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Tags donald trump , US-North Korea relations

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Old 11th August 2017, 08:18 AM   #281
The Don
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Still, I don't think a missile test would be enough to for the U.S. military to advise Trump to go to war, I don't think SK or Japan would consider it strong enough provocation either. That said, I've no idea how Trump himself or his closest advisors would react.
That's the problem. Trump could wake up in the middle of the night, have an unsatisfactory bowel movement due to too much meat and not enough fibre and unilaterally decide on a nuclear strike against Pyongyang due to something he half-remembered seeing on Fox & Friends - and there'd be nothing anyone could do about it.

The U.S. military could be absolutely appalled by his decision but they would be duty bound to carry it out and IMO President Trump is impulsive and stupid enough to make such an order.


edited to add....

For the first time since the very early 1980's, I really think there is a significant risk of nuclear war and if it's a preemptive nuclear strike against North Korea then China may feel obliged to get involved on the side of North Korea - then we have global nuclear war....

Last edited by The Don; 11th August 2017 at 08:20 AM.
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Old 11th August 2017, 08:38 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
That's the problem. Trump could wake up in the middle of the night, have an unsatisfactory bowel movement due to too much meat and not enough fibre and unilaterally decide on a nuclear strike against Pyongyang due to something he half-remembered seeing on Fox & Friends - and there'd be nothing anyone could do about it.

The U.S. military could be absolutely appalled by his decision but they would be duty bound to carry it out and IMO President Trump is impulsive and stupid enough to make such an order.


edited to add....

For the first time since the very early 1980's, I really think there is a significant risk of nuclear war and if it's a preemptive nuclear strike against North Korea then China may feel obliged to get involved on the side of North Korea - then we have global nuclear war....
What is a legally given order? That is the question. Give it some thought and if you like we can debate it.
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Old 11th August 2017, 08:40 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Still, I don't think a missile test would be enough to for the U.S. military to advise Trump to go to war, I don't think SK or Japan would consider it strong enough provocation either. That said, I've no idea how Trump himself or his closest advisors would react.
They may hit Guam accidentally.
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Old 11th August 2017, 08:42 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by Modified View Post
They may hit Guam accidentally.
There are ways to avoid that for the NK.
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Old 11th August 2017, 08:57 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
if it's a preemptive nuclear strike against North Korea then China may feel obliged to get involved on the side of North Korea - then we have global nuclear war....
While it's a serious concern... would China really commit suicide on behalf of its embarrassing erstwhile pseudo-puppet?
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Old 11th August 2017, 09:01 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
While it's a serious concern... would China really commit suicide on behalf of its embarrassing erstwhile pseudo-puppet?
If there's already a fallout cloud heading towards them from the U.S. attack on Pyongyang, they may feel obliged to.

Indeed if President Trump is so reckless to carry out a preemptive nuclear strike*, can any country feel safe ?


* - this assumes that it is entirely preemptive, i.e. North Korea has not fired missiles at Guam or carried out conventional attacks, just that President Trump has decided one morning that Pyongyang needs nuking....
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Old 11th August 2017, 09:06 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
Do you have a link to those?
Sorry, the first rule of Nuclear Club is we don't talk about Nuclear Club.
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Old 11th August 2017, 09:17 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
That's the problem. Trump could wake up in the middle of the night, have an unsatisfactory bowel movement due to too much meat and not enough fibre and unilaterally decide on a nuclear strike against Pyongyang due to something he half-remembered seeing on Fox & Friends - and there'd be nothing anyone could do about it.

The U.S. military could be absolutely appalled by his decision but they would be duty bound to carry it out and IMO President Trump is impulsive and stupid enough to make such an order.


edited to add....

For the first time since the very early 1980's, I really think there is a significant risk of nuclear war and if it's a preemptive nuclear strike against North Korea then China may feel obliged to get involved on the side of North Korea - then we have global nuclear war....
I feel the same way.

I was born in 74, so I was just under 10 years old during Reagan's first term. He had this cowboy swagger and a "Come at us!" attitude towards the Russians.

