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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 4th July 2017, 03:54 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by TofuFighter View Post
"My country, right or wrong" is a questionable position to take.
I'm pretty sure that's not what's being said.

Just as the MP who represents my constituency is my MP whether I voted for him or not, whoever gets elected POTUS is the POTUS for every American whether they voted for him or not. I don't like my MP and would certainly never vote for him, but he is still currently my representative in Parliament.
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Old 4th July 2017, 04:03 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Trump is many things, but dumb isn't among them. He knows exactly what his supporters care about and how to present it in a way it'll make them adore him even more.
Completely wrong. When he says or does things his base likes, it's NOT because he's thought through the politics of his base. It's him acting solely on impulse; he doesn't give a **** about what his supporters care about. He doesn't have a political analysis bone in his body. You give him WAY too much credit.

ETA: Darat stole my thunder.

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Old 4th July 2017, 04:58 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
"Government is as good as the people"

If people have various levels of good, you are making a statement that there is some objective good.
Do you mean "absolute"? The existence of various levels of a thing doesn't have anything to do with it being objective or not. All the levels might all be objective, but at most one of them, or perhaps none of them at all, would be absolute.
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Old 4th July 2017, 05:15 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
That's not what will kill him because his support is not about policy. I think only two things have the potential to make GOPers turn on him:

1) a military blunder. Americans killed for no reason. We get dragged back into the Middle East where nobody wants to go.

2) A USA terror attack. And Trump is as effective as you're-doing-a-heckova-job-Brownie was during Katrina.
1. Entirely possible, but a lot of Republicans thought attacking Syria was somehow a much better idea with Trump than they did with Obama. They might give him more leeway on future military adventures as well.

2. I actually think he'd use something like that to his advantage. I don't mean in a CT "let it happen" way, but if a major terrorist attack occurred I think he'd use it to justify the tighter immigration controls that lots of Republicans really want.
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Old 4th July 2017, 05:24 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by TofuFighter View Post
"My country, right or wrong" is a questionable position to take.
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I'm pretty sure that's not what's being said.

Just as the MP who represents my constituency is my MP whether I voted for him or not, whoever gets elected POTUS is the POTUS for every American whether they voted for him or not. I don't like my MP and would certainly never vote for him, but he is still currently my representative in Parliament.
I agree with this interpretation.

When I say, "Nyet my President", it's an expression of disapproval. Trump is President. A treasonous, corrupt, inept, childish, hateful, antidemocratic, rotten President, but he is the President until he's removed from office. (Hopefully in the form of FBI agents hauling him, Pence, Bannon, Riebus, Miller, etc. away in handcuffs. With a large side order of Ryan and McConnell, too, please.)
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Old 4th July 2017, 05:24 AM   #166
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Donald Trump tweeting "Does this guy have anything better to do with his life?" about Kim Jong Un launching a missile has to be peak Trump.
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Old 4th July 2017, 05:40 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
That isn't how it works.
I don't support him either. I didn't vote for him.
But he's the POTUS we got, and I support the system, even if I don't always like the results.
He isn't the first one I don't like, and I doubt he'll be the last.
But until I support disregarding that system he's still "our" POTUS as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah, I'm ashamed of my country for electing him, but it's still my country.
Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
I agree with this interpretation.
When I say, "Nyet my President", it's an expression of disapproval. Trump is President. A treasonous, corrupt, inept, childish, hateful, antidemocratic, rotten President, but he is the President until he's removed from office. (Hopefully in the form of FBI agents hauling him, Pence, Bannon, Riebus, Miller, etc. away in handcuffs. With a large side order of Ryan and McConnell, too, please.)
I've included the original post so it's close enough in context.

It may be that both you and Pixel42 have interpreted Quadraginta correctly, and that i have not.
Obviously Trump is the Potus. Quad frames it as 'our' Potus.
"it's still my country and I support the system"

I could never have taken this position during the apartheid era in South Africa. You can probably think of other examples.

