sure what choice we would have if we were attacked first with nukes. Our deterent against Russia and China is meaningless if we don't proportionally respond with nukes. You could probably do it to minimize civilian casualties but we are still talking 100s of thousands dead. One hopes someone is calmly and rationally explaining this behind the scenes.

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Old 12th August 2017, 09:32 AM   #338
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
No worries, a nuclear response is just fine. Millions will die but they'll be mostly North Koreans.

Thomas McInerney;
MCINERNEY:So, we have no choice, and by the way, if one -- if one artillery round comes out of North Korea onto Seoul, he gets our full nuclear retaliatory capability. Make sure he understands that. That artillery is no longer valid, because when we retaliate, we're going to retaliate with nuclear weapons.
SEAN HANNITY (HOST): Well, when I say no good option -- and I want to get to General Patterson in a second -- when I say no good option, if we have to strike, even if we have a coalition of the willing -- if we have to strike, we're going to incinerate that place.
The nuclear fallout, correct me if I'm wrong, even if we use, you know buster -- bunker bombs, and other technologies, is -- the fallout potential is dramatic. I mean, potentially -- am I right, or overstating the fact that millions could potentially die here?
MCINERNEY: Yeah, but they'll be mostly North Koreans.
HANNITY: What about South Koreans? What about the Japanese? What about nuclear fallout making its way to China?
MCINERNEY: You can contain that.
HANNITY: How do you contain nuclear fallout, though? How do you do that?
MCINERNEY: Well, you contain it with airbursts and the size of the weapons. Look how many weapons we dropped on Japan, then we were in there weeks later.

I wonder how many atomic bombs he thinks we dropped on Japan.

I wonder how he thinks fallout is contained by using airbursts. Minimized? Sure. Contained? Not so much.

This guy is a retired USAF Lt. General. He graduated from the USMA. He has an master's degree in International Relations. He also graduated from the Armed Forces Staff College and the National War College.

It's unlikely he is singularly stupid. How he can look himself in the mirror after spewing that kind of garbage is a mystery.
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Old 12th August 2017, 09:39 AM   #339
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Why don't you simply admit you were wrong?
About what? You admitted that you determined the meaning of the cards yourself, with no justification. Ergo, you made stuff up. Just because you drew cards at random doesn't mean the results aren't made up. They're just pieces of cardboard.
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Old 12th August 2017, 10:09 AM   #340
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Thomas McInerney;
MCINERNEY:So, we have no choice, and by the way, if one -- if one artillery round comes out of North Korea onto Seoul, he gets our full nuclear retaliatory capability. Make sure he understands that. That artillery is no longer valid, because when we retaliate, we're going to retaliate with nuclear weapons.
SEAN HANNITY (HOST): Well, when I say no good option -- and I want to get to General Patterson in a second -- when I say no good option, if we have to strike, even if we have a coalition of the willing -- if we have to strike, we're going to incinerate that place.
The nuclear fallout, correct me if I'm wrong, even if we use, you know buster -- bunker bombs, and other technologies, is -- the fallout potential is dramatic. I mean, potentially -- am I right, or overstating the fact that millions could potentially die here?
MCINERNEY: Yeah, but they'll be mostly North Koreans.
HANNITY: What about South Koreans? What about the Japanese? What about nuclear fallout making its way to China?
MCINERNEY: You can contain that.
HANNITY: How do you contain nuclear fallout, though? How do you do that?
MCINERNEY: Well, you contain it with airbursts and the size of the weapons. Look how many weapons we dropped on Japan, then we were in there weeks later.

I wonder how many atomic bombs he thinks we dropped on Japan.

I wonder how he thinks fallout is contained by using airbursts. Minimized? Sure. Contained? Not so much.

This guy is a retired USAF Lt. General. He graduated from the USMA. He has an master's degree in International Relations. He also graduated from the Armed Forces Staff College and the National War College.

It's unlikely he is singularly stupid. How he can look himself in the mirror after spewing that kind of garbage is a mystery.
Are you saying that Sean Hannity is a voice of reason in comparison?
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Old 12th August 2017, 10:38 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Are you saying that Sean Hannity is a voice of reason in comparison?
Exactly what I was thinking. The crazy is running very deep.
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Old 12th August 2017, 11:28 AM   #342
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Exactly what I was thinking. The crazy is running very deep.
Face it, if Smartcooky's avatar decided to join the Trump administration, it wouldn't be any worse.

ETA: given how much of a well-oiled machine the administration is, I think this quote from there is probably appropriate

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Old 12th August 2017, 01:46 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
Why would he? He says what's on his mind.
He had a retired four-star (Kelly) in the room at the time. I don't know why Trump is so determined to not consult an expert who is sitting right by him.