And, I grew up in Bethpage on Long Island. Grumman's headquarters was there. Daily reconnaissance flights took off from an airstrip about half a mile from my house. Russia had a bomb with my town's name on it. (Not to mention NYC being only 25 miles away.)

So, with Reagan telling the Russians to "Bring it on" and logic telling me a Russian bomb had the name, "Bethpage" written on it, I was scared.

I feel like I did when I was 8 years old.
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Old 11th August 2017, 09:18 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
What part of your position have I misrepresented?
Pretty much everything, obviously.

Quote:
Given how happy you are to call people far right just for nog supporting Russian aggression in Ukraine, I also think that you should examine your own posts before criticising others.
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Old 11th August 2017, 09:43 AM   #290
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Gozer the Gozerian: Sub-creatures. Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volgus Zildrohar, the Traveler has come. Choose and perish.
Americans: What do you mean, choose? We don't understand.
Gozer the Gozerian: Choose. Choose the form of the Destructor.
Anderson Cooper Oh, I get it! I get it. Oh! Very cute. [to the others] "Whatever we think of." If we think of J. Edgar Hoover, J. Edgar Hoover will appear and destroy us, okay? So empty your heads. Empty your heads. Don't think of anything. We've only got one shot at this.
Gozer the Gozerian: The choice is made.
Americans: Whoa! Hold on! Whoa!
Gozer the Gozerian: The Traveler has come.
Anderson Cooper: Nobody "choosed" anything! [turns to Chief Justice Roberts] Did you choose anything?
Chief Justice Roberts: No.
Anderson Cooper: [to Jim Acosta] Did you?
Jim Acotsa: My mind is totally blank.
Chief Justice Roberts: I didn't choose anything! [All three slowly turn to confront Sean Hannity]
Sean Hannity: I couldn't help it. It just popped in there.
Anderson Cooper: [sternly] What? What just popped in there?
Sean Hannity: I-- I-I tried to think--
Jim Acosta: LOOK! [They all look over one side of the roof]





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Old 11th August 2017, 10:22 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Interesting and worrying all at the same time.

As you said, 30k dead in the first day, 300k-400k dead in the first week, up to 2 million in three weeks - then the North might use nuclear weapons.

......and then the refugee crisis.
That's problem with playing chicken with an opponent that has nothing to lose regardless of the outcome.
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Old 11th August 2017, 10:26 AM   #292
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Since none of you are any good at Tarot cards, I thought I would use them to ask questions.

1. Will there be significant conflict between the US and NK in the next six months? - Yes.

2. Will it escalate to include China? - No.

3. Will a nuke be used? - Yes.

4. In which month? - September 2017

5. Who will use the nuke first? - USA.

Okay that is what the cards say. No interpretation needed. Definite answers.

My take - Just using my logic and not anything else.

A. NK is a threat that has grown quicker than expected.
B. Ignoring it will not make it go away.
C. Conventional war is in NK's favor.
D. Trump does not believe in going in small.
E. A nuclear strike will tell NK and the world that the US means business.
F. China says it will not tolerate a first US strike, but it will not risk war with Trump.
G. If NK does not surrender, more nukes may be threatened/used.

Some other thoughts.
China is okay with NK taking on the US. It may drain the USA and get rid of the NK & SK problem. They may refuse to strike the US in return for a withdrawal of US forces from the region. The US gains and so does China. Trump looks good. The problem is solved for both China and the US. Trump can reduce military spending while looking strong.
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Old 11th August 2017, 10:35 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Since none of you are any good at Tarot cards, I thought I would use them to ask questions.

1. Will there be significant conflict between the US and NK in the next six months? - Yes.

2. Will it escalate to include China? - No.

3. Will a nuke be used? - Yes.

4. In which month? - September 2017

5. Who will use the nuke first? - USA.

Okay that is what the cards say. No interpretation needed. Definite answers.

My take - Just using my logic and not anything else.

A. NK is a threat that has grown quicker than expected.
B. Ignoring it will not make it go away.
C. Conventional war is in NK's favor.
D. Trump does not believe in going in small.
E. A nuclear strike will tell NK and the world that the US means business.
F. China says it will not tolerate a first US strike, but it will not risk war with Trump.
G. If NK does not surrender, more nukes may be threatened/used.