I just sometimes think that Americans, as an example, are too nationalistic, and the post i replied to rung that bell slightly for me.
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Old 4th July 2017, 05:41 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
'Trough' might be a more accurate term, but even you don't believe this is it.
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Old 4th July 2017, 05:53 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Running for nomination is an occupation for Republicans: it's not about winning, it's about getting free airtime and attracting the notice of Big Donors. Candidates regularly make good money campaigning even if they never get past 1% votes or so.
So there will be plenty of Republicans pretending to clamor for the nomination, even though none will have a chance if Trump is still around by then and decides to run.
Yup, it will be clown car candidates only if Trump is still north of 60% R support by then.

Better to get a free lock-in on that 60% in your district/state by having him land Air Force One at the local airport, drape his arm around your shoulder and mumble a few sentences about what a great guy you are. The alternative is Twitter tantrums and blackmail via planted stories that will ruin your career.

Unless you're a clown car candidate specially built to spin "any publicity is good publicity" style. Trump's tirades then become fodder for email donation blasts, the campaign spokesman can cast Trump as the entrenched insider trying to squash the plucky savior primary challenger, etc.
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Sure, but those are professional candidates, who never expect to win the nomination, much less the Presidency.

Puppycow was asking about "serious challengers" not serial candidates. I think that if you're a GOP member with serious ambition to become President then if Trump is running in 2020 and he still has 80% approval rating among GOP supporters then I don't think someone who has legitimate ambitions to be President should challenge him in the primaries.
Exactly. Small operations run by a board of people who happen to all run canvassing, media production, and other campaign logistics related companies that will be $50 million in debt after the elections.

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Old 4th July 2017, 07:23 AM   #170
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Even The PDJT doesn't think he stands for all of America, but only his party. He keeps maintaining the distinction between "us" and "them". Look at how often he says "We won the election."
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Old 4th July 2017, 08:04 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Running for nomination is an occupation for Republicans: it's not about winning, it's about getting free airtime and attracting the notice of Big Donors. Candidates regularly make good money campaigning even if they never get past 1% votes or so.
So there will be plenty of Republicans pretending to clamor for the nomination, even though none will have a chance if Trump is still around by then and decides to run.
To finish this thought, said serial campaigners (Newt is king) then pay their own companies for campaign consulting and work.That includes paying oneself and one's family members big salaries. Add in book tours and pushing book sales along with your campaign travels and you can earn millions.

The question is, who are the suckers donating to these loser's campaigns?
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Old 4th July 2017, 08:20 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
To finish this thought, said serial campaigners (Newt is king) then pay their own companies for campaign consulting and work.That includes paying oneself and one's family members big salaries. Add in book tours and pushing book sales along with your campaign travels and you can earn millions.

The question is, who are the suckers donating to these loser's campaigns?
You can find them on their couches surfing Breitbart, making a donation to Newt while on hold buying something from HSN. They've temporarily flipped to an episode of Jerry Springer, though because there's something about the hand model currently showing off a charming turquoise bracelet that seems really bitchy.

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Old 4th July 2017, 08:32 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Even The PDJT doesn't think he stands for all of America, but only his party. He keeps maintaining the distinction between "us" and "them". Look at how often he says "We won the election."

Obama was called the divider. He was constantly accused of being the source of division in the US. And here we have Trump who has made dividing the country his #1 priority.

And yet, the most hypocritical group of people in the world, the GOP supporters, will of course have nothing to say about it.
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Old 4th July 2017, 09:21 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
If these are the only considerations, you'd be right. But these aren't the only considerations, a serious contender could still hope to join him in the cabinet, earning experience for later. Trump airing dirty laundry today won't hurt so much 12 years later. Alternatively if the candidate is old, too old to wait that long, he could still mount a challenge because he has little to lose anyway. These aren't elves we're talking about, the candidates don't have 100 or more election cycles to make their attempt, you can hope for 5-6 attempts at best. If Trump eats one and then another two when GOP has no chance at winning, that's half your life chances worth gone with the wind through no fault but inaction on your part.
I don't understand your timeline. Twelve years later? What is that scenario? I can't picture it.
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Old 4th July 2017, 09:43 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I don't understand your timeline. Twelve years later? What is that scenario? I can't picture it.
I think the idea is that

Trump wins in 2020 (when the dirty laundry is aired)