Sad.
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Old 12th August 2017, 02:45 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Are you saying that Sean Hannity is a voice of reason in comparison?
Every day there's something else you didn't see coming.

Hope we're all sleeping soundly?
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Old 12th August 2017, 05:11 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
He had a retired four-star (Kelly) in the room at the time. I don't know why Trump is so determined to not consult an expert who is sitting right by him.

Sad.
Why would he? He's got the entire national security apparatus of the United States at his disposal and he ignores them. What's one more expert more or less?
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Old 12th August 2017, 05:49 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Why would he? He's got the entire national security apparatus of the United States at his disposal and he ignores them. What's one more expert more or less?

And he's more expert than all of them put together anyway.

How do we know this?

He told us so. It must be true.
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Old 12th August 2017, 06:31 PM   #347
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And.. his ratings are up, probably because a certain demograph of Americans love war.
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Old 13th August 2017, 02:08 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
And.. his ratings are up, probably because a certain demograph of Americans love war.
This is dangerous, because we know the one thing he cares most about (besides himself) is ratings.
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Old 13th August 2017, 02:44 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Isn't this the 7th August in a row that NK declares a state of war and threatens retaliations before the joint US/SK military exercises? "If you don't call off these drills, we WILL attack!"

The joint drills go on as planned and Kim does some launch to show off his military might and then it somewhat dies down til the next year.
The 'imminent war' headlines happen every August. Kim once even set a specific start time to preemptive strikes. (Many things have been considered by NK to be acts of war against them that require swift and severe retaliation - which doesnt happen). Last year, Obama sent over strong words and a few supersonic bombers to Kim's neighborhood as a response.

This year seems less predictable. (understatement?)
I think the US knows, with high confidence, that NK cannot and will not actually do what they are threatening....yet. They are getting closer though.

Those US/SK joint drills begin Aug 21 so we'll know soon if Kim's response is any different than past years. (Will the solar eclipse get bumped off the headlines that day?)
I expect Kim will back off as he usually does.
Which Trump's supporters will take as only more proof he's right.
A view of history, even recent history, is not their strong point.
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Old 13th August 2017, 03:13 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by ShadowSot View Post
I expect Kim will back off as he usually does.
Which Trump's supporters will take as only more proof he's right.
A view of history, even recent history, is not their strong point.
Hasn't NK normally got something to help prop up their tin pot dictatorship for backing off? Like some food? I don't see President Goldfish agreeing to that.
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Old 13th August 2017, 10:19 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Trump's words;
"North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States. They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen... he has been very threatening beyond a normal state. They will be met with fire, fury and frankly power the likes of which this world has never seen ..."

Not sure how you manage to translate "... best not make any more threats ..." into "if you shoot at our people".

Obviously, translating TrumpSpeak is a more advanced skill than I had previously imagined.

Or has making threats become the new version of a 'first strike'?
Hmm, while I think you are reading something into his bombast, I have to accept that due to his bombastic nature your reading isn't that hard of an understanding to arrive at. Jeeze, this guy really has no filter, and sometimes I wonder if he thinks before speaking. (Wait, no, I don't wonder at that, he doesn't.)

So, his careless rhetoric leads to that impression. Sad but true.
Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Isn't this the 7th August in a row that NK declares a state of war and threatens retaliations before the joint US/SK military exercises? "If you don't call off these drills, we WILL attack!"

The joint drills go on as planned and Kim does some launch to show off his military might and then it somewhat dies down til the next year.
The 'imminent war' headlines happen every August. Kim once even set a specific start time to preemptive strikes. (Many things have been considered by NK to be acts of war against them that require swift and severe retaliation - which doesnt happen). Last year, Obama sent over strong words and a few supersonic bombers to Kim's neighborhood as a response.

This year seems less predictable. (understatement?)
I think the US knows, with high confidence, that NK cannot and will not actually do what they are threatening....yet. They are getting closer though.

Those US/SK joint drills begin Aug 21 so we'll know soon if Kim's response is any different than past years. (Will the solar eclipse get bumped off the headlines that day?)
Yeah, those of us who pay attention to the Pacific Rim for about 25 years are aware of that. Most of the knee jerk responses are from people who have not. But FWIW, Mr Trump's style is not helpful.
Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
The really tricky part is when Japan cock-blocks The PDJT and shoots down the missile before he does.
Now that would be hilarious. Wasn't it Atari who made that old video game (into which I put too many quarters) called Missile Command?

