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Tags donald trump , US-North Korea relations

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Old 11th April 2017, 10:12 PM   #81
Tony Stark
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
Uh...

He had his ex girlfriend and a bunch of pop singers executed for violating pornography laws:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ing-squad.html

Executed his education minister for not sitting properly:

https://www.theatlantic.com/news/arc...-korea/498149/

Executions are evidently a constant.

Let's not forget his dad invented the cheeseburger. He wanted to raise giant rabbits to end the famine, so he bought 6 from a seller. Before the seller could get to NK to teach them how to breed the rabbits, Jong-il had eaten all 6 of them.

Jong-un jailed an official for not sufficiently grieving at his father's funeral.

He expresses all the classic murderous paranoia of the worst dictators. I mean, what are you looking for?

Hell, thinking it's a good idea to antagonize the most powerful military in the history of the planet is pretty nuts. He's just relying on the (previously safe) bet that we care more about lives in South Korea than we're interested in shutting him up.
I would say executing people to help consolidate power is perfectly rational if keeping power is your main concern.
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Old 12th April 2017, 04:37 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
This is the time of year where North Korea does its annual provocation.
Yes, and the rational response is sending them some rice and kicking the can down the road.

It's probably best to wait until the NK's rise up and hang the Kims.

However, Kim's nuclear brinkmanship is concerning. There is a logic to hasten his demise before he has a nuclear rocket that can reach the US.

I think Kim might have been better off holding SK hostage with his artillery.

The way he's going, even China might be getting sick of his ****.
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Old 12th April 2017, 05:00 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Back when his father, worlds best golfer, was still alive.
I think he meant in the US.
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Old 12th April 2017, 05:08 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
I would say executing people to help consolidate power is perfectly rational if keeping power is your main concern.
The pop starts were about to lead a coup?

I think it's fair to call Stalin a madman. His paranoia was legendary. He slaughtered millions of people in a BELIEF that they would seize power from him.

The North Korean Dynasty exhibits those same traits. I would call folks like that "Madmen," but if you have a different term, fine. The fundamental point is that their decision making process is going to be a bit perverse.
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Old 12th April 2017, 05:18 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
The pop starts were about to lead a coup?
Pop Tarts were going to grab power in Korea?
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Old 12th April 2017, 05:43 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
The pop starts were about to lead a coup?

I think it's fair to call Stalin a madman. His paranoia was legendary. He slaughtered millions of people in a BELIEF that they would seize power from him.

The North Korean Dynasty exhibits those same traits. I would call folks like that "Madmen," but if you have a different term, fine. The fundamental point is that their decision making process is going to be a bit perverse.
I'm not sure if there is any way for us to know the truth about the pop star story given the nature of North Korea.

Anyway, Stalin held on to power until he died a natural death. So did Kim Jong Il and Kim Il Sung. Kim Jong Un is trying to do the same thing. I don't think that trying to do this by whatever means necessary is irrational, especially if it works. Just evil.
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Old 12th April 2017, 08:52 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Anyone, if they make noise that they might use their nukes.
Does this apply to any Nuclear Power who suggests that using nukes is acceptable?
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Old 12th April 2017, 08:57 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
I'm not sure if there is any way for us to know the truth about the pop star story given the nature of North Korea.

Anyway, Stalin held on to power until he died a natural death. So did Kim Jong Il and Kim Il Sung. Kim Jong Un is trying to do the same thing. I don't think that trying to do this by whatever means necessary is irrational, especially if it works. Just evil.
I think our disagreement is just semantic. By "Madman" I don't mean a guy that sees fairies and hurls his own poo around a padded room. I mean that he exhibits the cruel paranoia of classic strong men. That may keep him in power, but world history is replete with these sorts of folks vastly overestimating their power and launching ill-advised military missions.

I do think it's entirely possible that North Korea believes it has a path to gobbling up South Korea. These sorts of strong men typically have a vastly over inflated notion of their own power and the strength of their military.

I also doubt Kin Jong-un receives reasoned, well-researched intelligence about his potential adversaries. My guess is that the official telling Jong-un, "Yeah, bro, if we attack South Korea we are going to get stomped into dust," would find himself next to a couple of pop stars in a shallow grave.

