ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 14th November 2016, 07:32 AM   #121
pharphis
Graduate Poster
 
pharphis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,226
"removal of Muslims" /= ban

Did he say he was going to remove Muslims that are already American citizens?

Now, I don't agree with the "Muslim ban" idea, either, because it's wholly impractical (better to just ban immigration from an entire region if one is afraid of terrorism or illiberal values being imported).
pharphis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2016, 07:33 AM   #122
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 67,186
Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Which policies? Those he mentioned at point #1 or at point #2 or the ones he actually will do?
No one can predict what will happen in the future. One can only vote for the policies one knows about a candidate. Trump openly has racist policies and was generally a douchebag to everybody. Regardless of _why_ one voted for Trump, they also voted for those.
__________________
<Roar!>

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2016, 07:34 AM   #123
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 67,186
Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
Voting for Clinton would have insured a continuation of those policies. As articulated by Clinton.
Could you be more specific?
__________________
<Roar!>

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2016, 07:35 AM   #124
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 39,517
TRUMP THOSE ********!

https://www.boston.com/news/local-ne...ing-trump-flag
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2016, 07:42 AM   #125
Eddie Dane
Philosopher
 
Eddie Dane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,876
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Could you be more specific?
Clinton proposed a no-fly zone over Syria. An airspace used by Russia to protect their ally Assad. This is literally the point at which a proxy war (Rebels vs Assad) crosses the line where the forces backing those proxy forces (US vs Russia) come in direct conflict with each other.

That is, two countries with nuclear capabilities coming into conflict.

EDIT:

Plus continued support for AQ affiliates and the policy goal of removing Assad.
__________________
Kanye for president!

Last edited by Eddie Dane; 14th November 2016 at 07:47 AM.
Eddie Dane is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2016, 07:44 AM   #126
Bikewer
Penultimate Amazing
 
Bikewer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: St. Louis, Mo.
Posts: 12,028
Our neice, a thoroughly-American young woman with dark hair, was harrassed in a local convenience store by some redneck who accused her of being Mexican...

I wonder just how much of this stuff is going on, and what percentage of it actually gets reported?

Right after 9/11, a friend of ours was assaulted.... He's a Sikh.
Bikewer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2016, 07:52 AM   #127
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 39,517
Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
Our neice, a thoroughly-American young woman with dark hair, was harrassed in a local convenience store by some redneck who accused her of being Mexican...

I wonder just how much of this stuff is going on, and what percentage of it actually gets reported?

Right after 9/11, a friend of ours was assaulted.... He's a Sikh.
How many swastikas have shown up at the college?
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2016, 08:09 AM   #128
Klimax
NWO Cyborg 5960x (subversion VPUNPCKHQDQ)
 
Klimax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Starship Wanderer - DS9
Posts: 11,565
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
The muslim ban went back onto his website, it was only an accident it was taken down.

http://www.euronews.com/2016/11/11/t...te-by-accident
Ok.

Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
No one can predict what will happen in the future. One can only vote for the policies one knows about a candidate. Trump openly has racist policies and was generally a douchebag to everybody. Regardless of _why_ one voted for Trump, they also voted for those.
In general the wasn't much to his policies at all. And apparently there were quite few changes and contradiction. Mostly what given audience wanted to hear.

Also there were many reasons why anybody could vote for Trump. You're trying too hard to use that bloody broad brush. Hypocrisy is quite nearby to tit...

Note: So far, I see very good demonstrations in this thread why American politics sucks so much. Broad brushes, vilifications and attacks. Nothing more. I guess that's what happen when democracy has only two viable political parties for too long.
__________________
ModBorg

Engine: Ibalgin 400
Klimax is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2016, 08:17 AM   #129
Eddie Dane
Philosopher
 
Eddie Dane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,876
Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Ok.


In general the wasn't much to his policies at all. And apparently there were quite few changes and contradiction. Mostly what given audience wanted to hear.

Also there were many reasons why anybody could vote for Trump. You're trying too hard to use that bloody broad brush. Hypocrisy is quite nearby to tit...

Note: So far, I see very good demonstrations in this thread why American politics sucks so much. Broad brushes, vilifications and attacks. Nothing more. I guess that's what happen when democracy has only two viable political parties for too long.
There are no perfect systems. In the Netherlands we have a Xenophobic party that is made kingmaker by a small part of the electorate. In Israel you have ultra-orthodox parties is such a role.

I used to think our system was better. But these days I sometimes think America's de facto two-party system keeps the more extreme candidates at bay.

