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Tags donald trump , lying charges , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , US-Russia relations , vladimir putin

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Old 13th August 2017, 08:30 AM   #1481
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The argument "Russians are innocent because they are Superior" is kinda ... I'd say "lame", if "fascist" wasn't the better word.
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Old 13th August 2017, 08:34 AM   #1482
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
About Killary's cowboy server he said that when he hacked it in 2013, he was far from the first and traces were left all over the place. And he notes the obvious even our resident Russia CT kooks understand and therefore stay very small-lipped about:
Originally Posted by FOX
Lazar does not believe a Russian connection will be found because, "the Russians are more skillful than this, to let the tracks saved in the documents point to them. So, this is made by the other guys who want to put and point to the Russians."

Yes, but the Russians also know that and will obviously leave hints of their presence in order to make people believe they were not involved.
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Old 13th August 2017, 08:36 AM   #1483
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Yes, but the Russians also know that and will obviously leave hints of their presence in order to make people believe they were not involved.

It's turtles all the way down.
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Old 13th August 2017, 08:46 AM   #1484
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
The argument "Russians are innocent because they are Superior" is kinda ... I'd say "lame", if "fascist" wasn't the better word.
Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Yes, but the Russians also know that and will obviously leave hints of their presence in order to make people believe they were not involved.
Alternatively, the fact that the Russians sometimes cover their tracks doesn't mean that they always do so.

Oversights happen.

Some evidence is circumstantial because it is easy to fake - for example the timestamp evidence; *I* have sufficient knowledge to fake that, so the fact that indicates somewhere in the US is not very useful.
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Old 13th August 2017, 08:59 AM   #1485
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Alternatively, the fact that the Russians sometimes cover their tracks doesn't mean that they always do so.

Oversights happen.

Some evidence is circumstantial because it is easy to fake - for example the timestamp evidence; *I* have sufficient knowledge to fake that, so the fact that indicates somewhere in the US is not very useful.

And you have sufficient knowledge (although I'm not sure about creativity) to leave the name of an infamous soviet intelligence guy in Cyrillic letters in the meta data. Thanks for finally acknowledging that.

Next you explain why a Russian hacker would do that.
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Old 13th August 2017, 09:03 AM   #1486
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Next you explain why a Russian hacker would do that.

Because they're most skilled in digital breaking and entering than they are in scrubbing the stolen goods of every single fingerprint?
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Old 13th August 2017, 09:03 AM   #1487
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Next you explain why a Russian hacker would do that.
Vanity.
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Old 13th August 2017, 09:08 AM   #1488
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
Because they're most skilled in digital breaking and entering than they are in scrubbing the stolen goods of every single fingerprint?

Taking care of the meta data is absolute basic stuff even jimbob is aware of. Vanity is maybe the best explanation, and it's totally weak if we are dealing with a professional operation (i.e. "The Russians", i.e. "Putin"). They would leave their traces only if they want their targets to know that they did something serious enough to not let the public know.
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Old 13th August 2017, 09:19 AM   #1489
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Taking care of the meta data is absolute basic stuff even jimbob is aware of. Vanity is maybe the best explanation, and it's totally weak if we are dealing with a professional operation (i.e. "The Russians", i.e. "Putin"). They would leave their traces only if they want their targets to know that they did something serious enough to not let the public know.
It could be carelessness, it could be deliberate misinformation. It does not, however, support the case that it is not Russia.
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Old 13th August 2017, 09:23 AM   #1490
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
It could be carelessness, it could be deliberate misinformation. It does not, however, support the case that it is not Russia.

Oh, it does, especially including the fact that we know about this meta data from a shady company run by a disgruntled Russian connected in transatlantic "think" tanks, not from the FBI who never saw the server.
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Old 13th August 2017, 10:13 PM   #1491
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
...They would leave their traces only if they want their targets to know that they did something serious enough to not let the public know...
Really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgi_Markov
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Old 14th August 2017, 01:18 AM   #1492
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Brilliant: The De-Putin-Nazification of America

Originally Posted by CJ Hopkins
[...] As I’m sure you’ll recall, the Putin-Nazis originally materialized out of thin air around the time that Clinton was managing to lose the US presidential election to a repulsive, jabbering, narcissistic clown with absolutely no political experience, who the mainstream media had been assuring the world for months was the Second Coming of Hitler. Given that it was virtually impossible for Clinton to lose to such a noxious buffoon, the only rational explanation was that the Russians had somehow “hacked” the election, or “interfered with,” or “influenced” the election. They had done this by getting their hands on a batch of internal Democratic Party emails, passing them on to Putin-Nazi Propaganda Minister Julian Assange, who published them on the Internet, where they were read by former Obama-voters, who were so completely shocked by their contents that they decided not to vote for Clinton, as they had obviously been intending to do, until their minds got “interfered with.”

