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Old 10th October 2016, 09:02 AM   #201
esspee
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Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
So by that logic. General Motors was producing nothing buy hologram cars and or cars that really worked by having a fleet of gerbils in hamster wheels generating power, This can be backed up by them getting a Guinness world record for 'World’s Largest Flag Pulled by a Moving Vehicle' and we all know they are shysters.
I am not sure which post you are replying to.
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Old 10th October 2016, 09:05 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
I am not sure which post you are replying to.
I edited it for clarity
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Old 10th October 2016, 09:07 AM   #203
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My point about IMSC from the start is that it is a dodgy pink sheet company.

SO if the Flyboard Air is legit, why tell the world you are planning to sell to a pink sheet penny stock company that has a suspicious past and a bad reputation.

A compnay whose finances are so bad that thye just went bankrupt.

WHy not sell to - i don't know - someone like Lockheed? Boeing? Or at least company with a solid reputation or in decent financial condition.?
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Old 10th October 2016, 09:11 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
My point about IMSC from the start is that it is a dodgy pink sheet company.

SO if the Flyboard Air is legit, why tell the world you are planning to sell to a pink sheet penny stock company that has a suspicious past and a bad reputation.

A compnay whose finances are so bad that thye just went bankrupt.

WHy not sell to - i don't know - someone like Lockheed? Boeing? Or at least company with a solid reputation or in decent financial condition.?
I don't think this bankruptcy means what you think it means. IMSC is in a Chapter 11 (reorganization). LLL is buying a chunk of IMSC for a large chunk of change (if approved by the court) that will be used to fund other aspects of IMSC.

If I were Zapata and I wanted a payday, it really doesn't matter who the company is, or how bad their rating, as long as the check clears.
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Old 10th October 2016, 09:15 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
SO if the Flyboard Air is legit, why tell the world you are planning to sell to...
Yes or no question: Have you ever personally been responsible for raising venture capital for a new company?
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Old 10th October 2016, 09:16 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
Are you implying they went bankrupt after investing in the flyboard, Thus proving it's fake?

.
NO they never invested in it at all. Or intended to. However i believe there is a cross over in a that certain shyster is likely involved in both companies somehow ( Zapata Industries and IMSC). Disclaminer - this is pure speculation based only on a few random comments I have come across.


However, the whole IMSC thing was very suspicious and weird from the start.

We have a water sports company inventing an impressive never before seen aviation device which then an explosives detection company that has fallen on hard times, with no relevant experience, makes public plans to purchase complete with PR and conference call with Franky. ( instantly losing about 40% of its value.

A few months later - today - a 75% down day - pretty much declaring bankruptcy

p.s. have you read the transcript from the conference call? Its clear that certain words and parts are 'inaudible' for strategic or legal reasons.
Its conveniently the parts about the Flyboard Air. Its super odd - go read it if its still floating about online.

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Old 10th October 2016, 09:22 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
p.s. have you read the transcript from the conference call? Its clear that certain words and parts are 'inaudible' for strategic or legal reasons.
What is your evidence that this is why the words were inaudible?
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Old 10th October 2016, 10:39 AM   #208
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A little off-topic, but what do they use for fuel in those little turbines? Actual jet fuel? Household kerosene? Diesel?
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Old 10th October 2016, 10:41 AM   #209
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I seem to recall it was Jet-A1, so aviation-grade kerosene.
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Old 10th October 2016, 12:53 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
I seem to recall it was Jet-A1, so aviation-grade kerosene.
That's what my Googling indicates as well, although they mention mixing it with some sort of lube oil. I've no idea where a hobbyist gets jet fuel, but I expect if you've spent up to several thousand dollars on an engine you'd have figured that out.
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Old 10th October 2016, 12:59 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
That's what my Googling indicates as well, although they mention mixing it with some sort of lube oil. I've no idea where a hobbyist gets jet fuel, but I expect if you've spent up to several thousand dollars on an engine you'd have figured that out.
How different to other grades of kerosene is it? That is basically paraffin, is it not?
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Old 10th October 2016, 01:03 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
How different to other grades of kerosene is it? That is basically paraffin, is it not?
The fuels are typed and graded based on their impurities (everything aside from the base spirits). RP-1 for rockets, for example, is essentially JP-1 with less sulphur.
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Old 10th October 2016, 01:05 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I've no idea where a hobbyist gets jet fuel...
Any reasonably large airport. It's not hard to obtain, or restricted in any way. It's a motor fuel, largely undistinguished from diesel in terms of procurement and handling. In larger quantities, such as for flight test and operations, you have your own site tank and you just order a tanker truck delivery from Shell Oil or whatever your local petroleum distributor is.
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Old 10th October 2016, 01:35 PM   #214
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Anyone can buy Jet-A1.