So, even if you think he has a rational self interest and is reasonable gifted at consolidating his rule in North Korea, he can still be making ridiculous decisions based on bad information.
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Old 12th April 2017, 08:59 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Pop Tarts were going to grab power in Korea?
Well, like the cheeseburger, they may have been invented by the Jongs...
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Old 12th April 2017, 09:02 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
Well, like the cheeseburger, they may have been invented by the Jongs...
Didn't they create the earth or something?
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Old 12th April 2017, 09:05 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Didn't they create the earth or something?
I do know that the birth of Kim Jong-il was heralded by a talking ice-berg:
Quote:
North Korean schools teach children that Jong-il's birth was "supernatural." He was born in a log cabin inside a secret base on the sacred Mt. Paekdu, the story goes, and his arrival was accompanied by the apparition of a new star. The seasons then spontaneously changed from winter to spring, and a double-rainbow appeared, followed by a talking iceberg. (Western accounts say he was born in a guerrilla camp in Russia.)
http://gawker.com/5869210/giant-rabb...of-kim-jong-il
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Old 12th April 2017, 09:07 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
I do know that the birth of Kim Jong-il was heralded by a talking ice-berg:

http://gawker.com/5869210/giant-rabb...of-kim-jong-il
I'd say that it's insane that people believe nonsense like this but then plenty of Christians believe in talking whales and donkeys, so yeah.
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Old 12th April 2017, 09:11 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I'd say that it's insane that people believe nonsense like this but then plenty of Christians believe in talking whales and donkeys, so yeah.
Indeed.

There is something about the specific stories the North Koreans tell that I find infinitely amusing, though. Like, if you wanted people to think you were a demi-god, wouldn't you claim that you invented computers not ... the cheeseburger?

It would be a deeply entertaining place if wasn't for all those pesky human rights violations.
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Old 12th April 2017, 09:13 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
Indeed.

There is something about the specific stories the North Koreans tell that I find infinitely amusing, though. Like, if you wanted people to think you were a demi-god, wouldn't you claim that you invented computers not ... the cheeseburger?
And wouldn't you prefer to claim that you were a science genius rather than say you always made holes-in-one at golf?

Quote:
It would be a deeply entertaining place if wasn't for all those pesky human rights violations.
The two aren't mutually-exclusive. Un's hair is both entertaining and a human rights violation.
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Old 12th April 2017, 09:25 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
And wouldn't you prefer to claim that you were a science genius rather than say you always made holes-in-one at golf?



The two aren't mutually-exclusive. Un's hair is both entertaining and a human rights violation.
I am not sure that testing nerve agents on families is particularly entertaining.
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Old 12th April 2017, 09:28 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I am not sure that testing nerve agents on families is particularly entertaining.
I see you've never worked with Smilex gas.
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Old 14th April 2017, 03:57 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I'd say that it's insane that people believe nonsense like this but then plenty of Christians believe in talking whales and donkeys, so yeah.
I'll believe anything that stops me from being starved to death in a uranium mine.
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Old 14th April 2017, 03:58 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I am not sure that testing nerve agents on families is particularly entertaining.
You're just not the target demographic. Stop hating on other people's entertainment.
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Old 14th April 2017, 04:01 AM   #99
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Let's hope the NK generals freak out so badly by Trump's war drums that they send Un's head in a box to Washington to appease the US.

But even if that happens, Trump will be emboldened and just move on to the next hornet's nest to kick.
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Old 14th April 2017, 02:36 PM   #100
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Trump just announced a strategy of North Korea of 'Maximum Pressure and Engagement" which sounds a lot like Obama's strategy of dealing with NK, just with more macho rhetoric.
The more things change...
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Old 8th August 2017, 04:06 PM   #101
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So, Trump has now threatened North Korea with "fire and fury like the world has never seen" while NK says it has a missile capable warhead and plans to fire a missile at Gaum if the US doesn't stop provoking them.

With dumb and insane in charge, is this rhetoric likely to end peacefully, or are we about to spiral out of control?
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Old 8th August 2017, 04:32 PM   #102
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Watching Trump and Kim is like watching two insane narcissistic, megalomaniac bad guys out of one of the older James Bond movies.

