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Old 6th August 2017, 11:42 PM   #81
RussDill
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
Alexandru Duru already 'flew infont of a stadium of witnesses'.
However only two videos exist of teh whole thing despite some many many thousands of 'witnesses'. And the videos are deeply suspect, extremely compresses and low resolution.

This is what people do not seem to understand. If something did not happen in a stadium full of people then no one in the stadium full of people is 'in on it'. it just simply did not happen. Watch Alexendru Durus video of his flight. If that looks not even slightly suspicious to you i will be amazed.
BTW, I did follow up on this because you had backed away from the thread so I didn't post it, just wanted to let things go. I actually did a search for videos of recent sports events. I found that it was *extremely* hard and generally impossible to find personally recorded videos of professional sporting events. I thought on it a bit and realized that such a lack of videos is most likely due to take down requests. Professional sporting is very protective of their broadcasting rights.

This is the thing. If you have a theory, you have to investigate and follow through. So after investigation, no, it was not surprising that only official videos existed.

Quote:
Not to mention lack of photos.
False, the wire services have tons photos of the game including photos of Duru flying:

http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/...re-id689474748
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Old 7th August 2017, 05:13 AM   #82
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Youtube boasts 500,000,000 video channels.
There are 6,000,000,000,000 people on the planet.

= 0.00000833333%
(generously rounding up to 0.00001%) the world population have YouTube channels.

1 in 100,000 people in the world have a YouTube channel, assuming each is owned by a unique individual.

The fact that there are 2 videos of the world-cup event (which may have had 50,000 attendance) is fantastically good luck.

Even if you adjust/fudge the numbers by an order of magnitude or two, it still shows that people uploading to YouTube is actually pretty rare.

.
.
.

Oh carp! I just proved the videos can't be real. There are far too many when one considers the long odds. If it were real, you'd only expect a couple videos world wide, but there is a virtual flood of them, so SCAM!

If you adjust the numbers by an appropriate order of magnitude or two, it shows that such a video of such a device is virtually impossible!

Checkmate skeptics!
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Old 7th August 2017, 07:06 AM   #83
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uhhh....not that I'm not totally accepting of your checkmate....but you might want to check your math. Population is billion with a US, not billion with a UK.
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Old 7th August 2017, 07:42 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by RussDill View Post
uhhh....not that I'm not totally accepting of your checkmate....but you might want to check your math. Population is billion with a US, not billion with a UK.
What are three zeros among friends? The correction highlights how hoaxy/scammy these flying things are!

YouTube boasts 500,000,000 video channels.
There are 6,000,000,000,000 people on the planet.

= 0.00000833333% (generously rounding up to 0.00001%) the world population have YouTube channels.

1 in 100,000 1,000 people in the world have a YouTube channel, assuming each is owned by a unique individual.

The fact that there are 2 videos of the world-cup event (which may have had 50,000 attendance) is fantastically good poor luck.

Even if you adjust/fudge the numbers by an order of magnitude or two, it still shows that people uploading to YouTube is actually pretty rare.

.
.
.

Oh carp! I just proved the videos can't be real. There are far too many few when one considers the long odds. If it were real, you'd only expect a couple about 5 videos world wide, but there is a virtual flood of them, so SCAM!

If you adjust the numbers by an appropriate order of magnitude or two, it shows that such a video of such a device is virtually impossible!

Checkmate skeptics!
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Old 7th August 2017, 09:23 AM   #85
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And also, 500,000,000 / 6,000,000,000 is about ~0.1, or ~10%. Of course, 10% of the population doesn't have a youtube channel, many bots have thousands. I'm not sure what your point originally was, but it appears that it stands.
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Old 7th August 2017, 09:52 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by RussDill View Post
BTW, I did follow up on this because you had backed away from the thread so I didn't post it, just wanted to let things go. I actually did a search for videos of recent sports events. I found that it was *extremely* hard and generally impossible to find personally recorded videos of professional sporting events. I thought on it a bit and realized that such a lack of videos is most likely due to take down requests. Professional sporting is very protective of their broadcasting rights
fair comment and worth noting.

It would or could explain it.

How many people have facebook accounts though?

also videos of unique things tend to appear more than you would expect.

Side note from anedotal experience : I personally know of a similar (but real) event that happened at a rugby game at half time a few years ago, and i was able to find several videos online of the occurance. Not to mention several angles covered on various tv shows and by online papers. And that was not nearly as impressive as a man flying on a drone, and i am fairly sure youtube was not as busy then, nor did as many people carry smartphones.