RC aeroplane enthusiasts mostly use kerosene, but I have a friend who uses Jet-A1 in his RC jet, and he just rocks up and buys it at Nelson Airport.

Like any jet fuel, it has poor lubrication qualities so you have to add a lubricating oil like Aeroshell 500 or BP 2380. Ratios are determined by the specs of your Engine, but about 5% Oil to Fuel is about normal
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Old 10th October 2016, 04:49 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
I don't think this bankruptcy means what you think it means. IMSC is in a Chapter 11 (reorganization). LLL is buying a chunk of IMSC for a large chunk of change (if approved by the court) that will be used to fund other aspects of IMSC.

If I were Zapata and I wanted a payday, it really doesn't matter who the company is, or how bad their rating, as long as the check clears.

My impression, and the impression given by Franky and IMSC in the PR and in the conference call was that it was more like a kind of merger.

Franky was not just selling and walking away.
He and his team was going to be coming along to develop all kinds of other magic flying carpet tech.

So yeah - if Flyboard Air was legit, i think he would care who he shared his baby with and his own and his teams future with. Prob not some dodgy penny stock company like IMSC.


As for the chapter 11 bankruptcy not being what i think it is - please take this opportunity to back up the truck and stock up on IMSC shares.

These shares are around 75% cheaper than they were just this morning. COuld be a good time to buy.

Last edited by esspee; 10th October 2016 at 04:53 PM.
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Old 10th October 2016, 04:52 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
My impression, and the impression given by Franky and IMSC in the PR and in the conference call was that it was more like a kind of merger.

Franky was not just selling and walking away.
He and his team was going to be coming along to develop all kinds of other magic flying carpet tech.

So yeah - if legit, i think he would care who he shared his baby with and his teams future with.


As for the chapter 11 bankruptcy not being what i think it is - please take this opportunity to back up the truck and stock up on IMSC shares.

These shares are around 75% cheaper than they were just this morning.
I'm too old for risky endeavors...

Including buying penny stock.
Including riding a flyboard... anything.

But, that is neither here nor there on the reality of either / both.
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Old 10th October 2016, 05:06 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
My impression...
Again, have you ever been personally responsible for arranging VC financing for a company? Especially a company you started?
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Old 10th October 2016, 05:11 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Again, have you ever been personally responsible for arranging VC financing for a company? Especially a company you started?
Its easy to badger a witness. Anyone can do that.

its harder to stand up and give a personal opinion and stand by it.

WIth that in mind I have a question.

Do you think the Flyboard Air is 'real' as represented in the many videos on-line. And that no intentional deception is taking place?

WOuld you bet money on it being real?

Feel free to avoid the question if you wish - no need to justify doing so if you do decide not to go on record with your own opinion.
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Old 10th October 2016, 05:36 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
Its easy to badger a witness. Anyone can do that.

its harder to stand up and give a personal opinion and stand by it.

WIth that in mind I have a question.

Do you think the Flyboard Air is 'real' as represented in the many videos on-line. And that no intentional deception is taking place?

WOuld you bet money on it being real?

Feel free to avoid the question if you wish - no need to justify doing so if you do decide not to go on record with your own opinion.
As I've said to you in the past, I will bet REAL money that Flyboard Air is real, as demonstrated.

Let's set up an escrow account, you name the amount. 2 to 1 odds.
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Old 10th October 2016, 05:47 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
WIth that in mind I have a question.

Do you think the Flyboard Air is 'real' as represented in the many videos on-line. And that no intentional deception is taking place?

WOuld you bet money on it being real?
NZ$100 says its real
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Old 10th October 2016, 06:00 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
Would you like to comment on the following aspects of this story.

1. Why does his ground crew wear shorts and trainers, and other unsuitable clothing? (as seen in one of my recent videos)
2. Why was he training above concrete without a safety line or crash mats? (as seen in my last video)
3. Why were his florida flights barely covered in the USA?



You can answer these questions, or you can ignore them like everyone has.
I'll play. I stopped reading at page 4 so apologies if I'm repeating.

