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Tags Amanda Knox , Italy cases , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

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Old 7th August 2017, 09:14 AM   #361
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
You don't get Bar Standards, do you?

During a live trial all evidence relating to it must be shared by all parties, together with the judge.

Any barrister expecting to chat with the judge 'in chambers' or an independant expert witness wanting the private ear of one of the parties, is grossly negligent in their duty to the court.
You don't get that there is no evidence whatsoever that Maori or any other defense lawyer "colluded" with Conti and Vecchiotti, do you? There is no evidence they were, in your words, "wined and dined". Speaking to them in public in full view of Stefanoni, journalists, etc is not exactly the best way to get "the private ear" of someone, is it?

I'm still waiting for you to provide evidence that Vecchiotti was "almost arrested" or that she had made the DVD for "the defence's eyes only".
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Old 7th August 2017, 09:21 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
"Linda Kulman

I am a journalist, writer, editor, and the author, most recently, of Teaching Common Sense: The Grand Strategy Program at Yale University about one of Yale’s best-known and most sought-after courses. Based on several years of onsite reporting, archival research, interviews with students and faculty, and original survey data, Teaching Common Sense looks at “Studies in Grand Strategy,” a year-long, by-application leadership seminar. The course addresses some of higher education’s bedrock question, such as how is critical thinking taught and how will this generation learn to cope with uncertainty in a fast-changing world.

I have collaborated on seven nonfiction books, working successfully with a group of diverse, demanding personalities to tell their personal, and sometimes painful, stories. These include Amanda Knox’s New York Times bestselling memoir, Waiting to be Heard; Hillary Clinton’s Dear Socks, Dear Buddy: Kids’ Letters to the First Pets, written while she was First Lady; New York Governor Andrew Cuomo’s All Things Possible: Setbacks and Success in Politics and Life; George McGovern’s What It Means to Be a Democrat; George Foreman’s Guide to Life: How to Get Up Off the Canvas When Life Knocks You Down; and James Carville’s We’re Right, They’re Wrong. Each of these projects required me to become an expert on a nuanced topic, whether on the Italian legal system, the root causes of homelessness, heavyweight wrestling, the history of pets in the White House, or gun safety reform. ...."

Source: http://branford.yalecollege.yale.edu/linda-kulman

Collaborator: a person who works jointly on an activity or project; an associate.

Source: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/de...n/collaborator
Thanks Numbers. This tangent arose from Vixen's suggestion that Amanda required the assistance of her boyfriend Chris to help with the spelling and grammar in her latest op-ed in the LA Times. I just pointed out that Amanda didn't seem to need his help having penned her own best selling book as well as hundreds of columns not to mention she graduated from a prestigious prep school and university. Vixen of course jumped in insisting it was Linda who wrote the book in its entirety.
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Old 7th August 2017, 09:24 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Stop talking rubbish. Slander and libel are merely civil matters. Obstruction of justice includes exactly what Amanda was convicted of, aiming to pervert the course of [FBI] investigators and is a federal felony which attracts on average five year's jail in most US states.
Rubbish is being talked here, but not by me.

Quote:
Slander and libel are merely civil matters.
EXACTLY! Which is why it is not a CRIMINAL offense as is calunnia. Which is why the US has no equivalent to calunnia.

What part of obstruction of justice requires lying UNDER OATH are you not understanding? Amanda was never under oath.

And for the umpteenth time (I know you love that term), if calunnia were recognized as an equivalent crime in the US, Amanda would have a criminal record in the US. She does not as TJMK's and your failure to ever produce one proves.
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Old 7th August 2017, 09:30 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The fact Linda Kulman is named as the author of Knox's pack of lies book, proves she is accredited with it and gets shared royalties.

Ghost writers are not normally named. A friend of mine in the know in the publishing world informs me Jeffrey Archer has a whole team of them.

Jeffery Archer gets the royalties.
My post below shows the numerous instances where PGP have ignored or defended books, films and documentaries with faslehoods which makes it hypocritical for PGP to attack Amanda for lying in her book.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11333243
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Old 7th August 2017, 09:32 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
You don't get that there is no evidence whatsoever that Maori or any other defense lawyer "colluded" with Conti and Vecchiotti, do you? There is no evidence they were, in your words, "wined and dined". Speaking to them in public in full view of Stefanoni, journalists, etc is not exactly the best way to get "the private ear" of someone, is it?

I'm still waiting for you to provide evidence that Vecchiotti was "almost arrested" or that she had made the DVD for "the defence's eyes only".
Vixen doesn't understand what is or isn't an ex-parte conversation. It wouldn't matter if they were having a private conversation about the case which clearly they weren't. Conti and Vechiotti are not judges. They are simply expert witnesses. In fact disclosure laws would require them to provide all the information about their tests to both the prosecution and defense and maybe answer questions prior to their testimony.
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Old 7th August 2017, 09:35 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Thanks Numbers. This tangent arose from Vixen's suggestion that Amanda required the assistance of her boyfriend Chris to help with the spelling and grammar in her latest op-ed in the LA Times. I just pointed out that Amanda didn't seem to need his help having penned her own best selling book as well as hundreds of columns not to mention she graduated from a prestigious prep school and university. Vixen of course jumped in insisting it was Linda who wrote the book in its entirety.
Perhaps part of the issue is that the PGP are ignorant of the role of editors in producing books and other written materials.

"Editing is the process of selecting and preparing written, visual, audible, and film media used to convey information. The editing process can involve correction, condensation, organization, and many other modifications performed with an intention of producing a correct, consistent, accurate and complete work.