Originally Posted by RussDill View Post
False, the wire services have tons photos of the game including photos of Duru flying:

http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/...re-id689474748
One photo.

side question - what is your opinion on the size of Alex's device, the size of his rotors and the size (tiny) of his battery ?

Why is nothing else LEGIT like this seen anywhere? How is the power needed possible from such small batteries? to lift a man and the weight of the battery needed to lift a man vtol style i would imagine to be rather large. Zapata's innvention seems possible as it uses chemical power and the jets can be shown to provide adaquate thrust.
Is this possible to show with alex's device - ie battery power, battery weight, power needed to lift man plus battry weight needed to lift man and battery etc



Why has he gone from falling in the water almost every time he 'flys', to happily flying over solid ground at a height which would guarantee serious death or injury to anyone, especially if strapped to something.

Did you notice both Him and Zapata got mighty brave or reckless about the same time ?.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loZDp6p1uo0 (sorry that its only 360p - its 2017)

Even Richard Browning mentioned that Zapata will be injured or die soon if he keeps flying like that.
Richard kept pronouncing his name wrong though whilst saying this, Zapta, Zapatata etc. coz you know - one of only two other people using jets for personal vtol flight in the entire world, using the same engines as him even, and he can not pronounce or remember the guys name.

its so obviously put on.

Anyway what is funny about it is that Richard and his magic flying suit have always been flying over solid ground and to be more exciting he is flying higher and higher recently. He is already flying too high to be safe for short moments - soon he will be soaring around like Franky and/or flying up to land on top of buildings or whatever. Because the MO is to see how far the hoax can be pushed.
You heard it here first. Richard will soon be flying at deadly heights just like zapata.

I wonder if he will remember then what he said about Frankies dangerous flights?

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Old 7th August 2017, 10:20 AM   #87
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one more question for RussDill.

I have watched every speach and interview with Richard Browning.

To me he seems to be lying often. I am capable of putting my personal belief aside about the reality of his device - and yet he is clearly lying in both language and body language during these speeches.

Have you watched any of his speeches? does he seem like he is lying? Put aside your personal belief about the reality of his device.
Just tell me if your intuition tells you if he is lying or not.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATe3hq5gZvE

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Old 7th August 2017, 10:29 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by RussDill View Post
And also, 500,000,000 / 6,000,000,000 is about ~0.1, or ~10%. Of course, 10% of the population doesn't have a youtube channel, many bots have thousands. I'm not sure what your point originally was, but it appears that it stands.
I guess my point is that YouTube video posters are a vastly small proportion of the population. When one is in the midst of, and a participant in posting videos on-line, it can seem like videos about everything are everywhere, but it is a self inflicted perception.

Work in an emergency room, and it can seem like a lot of people accidentally sit on light bulbs, yet in reality it's pretty rare.

For folks interested in these hover board devices, it can seem like they are everywhere all the time. That there should be literally zillions of them posted everywhere. It's hard to fathom that the vast majority of people 1) Don't care; 2) don't post videos; and 3) don't care about high quality video.
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Old 7th August 2017, 10:39 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
I guess my point is that YouTube video posters are a vastly small proportion of the population. When one is in the midst of, and a participant in posting videos on-line, it can seem like videos about everything are everywhere, but it is a self inflicted perception.

Work in an emergency room, and it can seem like a lot of people accidentally sit on light bulbs, yet in reality it's pretty rare.

For folks interested in these hover board devices, it can seem like they are everywhere all the time. That there should be literally zillions of them posted everywhere. It's hard to fathom that the vast majority of people 1) Don't care; 2) don't post videos; and 3) don't care about high quality video.
I have 31 relatives with whom I have contact on in facebook/email, none of the older generations have ever posted a video, of the six younger nieces and nephews they have put up about three between them dealing with sports they are involved with. So yeah most people don't post videos to Youtube.

Now between each other yes - concerning parties, events and travel sights.
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Old 7th August 2017, 10:56 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
also videos of unique things tend to appear more than you would expect.
That's why as part of my search, I also attempted to find newsworthy events that occurred at professional sporting events. Same result.

Quote:
Side note from anedotal experience : I personally know of a similar (but real) event that happened at a rugby game at half time a few years ago, and i was able to find several videos online of the occurance. Not to mention several angles covered on various tv shows and by online papers. And that was not nearly as impressive as a man flying on a drone, and i am fairly sure youtube was not as busy then, nor did as many people carry smartphones.
Don't know what rugby league you are referencing, but clearly, some sporting leagues may have smaller IP protection groups than others. And really, you seem to think of a man flying on a drone as a lot more impressive than other people do. In this case, the simple fact that any videos of events that occurred on the field that day taken by individuals are difficult if not impossible to find stands.