The rest, as they say, is history. On January 20, despite the fact that everyone knew that the entire Trump family were Putin-Nazi “sleeper” agents, and that the man himself was the Glorious Leader of an underground army of neo-Nazis numbering in the tens of hundreds that was threatening the very fabric of democracy by circulating cartoon frogs on the Internet, Donald J. Trump was sworn in as President, and the Trumpian Reich officially began. [...]

Seven months later, here we are, with a Special Counsel and a D.C. grand jury, who will certainly be able to find something on Trump, or at least ensure that he spends the rest of his term denying the stream of allegations, rumors, and leaks that will flow therefrom. Which means it’s time to start getting ready for the day when our national nightmare is over, and Kamala Harris (or whichever loyal figurehead the ruling classes ultimately choose) marches through Washington like Charles de Gaulle, presumably with the Obamas and Clintons in tow, after which the USA can continue to bomb, occupy, sanction, and otherwise destabilize various other countries, allow its banks to debt-enslave its citizens, maintain a brutal, militarized police force, and everything else it’s doing at the moment, but in a normal, liberal, non-fascist manner, and Stephen Colbert can get back to comedy. [...]
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Old 14th August 2017, 12:24 PM   #1493
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Brilliant: The De-Putin-Nazification of America
Originally Posted by CJ Hopkins
Given that it was virtually impossible for Clinton to lose to such a noxious buffoon, the only rational explanation was that the Russians had somehow “hacked” the election, or “interfered with,” or “influenced” the election.


This indeed sounds very equivalent to the way Conspiracy Theorists "think": "I can't explain A, therefore any B that happens to pop out of the darkest of my body cavities".
E.g. "I do not see how the NoC witnesses could possibly be mistaken, therefore a military plane flew over the Pentagon".
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Old 14th August 2017, 02:06 PM   #1494
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post


This indeed sounds very equivalent to the way Conspiracy Theorists "think": "I can't explain A, therefore any B that happens to pop out of the darkest of my body cavities".
E.g. "I do not see how the NoC witnesses could possibly be mistaken, therefore a military plane flew over the Pentagon".
I don't think you understood that article.
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Old 14th August 2017, 02:15 PM   #1495
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
That was hilarious.
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Old 14th August 2017, 02:25 PM   #1496
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
That was hilarious.

I think I'm going to buy his debut novel Zone 23 that is advertised in the article. There is one great writer (never heard of him before).
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Old 14th August 2017, 06:23 PM   #1497
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Paul Manafort may become eager to make a deal.
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Old 15th August 2017, 09:18 AM   #1498
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Curious. And yet Emily's Cat tells us that the Russian involvement is overblown, and that the Trump gang is getting in trouble merely for associating with ordinary Russian citizens, and even for associating with ordinary American citizens of Russian descent.

Damn, those ordinary Russian citizens are positively brimming with wealth and high-level connections. It must be an extraordinarily wealthy country, and the common people apparently excel as networking.
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Old 15th August 2017, 01:18 PM   #1499
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
So we may have our Joe Valachi
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Old 15th August 2017, 01:43 PM   #1500
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Anybody here talking about this Salon article, which references a Nation article which also seems to have been ignored by the lamestream media. Quoting from Salon:

Quote:
Last week the respected left-liberal magazine The Nation published an explosive article that details in great depth the findings of a new report — authored in large part by former U.S. intelligence officers — which claims to present forensic evidence that the Democratic National Committee was not hacked by the Russians in July 2016. Instead, the report alleges, the DNC suffered an insider leak, conducted in the Eastern time zone of the United States by someone with physical access to a DNC computer.
The former US intelligence officers are the members of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, a group that was initially formed to protest against the intel used to justify the Iraq War.