The editing process often begins with the author's idea for the work itself, continuing as a collaboration between the author and the editor as the work is created. As such, editing can involve creative skills, human relations and a precise set of methods.
....
Self-employed editors work directly for clients (e.g., authors, publishers) or offer their services through editing firms, or both. They may specialize in a type of editing (e.g., copy editing) and in a particular subject area. Those who work directly for authors and develop professional relationships with them are called authors' editors."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editing
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Old 7th August 2017, 09:43 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Thanks Numbers. This tangent arose from Vixen's suggestion that Amanda required the assistance of her boyfriend Chris to help with the spelling and grammar in her latest op-ed in the LA Times. I just pointed out that Amanda didn't seem to need his help having penned her own best selling book as well as hundreds of columns not to mention she graduated from a prestigious prep school and university. Vixen of course jumped in insisting it was Linda who wrote the book in its entirety.
In other words, the poster posted a lie to shield another lie.
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Old 7th August 2017, 11:53 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
In other words, the poster posted a lie to shield another lie.
Par for the course.
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Old 7th August 2017, 01:47 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Perhaps part of the issue is that the PGP are ignorant of the role of editors in producing books and other written materials.

"Editing is the process of selecting and preparing written, visual, audible, and film media used to convey information. The editing process can involve correction, condensation, organization, and many other modifications performed with an intention of producing a correct, consistent, accurate and complete work.

The editing process often begins with the author's idea for the work itself, continuing as a collaboration between the author and the editor as the work is created. As such, editing can involve creative skills, human relations and a precise set of methods.
....
Self-employed editors work directly for clients (e.g., authors, publishers) or offer their services through editing firms, or both. They may specialize in a type of editing (e.g., copy editing) and in a particular subject area. Those who work directly for authors and develop professional relationships with them are called authors' editors."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editing
I doubt it has anything to do with ignorance. I'm sure that Vixen understands what an editor does. The facts are secondary to posting an incendiary remark about Amanda. The remark about grammar and spelling is without foundation. I have yet to read anything by Amanda that would lead anyone to come to the conclusion that either pose an issue.

Now maybe the reason for this is as as a professional writer, Amanda's work is submitted to an editor that proofs her work before it is published or that she is good at what she does. The point is that there is no way for anyone other than Amanda or her editor who knows.

Which leads to the question why pretend you know something that you KNOW you DON'T?
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Old 7th August 2017, 03:04 PM   #370
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SOME CHEESE WITH THAT WHINE!

Ho. Lee. Cow.

Just finished reading Mignini's "Submission of Criminal Complaint", written in support of charging Luca Maori (Sollecito's criminal lawyer), Alberto Lagana and Bruno Brunori, for defamatory comments Maori had made in 2015 in an interview with Lagana. Named as complainants in this submission are also Monica Napoleoni and Lorena Zugarini, who (it is claimed) were defamed by inference.

Thank you to Methos for pointing to the submission, available in translation from TJMK.

The rumour is - this complaint is being held up in Florence because the prosecutor there does not want to proceed with it. And if that is true, repeat "if", the submission itself contains the reasons why.

It is clear that Mignini deems it essential to relitigate the murder trial(s) which eventually cleared Knox and Sollecito. It's clear he's a sore loser.
He lays out his own reasons why the legal-legalities of that process (from 2009-2015) stopped with the Nencini trial. He regards the Fifth Chambers annulment of the Nencini convictions to be illegitimate - and here's the thing.....

...... for all the reasons that Vixen and Machiavelli have laid out in this thread, as well as those who post to TJMK.

However, I'd challenge anyone to cite an Italian legal source, other than Mignini, who agrees with his views on the Kercher murder trial processes. These are Mignini's whines, as well as his surrogates who repeat them almost verbatim.

But here's the deal - and these are the reasons IMO that the Florence prosecutor is not going to go ahead with the prosecution of defamation against Maori and Lagana.....

Mignini is signalling that essential to understanding that defamation are the facts of the Kercher murder trials as Mignini sees them. That means - probably - that those facts will be relitigated in the Florence court after the Fifth Chamber of Cassation has definitively put an end to it.

Two last things, the last of which is where even Mignini undercuts himself.

In the submission Mignini lists people "informed of the facts". They are Insp Armando Finzi, of the Perugia Flying Squad, Dr Daniela Severi, Advocate Carlo Pacelli, Giuseppe Castellini, Dr Manuela Comodi, and Dr Patrizia Stefanoni who Mignini claims are in a position to buttress his views on both the defamation statements, as well as the facts/evidence of the Kercher murder trials.

Do these people, particularly Stefanoni, want to be cross-examined on their conduct in the murder trials? Has the Florence prosecutor phoned Stefanoni only to be told that Stefanoni is washing her hair that month? Are all these people who are "informed of the facts" going to be forced to defame the Fifth Chambers the same way Mignini defames them in his submission? Do they really want that sort of trouble?

Besides, Napoleoni and Zugarini have unrelated legal problems of their own right now.

But then there's the second thing. In the submission, Mignini admits that as of the Fifth Chambers annulments, this annuls everything from Massei's court all the way to the Nencini court - with the exception (from Mignini's point of view) of what the First Chambers had found as factual in 2013. That set of stuff stands, even though Mignini counterintuitively says that both Massei and Hellmann are now gone.

How's that for logic.

Which prosecutor in their right mind wants to engage all this? Which prosecutor in their right mind wants to relitigate the Kercher trials, when those trials ended in acquittals - definitive at that! - for Knox and Sollecito?

All because Mignini lost?

When even Mignini conceeds, in writing in his submission, that all the lower court trials from the Kercher process now are annulled and without effect!?

Mignini probably DOES have a case of defamation, given the words Maori and Lagana used to describe him, and by extension Napoleoni and Zugarini. I agreed with that part in Mignini's submission that both Maori and Lagana could have made the same points about incompetence without becoming inflammatory.