The Democratic Party candidate wins in 2024 and 2028 so the next GOP President off the rank is likely to come about in 2032 ?
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Old 4th July 2017, 11:22 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Evidently the Alt-right didn't appreciate one of their own being outed as the creator of that video:
https://twitter.com/JYSexton/status/881860850956599297
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Old 4th July 2017, 11:28 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
Evidently the Alt-right didn't appreciate one of their own being outed as the creator of that video:
https://twitter.com/JYSexton/status/881860850956599297
What!? Why? It's not like it was a secret they're just a collection of racists, bigots and anti-Semites.
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Old 4th July 2017, 11:35 AM   #178
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Why, what does the tweet say?
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Old 4th July 2017, 11:38 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Why, what does the tweet say?
The person that outed the creator of Trump's CNN video has been the subject of a deluge harassment and death threats from the alt-reich.
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Old 4th July 2017, 11:39 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
Evidently the Alt-right didn't appreciate one of their own being outed as the creator of that video:
https://twitter.com/JYSexton/status/881860850956599297
That's really ugly. From what I've seen, the guys on the alt-right are proud of their brother for creating the video but upset that his history is being used against the God-Emperor.
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Old 4th July 2017, 11:42 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
The person that outed the creator of Trump's CNN video has been the subject of a deluge harassment and death threats from the alt-reich.
That is very weird. You'd think they'd have the courage of their convictions... if convictions they have.
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Old 4th July 2017, 11:47 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
That is very weird. You'd think they'd have the courage of their convictions... if convictions they have.
I think they're more concerned about Trump being directly tied to the alt-reich community again since that hurts him with the large number of reluctant voters he had.
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Old 4th July 2017, 12:47 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by TofuFighter View Post
"My country, right or wrong" is a questionable position to take.

It depends on what is meant by that statement.

I don't approve of everything my country does, nor do I support everything my country does. Quite the opposite. I take positive and active measures to express my disapproval and to try to effect change.

But it is still my country. Just because it isn't perfect doesn't change that. Doing what I can to change or improve the things I see as mistakes is a reflection of that.

Is that the sort of thing you meant by that statement?
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Old 4th July 2017, 12:52 PM   #184
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Trump continues to damage US credibility and relations with our allies around the world and continues to try to inflict damaging policies against Americans, and now this:

Quote:
The world looks past Donald Trump

Trump's unpopularity abroad is forcing leaders to consider their own political positions, before getting too close to the American President -- even if they seek to preserve Washington's still vital global role as the guarantor of liberal market economics and democracy.

The Trump administration refutes the notion that it has downgraded American leadership, arguing that Trump's foreign trips, flurry of meetings and frequent calls with foreign presidents and prime ministers shows intense engagement.

But increasingly, top foreign policymakers from Germany to Iraq and Canada to Asia are contemplating a period when US leadership that many took for granted may be less evident in global affairs, after Trump turned his back on multilateral trade deals and downplayed multinational institutions and agreements.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/04/politi...ump/index.html
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Old 4th July 2017, 01:03 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by TofuFighter View Post
I've included the original post so it's close enough in context.

It may be that both you and Pixel42 have interpreted Quadraginta correctly, and that i have not.
Obviously Trump is the Potus. Quad frames it as 'our' Potus.
"it's still my country and I support the system"

I could never have taken this position during the apartheid era in South Africa. You can probably think of other examples.

I just sometimes think that Americans, as an example, are too nationalistic, and the post i replied to rung that bell slightly for me.

Sounds to me like you have a hammer and are looking for nails.
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Old 4th July 2017, 01:05 PM   #186
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Six months in office and it is very clear that Trump is an incompetent moron who is totally unfit mentally to run the United States of America.

Quote:
Disaster: Rich People Are Turning Their Backs on Trump
Millionaires who voted for the president are experiencing buyer’s remorse.


CNBC reports that of the 750 people it polled who have “investible assets of more than $1 million or more,” 45 percent voted for Trump and 41 percent voted for Clinton. But a good number seem to be having buyer’s remorse: when asked their views on the Apprentice host-turned-commander-in-chief last month, 50 percent said that they are now anti-Trump, 21 percent have mixed feelings, and a mere 29 percent are pro-Trump. According to the respondents, the No. 1 risk to the economy over the next year is “government dysfunction,” which was one of the three issues those polled gave Trump low marks on, as well as health-care reform and the national debt.