Quote:
One photo.
*sigh*....can we not play this moving the goalposts game? I gave one photo as an example. How many would you like? Your original argument stood on the merit of press services not releasing photos. Now it seems to stand on them releasing only one photo. You see how ridiculous this is?

Quote:
side question - what is your opinion on the size of Alex's device, the size of his rotors and the size (tiny) of his battery ?
This is actually a super easy thing to extrapolate. The fact that you haven't done it shows that you are either intellectually lazy or simply don't want to know the answer.

Quote:
Why is nothing else LEGIT like this seen anywhere? How is the power needed possible from such small batteries? to lift a man and the weight of the battery needed to lift a man vtol style i would imagine to be rather large. Zapata's innvention seems possible as it uses chemical power and the jets can be shown to provide adaquate thrust.
Is this possible to show with alex's device - ie battery power, battery weight, power needed to lift man plus battry weight needed to lift man and battery etc
Lithium ion powered drones are really well understood. Scaling them up is not a problem. There is a trade-off between prop size and efficiency, this is why the omni hoverboard has large props. In fact, if you scale this up you can get a quadcopter that can lift a human and be powered by a human:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Basically moving a ton of air slowly is super efficient. Moving a little bit of air really fast is on the other end of the efficiency scale. That's why the omni with huge blades is able to run on batteries, but the FBA with tiny turbine exhausts needs jet fuel.

Anyway, I digress. Lithium ion at 100-265 Wh/kg. Here's some formulas and real world data we can use:

http://www.starlino.com/power2thrust.html

The omnihoverboard has 8 props. Lets give a weight of 80kg for everything, including 8kg of batteries, and make the props 12 inches in diameter. To simplify, we'll divide the weight by 8. So each prop lifts 10kg including 1kg of lithium ion. We'll use sad 100Wh/kg batteries.

So, from the formulas, we'll assume a K value of 0.36. This gives us a required power of ~2300 Watts (for each motor). This would give us about 2-3 minutes of flight time. The actual flight time of the omni hoverboard is 1.5 minutes.

You could have done this calculation yourself at anytime. Why haven't you?

Quote:
Why has he gone from falling in the water almost every time he 'flys', to happily flying over solid ground at a height which would guarantee serious death or injury to anyone, especially if strapped to something.
He's gained confidence with his systems and the redundancies he has in place. Additionally, the idea that a behavior is dangerous, even extremely, somehow proves that individuals aren't engaging in that behavior is just ludicrous. This especially has no place given the fact that it's clearly a craft that can be made with today's technology and who's operation has mounds and mounds of easily accessible eye witness accounts, video accounts, and photographic accounts from dozens of independent sources.

You refuse to address actual evidence and instead throw red herrings, such as, "at this one event there weren't press photos", or, "*I* don't think lithium ion batteries could power such a device", or, "Isn't that dangerous?".
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Old 7th August 2017, 10:58 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
one more question for RussDill.

I have watched every speach and interview with Richard Browning.

To me he seems to be lying often. I am capable of putting my personal belief aside about the reality of his device - and yet he is clearly lying in both language and body language during these speeches.

Have you watched any of his speeches? does he seem like he is lying? Put aside your personal belief about the reality of his device.
Just tell me if your intuition tells you if he is lying or not.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATe3hq5gZvE
Why would I bother? Are we relying on his eye witness testimony? Again, red herrings. This would be like someone attempting to discredit an apollo astronaut in order to disprove the moon landings.
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Old 7th August 2017, 02:55 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post

its so obviously put on.
Yet almost forty thousand people watched that football match. It was after all the Cup Final, held in the national stadium. Are you in any doubt about that?

Where are the comments from those people saying "Hey! That didn't happen!"? When they got home and their friends who didn't get tickets asked them about the cool stunt just before the match began, do you think they all just assumed they must have blinked and missed it?
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Old 11th August 2017, 04:48 AM   #93
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Here's another "fake" flying machine video for Esspee to analyze:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 11th August 2017, 05:08 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Macgyver1968 View Post
Here's another "fake" flying machine video for Esspee to analyze:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
you don't want to know what i think about that one.

I have chosen to concentrate only on the small 'fit in the boot of a car' ' disruptive technology' type ones for now.

i tried to keep my focus only on thee flyboard air but that proved too hard.

As for some of the other devices, both contemporary and historical, i do have opinions on, but i will wait until the flyboard/duru/browning/jb-10 questions are answered before i move on to looking at any of them in any kind of detail.
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Old 11th August 2017, 12:44 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
you don't want to know what i think about that one.
Macgyver1968 posted the video and implied interest in your analysis, but through your mind-reading abilities, you've revealed that Macgyver1968 actually isn't interested. Macgyver1968 should be more careful in the future.