Some other thoughts.
China is okay with NK taking on the US. It may drain the USA and get rid of the NK & SK problem. They may refuse to strike the US in return for a withdrawal of US forces from the region. The US gains and so does China. Trump looks good. The problem is solved for both China and the US. Trump can reduce military spending while looking strong.
Tarot Cards??????

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Old 11th August 2017, 10:36 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Tarot Cards??????


Can you do better to the five questions?

Adder: I think the bomb or bombs will be dropped in the center of the country to avoid civilian casualties and to reduce radioactive fallout for China and South Korea. My personal opinion.
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Old 11th August 2017, 10:41 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Since none of you are any good at Tarot cards, I thought I would use them to ask questions.
Since you're obviously terrible at reading entrails, I thought I would use them to check your answers.

1. Will there be significant conflict between the US and NK in the next six months? - No.

Damn. That cancels out everything you said. Ok, let's try tea leaves:

1. Will there be significant conflict between the US and NK in the next six months? - No.

Ok, no joy. Let me try my magic eight ball:

1. Will there be significant conflict between the US and NK in the next six months? - Doubtful.

A bit more encouraging. Let's check my horoscope:

1. Will there be significant conflict between the US and NK in the next six months? - No.

Dammit! That's not helping. Screw it. I'm using my lucky dice instead:

1. Will there be significant conflict between the US and NK in the next six months? - 2D6+3 damage = 9.

9 is obviously the number of armageddon, so I concur with your conclusion. Stupid tea leaves.
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Old 11th August 2017, 10:55 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Since you're obviously terrible at reading entrails, I thought I would use them to check your answers.

1. Will there be significant conflict between the US and NK in the next six months? - No.

Damn. That cancels out everything you said. Ok, let's try tea leaves:

1. Will there be significant conflict between the US and NK in the next six months? - No.

Ok, no joy. Let me try my magic eight ball:

1. Will there be significant conflict between the US and NK in the next six months? - Doubtful.

A bit more encouraging. Let's check my horoscope:

1. Will there be significant conflict between the US and NK in the next six months? - No.

Dammit! That's not helping. Screw it. I'm using my lucky dice instead:

1. Will there be significant conflict between the US and NK in the next six months? - 2D6+3 damage = 9.

9 is obviously the number of armageddon, so I concur with your conclusion. Stupid tea leaves.
I have to commend PartSkeptic. Most fortunetellers hedge their bets. He gave a clear prediction about the near future and which is certainly not a foregone conclusion.

The U.S. will launch a preemptive nuclear strike at North Korea next month and China will not intervene.

Of course, that commendation may be withdrawn if the prediction fails to pass and PartSkeptic continues to claim Tarot is reliable. But what are the odds?
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Old 11th August 2017, 10:59 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Of course, that commendation may be withdrawn if the prediction fails to pass and PartSkeptic continues to claim Tarot is reliable. But what are the odds?
I would say that we're either going to get a list of excuses or, more likely, that PartSkeptic will simply not return to this thread.
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Old 11th August 2017, 11:06 AM   #299
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I would say that we're either going to get a list of excuses or, more likely, that PartSkeptic will simply not return to this thread.
You are not good at this. What possibility have you left out?
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Old 11th August 2017, 11:07 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by Tommy Jeppesen View Post
You are not good at this. What possibility have you left out?
Well I didn't include the crazy ones, like tarot actually working.
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Old 11th August 2017, 11:08 AM   #301
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Well I didn't include the crazy ones, like tarot actually working.
Or pure luck.
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Old 11th August 2017, 11:17 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Since none of you are any good at Tarot cards, I thought I would use them to ask questions.