This part sounds pretty conclusive:

Quote:
Investigators found that 1,976 megabytes of data were downloaded locally on July 5, 2016. The information was downloaded with a memory key or some other portable storage device. The download operation took 87 seconds — meaning the speed of transfer was 22.7 megabytes per second — “a speed that far exceeds an internet capability for a remote hack,” as Lawrence puts it. What’s more, they say, a transoceanic transfer would have been even slower (Guccifer claimed to be working from Romania).
And get this:

Quote:
Further casting doubt on the official narrative is the fact the the DNC’s computer servers were never examined by the FBI. Instead, the agency relied on a report compiled by Crowdstrike, a cybersecurity firm compromised by serious conflicts of interest — the major one being that the firm was paid by the DNC itself to conduct its work. Another is that the firm’s owner is a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, a think tank known for its hostility toward Russia.
However, this part makes me a little uncomfortable:

Quote:
The Intelligence Community Assessment published in January of this year, which claims “high confidence” in the Russian hacking theory, presented no hard evidence. Yet many in the media have relied on it as proof ever since. Ray McGovern, another VIPS member and formerly the chief of the CIA’s Soviet Foreign Policy Branch, called that intelligence assessment a “disgrace” to the profession.
McGovern is a bit of a kook; he has been on the fringes of the 9-11 Truth Movement for years; he wrote this blurb for one of David Ray Griffin's many nutty books:

Quote:
"It has long been clear that the Bush-Cheney administration cynically exploited the attacks of 9/11 to promote its imperial designs.

But the present volume confronts us with compelling evidence for an even more disturbing conclusion: that the 9/11 attacks were themselves orchestrated by this administration precisely so they could be thus exploited.
Compelling evidence? Griffin's claims fall apart as soon as you examine them.

So McGovern's got some hair on him, and he's one of the four principal authors of the VIPS study according to the Nation:

Quote:
The chief researchers active on the DNC case are four: William Binney, formerly the NSA’s technical director for world geopolitical and military analysis and designer of many agency programs now in use; Kirk Wiebe, formerly a senior analyst at the NSA’s SIGINT Automation Research Center; Edward Loomis, formerly technical director in the NSA’s Office of Signal Processing; and Ray McGovern, an intelligence analyst for nearly three decades and formerly chief of the CIA’s Soviet Foreign Policy Branch.
So I decided to look more into some of the other guys. William Binney? Here's an interview with him after he signed AE 9-11 Truth's petition.

As for Weibe and Loomis I couldn't find any concreted evidence of ties to the 9-11 crackpots, but they were both was closely associated with Binney at the NSA, and they both claim they could have prevented 9-11.

Quote:
In a hard-hitting, on-point report, they told Scott Pelley that NSA had technology---a program called ThinThread--that was ready to deploy in January 2001 and could have picked up critical intelligence prior to 9/11. NSA management rejected ThinThread, and embarked on a billion-dollar boondoggle, Trailblazer, a proposal designed figure how to do what ThinThread could do (collect and analyze massive amounts of data) on a massive and far more invasive scale. NSA also tossed ThinThread's privacy protections, leaving Americans vulnerable to illegal surveillance.
But according to this New Yorker article from a couple years back ThinThread was rejected precisely because its privacy protections were inadequate:

Quote:
But this was before 9/11, and the N.S.A.’s lawyers deemed ThinThread too invasive of Americans’ privacy.
So I'd say yellow light on this story: proceed with caution.
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Old 15th August 2017, 01:52 PM   #1501
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The "new report" has been discussed here when it came out, and the best argument against its direct findings has been that the analysis of the available data from the Guccifer 2.0 (not to be confused with Guccifer 1.0, see above) leaks cannot account for if this is the original data taken from the DNC server, meaning there could have been steps before it was copied in the eastern coastal timezone at speed you can't do over the internet - maybe aliens with space hacking beams.
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Old 15th August 2017, 02:04 PM   #1502
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Seriously, this again? Those high speed copies took place weeks after Guccifer 2.0 publicly announced that they had breached the DNC.
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Old 15th August 2017, 02:06 PM   #1503
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Seriously, this again? Those high speed copies took place weeks after Guccifer 2.0 publicly announced that they had breached the DNC.
And, as I've mentioned before, time and date stamps tell us nothing given that time and date are easily modified on both files and the computers themselves.
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Old 15th August 2017, 02:58 PM   #1504
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btw, here's Tucker Carlson interviewing William Binney about this yesterday. Binney, who Brainster
can't help himself but to habitually smear with some ultra-vague "9/11 truth" connection, according to wikipedia:

Originally Posted by wikipedia
[...] Binney's NSA career culminated as Technical Leader for intelligence in 2001. Having expertise in intelligence analysis, traffic analysis, systems analysis, knowledge management, and mathematics (including set theory, number theory, and probability),[7] Binney has been described as one of the best analysts in the NSA's history.[8] [...]

In September 2002, he, along with J. Kirk Wiebe and Edward Loomis, asked the U.S. Defense Department Inspector General (DoD IG) to investigate the NSA for allegedly wasting "millions and millions of dollars" on Trailblazer, a system intended to analyze mass collection of data carried on communications networks such as the Internet. Binney had been one of the inventors of an alternative system, ThinThread, which was shelved when Trailblazer was chosen instead. [...]