But........

By trying to relitigate the Kercher process by claiming that he was right, even though he lost, is a whine. Nothing more. Nothing less.

But we now know who Machiavelli and Vixen are surrogates for in this thread. Everything they've claimed about the Fifth Chambers is in the submission Methos pointed to.

But none of it is factual - it is all Mignini's legal opinion, about a series of trials in which he eventually lost.

And we can gauge the size of the loss, but the size of his whine.
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Old 7th August 2017, 07:11 PM   #371
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Mignini in his submission says that Marasca/Bruno's use of Section 530.2 to annul the Nencini conviction represents a "“weakened” and “doubtful” formula"....
Quote:
"in open violation of
Articles 609 and 628, paragraph two Criminal Procedure Code
and with inadmissible re-evaluation of the merits of the case.
An annulment without remittance, according to what has been
given to be known, not requested by the appellants-accused
who had reiterated their usual objections to the decision but
had asked for annulment with remittance."
I have one source which says that this understanding changed in 1989 during the partial reform intended to move from an inquisitorial system to an adversarial system.

After 1989 "there is plenty of Cassation rulings stating the perfect legal equivalence of the acquittals issued under the two sections of Article 530." I do not have any to link to, so am just putting it out there.

In any event, since Mignini wrote his submission well before the publication of the Marasca-Bruno motivation report, not even M/B thought it important enough to deal with.

In short, they ignored Mignini. And from this distance, there was no hue and cry of protest in reply from any Italian legal source, except for Mignini's on-line surrogates.
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Old 7th August 2017, 07:20 PM   #372
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Ok.... now I'm participating in the merry-go-round.

All this was covered in June 2015 on this thread.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...9#post10732949

The big difference is that now the Mignini surrogates here are treating Mignini's claims in the submission as proven.

What's the statute of limitations on this defamation submission?
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Old 8th August 2017, 09:48 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
How sick is it for someone who wrote sick rape/murder fantasies and convicted of falsely accusing Patrick Lumumba of the rape and murder she and Raff were found guilty of in the merits trial and appeal (annulled by the Supreme Court on non-legal grounds) to get to write for the LA TIMES about other sick criminals.As per usual Knox turns the story round to one about herself, so no change to the narcissism there, then.
Interestingly, she also championed the cause of swimmer Brock Turner found 'dry humping' a woman in a coma on public ground.

I suspect Party Rock boyfriend, Chris Robinson, had a hand in helping her to write it and iron out the illiterate grammatical errors and spelling gaffes.
Pretentiously, she writes that whilst Michelle Carter - who urged her boyfriend to kill himself, which he then did - whilst 'morally and philosophically wrong' was 'unlawfully convicted'.

Really?

In which way is it 'philosophically' wrong? Just big words for form over substance. In fact there is plenty of philosophical literature on suicide: Hamlet, The Savage God; The Myth of Sisyphus, and so on and so forth. Who is Amanda Knox to say it is 'philosophically wrong' but not illegal? Someone who writes about her 'best truth' and things her 'head' is 'confusedly' telling her 'in blurry images'.

Fact is, it might be considered 'morally wrong' for someone who is a Christian, but Knox is a rabid atheist who frets she may never become President as she would be unable to swear on the Bible at the inauguration. What planet is this being on?

Legally: unfortunately for Knox suicide or aiding suicide was illegal in many western countries even up until the sixties, with 'assisted suicide' still being unlawful, with some countries, such as Switzerland allowing it for medical reasons in special clinics.

The fact the prosecutor in Carter's case had a criminal statute against her and there was jurisdiction to hear her case, means it cannot have been 'unlawful' to convict her, whether or not you agree with the charge.

How much was Knox paid for leeching off the murder of her roommate? Enquiring minds need to know.
What was LA TIMES thinking?
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
.
Fact is, I neither like or dislike this pair. It is their behaviour I despise.
You disprove yourself with your own words.
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Old 8th August 2017, 10:52 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
She should grow up. Since when was a 20-year old a 'kid'? As for, 'the Black guys call me their "little baby girl"' - snorts of scepticism - and prancing about in a little red riding hood outfit, who is she kidding?

Mind you, they do say psychopaths are arrested at a young emotional age, usually because of a traumatic incident. For example, Mary Bell, child killer aged 8, was used by her prostitute mum as a toddler prostitute.
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Why are you telling me? It is absolute rubbish to say a twenty-year old adult is 'just a child'.

They were not juveniles, they are not 'kids', they were not 'kidnapped'; none of the Black ex-cons call her 'our little baby girl' . (If they do it was probably a tactful response to her flirting with them).

The person who caused pain to her family was Amanda herself. When will this emotionally retarded person take responsibiltiy for her own actions instead of blaming innocent prison doctors, her age, the drugs, sexism, Italy, catholics, the victim's family and Uncle Tom Cobbley and all.
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I don't 'slut shame'. I couldn't give a toss about the pair's personal details.

Knox herself keeps portraying herself as a rampant nymphomaniac who invented sex. <fx YAWN>
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Fact is, I neither like or dislike this pair. It is their behaviour I despise.
And those are only from the first 3 pages of this latest version. Unless one is a racist or bigot who dislikes someone based on their race, ethnicity, religion, etc., it's behavior that dictates if we dislike or like them.
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Old 8th August 2017, 11:34 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
How sick is it for someone who wrote sick rape/murder fantasies and convicted of falsely accusing Patrick Lumumba of the rape and murder she and Raff were found guilty of in the merits trial and appeal (annulled by the Supreme Court on non-legal grounds) to get to write for the LA TIMES about other sick criminals.

As per usual Knox turns the story round to one about herself, so no change to the narcissism there, then.