Except this time you have an orange-skinned billionaire with a gold-plated elevator and the most successful gold-digger since Cleopatra for a wife. Bit of a fluke, this one.
__________________
Kanye for president!
Eddie Dane is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2016, 08:24 AM   #130
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 67,186
Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
In general the wasn't much to his policies at all. And apparently there were quite few changes and contradiction. Mostly what given audience wanted to hear.
It's hard to ignore the undercurrent of racism and intolerance that permeated his campaign, though.

Quote:
Also there were many reasons why anybody could vote for Trump. You're trying too hard to use that bloody broad brush.
You're mistaken: painting with a broad brush would be calling all of his voters racist. I'm saying that the racism in his campaign was ubiquitous, and that his voters either agreed with it or it didn't break the deal for them.

Quote:
Note: So far, I see very good demonstrations in this thread why American politics sucks so much. Broad brushes, vilifications and attacks. Nothing more. I guess that's what happen when democracy has only two viable political parties for too long.
What I see is a lot of patting on one's own back by those who want to appear holier than others.
__________________
<Roar!>

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2016, 09:53 AM   #131
sir drinks-a-lot
Master Poster
 
sir drinks-a-lot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Cole Valley, CA
Posts: 2,930
Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
Sorry, but not "critical thinking failure". These incidents and more happened. That is documented.

Your charge of "fake" is not supported by anything but you wanting to dismiss the evidence. I know of a single case (in Louisiana) that there is evidence of possible fakery, but it is Louisiana we're talking about.

Unless and until you prove all the documented incidents are fake they stand as proof of my statement.
To support your suggestion that there is a massive wave of hate crimes against minorities by Trump followers, you'd have to show:

1) There has been an increase in hate crimes against minorities

AND

2) They have been committed by Trump supporters
__________________
I drink to the general joy o' th' whole table. --William Shakespeare
sir drinks-a-lot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2016, 09:59 AM   #132
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 39,517
Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
To support your suggestion that there is a massive wave of hate crimes against minorities by Trump followers, you'd have to show:

1) There has been an increase in hate crimes against minorities

AND

2) They have been committed by Trump supporters
AND

3)Dissolution them on Trump by his failing to do anything about the White Genocide.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2016, 10:01 AM   #133
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 67,186
Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
To support your suggestion that there is a massive wave of hate crimes against minorities by Trump followers, you'd have to show:

1) There has been an increase in hate crimes against minorities

AND

2) They have been committed by Trump supporters
Yes, though for 2, I think simply knowing that it increased following Trump's election would be quite a worrying development.
__________________
<Roar!>

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2016, 11:24 AM   #134
Delphic Oracle
Graduate Poster
 
Delphic Oracle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,859
Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
There are no perfect systems. In the Netherlands we have a Xenophobic party that is made kingmaker by a small part of the electorate. In Israel you have ultra-orthodox parties is such a role.

I used to think our system was better. But these days I sometimes think America's de facto two-party system keeps the more extreme candidates at bay.

Except this time you have an orange-skinned billionaire with a gold-plated elevator and the most successful gold-digger since Cleopatra for a wife. Bit of a fluke, this one.
The apparatus and patronage systems of the parties, for better or worse, did tend to keep outliers at bay. If they wouldn't take hard votes for the party or were constant thorns in the side of party elders, there were carrots and sticks to control them.

In the current era of gerrymandered 'safe' seats, their biggest worry is being outflanked from their own party's further extreme. A lot of the other old safeguards are gone.

I prefer a healthy 4-5 parties because then even if the parties can't keep their caucus under control (such as the situation that exists right now), they still usually have to build coalitions and that usually means setting aside some of their unilateral agenda in order to court another party into cooperation.
Delphic Oracle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2016, 11:43 AM   #135
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 37,210
I see all the Right wingers here are adapting a "There is no such thing as Racism" line.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2016, 12:24 PM   #136
Caper
Philosopher
 
Caper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,727
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Yes true white nationsists call themselves the alt Right and now not the KKK and snagged trumps chief policy adviser spot.
The alt-right is a huge umbrella term. But try going to where they are and announce something like. I'm Black (or gay or Muslim or all 3) and I support Donald Trump and you will get nothing but praise.
Caper is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2016, 12:25 PM   #137
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,371
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I see all the Right wingers here are adapting a "There is no such thing as Racism" line.
__________________
this space for rent
The Big Dog is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2016, 12:29 PM   #138
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 39,517
Originally Posted by Caper View Post
The alt-right is a huge umbrella term. But try going to where they are and announce something like. I'm Black (or gay or Muslim or all 3) and I support Donald Trump and you will get nothing but praise.
Or thrown out of a Trump Rally, like that one famous black trump supporter did. Trump mistook him for a protester for some reason and after that he wasn't safe.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2016, 06:04 AM   #139
C_Felix
Master Poster
 
C_Felix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Just outside Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,447
This is what the undercurrent of the Trump movement seems to be; some might feel they have been given a free ride with respect to racism and discrimination.