1. Will there be significant conflict between the US and NK in the next six months? - Yes.

2. Will it escalate to include China? - No.

3. Will a nuke be used? - Yes.

4. In which month? - September 2017

5. Who will use the nuke first? - USA.

Okay that is what the cards say. No interpretation needed. Definite answers.
If you win the million dollars, do you want it in radioactive $5 dollar or radioactive $20 dollar bills?
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Old 11th August 2017, 11:26 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
NK does something along this line every time the U.S. gets a new president. Every time, without fail. They only seem to recognize any agreement as being with the president who is in office at the time the agreement is negotiated. New President = New Negotiations, every time. They are actually very consistent about that.

The catch is that with their improving missile and nuke tech, the stakes get higher every time. And now with our current deeply inconsistent, vindictive, and spontaneous president, we are indeed in very dangerous times.
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Old 11th August 2017, 11:31 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Can you do better to the five questions?

Adder: I think the bomb or bombs will be dropped in the center of the country to avoid civilian casualties and to reduce radioactive fallout for China and South Korea. My personal opinion.

I can. I've got a magic 8-ball.
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Old 11th August 2017, 11:38 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
I can. I've got a magic 8-ball.
Way ahead of you.
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Old 11th August 2017, 11:48 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I've been wondering about this too. As far as I know such a missle launch by North Korea would be legal. But I suspect intercepting them would not. So then what happens?
What does legality have to do with anything? What book of statutes constrains Kim in any way? And if he isn't acknowledging anything like international law or rules for war, why should anyone else?

Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
And if, as is likely, an attempt at intercepting them fails, allowing at least some of the missles through, that would undermine any ability of the USA to rely on its as of yet theoretical anti-missle defenses, leaving us notably weaker in our ability to reassure our allies and our ability to raise uncertainties in North Korea as to the realiability of their nuclear threat.
I like to think China wouldn't let things get this far. And if I were a U.S. ally, I would not be relying on the U.S. overly much. Trump's generals see the need for staunch alliances but I'm not sure Trump himself does. America First, America Only, America with oceans between itself and any current credible threats.

I have no idea of the technical capabilities with shooting missiles down - but I would not underestimate the ability to do so. We've sent rockets 2 billion miles, looping around other planets for a gravity assist, sending probes to satellites of Saturn, allowing orbits to decay then stepping on the gas at just the right time.

Wish we could just drone-strike Kim's ass, it's a big enough target. I don't know if that would help, though.
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Old 11th August 2017, 11:50 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I didn't want to be accused of hyperbole.

In another thread someone (McHrozni ?) was saying that the risk to South Korea from the North is negligible because all the North Korean artillery which was supposed to be trained on Seoul could be taken out in a few minutes through surgical strikes.

Personally I think that's optimistic but I lack the expertise to counter the argument effectively.



Though at least in the case of North Korea, the weapons of mass destruction likely exist and the leader of North Korea is at least engaging in threatening rhetoric and the North Korean military could conceivably represent a threat to the U.S. and/or its territories overseas.
McHrozni is wrong. Dead wrong. The artillery is buried deep in a mountain with blast proof doors protecting each gun. Surgical strikes, no.
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Old 11th August 2017, 11:52 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Trump projecting.
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Old 11th August 2017, 11:54 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Interesting and worrying all at the same time.

As you said, 30k dead in the first day, 300k-400k dead in the first week, up to 2 million in three weeks - then the North might use nuclear weapons.

......and then the refugee crisis.
Collapse of the economy in SK. knock on effect with the global economy.
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Old 11th August 2017, 11:55 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
For the first time since the very early 1980's, I really think there is a significant risk of nuclear war and if it's a preemptive nuclear strike against North Korea then China may feel obliged to get involved on the side of North Korea - then we have global nuclear war....
Obligated? I'm not so sure. China seems pretty pragmatic. It could strategically decide to become a U.S. adversary, but I don't think loyalty would be in the picture.

This week's Economist cover: A mushroom cloud with the faces of Kim and Trump emerging from it and the words "It could happen". Yikes.