Interestingly, she also championed the cause of swimmer Brock Turner found 'dry humping' a woman in a coma on public ground.

I suspect Party Rock boyfriend, Chris Robinson, had a hand in helping her to write it and iron out the illiterate grammatical errors and spelling gaffes.

Pretentiously, she writes that whilst Michelle Carter - who urged her boyfriend to kill himself, which he then did - whilst 'morally and philosophically wrong' was 'unlawfully convicted'.

Really?

In which way is it 'philosophically' wrong? Just big words for form over substance. In fact there is plenty of philosophical literature on suicide: Hamlet, The Savage God; The Myth of Sisyphus, and so on and so forth. Who is Amanda Knox to say it is 'philosophically wrong' but not illegal? Someone who writes about her 'best truth' and things her 'head' is 'confusedly' telling her 'in blurry images'.

Fact is, it might be considered 'morally wrong' for someone who is a Christian, but Knox is a rabid atheist who frets she may never become President as she would be unable to swear on the Bible at the inauguration. What planet is this being on?

Legally: unfortunately for Knox suicide or aiding suicide was illegal in many western countries even up until the sixties, with 'assisted suicide' still being unlawful, with some countries, such as Switzerland allowing it for medical reasons in special clinics.

The fact the prosecutor in Carter's case had a criminal statute against her and there was jurisdiction to hear her case, means it cannot have been 'unlawful' to convict her, whether or not you agree with the charge.

How much was Knox paid for leeching off the murder of her roommate? Enquiring minds need to know.

What was LA TIMES thinking?
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post

Fact is, I neither like or dislike this pair. It is their behaviour I despise.
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
You disprove yourself with your own words.
It's kind of a joke isn't it Stacyhs? There are so many made up stretch the truths and outright lies and hatred oozing from Vixen's every sentence.

Amanda didn't write a rape murder fantasy. And what if she had? Stephen King has written countless horror stories depicting hundreds of murders. The horror genre is a popular genre. Was Mary Shelley, Bram Stoker, Edgar Allen Poe, Robert Louis Stevenson,
Peter Straub, Dean Koontz, Thomas Harris, etc and countless other writers sick? One of the most successful movie genres is horror. Hollywood makes more horror films every year than they do rom-coms. And they are especially popular among teenagers and the young.

For anyone to suggest that writing a story no matter how sick or disgusting suggests that the author is sick and disgusting really has a personal problem.

And, I'm sorry, the so called confession that links Patrick to the murder is a joke if you read it. Anyone with a brain wouldn't take it seriously. And the simple fact is that Amanda retracted it within hours.

Then Vixen says Amanda is narcissistic. I can't imagine anyone less narcissistic than Amanda. Not that she doesn't relate other people's experiences to her own. But we all do that.

Then, not showing her hatred Vixens says Amanda needed her boyfriend to correct Amanda's illiterate grammar and spelling gaffes. No, that's not hatred Vixen, That is dishonest lying nonsense. Amanda is a graduate of a prestigious prep school and university. She has written a best selling book and writes a column. She is literate in three languages. She reads and writes in Italian, English and German. It's dumb enough to believe Amanda was involved in the murder of Meredith despite all the evidence but it is a sign of pretty sick hatred to not just think, but to call Amanda illiterate despite the massive evidence to the contrary. I wonder, since you have bragged about being a Mensa member. Is there a section on logic or intellectual honesty?

Then Vixen jumps in to Amanda's op-ed about the suicide texting case as if Amanda really said anything all that controversial. There is significant question about the legality of the guilty verdict.

Then we get to Vixen being absolutely oblivious about atheism and the reasonable complaint atheists have about people discriminating against them because they don't believe in fairy tales?

This is like when Christians opine about homosexuals saying that they don't dislike the sinners, they dislike the sin. No, this is obsessive disgusting hatred. No other word for it.
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Old 8th August 2017, 01:52 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Then Vixen jumps in to Amanda's op-ed about the suicide texting case as if Amanda really said anything all that controversial. There is significant question about the legality of the guilty verdict.
..... which even the convicting judge conceded when granting the stay of sentence.

But why bother with the nuances of the texting/suicide case when it gives an opportunity to say something awful about a random Seattleite author who has an opinion.
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Old 8th August 2017, 03:30 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
..... which even the convicting judge conceded when granting the stay of sentence.

But why bother with the nuances of the texting/suicide case when it gives an opportunity to say something awful about a random Seattleite author who has an opinion.
That seems to be the gist of it. Got to channel that hate somehow. Can't really talk about the case. It's over with and Amanda was exonerated. Yes EXONERATED. Amanda is rightfully free.

But some people need a witch to burn. Maybe it makes them feel better about themselves. Me, I would be ashamed of myself. Especially, given the lessons I was taught in Sunday School. Lying and demeaning someone else aren't exactly Christian values. I was taught he without sin cast the first stone and none are without sin.

Hmmmm. It's ironic that as an atheist I'm a better Christian.
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Old 8th August 2017, 04:09 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
That seems to be the gist of it. Got to channel that hate somehow. Can't really talk about the case. It's over with and Amanda was exonerated. Yes EXONERATED. Amanda is rightfully free.

But some people need a witch to burn. Maybe it makes them feel better about themselves. Me, I would be ashamed of myself. Especially, given the lessons I was taught in Sunday School. Lying and demeaning someone else aren't exactly Christian values. I was taught he without sin cast the first stone and none are without sin.