1. Already been addressed. To swim. Logic.

2. Because he's a thrillseeker. Refer to the many videos out there of his thrill seeking antics.

3. Because he has no sponsorship? Just a guess. I notice his suit, helmet, base, etc, are devoid of sponsorship. I imagine the incestuous corporate relationship with media and aviation may be part of your answer.

Also .... it was covered by media.
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Old 10th October 2016, 06:06 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by Shiner View Post
I'll play. I stopped reading at page 4 so apologies if I'm repeating.

1. Already been addressed. To swim. Logic.

2. Because he's a thrillseeker. Refer to the many videos out there of his thrill seeking antics.

3. Because he has no sponsorship? Just a guess. I notice his suit, helmet, base, etc, are devoid of sponsorship. I imagine the incestuous corporate relationship with media and aviation may be part of your answer.

Also .... it was covered by media.
Erm...it was not covered by the media. ( Talking here about he Florida display in the USA)

The only coverage ( i think two articles and one local news segment) used the footage from the viral facebook video. No independent photos or video taken by news agencies will be found in any article.

The only on the ground coverage of the actual 'world championship' online , which included an interview with Franky himself, made no mention of the Flyboard Air. Even Franky did not mention it in the interview. Is that odd? Well to me, no. because everything is odd about this story, nothing is not odd.


In summary - I do not count that as being covered in the media.


But to be honest - the modern news media is an ass anyway - so i guess my point it moot.


p.s. if anyone can find PHOTO from the recent Florida display that is not a still image from the videos, please paste a link for me to check it out.

I have been looking for a while.

Last edited by esspee; 10th October 2016 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 10th October 2016, 06:12 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
Its easy to badger a witness. Anyone can do that.
Looks like I touched a nerve. It's easy to insinuate expertise you don't have, and we've already caught you doing that. You're asking us to believe your analysis of a VC funding episode. The degree to which we're willing to do that depends on your prior experience with VC funding. So I'll ask one last time before I conclude the obvious: Have you had any personal experience arranging VC funding?

A simple yes or no will do.
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Old 10th October 2016, 06:14 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
Erm...it was not covered by the media.

The only coverage ( i think two articles and one local news segment) used the footage from eh viral facebook video.
Those two statements don't correlate.

Do you think they all should have had their own drones, or would they just use the best footage available? Much less work to link a youtube video.

With all hoo-haa about FAA on his case, I'm not surprised he didn't mention it. He really doesn't need to though. Seems like ths millions of hits that the videos get on Facebook are doing the job for him.

Originally Posted by esspee View Post
..... so i guess my point it moot.
I guess?
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Old 10th October 2016, 06:17 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
WIth that in mind I have a question.
It's also the typical behavior of a conspiracy theorist to deflect uncomfortable questions by turnabout, trying to shift the burden of proof.

Quote:
Do you think the Flyboard Air is 'real' as represented in the many videos on-line. And that no intentional deception is taking place?
I have nearly three decades experience in aerospace engineering development. The claims made regarding the Flyboard are plausible. You have attempted to write them off as deception. I find your arguments unconvincing, for the reasons I explained some time ago.

Now stop trying to shift the burden of proof and answer the questions I asked you regarding the basis of your funding analysis.

Last edited by JayUtah; 10th October 2016 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 10th October 2016, 06:25 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
It's also the typical behavior of a conspiracy theorist to deflect uncomfortable questions by turnabout, trying to shift the burden of proof.



I have nearly three decades experience in aerospace engineering development. The claims made regarding the Flyboard are plausible. You have attempted to write them off as deception. I find your arguments unconvincing, for the reasons I explained some time ago.

Now stop trying to shift the burden of proof and answer the questions I asked you regarding the basis of your funding analysis.
I believe that the tech is plausible too. This is not the point.
It is fully plausible.
FOr me the videos do not ring true, the story does not ring true, the details do not ring true,

ANd I am not shifting any burden of proof. I am just asking for your opinion. Your opinion does not require proof.

i am asking you simply if you think it is real.

I already said you did not need to justify avoiding actually expressing an opinion.

however - I still retain the right to find it interesting and noteworthy that you are not taking a position nor expressing an opinion about your personal belief in it being real or not...

so far you have taken th line of not expressing a belief either way. This is why i ask , do you have the plums to state your belief?


Last edited by esspee; 10th October 2016 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 10th October 2016, 06:33 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
This is not the point.
It is for me.