Would a pre-emptive strike have to be nuclear? And does that make any difference?
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Old 11th August 2017, 12:01 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by C_Felix View Post
I'm assuming that any missiles shot over Japan and have a trajectory towards Guam (or Hawai'i..etc..) will be intercepted by some form of Patriot missile, laser beam, or who knows what these days.
Apparently Guam has THAAD (Terminal High Altitude Air Defense) batteries, so they have the potential capability of shooting them down. As the article (http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/10/asia/n...uam/index.html) says, however:

Quote:
Alternatively, United States destroyers equipped with Aegis ballistic missile defenses could take down a missile at an even longer range, before it re-enters the Earth's atmosphere.

"The US might decide to put an Aegis system much closer to Guam to have two levels of defense, but that's a presidential decision," he said.
I wonder if there is any report of an AEGIS-class ship(s) heading toward Guam?

Quote:
If that happens, is that an act of war?
I'm (also) assuming NK will consider the shooting down of one of its missiles an act of war.
And that, Good Sir, is the right question. But the possible answers are many and varied right now.
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Old 11th August 2017, 12:10 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
That's problem with playing chicken with an opponent that has nothing to lose regardless of the outcome.
He has his gout-inducing life of luxury to lose.
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Old 11th August 2017, 05:15 PM   #313
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At the time when the US government needs to be sending out a clear coherent message Trump seems to have gotten into a fight with his own cabinet and the USA's allies. His ego demands that he tops Kim Jong Un's rhetoric at every turn. It's like a bad remake of Whoops Apocalypse.
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Old 11th August 2017, 06:01 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
I think Kim might have been better off holding SK hostage with his artillery.

The way he's going, even China might be getting sick of his ****.
He's still doing that. And the Chinese are at best amused by all this, and at worse egging him on via back channel.
Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I just hope Trump vetted that language with his generals.
Why would he? He says what's on his mind.

Originally Posted by Darat View Post
It is not in China's interest to have a nuclear capable country on its borders.
Their actions to date, absent a recent reduction in coal imports from NK, do not agree with your assessment (though I wish they'd do more to make their position align with your sentiment).
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I think that Guam is part of the United States (and Korea and Okinawa are not) is the reason; Kim wanted to directly threaten the United States,and his missiles don't have the range....yet....to hit Hawaii or the Continential US.
Yeah.
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Can't the senior people in the US govt just tell Trump not to act like such a prick for a few weeks and let it all tone down a bit?
He doesn't listen to them. Indeed, he doesn't do listening all that well in general.
Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
China says if NK attacks the USA first it will sit this war out. Pulls the wind out of Kims' sails a bit.
I don't think it changes anything, but I'll allow that you may be right.
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
That's the problem. Trump could wake up in the middle of the night, have an unsatisfactory bowel movement due to too much meat and not enough fibre and unilaterally decide on a nuclear strike against Pyongyang due to something he half-remembered seeing on Fox & Friends - and there'd be nothing anyone could do about it.
No. In a movie, yes. IRL? I don't find your analysis credible.
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
For the first time since the very early 1980's, I really think there is a significant risk of nuclear war and if it's a preemptive nuclear strike against North Korea then China may feel obliged to get involved on the side of North Korea - then we have global nuclear war....
Now you are making stuff up. As I understand all of the rhetoric, the "fire and fury" noise is "if you shoot at our people" not "pre emptive strike" rhetoric. Where are you getting "preemptive strike" from any official source? (Talking heads on the news are not an official source).
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Indeed if President Trump is so reckless to carry out a preemptive nuclear strike*, can any country feel safe ?
Once again, where are you getting that from? Your fevered imagination?

Originally Posted by crescent View Post
NK does something along this line every time the U.S. gets a new president. Every time, without fail. They only seem to recognize any agreement as being with the president who is in office at the time the agreement is negotiated. New President = New Negotiations, every time. They are actually very consistent about that.

The catch is that with their improving missile and nuke tech, the stakes get higher every time. And now with our current deeply inconsistent, vindictive, and spontaneous president, we are indeed in very dangerous times.
At least someone has written something sensible. Glad to see that you, unlike most of the contributors to this thread, have been paying attention.

This noise will stop if and when the Chinese send a private message to Kim and let him know that it will stop or they will make him wish he had.