Hmmmm. It's ironic that as an atheist I'm a better Christian.
So far you and Pope Francis are on the same page. He's said something akin to, it's better to be a moral atheist than an immoral Christian.
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Old 8th August 2017, 05:31 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
So far you and Pope Francis are on the same page. He's said something akin to, it's better to be a moral atheist than an immoral Christian.
And some people are having a hissy fit about Pope Francis. There are conservative Catholics stuck between their loyalty to the church and their hatred for anything liberal. And Francis seems to be taking on the conservative traditions of the church...well sort of. Still haven't heard any reforms to the laity, and letting priests marry. But he definitely is softening the position of the church on divorce.
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Old 8th August 2017, 05:36 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
And some people are having a hissy fit about Pope Francis. There are conservative Catholics stuck between their loyalty to the church and their hatred for anything liberal. And Francis seems to be taking on the conservative traditions of the church...well sort of. Still haven't heard any reforms to the laity, and letting priests marry. But he definitely is softening the position of the church on divorce.
He got an Australian Bishop to attempt to clean up Vatican finances......... that one got interrupted.
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Old 8th August 2017, 06:00 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It's kind of a joke isn't it Stacyhs? There are so many made up stretch the truths and outright lies and hatred oozing from Vixen's every sentence.

Amanda didn't write a rape murder fantasy. And what if she had? Stephen King has written countless horror stories depicting hundreds of murders. The horror genre is a popular genre. Was Mary Shelley, Bram Stoker, Edgar Allen Poe, Robert Louis Stevenson,
Peter Straub, Dean Koontz, Thomas Harris, etc and countless other writers sick? One of the most successful movie genres is horror. Hollywood makes more horror films every year than they do rom-coms. And they are especially popular among teenagers and the young.

For anyone to suggest that writing a story no matter how sick or disgusting suggests that the author is sick and disgusting really has a personal problem.

And, I'm sorry, the so called confession that links Patrick to the murder is a joke if you read it. Anyone with a brain wouldn't take it seriously. And the simple fact is that Amanda retracted it within hours.

Then Vixen says Amanda is narcissistic. I can't imagine anyone less narcissistic than Amanda. Not that she doesn't relate other people's experiences to her own. But we all do that.

Then, not showing her hatred Vixens says Amanda needed her boyfriend to correct Amanda's illiterate grammar and spelling gaffes. No, that's not hatred Vixen, That is dishonest lying nonsense. Amanda is a graduate of a prestigious prep school and university. She has written a best selling book and writes a column. She is literate in three languages. She reads and writes in Italian, English and German. It's dumb enough to believe Amanda was involved in the murder of Meredith despite all the evidence but it is a sign of pretty sick hatred to not just think, but to call Amanda illiterate despite the massive evidence to the contrary. I wonder, since you have bragged about being a Mensa member. Is there a section on logic or intellectual honesty?

Then Vixen jumps in to Amanda's op-ed about the suicide texting case as if Amanda really said anything all that controversial. There is significant question about the legality of the guilty verdict.

Then we get to Vixen being absolutely oblivious about atheism and the reasonable complaint atheists have about people discriminating against them because they don't believe in fairy tales?

This is like when Christians opine about homosexuals saying that they don't dislike the sinners, they dislike the sin. No, this is obsessive disgusting hatred. No other word for it.
When a person sees someone through such a heavy fog of bias, they simply become incapable of seeing or interpreting anything related to that person in a manner other than that which fits their bias. The worst thing about such strong confirmation bias is that the person loses all ability to be objective, knee-jerk reactions become their norm, and they are blind to it all.
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Old 8th August 2017, 07:29 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
When a person sees someone through such a heavy fog of bias, they simply become incapable of seeing or interpreting anything related to that person in a manner other than that which fits their bias. The worst thing about such strong confirmation bias is that the person loses all ability to be objective, knee-jerk reactions become their norm, and they are blind to it all.
Clearly there is a problem. The level of cognitive dissonance is astounding. But it is the justification for turning every mundane act of Amanda's into something deviant, perverted, dirty or stupid is what I can't fathom.

Vixen's every post portrays Amanda as stupid, which clearly Amanda is not. As an oversexed slut when in reality she seems like the average woman. Or finally as a narcissist. I really don't think Vixen understands what a narcissist is because Amanda sure doesn't seem that self absorbed.

I hadn't contributed to this thread in a long time. I thought I was cured of this silliness. Anyway, hi to everyone.
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Old 8th August 2017, 07:38 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Clearly there is a problem. The level of cognitive dissonance is astounding. But it is the justification for turning every mundane act of Amanda's into something deviant, perverted, dirty or stupid is what I can't fathom.

Vixen's every post portrays Amanda as stupid, which clearly Amanda is not. As an oversexed slut when in reality she seems like the average woman. Or finally as a narcissist. I really don't think Vixen understands what a narcissist is because Amanda sure doesn't seem that self absorbed.

I hadn't contributed to this thread in a long time. I thought I was cured of this silliness. Anyway, hi to everyone.
I'd gone through Mignini's submission back in June 2015, such submission meant as the groundwork for a criminal defmation charge against Mairo and Lagana.....

.... which Methos recently reposted.

I've gone through all 65 paragraphs of Mignini's submission - such submission which is stalled in Florence for what I regard as obvious reasons.

But one thing becomes clear about the content of Mignini's submission, when compared to the items that both Vixen and Machiavelli portray here on this thread as factual - their points are almost identical to what Mignini claims about the Kercher case in the submission and why he lost - illegally as he claims, but he lost nonetheless.

Those folks may be confirmation biased, but here they are surrogates for Mignini. They are posting about the Kercher murder trials in a manner that Mignini would if he were here.

I'd not made that connection two years ago. It's almost as if TJMK's webpage were the internet version of Mignini Inc. Mignini lost big in 2011, so much so that the prosecution and appeals were taken from him. In 2015 when Cassation exonerated the pair, Casssation specifically cited the "amnesiac investigation."