Neither of which as an outsider I draw a huge amount of sympathy for
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Old 8th August 2017, 05:26 PM   #103
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Failing to deal effectively with NK in the past has lead us here. The Kims have been in charge for 3 generations now and the human rights violations and rhetoric have just gone up and up. Now we really can't ignore it anymore. So what are the real alternatives?

And what's this I heard about Pop Tarts giving power to NK?
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Old 8th August 2017, 05:30 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Now we really can't ignore it anymore.
May I ask why?

Considering even the most gung ho of people must realise the propaganda crap from NK are mostly willy waving to save face.

The US have ignored plenty of other corrupt, despicable regimes
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Old 8th August 2017, 05:35 PM   #105
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Can you imagine if they had a resource we wanted? They'd be the 51st state by now.
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Old 8th August 2017, 05:38 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
May I ask why?

Considering even the most gung ho of people must realise the propaganda crap from NK are mostly willy waving to save face.

The US have ignored plenty of other corrupt, despicable regimes
If the Post report is true, they are very close to having the capability to do some real damage -if they aren't there already. Continuing to ignore their bluster only emboldens them to continue on their course.
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Old 8th August 2017, 05:52 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
If the Post report is true, they are very close to having the capability to do some real damage -if they aren't there already. Continuing to ignore their bluster only emboldens them to continue on their course.
Some nutter doing things like the latest threatening ""fire and fury like the world has never seen." isn't ignoring their bluster

In the case of the other nutter Kim it is just encouraging more willy waving
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Old 8th August 2017, 06:00 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Watching Trump and Kim is like watching two insane narcissistic, megalomaniac bad guys out of one of the older James Bond movies.

Neither of which as an outsider I draw a huge amount of sympathy for
Come on, that's a silly thing to say.

Bond is a very cool guy!
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Old 8th August 2017, 06:10 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7674781.html

Not sure how dangerous this move is by Trump in sending a strike fleet to the Korean Perpendicular, but it seems to have a number of people in the know rather worried about how North Korea will react.
This is very dangerous. Most administrations find ways to get North Korea to understand that what we want most is to ignore them. Trump is bucking that trend. Strategic Patience was another way of saying, "if you shut up, we will leave you off of our list of countries to do". It's worked until now.
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Old 8th August 2017, 06:34 PM   #110
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Trump is desperate about his Russian scandals. He might start a war just to try keeping power.
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Old 8th August 2017, 07:11 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Trump is desperate about his Russian scandals. He might start a war just to try keeping power.
Will that even work?
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Old 8th August 2017, 07:47 PM   #112
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Let's check back in a week to see how many of you were able to predict the future.

Betting the under.
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Old 8th August 2017, 07:52 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Will that even work?
That depends on the outcome of any war, if it happens.
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Old 8th August 2017, 08:01 PM   #114
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"If we get Gorsuch and avoid nuclear war, a lot of us will count this as a win" The fact that the Republican party was so craven to pretend they weren't supporting an unstable, slow witted, dementia added racist for norm breaking partisan gain really sucks for everyone else on the planet.
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Old 8th August 2017, 08:04 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
Let's check back in a week to see how many of you were able to predict the future.

Betting the under.
Indeed.

When the bestest fire and fury like the world has never seen ever, is over with.....the greatest fire and fury like the world has never seen!!!
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Old 8th August 2017, 09:09 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
Let's check back in a week to see how many of you were able to predict the future.

Betting the under.
Next week? You sure of that?
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Old 8th August 2017, 09:10 PM   #117
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Will Trump be riding on a horse?
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Old 8th August 2017, 09:38 PM   #118
The Great Zaganza
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This is nuts: there is simply no way NK can miniaturize a nuke and build ICBMs without foreign support, be it Russia or the Khan network or both, this quickly.
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Old 8th August 2017, 09:47 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Indeed.

When the bestest fire and fury like the world has never seen ever, is over with.....the greatest fire and fury like the world has never seen!!!
I predict additional bluster.
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Old 8th August 2017, 10:41 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
This is nuts: there is simply no way NK can miniaturize a nuke and build ICBMs without foreign support, be it Russia or the Khan network or both, this quickly.
Or China.

I think North Korea was going to reignite the war just as soon as they had a nuke to do it with. I doubt there's been a president in US history who could have stopped them. MacArthur, maybe.
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