Quote:
Your opinion does not require proof.
Nor is my opinion relevant to whether or not your claims have merit.

Quote:
I retain the right to find it interesting and noteworthy that you are not taking a position nor expressing an opinion about your personal belief in it being real or not...
Poisoning the well. I think the technology is plausible. On that basis I find it probable that the Flyboard claims are real. You have given me no reason to believe otherwise. On the contrary, your ongoing evasion and implicit deception give me a good reason to distrust you.

I find it interesting and noteworthy that you won't answer a very simple question that lies at the basis of the arguments you've made today. You say Flyboard is improbable because your analysis of a VC engagement raises points you find suspicious. I say that judgment has probative value only if you have prior experience negotiating VC funding.

I've given you three chances to answer the question, and three times you've evaded it. My impression is that (1) you have no relevant experience, (2) you know that such experience would be necessary for your judgment to have probative value, and (3) you are concealing your inexperience in order not to have to concede a point you now see is weak.

It's up to you whether you want to continue behaving like a conspiracy theorist.
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Old 10th October 2016, 06:35 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Looks like I touched a nerve. It's easy to insinuate expertise you don't have, and we've already caught you doing that. You're asking us to believe your analysis of a VC funding episode. The degree to which we're willing to do that depends on your prior experience with VC funding. So I'll ask one last time before I conclude the obvious: Have you had any personal experience arranging VC funding?

A simple yes or no will do.
I don't need experience in 'VC funding' to know that selling to a dodgy penny stock company is suspect.

I told everyone who i could who was giving me criticism or even using my youtube channel to shill buying IMSC shares, that it was a bad bad idea to get involved buying IMSC

i was right. Did i need experience running ED companies to know this? No. Did i need to be a pro trader in pink sheets to know this? No.

Anyone who bought on Zapata on possible merger news (that the internet was pumped full of) is today in the hole in a big big way.

75% drop in about 30 minutes. I saw that live. insane!

p.s. waiting for your opinion on if the flyboard air is real or not.
<crickets>

Last edited by esspee; 10th October 2016 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 10th October 2016, 06:37 PM   #229
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what teh F is VC funding?

haha
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Old 10th October 2016, 06:39 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
I don't need experience in 'VC funding'...
Just like you didn't need expertise in all the other stuff you discovered too late you needed expertise in.

Yeah, you have no experience. Your "analysis" means nothing.

Quote:
p.s. waiting for your opinion on if the flyboard air is real or not.
<crickets>
That's right; keep desperately shifting focus away from your bluff.
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Old 10th October 2016, 06:40 PM   #231
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Its up to you not to say that you believe the flyboard air is real or not.

I think you have taken the right choice in not taking a position.
Becuase it will be busted.


I am not the only person working on busting this hoax - its days are numbered.
You are one of the sensible people here - one who knows that none of us ever really know anything for sure.

i respect you more for not taking a position of belief on the flyboard.
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Old 10th October 2016, 06:40 PM   #232
JayUtah
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
what teh F is VC funding?
Only the lifeblood of technology development. Obviously something you don't know a single thing about.
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Old 10th October 2016, 06:42 PM   #233
JayUtah
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
Its up to you not to say that you believe the flyboard air is real or not.
I have taken a position both on the Flyboard and on your credibility. Are you even reading my posts?
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Old 10th October 2016, 06:54 PM   #234
JayUtah
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
I am not the only person working on busting this hoax
Hundreds of people have been trying to prove for decades that Oswald didn't act alone to kill Kennedy, that we didn't really go to the Moon, that the government is hiding evidence of aliens, and (for a shorter time) that 9/11 was an inside job. When you examine their methods with a dispassionate logical analysis, the only thing you find are that there are hundreds of self-proclaimed "experts" with no critical thinking skills, a delusion of grandeur, and a whole lot of spare time.

You're basically running the nut-job playbook. Just today you offer your expert analysis that a particular exercise in seeking funding is "suspicious" to the extent that a particular claim must be a hoax. You're questioned on your experiential basis for that particular judgment. At first you pretend the questions weren't asked, hoping they'll just fall by the wayside. Then you try to shift focus by turnabout. Then -- like every other conspiracy theorist -- you insist no special knowledge of expertise is necessary to draw your conclusion, effectively denying the need for expertise you tacitly acknowledged by first ignoring the question.