Originally Posted by esspee View Post
I have chosen to concentrate only on the small 'fit in the boot of a car' ' disruptive technology' type ones for now.
Disruptive technology? What does that mean, as the technology has been around for decades. What is 'disruptive' about it? Certainly, it's not the new feeling of being wrong, as it's most certainly not a new feeling.

Originally Posted by esspee View Post
i tried to keep my focus only on thee flyboard air but that proved too hard.
Yes, because ignoring evidence and declaring 'hoax!' for more that one device at a time is just too time consuming. One can only do this exhausting work of denial for a few devices at a time.

Originally Posted by esspee View Post
As for some of the other devices, both contemporary and historical, i do have opinions on, but i will wait until the flyboard/duru/browning/jb-10 questions are answered before i move on to looking at any of them in any kind of detail.
What questions remain unanswered on the listed devices? That they haven't admitted they are hoaxes?

After all, if one can ignore the historical devices that show the current devices are the next logical steps to the technology, then you can claim that the current devices appeared out of nowhere.

Perhaps a new Avatar would help:
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Old 11th August 2017, 02:21 PM   #96
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At this point, I think even if esspee saw it fly in person, he would still claim it was a hoax.
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Old 11th August 2017, 02:33 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
At this point, I think even if esspee saw it fly in person, he would still claim it was a hoax.
you know i have tried to see the flyboard in person.

I went to great lengths to do so.
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Old 11th August 2017, 02:42 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
you don't want to know what i think about that one.
I see you slowly moving your hand with your index and middle finger raised.

"These are not the droids you are looking for."
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Old 11th August 2017, 03:06 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
you know i have tried to see the flyboard in person.

I went to great lengths to do so.
I dunno. Can't find many videos of you doing that. None that looked convincing anyway. Could have been faked.

I mean I accept that there's no fundamental technical reason why people can't travel to southern France. I know it's been done previously, indeed it was achieved years ago. But there's just something about this trip that my intuition tells me is a bit fishy. You know?
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Old 12th August 2017, 04:17 PM   #100
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I present to you the most convincing footage so far taken of the real life iron man.

I was convinced that although the least likely to be a hoax, it was the least likely to actually be.

but i still swore that it was a hoax.

After this video i am not so sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9aV6-L-M5Y
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Old 13th August 2017, 09:23 AM   #101
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Old 13th August 2017, 09:32 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
I present to you the most convincing footage so far taken of the real life iron man.

I was convinced that although the least likely to be a hoax, it was the least likely to actually be.

but i still swore that it was a hoax.

After this video i am not so sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9aV6-L-M5Y
What have you to say about this video? https://youtu.be/vI8E4cda_ww

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Old 13th August 2017, 09:39 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
What have you to say about this video? https://youtu.be/vI8E4cda_ww
I found the cranes interesting.

Cranes were also present nearby for Casey Niestats human lifting drone flights.


But the interview was good, Adam seems very excited.

Richard was more relaxed than unusual.

Less nervous jibber jabbing and nonsense.
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Old 13th August 2017, 04:48 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
I found the cranes interesting.

Cranes were also present nearby for Casey Niestats human lifting drone flights.
You realise that

a) Both cranes are multiple blocks away, and one you can clearly see the building it's working on, and

b) Any urban area that is undergoing construction will have construction cranes that are visible from a large area around them.

How then are either crane "interesting"?
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Old 13th August 2017, 05:02 PM   #105
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I thought this hoverboard was real until it was debunked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4vE_vpkr90
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Old 13th August 2017, 05:46 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Jimmy9 View Post
I thought this hoverboard was real until it was debunked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4vE_vpkr90
Not sure why. It doesn't even get to the stage of engineering plausibility, it doesn't operate on any known laws of physics.
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Old 15th August 2017, 06:02 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by RussDill View Post
Not sure why. It doesn't even get to the stage of engineering plausibility, it doesn't operate on any known laws of physics.
This real life iron man is driving me mad.

Just the other day i start thinking it might be real afterall, but then now this video comes out today, 480p, looking fake as (even the grass effect looks very cgi) , and to add to it all, it even sounds like a helicopter for some odd reason, very like a helicopter.

Maybe someone more familiar with helicopters could even speculate as to which model it most sounds like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPeULcy1igQ

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Old 15th August 2017, 06:04 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
You realise that

a) Both cranes are multiple blocks away, and one you can clearly see the building it's working on, and

b) Any urban area that is undergoing construction will have construction cranes that are visible from a large area around them.

