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Tags donald trump , lying charges , Russia conspiracies , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , US-Russia relations , vladimir putin

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Old 17th July 2017, 03:58 PM   #281
Meadmaker
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Proof of the meeting alone being a crime, maybe not by itself. But the evidence in total is really adding up.
Sure. They are acting awfully guilty. I think it will add up to something big, even if we don't get all the way to the cherry on top (impeachment and conviction).

There is plenty of reason to continue to fund an investigation, but don't jump the gun on prosecution.
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Old 17th July 2017, 04:00 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I'm not even American. You are flailing about without aim.[
Your on A USA politics thread freeing giving your wrong opinion and your retort is "you're not American". How nice!


Quote:
And now you're moving the goalposts. How about you address the meaning of "value", which you were disputing a moment ago?
The statute talks about money or other things of value. Your point that it's not monetary is crap. The thing of value will have to be valued. If it already starts as free, you're going to have a tough go valuing information, especially when there is no authority to do so. Even more important since the information didn't materialise. You can be like WilliamSegar and wish it, but that doesn't get it done.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/11/110.20

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Old 17th July 2017, 04:01 PM   #283
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Old 17th July 2017, 04:02 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Technically there is not enough evidence in the public sphere to assert crimes can be proved.

If that's your argument, fine. But that doesn't mean the rest of us are wrong to look at the totality of the circumstantial evidence.
That is, precisely, my argument.

And I strongly encourage everyone to look at the circumstantial evidence. These folks were neck deep in "the swamp" that his supporters thought for sure Trump was coming to Washington to drain.
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Old 17th July 2017, 04:06 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
The adoption ruse has been debunked.
I'll say. The initial e-mail was very clear about that.
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Old 17th July 2017, 04:08 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Your on A USA politics thread freeing giving your wrong opinion and your retort is "you're not American". How nice!
The point is that I don't have an American party if I'm not American. Sheesh, must everything be spelled out for you?

Quote:
The statute talks about money or other things of value.
Exactly. Other things of value. Information is routinely exchanged for money. It has value.

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Edited by Agatha:  Edited for rule 12
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Old 17th July 2017, 04:13 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
The Gore campaign was given the Bush campaign's debate prep book in 2000. They called the FBI.
It doesn't matter what actually happened. It's like Senate Republicans refusing to give Garland a hearing in an election year: I imagine Democrats would've done the same exact thing, which makes them the very worst kind of hypocrites (the hypothetical kind).
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Old 17th July 2017, 04:46 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Rewarded <> paid.
I had the same thought, but I considered it a relatively minor point - relative to the fact that a presidential candidate was urging a U.S. adversary to hack his opponent in hopes of uncovering (and sharing with the press) classified information. He wasn't joking, he meant it quite literally.
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Old 17th July 2017, 05:03 PM   #289
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If Spicer keeps this up he may have to apply for unemployment insurance.

Quote:
Spicer contradicts emails, President on Trump Jr meeting

Washington (CNN)White House press secretary Sean Spicer contradicted President Donald Trump Monday when he insisted that a meeting Donald Trump Jr. had with a Russian lawyer in the months leading up to the election was about adoption policy.

In his first appearance at the White House briefing since June 26, Spicer repeated the same defense that Trump Jr. originally offered on July 8 when he was asked about the meeting -- that it was a nothing but "short introductory meeting ... about the adoption of Russian children that was active and popular with American families years ago."

However, Trump Jr. later admitted he took the meeting because he was promised compromising information about Hillary Clinton when he publicly released his email exchange with Rob Goldstone, a publicist who helped set up the meeting.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/17/politi...aim/index.html
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Old 17th July 2017, 05:12 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post

Months ago, Trump stated that there was no collusion, but most recently, Trump Jr. threw cold water in his dad's face over his emails, which show that Trump Jr. attended a meeting that was intended to hand him dirt on Hillary Clinton by the Russians while he was part of the campaign and he didn't even report his Russian contacts to the FBI. In the aftermath, he sought to cover-up the meeting with Russians with lies after lies. Even some folks at Fox News seem to have had enough of Trump's lies.

Considering that multiple investigations are currently ongoing, let's see what else is revealed in the coming weeks and months.
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Old 17th July 2017, 05:14 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
If? Love it!
Trump is actually exactly what we need, ...

If you are Putin and the Russians, which is how he was elected president despite losing the popular vote to Clinton. It was a mistake putting placing an unfit and incompetent Trump into the White House which shows in his record low approval ratings that continued to drop since January.

Last edited by skyeagle409; 17th July 2017 at 05:18 PM.
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Old 17th July 2017, 05:23 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
The point is that I don't have an American party if I'm not American. Sheesh, must everything be spelled out for you?
Being liberal isn't part of a country, you're excuse of not being American means nothing with respect to ideology.