Quote:

A short statement on the election of Donald Trump

9 November 2016

Once the globalist-progressive coalition of Jews, minorities, and anti-white whites stops reeling in confusion from the results of yesterday’s election, we can expect them to start striking back with trickery and violence. Thus, we as Southern nationalists face both danger and opportunity.

Now, more than ever, we need tight organization and numbers to help drive a stake through Dracula’s heart and keep him from rising once again to menace our people and civilization. No mercy should be shown to the enemies of our God, our Folk, and our civilization. None would be afforded us.

I have been praying that God’s will would be done in this election, whichever way it swung. Now that we have a clear outcome, we trust in Him and make the best of the situation before us. May we move ahead with wisdom, discernment, and good judgment in all things.

If you are not yet a member of The League of the South, now would be a good time to add your efforts to ours in this fight for a free and independent South and the destruction of our ancient enemies.

Michael Hill, President

http://leagueofthesouth.com/trump-wi...sives-reeling/
__________________
Eqinsu Ocha!
Eqinsu Ocha!
C_Felix is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2016, 06:35 AM   #140
Cl1mh4224rd
Philosopher
 
Cl1mh4224rd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,355
Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
In general the wasn't much to his policies at all. And apparently there were quite few changes and contradiction. Mostly what given audience wanted to hear.

Which is funny, because that's one of the main reasons people will cite for their general disdain of politicians. And yet Trump is nearly impossible to pin down on any given policy and has lied during the campaign significantly more than any other candidate.

Folks, in their attempt to shake up the system, voted in the über politician, except without any of the positive attributes like experience and patience.

Also, if there "wasn't much to his policies", then what the hell were people actually voting for? If there "wasn't much" to what his supporters "wanted to hear", what were they actually supporting?

The ignorance and hypocrisy is astounding.

Last edited by Cl1mh4224rd; 15th November 2016 at 06:37 AM.
Cl1mh4224rd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2016, 06:40 AM   #141
NoahFence
Psycho Kitty
 
NoahFence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 20,903
Originally Posted by C_Felix View Post
This is what the undercurrent of the Trump movement seems to be; some might feel they have been given a free ride with respect to racism and discrimination.




http://leagueofthesouth.com/trump-wi...sives-reeling/
Dude's got a twisted definition of the word "ancient"....


Kind of goes hand in hand with these scumbags' lack of awareness.
__________________
you to the ignorant, uneducated portion ofAmerica too short sighted to see what's right in front of your cheeto loving faces.
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2016, 06:43 AM   #142
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 39,517
Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
Which is funny, because that's one of the main reasons people will cite for their general disdain of politicians. And yet Trump is nearly impossible to pin down on any given policy and has lied during the campaign significantly more than any other candidate.

Folks, in their attempt to shake up the system, voted in the über politician, except without any of the positive attributes like experience and patience.

Also, if there "wasn't much to his policies", then what the hell were people actually voting for? If there "wasn't much" to what his supporters "wanted to hear", what were they actually supporting?

The ignorance and hypocrisy is astounding.
The answer seems to be the most consistent thing trump ran on, white nationalism.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2016, 07:19 AM   #143
applecorped
Rotten to the Core
 
applecorped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 17,204
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I see all the Right wingers here are adapting a "There is no such thing as Racism" line.
I see you are seeing things again
__________________
All You Need Is Love.
applecorped is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2016, 08:27 AM   #144
Klimax
NWO Cyborg 5960x (subversion VPUNPCKHQDQ)
 
Klimax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Starship Wanderer - DS9
Posts: 11,565
Originally Posted by Eddie Dane
Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Ok.


In general the wasn't much to his policies at all. And apparently there were quite few changes and contradiction. Mostly what given audience wanted to hear.

Also there were many reasons why anybody could vote for Trump. You're trying too hard to use that bloody broad brush. Hypocrisy is quite nearby to tit...