In his Submission with regard to the defamation claimed against Maori and Lagana, Mignini relitigates the murder trial(s) which he eventually lost. What we're getting here are the same (by now discredited) arguments by surrogates.
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Old 8th August 2017, 11:25 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
No, they had been found not guilty. They had no reason to believe that the Supreme Court would do something stupid.
But you can argue this point till you're blue in the face. It won't make a difference. It's over and Amanda and Raffaele are making a living commenting on other legal cases and you are posting here and not making a dime.
That's rubbish. It was published before the legal process was completed.

Has Raff or Amanda ever done a day's job in their lives that didn't involve sucking the death of Meredith Kercher dry?
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Old 8th August 2017, 11:26 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
How do you know if she is making royalties and wasn't paid a flat fee? I didn't know that her financial arrangements with Harper Collins had been published. Care to present a cite? Or did you make this up as well?

I don't expect you to. It won't matter. You're making just another fallacious deduction. You don't even know if the original premise is true let alone the deduction. But this isn't a surprise to anyone since we've seen you do it thousands of times.
Because Kulman is credited as the author. Ghostwriters are not, usually.
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Old 9th August 2017, 12:09 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
1) Despising someone's behaviour is, de facto, disliking that person.

2) What exactly is it about Knox's/Sollecito's behaviour that you despise? (in your answer, please bear in mind that: a) Knox and Sollecito were (correctly) acquitted and exonerated by the highest court in Italy; b) there was/is zero credible, reliable evidence that Knox or Sollecito participated in the Kercher murder; c) it is, in fact, highly probable that neither Knox nor Sollecito participated in Kercher's murder; d) all of the known evidence is, in fact, entirely compatible with Guede acting alone (and there is solid, safe evidence to prove Guede's guilt beyond all reasonable doubt)).

Thanks in advance for your considered reply.

I dislike the following conduct:

1. Accusing a completely innocent man of the rape and murder and falsely claiming to be **** scared of him.

2. Being present at the murder scene - FACT - and failing to summon any kind of help.

3. Lying and obstructing the police in their investigation.

4. Raff refusing to testify.

5. Knox' frivolous behaviour in court (cf the Manson girls).

6. Defiance.

7. Touring the country claiming to be 'exonerated' and 'wrongly imprisoned for four years' when Knox received a fair three-year sentence for no.1 above.

8. Profiting from Meredith's murder whilst Marasca clearly writes Knox had Mez' blood on her hands.

Unlike you, I am not prone to hero-worship or infatuation.
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Old 9th August 2017, 12:15 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
There's a Google alert for us PIP? Darn! Why was I never informed of this? I'm sending off a letter of protest immediately to Gogerty-Marriott and cc'ing Bruce Fisher. Thanks for letting me know, Vix!

"The kids"? For someone who has a conniption fit when Amanda is referred to as a "kid" at the time of the murder, you do like to use the term yourself.

Citation please for your claim that Knox said the police "framed them". She has said they had tunnel vision, bias, and the investigation was incredibly incompetent...as did the Supreme Court... but she has never said she was "framed".

You "don't dislike the pair"? The multitude of posts you have made denigrating both, but Knox especially, on a personal level very clearly show otherwise. Would you like me to quote some here?

Unlike you, it seems, I am not governed by base instincts. I don't have any personal feelings towards the pair one way or the other. I would just like to see justice. Amanda Knox is deluding herself if she believes Mignini has any personal vendetta at all.

As for the term, 'kids' you have been told many times I am simply talking down to the PIP's level of terminology.
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Old 9th August 2017, 12:16 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
"Linda Kulman

I am a journalist, writer, editor, and the author, most recently, of Teaching Common Sense: The Grand Strategy Program at Yale University about one of Yale’s best-known and most sought-after courses. Based on several years of onsite reporting, archival research, interviews with students and faculty, and original survey data, Teaching Common Sense looks at “Studies in Grand Strategy,” a year-long, by-application leadership seminar. The course addresses some of higher education’s bedrock question, such as how is critical thinking taught and how will this generation learn to cope with uncertainty in a fast-changing world.

I have collaborated on seven nonfiction books, working successfully with a group of diverse, demanding personalities to tell their personal, and sometimes painful, stories. These include Amanda Knox’s New York Times bestselling memoir, Waiting to be Heard; Hillary Clinton’s Dear Socks, Dear Buddy: Kids’ Letters to the First Pets, written while she was First Lady; New York Governor Andrew Cuomo’s All Things Possible: Setbacks and Success in Politics and Life; George McGovern’s What It Means to Be a Democrat; George Foreman’s Guide to Life: How to Get Up Off the Canvas When Life Knocks You Down; and James Carville’s We’re Right, They’re Wrong. Each of these projects required me to become an expert on a nuanced topic, whether on the Italian legal system, the root causes of homelessness, heavyweight wrestling, the history of pets in the White House, or gun safety reform. ...."

Source: http://branford.yalecollege.yale.edu/linda-kulman

Collaborator: a person who works jointly on an activity or project; an associate.

Source: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/de...n/collaborator
Exactly. If she was not getting paid and credited as the author, she would not be allowed to mention this at all.
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Old 9th August 2017, 12:40 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I dislike the following conduct:

1. Accusing a completely innocent man of the rape and murder and falsely claiming to be **** scared of him.

2. Being present at the murder scene - FACT - and failing to summon any kind of help.

3. Lying and obstructing the police in their investigation.

4. Raff refusing to testify.

5. Knox' frivolous behaviour in court (cf the Manson girls).

6. Defiance.

7. Touring the country claiming to be 'exonerated' and 'wrongly imprisoned for four years' when Knox received a fair three-year sentence for no.1 above.

8. Profiting from Meredith's murder whilst Marasca clearly writes Knox had Mez' blood on her hands.

Unlike you, I am not prone to hero-worship or infatuation.