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Exactly. Other things of value. Information is routinely exchanged for money. It has value.
Give an example of money given for political dirt.

Last edited by logger; 17th July 2017 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 17th July 2017, 05:26 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
If you are Putin and the Russians, which is how he was elected president despite losing the popular vote to Clinton. It was a mistake putting placing an unfit and incompetent Trump into the White House which shows in his record low approval ratings that continued to drop since January.
Let me guess, the deep state have invested so much in war with Russia? Having a workable relationship must be very upsetting?

Last edited by logger; 17th July 2017 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 17th July 2017, 05:34 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Give an example of money given for political dirt.
No other administration is as stupid as this one.

Precidents don't mean much these days.
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Old 17th July 2017, 05:36 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Being liberal isn't part of a country
You don't know what "partisan" means?

Quote:
you're excuse of not being American means nothing with respect to ideology.
As you'd see if you bothered to participate in the forum in any capacity other than laughing at those who disagree with you on political matters, you'd see that I very often disagree with the left, here. So much so that I've been accused of being on the right several times.

Quote:
Give an example of money given for political dirt.
Are you now saying that you don't believe this sort of thing happens and at this point in your life you'd like to see examples? Are you saying that this'd be the first time you'd hear of it?
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Old 17th July 2017, 05:42 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post


Are you now saying that you don't believe this sort of thing happens and at this point in your life you'd like to see examples? Are you saying that this'd be the first time you'd hear of it?
You said information is routinely exchanged for money. Since we're talking about political dirt, I assume you can show some examples of campaigns paying for political dirt?

Last edited by logger; 17th July 2017 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 17th July 2017, 05:44 PM   #297
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Old 17th July 2017, 06:24 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
You said information is routinely exchanged for money. Since we're talking about political dirt, I assume you can show some examples of campaigns paying for political dirt?
Probably not, because nobody else has ever been this stupid in the White House.
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Old 17th July 2017, 06:26 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Probably not, because nobody else has ever been this stupid in the White House.
Really? I can think of one episode that was really stupid.

Led to impeachment, remember?
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Old 17th July 2017, 06:29 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Really? I can think of one episode that was really stupid.

Led to impeachment, remember?
1) I didn't say Trump was the only stupid president. Just that he's the MOST stupid. That's objective fact.

2) I meant the whole administration.
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Old 17th July 2017, 06:35 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
1) I didn't say Trump was the only stupid president. Just that he's the MOST stupid. That's objective fact.

2) I meant the whole administration.
Lol

Objective fact!
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Old 17th July 2017, 06:41 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
You said information is routinely exchanged for money. Since we're talking about political dirt, I assume you can show some examples of campaigns paying for political dirt?
Yes but before I spend any time and effort digging an example like this, I want to make sure I understand this correctly: you have never come across an example of this in your life, is that what you're saying? You doubt that information is sold for money, is that right?
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Old 17th July 2017, 07:08 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

Objective fact!
Name another president that had a celebration for a bill barely passing the house, only to see it subsequently die in the Senate.

Today ain't the right day for you to defend his intellect.
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Old 17th July 2017, 07:22 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Name another president that had a celebration for a bill barely passing the house, only to see it subsequently die in the Senate.

Today ain't the right day for you to defend his intellect.
Obviously miner compared to cigars and the Oval Office.
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Old 17th July 2017, 07:23 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Yes but before I spend any time and effort digging an example like this, I want to make sure I understand this correctly: you have never come across an example of this in your life, is that what you're saying? You doubt that information is sold for money, is that right?
Read the post you're quoting, it spells it out for you.
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Old 17th July 2017, 07:25 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
You said information is routinely exchanged for money. Since we're talking about political dirt, I assume you can show some examples of campaigns paying for political dirt?
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Yes but before I spend any time and effort digging an example like this, I want to make sure I understand this correctly: you have never come across an example of this in your life, is that what you're saying? You doubt that information is sold for money, is that right?
He's specifically talking about paying for political dirt. He repeated the phrase twice.


I must admit, no explicit examples come to mind. I've heard of people paying people to NOT provide political dirt. (Denny Hastert comes to mind.) I've heard of people given support and publicity for dishing political dirt that they were personally involved in. (A variety of invitations to speak for various people that accused Bill Clinton or Donald Trump of sexual harassment.) I can't recall an incident of actually paying for political dirt. I assume it happens, though. Did money change hands over that Access Hollywood tape?
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Old 17th July 2017, 07:26 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Obviously miner compared to cigars and the Oval Office.
Clinton is definitely a lot smarter than Trump.
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Old 17th July 2017, 07:28 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Obviously miner compared to cigars and the Oval Office.
Well, Bill Clinton served out his term and became a rich man. His wife became a US Senator, Secretary of State, and presidential candidate.

And, let's not forget, he got an opportunity to frolic with a young woman half his age, although he did end up sleeping on the White House couch for a while.