Originally Posted by C_Felix View Post
How can I put this nicely? Why are we discussing the reading of tarot cards here as a serious thing?
With Mr Trump going off on rants, and having his finger on the red button, it's either say a lot of Hail Mary's or consult Tarot cards. As this is a septic web site, it would appear that prayer and tarot are seen as equivalent. I've got a new prayer:

A furore badhairum libera nos, Domine
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Old 13th August 2017, 12:18 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
Now that would be hilarious. Wasn't it Atari who made that old video game (into which I put too many quarters) called Missile Command?
That game will always live in my mind as "DEFEND THE CITIES". I never did quite get the concept of the smart bomb.
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Old 13th August 2017, 05:09 PM   #353
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Mod WarningThis thread has a topic. Something about United States / North Korea relations, Trump and Kim's ability to use diplomacy...those sorts of things.

Things that aren't on topic include the Ukraine, Stalin, Nazi Germany, World War II. Fifty three posts not related to the thread topic have been moved to AAH. I thank you for your kind consideration at not providing more misplaced posts.
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Old 13th August 2017, 05:37 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
Hmm, while I think you are reading something into his bombast, I have to accept that due to his bombastic nature your reading isn't that hard of an understanding to arrive at. Jeeze, this guy really has no filter, and sometimes I wonder if he thinks before speaking. (Wait, no, I don't wonder at that, he doesn't.)

So, his careless rhetoric leads to that impression. Sad but true.

<snip>

Is this another, "He doesn't really mean what he says." argument?


That didn't even wash when he was just a goofy candidate making everyone who wasn't stupid enough to support him laugh at him instead.

Now he is the Commander in Chief of the largest military force in the entire world, and can initiate a nuclear attack on no other say-so but his own.

There are no "careless" words. He no longer has that luxury. Every government in the world is studying every syllable he utters with apprehension and probably dismay.

Do you think they all think of these sorts of statements as "careless rhetoric". They'd be fools if they did, because he has demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that he is just as capable of careless actions.

And there aren't very many people around him who show any interest in reining back those actions, much less with the power or authority to do it.

"That's just 'his bombastic nature'." doesn't cut it anymore. Those days are over. If he says it then he has to own it.

As do his unquestioning supporters.
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Old 13th August 2017, 05:37 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by jsfisher View Post
Mod WarningThis thread has a topic. Something about United States / North Korea relations, Trump and Kim's ability to use diplomacy...those sorts of things.

Things that aren't on topic include the Ukraine, Stalin, Nazi Germany, World War II. Fifty three posts not related to the thread topic have been moved to AAH. I thank you for your kind consideration at not providing more misplaced posts.
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Old 13th August 2017, 08:33 PM   #356
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We'll get through this excuse for a "presidency" without anybody getting nuked. But it won't be because Trump didn't order it. It will be because, when he gets a boo-boo on his ego one time too many and goes into all-out "Burn them all! Burn them all! Burn them all! Burn them all!" mode, everyone else around will simply ignore it. And then they'll try to stifle it so nobody ever hears that the guy they originally supported did that, but someone will blow the secret sometime after it's all over.
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Old 13th August 2017, 09:14 PM   #357
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Wow, what a douch this POTUS is. He could ignite wars with North Korea and here, in the USA, a civil war. All this winning is killing too many innocent people.
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Old 13th August 2017, 09:36 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Wow, what a douch this POTUS is. He could ignite wars with North Korea and here, in the USA, a civil war. All this winning is killing too many innocent people.
I think he's aiming for the trifecta, North Korea, the USA, and Venezuela.

Three wars at once, best war President ever, no one has started as many wars!
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Old 13th August 2017, 09:44 PM   #359
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I think he's aiming for the trifecta, North Korea, the USA, and Venezuela.

Three wars at once, best war President ever, no one has started as many wars!
Don't forget about Iran.
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Old 14th August 2017, 01:04 AM   #360
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
We'll get through this excuse for a "presidency" without anybody getting nuked. But it won't be because Trump didn't order it. It will be because, when he gets a boo-boo on his ego one time too many and goes into all-out "Burn them all! Burn them all! Burn them all! Burn them all!" mode, everyone else around will simply ignore it. And then they'll try to stifle it so nobody ever hears that the guy they originally supported did that, but someone will blow the secret sometime after it's all over.
The problem is that Trump has the weight of office behind those words now. Ignoring them may be a crime for some people.

I hate to say this, but I think his approach to the Korean problem is the first instance where I think he may have the right approach. Diplomacy, pressure, sanctions, six-party talks and more consistently failed over the past 20+ years. Trying the same failed approach over and over again is insanity, a different approach is needed, and the only one I can think of is Trumps'. Call the NK out on their bluffs, make them look bad and scared you will retalliate in a spectacular and deadly manner. They may not care about their country, but they do care about their own well-being, so there is a realistic chance for some success with the approach.

That doesn't mean I think it's a good way to go, just that it could be more effective than the past efforts have been. Thus far it already produced one result, Chinca threw off their disguise and publically admit they do, in fact, support the regime.

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