Note: So far, I see very good demonstrations in this thread why American politics sucks so much. Broad brushes, vilifications and attacks. Nothing more. I guess that's what happen when democracy has only two viable political parties for too long.
There are no perfect systems. In the Netherlands we have a Xenophobic party that is made kingmaker by a small part of the electorate. In Israel you have ultra-orthodox parties is such a role.

I used to think our system was better. But these days I sometimes think America's de facto two-party system keeps the more extreme candidates at bay.

Except this time you have an orange-skinned billionaire with a gold-plated elevator and the most successful gold-digger since Cleopatra for a wife. Bit of a fluke, this one.
System in Czech Republic mostly holds together (despite several attempts), but it also permitted different kind of fun, where winning party was sidelined by president and not allowed to attempt to form new government and instead party in second place (president was former leader of it) got chosen.

Problem with two-party system, is with tendency to get more extreme over time.(us versus them and no need for compromises with politicians from different ideology)

Originally Posted by Argumemnon
Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
In general the wasn't much to his policies at all. And apparently there were quite few changes and contradiction. Mostly what given audience wanted to hear.
It's hard to ignore the undercurrent of racism and intolerance that permeated his campaign, though.

Quote:
Also there were many reasons why anybody could vote for Trump. You're trying too hard to use that bloody broad brush.
You're mistaken: painting with a broad brush would be calling all of his voters racist. I'm saying that the racism in his campaign was ubiquitous, and that his voters either agreed with it or it didn't break the deal for them.
Quite different statement from your original post...
Quote:
Quote:
Note: So far, I see very good demonstrations in this thread why American politics sucks so much. Broad brushes, vilifications and attacks. Nothing more. I guess that's what happen when democracy has only two viable political parties for too long.
What I see is a lot of patting on one's own back by those who want to appear holier than others.
Meh. I know system in my country sucks, but at least there are number of different viable parties which tends to keep bad things under control. (So far only one xenophobic party is keeping relatively close to being elected and that's mostly function of atrociously low voting turn out)

Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd
Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
In general the wasn't much to his policies at all. And apparently there were quite few changes and contradiction. Mostly what given audience wanted to hear.

Which is funny, because that's one of the main reasons people will cite for their general disdain of politicians. And yet Trump is nearly impossible to pin down on any given policy and has lied during the campaign significantly more than any other candidate.

Folks, in their attempt to shake up the system, voted in the über politician, except without any of the positive attributes like experience and patience.

Also, if there "wasn't much to his policies", then what the hell were people actually voting for? If there "wasn't much" to what his supporters "wanted to hear", what were they actually supporting?

The ignorance and hypocrisy is astounding.
His voters felt into same trap as many people in my country. We know this type of politician too well (about 80% of all politicians). (Yet many still forget previous lessons)

They voted for what they thought he promised them. (Jobs and something) And for many it was protest vote. Didn't matter what he promised, they just wanted to send message to Clintons, Bushes and co. Maybe Sanders could have gotten through.

Well, Trump's Big Mexican Wall might be one way to achieve "Job promise". Somebody has to build it after all, so it could be equivalent of Hunger Wall in Prague. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_Wall) And "keeping out illegals" is just pretext...

Hungary can explain and show why.
__________________
ModBorg

Engine: Ibalgin 400
Klimax is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2016, 08:36 AM   #145
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 67,186
Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Quite different statement from your original post...
And in what way are they related?
__________________
<Roar!>

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2016, 08:45 AM   #146
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 36,606
Sorry - deleted by user (me). Hadn't realized we were already on page 4 of a bickerfest and I was quoting one of the first posts in the thread.
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

Help! We're being attacked by sea lions!

Last edited by Foolmewunz; 16th November 2016 at 08:56 AM.
Foolmewunz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2016, 09:00 AM   #147
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 36,606
Originally Posted by Caper View Post
The alt-right is a huge umbrella term. But try going to where they are and announce something like. I'm Black (or gay or Muslim or all 3) and I support Donald Trump and you will get nothing but praise.
If they let you speak before they throw you out. Just before the election in a rally in NC... you don't recall the incident? Trump identified a black supporter as a protester.

The environment they've fostered has his supporters themselves thinking, "What the hell would a black person be doing here. Must be up to no good." Trump sure thought it.
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

Help! We're being attacked by sea lions!
Foolmewunz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2016, 09:24 AM   #148
varwoche
Penultimate Amazing
 
varwoche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 10,379
Originally Posted by Caper View Post
The alt-right is a huge umbrella term. But try going to where they are and announce something like. I'm Black (or gay or Muslim or all 3) and I support Donald Trump and you will get nothing but praise.
The same dynamic as when democrats embrace Generals ... 200 proof self-serving cynicism.
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
varwoche is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2016, 09:31 AM   #149
Beelzebuddy
Philosopher
 
Beelzebuddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,563
Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
Also, if there "wasn't much to his policies", then what the hell were people actually voting for? If there "wasn't much" to what his supporters "wanted to hear", what were they actually supporting?
Hope and Change.