Being objective about it, that cigar worked out pretty well for Bill.

We'll see how Trump does.

ETA: So far, I must admit he has done very well. I just don't think he understood the kind of scrutiny he would be under as President. He had a good run going, but it might not end well.
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Old 17th July 2017, 08:04 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Obviously miner compared to cigars and the Oval Office.
You're making my point.
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Old 17th July 2017, 08:04 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Well, Bill Clinton served out his term and became a rich man. His wife became a US Senator, Secretary of State, and presidential candidate.
SOP that our politicians become quite wealthy.
Quote:
And, let's not forget, he got an opportunity to frolic with a young woman half his age, although he did end up sleeping on the White House couch for a while.

Being objective about it, that cigar worked out pretty well for Bill.
I wouldn't want that as my legacy.


Quote:
ETA: So far, I must admit he has done very well. I just don't think he understood the kind of scrutiny he would be under as President. He had a good run going, but it might not end well.
Yep, it actually angers me that he didn't see this type of opposition coming.
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Old 17th July 2017, 08:06 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
You're making my point.
Lol

I doubt that, I can't recall you ever having a point.
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Old 17th July 2017, 08:15 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
I wouldn't want that as my legacy.
You're in luck!
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Old 17th July 2017, 08:25 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
You're in luck!
It's not luck, it's called self control.
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Old 18th July 2017, 01:14 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
It's entirely fair to quote what Donald Jr said quite openly in 2008.

And yet Donald Sr has claimed not to have had much in the way of business dealings with Russians. He clearly has.

Given that Russia has been subject to a kleptocracy since the 90's a lot of that money is being washed.
I've heard it's gotten better since Jelzin is gone. Ask Bill Browder

Anyway: Do you mean this?
"I own nothing in Russia. I have no loans in Russia. I don't have any deals in Russia.”

"I haven't sold anything to russians" (What don Jr was saying) isn't in there. All 4 statements can be true!

God, you guys make me defend Trump!!! Is that really the kind of effect you guys want to have on the world?
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Old 18th July 2017, 02:10 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Read the post you're quoting, it spells it out for you.
It doesn't answer my question, actually. Perhaps you should've read the post you were quoting before responding.

You are so desperate that you can't even post coherently right now.
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Old 18th July 2017, 02:11 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
He's specifically talking about paying for political dirt. He repeated the phrase twice.
I read it both times. Are you both saying that while, yes, you can solicit and pay for valuable information with money, you're not so sure about this specific sort of valuable information?

Don't make me laugh.
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Old 18th July 2017, 04:19 AM   #317
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
It doesn't answer my question, actually. Perhaps you should've read the post you were quoting before responding.

You are so desperate that you can't even post coherently right now.
Lol

Meadmaker understood it. Now you're going to claim you don't understand and back to calling me desperate, love it!


Shall I spell it out for you again just to watch you weasel out of it?

Campaigns paying for political dirt is what you're looking for.

Last edited by logger; 18th July 2017 at 04:22 AM.
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Old 18th July 2017, 04:20 AM   #318
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Meadmaker understood it. Now you're going to claim you don't understand and back to calling me desperate, love it!
I do understand, hence the question:

Are you both saying that while, yes, you can solicit and pay for valuable information with money, you're not so sure about this specific sort of valuable information?

Yes, you are desperate. You're asking me to prove that 2+2=4 in order to avoid the uncomfortable conclusion that Trump and his ilk are traitors, and that your support of him makes you complicit.
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Old 18th July 2017, 04:23 AM   #319
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I read it both times. Are you both saying that while, yes, you can solicit and pay for valuable information with money, you're not so sure about this specific sort of valuable information?

Don't make me laugh.
You read it both times, but you are still asking someone else (me) what it meant?

What struck me as very odd was that logger asked a fairly specific, easy to understand question, and you responded by saying the equivalent of "Are you really asking something else?"

As for what I am saying, which is something different from what logger is saying, I've already said it, and most people get it. There's no need to ask what I'm saying. You can just read it. To repeat myself, I am saying there is insufficient evidence publicly available to conclude that Donald Trump or his associates committed a crime by meeting with Natalia Selevnitskiya.

There was also some discussion of what constituted a "thing of value" for the purposes of a statute on campaign finance law, which I suppose may still interest some people. Anyone who finds it interesting can pursue it further.
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Old 18th July 2017, 04:24 AM   #320
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I do understand, hence the question:

Are you both saying that while, yes, you can solicit and pay for valuable information with money, you're not so sure about this specific sort of valuable information?

Yes, you are desperate. You're asking me to prove that 2+2=4 in order to avoid the uncomfortable conclusion that Trump and his ilk are traitors, and that your support of him makes you complicit.
Lol
Again, since we're talking about campaigns paying for political dirt. You're looking for a campaign that paid for political dirt. Easy as 2+2=4
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