Aside from all the nonsense in the body of this post....

Please provide credible, reliable evidence that I am "prone to hero-worship or infatuation". Or withdraw that (baseless) accusation. Thanks in advance.
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Old 9th August 2017, 12:43 AM   #390
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Exactly. If she was not getting paid and credited as the author, she would not be allowed to mention this at all.

Why do you appear unable to understand the difference between "the author" of a book (per your unsupported claim) and "an author" of (or "a contributor to") a book?
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Old 9th August 2017, 12:50 AM   #391
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Because Kulman is credited as the author. Ghostwriters are not, usually.

You have zero understanding of how ghostwriting works. Even where a ghostwriter gets no writing credit anywhere in the published work, it's very usual that such a ghostwriter will be receiving a percentage of royalties - especially if the named author is a bankable celebrity with an agent and a publishing deal in place:


3. Do you work on a shared royalties (profit share) basis with celebrities?

Yes – particularly if a celebrity already has an agent/publisher in place. Because celebrity books are easier to sell, it’s much less risky for us to work on a shared royalties basis. However, we do ask any expenses such as hotel rooms for interviews are covered, and that a one-off payment of £2000 is made (which will be deducted from book sales) to help sustain the writer while the book is being written. The shared royalties split varies from book to book – please talk to us for an exact figure.


http://ghostwritingcompany.co.uk/ghostwriterfaq/


Please don't pretend to have knowledge of things that, in fact, you have next to no knowledge about.
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Old 9th August 2017, 04:23 AM   #392
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Clearly there is a problem. The level of cognitive dissonance is astounding. But it is the justification for turning every mundane act of Amanda's into something deviant, perverted, dirty or stupid is what I can't fathom.

Vixen's every post portrays Amanda as stupid, which clearly Amanda is not. As an oversexed slut when in reality she seems like the average woman. Or finally as a narcissist. I really don't think Vixen understands what a narcissist is because Amanda sure doesn't seem that self absorbed.

I hadn't contributed to this thread in a long time. I thought I was cured of this silliness. Anyway, hi to everyone.
People who believe that someone's DNA being found in their own bathroom is incriminating are not in a position to accuse people of being stupid.
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Old 9th August 2017, 06:37 AM   #393
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Originally Posted by acbytesla;11948007[HILITE
]I doubt it has anything to do with ignorance.[/hilite] I'm sure that Vixen understands what an editor does. The facts are secondary to posting an incendiary remark about Amanda. The remark about grammar and spelling is without foundation. I have yet to read anything by Amanda that would lead anyone to come to the conclusion that either pose an issue.

Now maybe the reason for this is as as a professional writer, Amanda's work is submitted to an editor that proofs her work before it is published or that she is good at what she does. The point is that there is no way for anyone other than Amanda or her editor who knows.

Which leads to the question why pretend you know something that you KNOW you DON'T?
It is, at least in part, either real or pretended ignorance. See the PGP comments that a "collaborator" on a book is necessarily an author or co-author.

There are, for example, typically several editors with different functions, for books published by established publishing companies. All the editors many be considered collaborators on the book. Authors also may hire editors or get help from friends or colleagues in shaping their works.

"The editing process often begins with the author's idea for the work itself, continuing as a collaboration between the author and the editor as the work is created. As such, editing can involve creative skills, human relations and a precise set of methods.

There are various editorial positions in publishing. Typically, one finds editorial assistants reporting to the senior-level editorial staff and directors who report to senior executive editors. Senior executive editors are responsible for developing a product for its final release. The smaller the publication, the more these roles overlap."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editing
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Old 9th August 2017, 07:24 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
2. Being present at the murder scene - FACT - and failing to summon any kind of help.

8. Profiting from Meredith's murder whilst Marasca clearly writes Knox had Mez' Meredith's blood on her hands.
This. Is. Not. True. And. You. Know. It's. Not. True. If it had not been for Knox and Sollecito, the victim would not have been found for days.

You. Also. Never. Cite. What. The. Court. Actually. Said. Here. It. Is. (But you did render the word "fact" in all caps, so that must have made what you said a fact):
Quote:
Nevertheless, even if attribution (of Knox rubbing blood from her hands) is certain, the trial element would not be
unequivocal as a demonstration of posthumous contact with that blood, as a likely
attempt to remove the most blatant traces of what had happened, perhaps to help
someone or deflect suspicion from herself, without this entailing her certain direct
involvement in the murder. Any further and more meaningful value would be, in fact,
resisted by the fact - which is decisive - that no trace leading to her was found at the
scene of the crime or on the victim’s body, so that - if all the above is accepted - her
contact with the victim’s blood would have occurred after the crime and in another
part of the house.
Indeed, Raffaele and Amanda actually did call around, including a call to the 112 Carabinieri - before the arrival of the postal police (as per the 2010 Massei report).

No one knew what help needed to be rendered before the door was broken down (except for the murderer Rudy Guede) who had left the victim to bleed out the night before.

You have been asked umpteen times to present the forensic-evidence behind your repetitious-claim. There is a reason why you cannot provide it - the Massei report in 2010 said there was no forensics to back the claim.
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Old 9th August 2017, 07:49 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
That's rubbish. It was published before the legal process was completed.

Has Raff or Amanda ever done a day's job in their lives that didn't involve sucking the death of Meredith Kercher dry?
I find it interesting that you would describe Amanda's career as a writer as sucking the death of Meredith Kercher dry since I recall you saying that you were assisting in compiling that joke of a book about the case. I also didn't see you complaining about how much all the money that other writers made from this tragedy.

Stop being a hypocrite. If anyone should profit from this tragedy, it should be the two people who WRONGLY were in prison for FOUR YEARS! And Raffaele and his family paid millions of dollars for his exoneration that will take years to get back.