I can go to practically any thread in this forum and find exactly the same pattern of bluster and evasion. Similarly you tell us that video tricks were used to fake the videos, but you eventually have to admit you don't know anything about the tools used to do special effects. You assure us the test footage shows implausible methods of testing prototype aircraft, but then you finally have to admit you don't know anything about aerospace development and testing.

You're bluffing. It's pretty obvious that you are.
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Old 11th October 2016, 07:31 AM   #235
The Greater Fool
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
I don't need experience in 'VC funding' to know that selling to a dodgy penny stock company is suspect.

I told everyone who i could who was giving me criticism or even using my youtube channel to shill buying IMSC shares, that it was a bad bad idea to get involved buying IMSC

i was right. Did i need experience running ED companies to know this? No. Did i need to be a pro trader in pink sheets to know this? No.
No, you don't need to be an expert, you merely need google and the ability to read that IMSC has been in Chapter 11 Bankruptcy (reorganization) since the beginning of the year. I wager that anyone that intended to buy IMSC because of the announced purchase of Flyboard Air also read about the Chapter 11.

IMSC just sold (when the court approves) their current cash cow. They will then have a huge chunk of money to play with. They will pay down their debt then decide where their future lies... perhaps with the Flyboard Air to sell to whoever. They already have all sorts of government clients.

I could see someone, with all the information above, buying IMSC in spite their current situation. They are gambling on future value, not short term drops (that would be expected in this situation). All it takes is one lucrative contract with one government. But, such gambles are what penny stocks are about.
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Old 11th October 2016, 11:02 AM   #236
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Not sure if this footage from this event is new:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Keep in mind this is *the* post F1 Monaco party. It happens *every* year.

https://www.facebook.com/SunsetMonac...8147541305795/

"One of my favorite moments of the GP! 👌", "Was an epic moment!"

https://www.facebook.com/SunsetMonac...09064695880747

Please provide a plausible explanation for how they could have pulled off this event without someone noticing it was a hoax. While doing that, please keep in mind this stream of posts:

https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...A%222016%22%7D

I'm not sure which would be more difficult, denying that the party ever happened, convincing everyone involved in the party to go along with the hoax, or creating a convincing demonstration without an actual flyboard air.
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Old 11th October 2016, 11:10 AM   #237
ceptimus
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The competitor personal JetPack JB10, which only uses two jet turbines rather than four (or six counting the two small auxiliaries) was also demonstrated at Monaco this month.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 11th October 2016, 11:53 AM   #238
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by esspee View Post
p.s. waiting for your opinion on if the flyboard air is real or not.
Jay has already given it.....

Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
I think the technology is plausible. On that basis I find it probable that the Flyboard claims are real. You have given me no reason to believe otherwise.
... you're obviously not reading what he is posting!
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Old 11th October 2016, 03:41 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Jay has already given it.....

... you're obviously not reading what he is posting!
Which is why posts on the subject in the Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology thread has dried up.

He has no valid arguments to support his position, only innuendo, obfuscation personal incredulity and denial.
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Old 12th October 2016, 07:57 AM   #240
esspee
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Originally Posted by RussDill View Post
Not sure if this footage from this event is new:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Keep in mind this is *the* post F1 Monaco party. It happens *every* year.

https://www.facebook.com/SunsetMonac...8147541305795/

"One of my favorite moments of the GP! ��", "Was an epic moment!"

https://www.facebook.com/SunsetMonac...09064695880747

Please provide a plausible explanation for how they could have pulled off this event without someone noticing it was a hoax. While doing that, please keep in mind this stream of posts:

https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...A%222016%22%7D

I'm not sure which would be more difficult, denying that the party ever happened, convincing everyone involved in the party to go along with the hoax, or creating a convincing demonstration without an actual flyboard air.
The party happened.

i followed it up in detail on facebook. However no mention appeared on their facebook page of the flying hoverboard. No photo of it. This video only appeared recently, although one small clip seen in this video appeared in a september video.

Even with the link you gave me, they still don't have still photos up of it from the day on their facebook. Photos of everything but it.

Still photos (that are not screengrabs of videos) are rarer than hens teeth of the Flyboard air.

To summarize - the event happened, but no record of it outside of the videos existed online until around September, and now in early October. (That i could find - or that any of my fans and supporters on this page could find)

The only mention of it was on Zapata Racing website, no where else on google, and even that page about it on Zapata Racing got swiftly removed. It was up for a very short time - why did it vanish?

Just more weirdness as per usual.


Last edited by esspee; 12th October 2016 at 08:03 AM.
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