Trump, despite all his failings, promised to change things for the better, while Hillary, for all her strengths, epitomized the status quo. That turned out to be a more important factor than policy, experience, temperament or capability.
Beelzebuddy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2016, 12:50 PM   #150
trustbutverify
Philosopher
 
trustbutverify's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,974
Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Hope and Change.

Trump, despite all his failings, promised to change things for the better, while Hillary, for all her strengths, epitomized the status quo. That turned out to be a more important factor than policy, experience, temperament or capability.
I agree. The fact that she was a left of center female didn't help.
__________________
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -- Mahatma Gandhi

Wollen owns the stage
trustbutverify is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2016, 04:14 PM   #151
C_Felix
Master Poster
 
C_Felix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Just outside Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,447
This is what the undercurrent of the Trump movement seems to be; some might feel they have been given a free ride with respect to racism and discrimination.
Granted, this could just be someone being a dick.


Quote:
The tweet encouraged students to wear white in support of white supremacy and had the hashtag "Trump 2016."
Read more at http://www.wral.com/racist-tweet-app...dGPdPDRL5YL.99
http://www.wral.com/racist-tweet-app...rway/16244516/
__________________
Eqinsu Ocha!
Eqinsu Ocha!
C_Felix is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2016, 05:49 PM   #152
Skeptic Tank
Trigger Warning
 
Skeptic Tank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,230
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
If they let you speak before they throw you out. Just before the election in a rally in NC... you don't recall the incident? Trump identified a black supporter as a protester.

The environment they've fostered has his supporters themselves thinking, "What the hell would a black person be doing here. Must be up to no good." Trump sure thought it.
Having fun lying about that incident?

The guy had a written note he wanted to deliver to Trump and was insistently trying to make his way to Trump himself to deliver the note. He was behaving in an unhinged and obsessive way.

Quote:
"C.J. Cary really loves Donald Trump. He has loved him for years, and he really wants him to be president. On Wednesday night, the 63-year-old came to a Trump rally in Kinston, North Carolina, determined to pass his candidate a note of advice: stop being so offensive on the campaign trail to women, minorities, and people with disabilities, or else “lying Hillary” will defeat him."
Gee... a black man (yes, this does reduce the odds he was pro-Trump) yelling out from the crowd and insistently trying to make his way to Trump to deliver a note that told him to stop being so offensive...

What ever might explain him being perceived as a protester and a thug, other than his race?
__________________
"Nothing is more certainly written in the book of fate than that these people are to be free. Nor is it less certain that the two races, equally free, cannot live in the same government. Nature, habit, opinion has drawn indelible lines of distinction between them." - Thomas Jefferson
Reality is going to force you to become me.
Skeptic Tank is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2016, 07:59 PM   #153
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 36,606
Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Having fun lying about that incident?

The guy had a written note he wanted to deliver to Trump and was insistently trying to make his way to Trump himself to deliver the note. He was behaving in an unhinged and obsessive way.



Gee... a black man (yes, this does reduce the odds he was pro-Trump) yelling out from the crowd and insistently trying to make his way to Trump to deliver a note that told him to stop being so offensive...

What ever might explain him being perceived as a protester and a thug, other than his race?
Speaking of lying.... why didn't you source your quote? Get that from YouTube? Or from the original Slate article, which was written to get to the denouement of the guy being black. Here's the headline of that article: Oops! Trump Mistook a Black Supporter at His Rally for a Protester and Called Him a “Thug”, and here's the part you haven't quoted:

Quote:
According to the Charlotte Observer, Trump spotted Cary, wearing sunglasses and a bright red shirt, after he had made his way to about 30 feet from the stage and began waving his note in the air while shouting “Donald!”

Oh, did we mention Cary is black? He is.

Anyway, Trump mistook Cary for a protester. Trump addressed him directly from the podium: “We have a protester!” he said, as you can see in this video at the 11:53 mark. Trump then said this to Cary: “By the way, were you paid $1,500 to be a thug?”

Thug! Thug. $1,500. Thug.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate..._mistakes.html



But thanks for playing. If a noted white supremacist says that it's perfectly understandable that he was perceived as a protester because he's black, that makes the case.