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Old 15th August 2017, 03:30 PM   #1505
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Anybody here talking about this Salon article, which references a Nation article which also seems to have been ignored by the lamestream media. Quoting from Salon:

....
From my few seconds on The Nation article before they demanded my email address:
Quote:
... by someone with access to the DNC server...
I don't see how that rules out Russia.


WA Po: Here’s the public evidence that supports the idea that Russia interfered in the 2016 election

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Old 15th August 2017, 04:18 PM   #1506
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This could go here or in the "DOJ wants protesters' names" thread so I'm going to post it in both threads:

'A model for civilization': Putin's Russia has emerged as 'a beacon for nationalists' and the American alt-right
Quote:
'A model for civilization': Putin's Russia has emerged as 'a beacon for nationalists' and the American alt-right.

Spencer's ties to Russia, which he has called the “sole white power in the world," go deeper. He was married until October to Russian writer and self-proclaimed "Kremlin troll leader" Nina Kouprianova, whose writing under the pen name Nina Byzantina regularly aligns with Kremlin talking points.
OK now that's even more disturbing.

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Old 15th August 2017, 04:52 PM   #1507
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
This part sounds pretty conclusive:
...
It has been pointed out earlier in this thread that this copy time of 87 occurred at some time relative to the actual hack: The report suggests it happened during the hack (i.e. the copy activity that constitutes the hack), but could as easily, and trivially, have occurred later.

Picture it like this:
Original hack - via internet: Takes, say, 2 hours (number just an example).
Hacker then copies it to a USB stick - for example, perhaps 73 seconds - and gives stick to friend
Friend then copies file to own computer, which is a tad weaker on USB port - 87 seconds
And that's the 87 seconds they found.
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Old 15th August 2017, 04:59 PM   #1508
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Anybody here talking about this Salon article, which references a Nation article which also seems to have been ignored by the lamestream media. Quoting from Salon:



The former US intelligence officers are the members of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, a group that was initially formed to protest against the intel used to justify the Iraq War.

This part sounds pretty conclusive:



And get this:



However, this part makes me a little uncomfortable:



McGovern is a bit of a kook; he has been on the fringes of the 9-11 Truth Movement for years; he wrote this blurb for one of David Ray Griffin's many nutty books:



Compelling evidence? Griffin's claims fall apart as soon as you examine them.

So McGovern's got some hair on him, and he's one of the four principal authors of the VIPS study according to the Nation:



So I decided to look more into some of the other guys. William Binney? Here's an interview with him after he signed AE 9-11 Truth's petition.

As for Weibe and Loomis I couldn't find any concreted evidence of ties to the 9-11 crackpots, but they were both was closely associated with Binney at the NSA, and they both claim they could have prevented 9-11.



But according to this New Yorker article from a couple years back ThinThread was rejected precisely because its privacy protections were inadequate:



So I'd say yellow light on this story: proceed with caution.
I wonder how long until you can put aside your partisan blinders and admit we have a person totally unfit person in the White House. Maybe his siding with the Neo Nazis and the Klan today will help....
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Old 15th August 2017, 05:00 PM   #1509
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If PUtin purpose in trying to get Trump elected was to throw the US into Chaos, he might be succeeding....
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Old 15th August 2017, 07:28 PM   #1510
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
And, as I've mentioned before, time and date stamps tell us nothing given that time and date are easily modified on both files and the computers themselves.
And The Nation is reviewing the article to fact check this.

Quote:
Katrina vanden Heuvel, the Nation’s editor and publisher (and the writer of a weekly online column for The Post), tells the Erik Wemple Blog that Lawrence’s piece is undergoing a post-publication editorial review. “We’re doing the review as we speak, and I don’t want to rush to say anything,” said vanden Heuvel. Part of that review is an assessment of the technical feasibility of the points in Lawrence’s article.

That’s a critical consideration, because the piece relies to a significant degree on a finding that hackers working remotely couldn’t possibly have downloaded all the information that they allegedly secured and passed along to WikiLeaks. Though Lawrence’s writing on this topic is impenetrable, he cites a number of researchers and groups — including Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS) — who have examined the official case for a DNC hack. Among the key actors is someone known as the “Forensicator,” an independent researcher of unknown identity.

...