But let's examine your idiotic and wrong statement. Amanda has been writing a column in Seattle that 95 percent of the time never mentions anything to do with Italy. Amanda reviews movies, plays, concerts and writes about Seattle. How is that as you said 'sucking the death of Meredith Kercher dry'?

Only someone with a sick obsessive perspective would describe that as something untoward. They really need to get help. Like it or not, Amanda and Raffaele are making lemonade out of lemons. Get over it.
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Old 9th August 2017, 09:08 AM   #396
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
There's a Google alert for us PIP? Darn! Why was I never informed of this? I'm sending off a letter of protest immediately to Gogerty-Marriott and cc'ing Bruce Fisher. Thanks for letting me know, Vix!

"The kids"? For someone who has a conniption fit when Amanda is referred to as a "kid" at the time of the murder, you do like to use the term yourself.

Citation please for your claim that Knox said the police "framed them". She has said they had tunnel vision, bias, and the investigation was incredibly incompetent...as did the Supreme Court... but she has never said she was "framed".

You "don't dislike the pair"? The multitude of posts you have made denigrating both, but Knox especially, on a personal level very clearly show otherwise. Would you like me to quote some here?
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Unlike you, it seems, I am not governed by base instincts. I don't have any personal feelings towards the pair one way or the other. I would just like to see justice. Amanda Knox is deludYing herself if she believes Mignini has any personal vendetta at all.

As for the term, 'kids' you have been told many times I am simply talking down to the PIP's level of terminology.
What I see is so many PGP motivated by intense dislike that comes dangerously close to blind hatred. To claim "I don't have any personal feelings towards the pair one way or the other" is constantly belied by your posts...a few of which I have provided. Constant personal disparaging remarks about Knox, and to a lesser extent Sollecito, do not indicate the absence of personal feelings about them. To the contrary, they are strong evidence of intense personal feelings.

The fact that some PGP are still attacking Amanda and Raffaele with insulting and disparaging remarks about anything and everything they do almost 2.5 years after they were definitively acquitted, indicates not a lust for justice but one of vengeance.

As for Amanda deluding herself about Mignini's personal motives, once again you are presuming to know what someone else thinks or feels. You have no idea what Mignini's personal feelings about Amanda are. You are not privy to his personal thoughts, are you?

Since no one here refers to Knox and Sollecito as "the kids", your excuse for continuing to refer to them as such holds no merit. I suspect you use it for the same reason you continue to refer to Meredith as "Mez".

And I'm still waiting for a citation that Amanda has ever claimed the "police framed" her. As the saying goes: put up or shut up.
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Old 9th August 2017, 09:21 AM   #397
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Originally Posted by Welshman View Post
People who believe that someone's DNA being found in their own bathroom is incriminating are not in a position to accuse people of being stupid.
Nor are people who claim TMB negative means blood is still present, that a knife could be so well cleaned that not a trace of blood remained yet the DNA of the victim survived in a scratch that could never, ever be found by any other expert, that a rock (excuse me, a "boulder" of nine lbs.) could not be thrown across a 6 foot space by a grown man, that a young, agile,athletic man could not access a second story window, and that a person who physically participates in a brutal and close-up rape/stabbing murder that left blood all over the floor could somehow leave not a trace of herself behind unlike the "other" killer.

Mind boggling, ain't it?
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Old 9th August 2017, 09:24 AM   #398
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Because Kulman is credited as the author. Ghostwriters are not, usually.
Except Kulman is NOT credited as the author. Do you even have the book? Can you identify anywhere in or on the book where Kulman is even mentioned? Can you find any review of the book where Kulman is credited with anything more than "providing assistance"?

You were told this before and yet you continue to repeat this lie. Are you this dishonest in all aspects of your life or only on matters pertaining to this case?
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Old 9th August 2017, 09:30 AM   #399
Stacyhs
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In the "author's notes" page in the back of "Waiting to be Heard", Amanda writes this:

" I wouldn't have been able to write this memoir without Linda Kulman. Somehow, with her Post-it Notes and questions, with her generosity, dedication, and empathy, she turned my rambling into writing, and taught me so much in the meantime. I am grateful to her family-Ralph, Sam, Julia- for sharing her with me for so long."

Amanda, who has a degree in Creative Writing, did not need Kulman to write her book for her. She needed someone to help her organize and refine it. But, of course, when one needs to disparage and belittle anything and everything Knox related, this cannot be acknowledged. No. That would just never do.
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Old 9th August 2017, 09:37 AM   #400
TruthCalls
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I find it interesting that you would describe Amanda's career as a writer as sucking the death of Meredith Kercher dry since I recall you saying that you were assisting in compiling that joke of a book about the case. I also didn't see you complaining about how much all the money that other writers made from this tragedy.

Stop being a hypocrite. If anyone should profit from this tragedy, it should be the two people who WRONGLY were in prison for FOUR YEARS! And Raffaele and his family paid millions of dollars for his exoneration that will take years to get back.

But let's examine your idiotic and wrong statement. Amanda has been writing a column in Seattle that 95 percent of the time never mentions anything to do with Italy. Amanda reviews movies, plays, concerts and writes about Seattle. How is that as you said 'sucking the death of Meredith Kercher dry'?

Only someone with a sick obsessive perspective would describe that as something untoward. They really need to get help. Like it or not, Amanda and Raffaele are making lemonade out of lemons. Get over it.
To add to this; Amanda is investing a significant amount of her own time speaking to others about wrongful convictions in the hopes of educating people about the problem. While her background which makes her something of an expert in this area is a result of her own wrongful conviction for Meredith's murder, it is only a reference used to help educate people on how such injustices occur. She should be commended for her efforts.
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