Until then, he'll continue to do his thing.
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Old 11th August 2017, 07:06 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
<snip>

No. In a movie, yes. IRL? I don't find your analysis credible.
Now you are making stuff up. As I understand all of the rhetoric, the "fire and fury" noise is "if you shoot at our people" not "pre emptive strike" rhetoric. Where are you getting "preemptive strike" from any official source? (Talking heads on the news are not an official source).
Once again, where are you getting that from? Your fevered imagination?

<snip>

Trump's words;
"North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States. They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen... he has been very threatening beyond a normal state. They will be met with fire, fury and frankly power the likes of which this world has never seen ..."

Not sure how you manage to translate "... best not make any more threats ..." into "if you shoot at our people".

Obviously, translating TrumpSpeak is a more advanced skill than I had previously imagined.

Or has making threats become the new version of a 'first strike'?
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Old 11th August 2017, 07:42 PM   #316
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Article has scary scenarios.

Old people let Trump loose, to control dangerous liberalism:
"It was overwhelmingly old people who handed Trump the power to end all life on the planet, against the overwhelming wishes of people who will inherit it from them. Young people don’t simply regard Trump as a less-than-ideal steward of their futures, but as a poison forced upon them by elders who have disclaimed any responsibility for bequeathing their offspring a bright and kind and healthy civic life. "
https://newrepublic.com/article/1443...e-madman-power

It backfired.
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Old 11th August 2017, 08:03 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Trump's words;
"North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States. They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen... he has been very threatening beyond a normal state. They will be met with fire, fury and frankly power the likes of which this world has never seen ..."

Not sure how you manage to translate "... best not make any more threats ..." into "if you shoot at our people".

Obviously, translating TrumpSpeak is a more advanced skill than I had previously imagined.

Or has making threats become the new version of a 'first strike'?

And a quote from the commander-in-ept
Quote:
“And I will tell you this: If North Korea does anything in terms of even thinking about attack of anybody that we love or we represent or our allies or us, they can be very, very nervous. I’ll tell you why. And they should be very nervous. Because things will happen to them like they never thought possible, OK? He’s been pushing the world around for a long time.”
Seems to me NK has already thought about it.
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Old 11th August 2017, 08:50 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by C_Felix View Post
And a quote from the commander-in-ept


Seems to me NK has already thought about it.
I'm pretty sure it's only referring to itself. "Someone we love?" Someone we "represent?" With whom we are "allies?" Yeah, it's only referring to itself and maybe to its eldest female spawn.
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Old 11th August 2017, 10:43 PM   #319
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The results of the Tarot cards were a surprise to me. I did not expect that the US would do a first nuke strike and not so soon.

But it makes sense. The Tarot may be wrong, and it will be very clear if they are wrong, but they make good points.

Trump is staking his reputation on removing the NK nuclear threat. That means that words and rhetoric are only so he can say afterwards that when he makes a threat he means it.

He needs to provoke NK to make a threat that he can use it as an excuse to strike. His power to do a nuclear strike is limited to self-defense. He will stretch the point since they have already posed a threat. The generals are likely to agree. He does not need congress.

The NK threat will only be removed if NK does total surrender. To stop the bombardment of Seoul the surrender must be quick and total. Like Japan.

The timing needs to be sooner rather than later. Get it over with. The longer Trump waits the more he risks leaks and media interference.

China says they will not let the US strike first. But I think that is limited to a conventional war. How do they defend NK against incoming nukes? And do they want to strike the US with nukes? No.

Surrender. Let China have the north and SK the south. Maybe.

Flood of refugees into China. China can use military force to stop refugees by considering them invaders. They do not have a media to account to, nor an opposition party, and the rest of the world really could not care. Let the media and forums scream.

A key influence to consider is that of Israel. They have a big influence on foreign policy. They would want a nuclear strike. It would send a message to Iran, and set a precedent in order to do their own pre-emptive nuclear strike if necessary.

If the cards are right, I will be told that the conclusion was obvious, and that I was the one who rigged the cards to get a correct answer. Denial again.
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Old 11th August 2017, 10:52 PM   #320
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No General will support a nuclear strike against NK: it makes no military sense: bunker-busters are much more likely to hit critical sites.
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