Maybe the Nation should have done the technical patdown prior to publication. “Most households don’t get internet speeds that high, but enterprise operations, like the DNC — or, uh, the [Russian] FSB — would have access to a higher but certainly not unattainable speed like that,” wrote Brian Feldman in a debunking in New York Magazine.
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Old 15th August 2017, 07:46 PM   #1511
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The Nation article is third rate propaganda written by a Putin cheerleader and based on the research of what is, essentially, a Truther conspiracy club. And now another Putin apologist, the editor and publisher of The Nation, has decided to fact check the article post publication. Journalism at it's very finest.
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Old 15th August 2017, 08:00 PM   #1512
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
The Nation article is third rate propaganda written by a Putin cheerleader and based on the research of what is, essentially, a Truther conspiracy club. And now another Putin apologist, the editor and publisher of The Nation, has decided to fact check the article post publication. Journalism at it's very finest.
What evidence do you have that The Nation or its editor is a Putin apologist? That's bull. They are especially negative about Putin because of his murder of reporters.
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Old 15th August 2017, 10:35 PM   #1513
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the WaPo article linked to earlier was worth a read.

it does point out that there's probably classified information on this as well but the public information is still pretty convincing


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...2016-election/
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Old 16th August 2017, 01:43 AM   #1514
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I wonder how long until you can put aside your partisan blinders and admit we have a person totally unfit person in the White House. Maybe his siding with the Neo Nazis and the Klan today will help....
Sigh. The usual overblown nonsense. I read what Trump said, and to me it's mostly spot on, although as usual there are liberal reporters looking around for a fainting couch every time he tweets or says something. Ohmigod, he compared antifa to a bunch of far right goons! And how dare he even suggest that some of the people in that march might be supporters of Confederate history and not skinhead racists?

Why are these things so outrageous? Because they are not what the liberal elites think. They think that Antifa is the modern version of the Society of the White Rose; they don't see that fascist movements can arrive on the left as well as the right. Maybe those black bloc guys are a little out of control, but they mean well. And of course Confederate statues have to go. But as Trump said, what's next?

Quote:
On Monday, more than 200 SJW zealots held a protest inside the American Museum of Natural History in New York City to take down the supposedly “racist” statue of former President Theodore Roosevelt. The protest’s organizers, NYC Stands with Standing Rock and Decolonize This Place, also called for Columbus Day to be renamed Indigenous People’s Day.
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Old 16th August 2017, 05:39 AM   #1515
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Compelling evidence? Griffin's claims fall apart as soon as you examine them.
So do VIPS/Forensicator's claims -- "as soon as you examine them" being the key.
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Old 16th August 2017, 05:49 AM   #1516
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
And, as I've mentioned before, time and date stamps tell us nothing given that time and date are easily modified on both files and the computers themselves.
But even assuming those date/time stamps are correct, all they tell us is that someone copied all those files (probably using linux) weeks after Guccifer 2.0 claimed they had acquired "thousands of files and mails" in the DNC breach. This makes the time stamp analysis an exercise in CT smokescreening at best.

ETA: Basically this post.
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Old 16th August 2017, 09:47 AM   #1517
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Curious. And yet Emily's Cat tells us that the Russian involvement is overblown, and that the Trump gang is getting in trouble merely for associating with ordinary Russian citizens, and even for associating with ordinary American citizens of Russian descent.
Not exactly.

I've said that the news is busy speculating about anyone who has any connection to anyone Russian and proceeding to flood the media with rampant yet unproven allegations of every nefarious sort.

There may be connections. There may be wrongdoing. But for most of the stuff that you guys are so perfectly certain about... it's speculations based on hypotheticals fueled by unnamed and unverified sources. In short, it's predominantly gossip. Trying to find actual fact embedded in all the hearsay is a serious challenge, and many of you seem to have tossed any claim to skepticism right out the window.

Let me be clear: Mueller is performing an investigation; Media is orchestrating a witch hunt.
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Old 16th August 2017, 09:54 AM   #1518
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Quote:
Two former federal prosecutors
{unnamed and anonymous}
Quote:
Some White House officials ... on condition of anonymity... They feel .. may have ... these White House aides suspect
{unnamed and anonymous}



Seriously people, at what point in time did the Daily beast become a credible and reliable source of fact?
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Old 16th August 2017, 06:21 PM   #1519
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Not exactly.

I've said that the news is busy speculating about anyone who has any connection to anyone Russian and proceeding to flood the media with rampant yet unproven allegations of every nefarious sort.
Specifc examples please. I'm disinterested in your fact-challenged, unsupported claims.
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Old 16th August 2017, 06:34 PM   #1520
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
... But as Trump said, what's next?
And just which Democratic legislators or leaders backed this tiny group of crazies?

I do believe you have a problem of scale in your false equivalency.
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