See? I wasn't lying. I was telling the anecdote. You can interpret it filtered through your perceptions. Others will interpret through theirs. Wanna bet how many see it as perfectly reasonable, as you do?
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

Help! We're being attacked by sea lions!
Foolmewunz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2016, 12:34 AM   #154
Klimax
NWO Cyborg 5960x (subversion VPUNPCKHQDQ)
 
Klimax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Starship Wanderer - DS9
Posts: 11,565
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
And in what way are they related?
Sorry, may have mixed up you with some other poster.
__________________
ModBorg

Engine: Ibalgin 400
Klimax is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2016, 09:21 AM   #155
Mumbles
Illuminator
 
Mumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,642
Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Yep. Totally irrational to imagine a person who has cozied up with hate groups and the alt-right will wind up with discriminatory laws.

I'm a maverick like that.
It's happened before. The worst of race relations in the US wasn't slavery, it was 1900-1940. And I said, way back in 08 when Obama was elected, that you were going to see a backlash in 2012 - and in truth, it was Donald Trump who brought it with that racist birther junk in 2011 - I underestimated white supremacy.

And yes, white people voted for incompetence and white nationalism this time. You might have thought you voted for "jobs" or "shake things up", and I get why many of his voters did, but you didn't.

ETA: okay, a majority of white voters. Should strive for accuracy.

Last edited by Mumbles; 17th November 2016 at 09:26 AM.
Mumbles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2016, 10:22 AM   #156
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 67,186
Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Sorry, may have mixed up you with some other poster.
I get that all the time. That damn fool Alumemnon keeps stealing my thunder!
__________________
<Roar!>

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2016, 01:28 PM   #157
casebro
Penultimate Amazing
 
casebro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 14,212
I keep checking back on this thread looking for some actual stats on an actual rise in hate crime.

Call me back when you get some.
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas.
Medium minds discuss events.
Small minds spend all their time on U-Tube and Facebook.
casebro is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2016, 01:30 PM   #158
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 39,517
Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
I agree. The fact that she was a left of center female didn't help.
And decades and hundreds of millions in politically motivated investigations might have had something to do with it.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2016, 01:35 PM   #159
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 39,517
Originally Posted by casebro View Post
I keep checking back on this thread looking for some actual stats on an actual rise in hate crime.

Call me back when you get some.
Got it, we can't talk about hate crimes for several years until we have the statistics in.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th November 2016, 01:48 PM   #160
Eddie Dane
Philosopher
 
Eddie Dane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,876
This is from a few days ago:

There Is No Violent Hate-Crimewave in 'Trump's America'

Please stop spreading unsubstantiated stories of Trump-induced terror.
Elizabeth Nolan Brown|Nov. 11, 2016 12:40 pm

Quote:
The first one to really go viral involved a Muslim female student at the University of Louisiana who claimed to have had her hijab ripped off and her wallet stolen the day after Trump's election by two white men wearing Trump hats. But on Thursday, local police announced that the young woman had admitted she fabricated the story. "This incident is no longer under investigation," the Lafayette Police Department said in a press release.

In another incident, this one in San Diego, a young Muslim woman's purse and car were stolen by one white male and one Hispanic male. While the men allegedly made negative comments about Muslims, it seems car stealing was more their motivation than harassment or intimidation—which is obviously ******, but not necessarily a Trump-inspired act of bigotry.

And an alleged incident of a gay man named Chris Ball getting beaten up by Trump supporters in Santa Monica on election night seems to have not happened the way it was initially recounted, if the incident even happened at all. The Santa Monica Police Department posted a message to Facebook Thursday saying that neither the department nor city officials had "received any information indicating this crime occurred in the City of Santa Monica" and "a check of local hospitals revealed there was no victim of any such incident admitted or treated."

Other instances of "Trump inspired" violence and vandalism have also turned out to be hoaxes or misinterpretations. An alleged Ku Klux Klan rally in honor of Trump's victory turned out to be an old photo of conservatives carrying U.S., Gadsden, and Christian flags that were billowing out in a manner mistaken in a grainy photo for Klan robes. There were no Southern Illinois University students posting blackface selfies to social media after Trump's win.

A Nazi flag that went up over a home in San Francisco Wednesday wasn't a show of support for anti-Jewish sentiment but "a comment on our new president-elect," according to the anti-Trump resident who put it up. "I am hoping people get that this is a political statement, and that I'm not a Nazi supporter."
Linky to the rest
__________________
Kanye for president!
Eddie Dane is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:54 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.