How then are either crane "interesting"?
makes me consider the chance of a 3rd crane might not be visible, and is being used to levitate Browning.
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Old 15th August 2017, 11:16 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
You realise that

a) Both cranes are multiple blocks away, and one you can clearly see the building it's working on, and

b) Any urban area that is undergoing construction will have construction cranes that are visible from a large area around them.

How then are either crane "interesting"?
Because when you're grasping at straws like espee is, you have to take what you can get.
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Old 15th August 2017, 11:26 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
This real life iron man is driving me mad.

Just the other day i start thinking it might be real afterall, but then now this video comes out today, 480p, looking fake as (even the grass effect looks very cgi) , and to add to it all, it even sounds like a helicopter for some odd reason, very like a helicopter.

Maybe someone more familiar with helicopters could even speculate as to which model it most sounds like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPeULcy1igQ
Your intuition is not reliable. Stop relying it.

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It seems really odd that you are attempting to "debunk" engineering devices and don't know what a beat frequency is.
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Old 15th August 2017, 12:56 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by RussDill View Post
Your intuition is not reliable. Stop relying it.

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It seems really odd that you are attempting to "debunk" engineering devices and don't know what a beat frequency is.
A while back he was shown the images of the flying platform from 1955 - he didn't believe that either. His intuition is broken it would seem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aVIzyWO1HE
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Old 15th August 2017, 01:07 PM   #112
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and yet another video, maybe this where Zapata got his idea
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27HaGvHzbgQ
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Old 15th August 2017, 04:56 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Jimmy9 View Post
and yet another video, maybe this where Zapata got his idea
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27HaGvHzbgQ
Yeah as has been pointed out to E. is that the technology is old, reliable and easily flown.

He prefers to pretend otherwise to garner attention.
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Old 15th August 2017, 08:41 PM   #114
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I will discuss the WASP once we have cleared up the Zapata mystery. ( and the other contemporary possible hoaxes ie Duru,Browning and Mayman)

Until then i will not comment on it.

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Old 15th August 2017, 08:46 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
I will discuss the WASP once we have cleared up the Zapata mystery. ( and the other contemporary possible hoaxes ie Duru,Browning and Mayman)

Until then i will not comment on it.
So they had single man carrying machines decades before you were born but you want to pretend its now impossible

LOL
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Old 15th August 2017, 10:37 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by RussDill View Post
Your intuition is not reliable. Stop relying it.

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I AGREE


It seems really odd that you are attempting to "debunk" engineering devices and don't know what a beat frequency is.
that was my initial thought too. Although i am not an engineer i was aware of the that effect and i have even traveled in twin engine aircraft many times and experienced it.

The Deadalus suit however has 5 jets, not two. And it sounds like a helicopter.
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Old 15th August 2017, 10:59 PM   #117
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Truly amazing what the big boys can do these days.

even water is now finally convincing in cgi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0MD1g_5dV4
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Old 16th August 2017, 12:06 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
that was my initial thought too. Although i am not an engineer i was aware of the that effect and i have even traveled in twin engine aircraft many times and experienced it.

The Deadalus suit however has 5 jets, not two. And it sounds like a helicopter.
I'd think it would be kind of self explanatory that if a combination of two different tones can produce a beat frequency, a combination of five different tones can also produce a beat frequency beat.

And no, it doesn't sound anything like a helicopter.
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Old 16th August 2017, 12:08 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
Truly amazing what the big boys can do these days.

even water is now finally convincing in cgi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0MD1g_5dV4
Ah yes, let's endlessly "what if" about CGI without ever doing any actual video analysis, speaking to any CGI experts, etc. Also, lets ignore that CGI doesn't explain these flying machines appearing at publicized events.
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Old 16th August 2017, 12:29 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by RussDill View Post
Ah yes, let's endlessly "what if" about CGI without ever doing any actual video analysis, speaking to any CGI experts, etc. Also, lets ignore that CGI doesn't explain these flying machines appearing at publicized events.
Lets see if Zapatas team fly the flyboard air in september AT the air show near barcelona.

you would think they would fly there right? I mean it is an air-show, the flyboard air is an exiting experimental aircraft, he has flown it in Barcelona before, and Yves Rossy is flying his real personal jet powered wing there.

Care to make a bet
?

Can't be for money as i have none, But more than happy to do some kind of sportsmans bet that he does not fly the flyboard air actually AT the airshow event, actually DURING the airshow event.

Last edited by esspee; 16th August 2017 at 12:33 AM.
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