Considering the 45th president seems to relish in dysfunction and chaos, especially among his own staff, and attempts thus far to “repeal and replace” Obamacare are blowing up in his face, it seems unlikely he’ll be able to win back the love of his fellow 1-percenters anytime soon.

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/...backs-on-trump
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Old 4th July 2017, 01:07 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Even The PDJT doesn't think he stands for all of America, but only his party. He keeps maintaining the distinction between "us" and "them". Look at how often he says "We won the election."

Over-analyzing and intentionally distorting common usages of speech to try and make a nit-picky point.

The very essence of pedantic, sophomoric argument.
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Old 4th July 2017, 01:12 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
That is very weird. You'd think they'd have the courage of their convictions... if convictions they have.

Convictions they got plenty of.

Courage? Not so much.
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Old 4th July 2017, 01:13 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
Evidently the Alt-right didn't appreciate one of their own being outed as the creator of that video:
https://twitter.com/JYSexton/status/881860850956599297
Someone put it in a slightly better format for reading.

https://twitter.com/i/moments/881994184525320193
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Old 4th July 2017, 01:38 PM   #190
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David Brooks has a good analysis of Trump hard core supporters

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/04/o...e-iphone-share

It doesn't provide actionable answers other than maybe not trying to convince them the Federal government can do any good for them.


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Old 4th July 2017, 01:54 PM   #191
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Can we have the season finale of "Trump" be an episode where he finally realizes if he doesn't do something drastic he will go down as the worst POTUS in history so he decides to do the biggest 180 spin of his career and pretend everything up to this point was all a clever plan to get the republican party to drop any pretense and show their true, and awful, colors. and having accomplished his true goal will now step down and retire as America's Most Bigly Hero.
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Old 4th July 2017, 02:00 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
Can we have the season finale of "Trump" be an episode where he finally realizes if he doesn't do something drastic he will go down as the worst POTUS in history so he decides to do the biggest 180 spin of his career and pretend everything up to this point was all a clever plan to get the republican party to drop any pretense and show their true, and awful, colors. and having accomplished his true goal will now step down and retire as America's Most Bigly Hero.
Well, bless you; almost shed a tear. Nice plot and ending.
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Old 4th July 2017, 02:02 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Over-analyzing and intentionally distorting common usages of speech to try and make a nit-picky point.

The very essence of pedantic, sophomoric argument.
Non-analytical. Pure color commentary.
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Old 4th July 2017, 02:18 PM   #194
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Looks like Trump is delivering on immigration, even without the wall:

http://libertyunyielding.com/2017/07...-staying-home/

This is the kind of thing that keeps a lot of his base happy despite his failures.
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Old 4th July 2017, 04:26 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Over-analyzing and intentionally distorting common usages of speech to try and make a nit-picky point.

The very essence of pedantic, sophomoric argument.
Mine, or his?

Mine makes sense. His doesn't. Disregarding over half of his constituents is much more than a "nit-picky point."
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Old 4th July 2017, 04:32 PM   #196
Stacko
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The creator of the CNN video has apologized.
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Old 4th July 2017, 04:40 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
I don't accept because his apology is not credible.
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Old 4th July 2017, 04:53 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I don't accept because his apology is not credible.
What would make it credible to you?

Or is he so deplorable as to be beyond redemption?
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Old 4th July 2017, 05:09 PM   #199
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
What would make it credible to you?

Or is he so deplorable as to be beyond redemption?
The issue is that he is a member of a group that think they are the smartest people out there and think they should purposely deceive and $#!+post as a broader strategy. People from there are not credible.

Edited by jsfisher:  ...snip... Removed content at odds with rules 0 and 12 of the Membership Agreement.

Last edited by jsfisher; 6th July 2017 at 06:50 PM.
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Old 4th July 2017, 07:52 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I don't accept because his apology is not credible.
According to some of the alt-right lads, he's only doing this because of CNN having his particulars firmly in their grasp.

Quote:
CNN is not publishing "HanA**holeSolo's" name because he is a private citizen who has issued an extensive statement of apology, showed his remorse by saying he has taken down all his offending posts, and because he said he is not going to repeat this ugly behavior on social media again. In addition, he said his statement could serve as an example to others not to do the same.
CNN reserves the right to publish his identity should any of that change.
Full article for context here.
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