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Tags Amanda Knox , Italy cases , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

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Old 5th August 2017, 03:32 AM   #281
LondonJohn
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Anti-suicide is a Christian thing is it not? In my local church, suicides (and strangely, murder victims and fallen 'Reds') are buried to one side separate from the rest of the dear departed congregation.

I have no idea what other religions believe but I know Albert Camus was quite sympathetic to the idea.

Ummmm

Well, the matter of suicide (and whether it's morally correct, or anti-Christian, or whatever) was not the matter at hand. The matter at hand was the persuasion of a third party for a person to kill himself, and whether THAT was morally correct (or anti-Christian, or whatever). So at a stroke, this renders what you've written above totally moot and irrelevant anyhow.

So, with that in mind, pray tell us again why you think Knox is not "authorised" to comment on the moral and legal issues around one person urging another person to kill himself. And this time, please stick to the matter at hand. Thanks in advance.
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Old 5th August 2017, 03:34 AM   #282
LondonJohn
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
As I'm not as obsessive about Ms Knox as some people apparently are, I was unaware of her championing the cause of Brock Turner, which I found rather surprising. So I went looking for what she'd written about the case. It's this, in case anybody else here didn't know:

https://www.westsideseattle.com/west...irecting-focus

I'll let you read it for yourself and decide if you think "championing the cause of Brock Turner" is what this article actually does.


Oh yes, I remembered this already. But I - and many others, I suspect - am utterly weary of highlighting the near-constant acts of wilful hyperbole, vindictive misinterpretation, and flat-out dissembling, which characterises so much of this anti-Knox/anti-Sollecito bilge.
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Old 5th August 2017, 06:53 AM   #283
TruthCalls
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
No, bagels, Amanda Knox did it all by herself and probably relishes her infamy.
No, Vixen, Amanda had nothing to do with it. The keystone kops of Perugia falsely accused her of a crime, sensationalized it with unsubstantiated claims of ritualistic killings and sex games gone wrong, and the media - especially the tabloids - went and ran with it. Then there are the countless authors, on both sides of the fence, who wrote books on the case and who always focused the story on Amanda. By the time Amanda was released from prison and came home she was an international sensation. None of it by her own hand.

Once again you pretend to know what others are thinking. My guess is she would gladly trade in any notoriety she may have to get the past almost ten years of her life back.
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Old 5th August 2017, 07:15 AM   #284
TruthCalls
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
As I'm not as obsessive about Ms Knox as some people apparently are, I was unaware of her championing the cause of Brock Turner, which I found rather surprising. So I went looking for what she'd written about the case. It's this, in case anybody else here didn't know:

https://www.westsideseattle.com/west...irecting-focus

I'll let you read it for yourself and decide if you think "championing the cause of Brock Turner" is what this article actually does.
Likewise, I suggest people read her short story "Baby Brother" and see if they think this is someone fantasizing about rape.
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Old 5th August 2017, 07:16 AM   #285
Welshman
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Citations) for the highlighted part?

I believe you are referring to the DVD made by the independent experts showing the collection of evidence by the police and errors therein. I can find no evidence that it was 1) made for the defense's eyes only or 2) Vecchiotti was almost arrested by the carabinieri, 3) she appealed to Hellmann or 4) Hellmann, as a result of this appeal, ordered a copy made for the court and prosecution.

What I did find was that 1) the DVD was appropriately filed with the Perugia Court of Appeals, 2) that the carabinieri were sent by the prosecution to seize the DNA from Vecchiotti but could not as they had no warrant to do so, and 3) that the prosecutor applied to get a copy of the DVD from Hellmann and he granted it.


http://www.umbrialeft.it/notizie/mer...la-scientifica



MEREDITH MURDER: THE SCIENTIFIC BRANCH DVD OF IMAGES USED BY EXPERTS LODGED

http://www.libero-news.it/news/79207...ai-periti.html


Your spin on this was very misleading. Police did not "almost arrest" Vecchiotti nor was she colluding with the defense. The police tried to seize the DVD without a warrant for it. She was not "forced" to give a copy to the prosecutor; the prosecutor requested a copy and it was granted by Hellmann.

Once again: Citation(s) for the highlighted part?
Vixen constantly bangs on about Amanda and Raffaele telling umpteen lies and PGP spread malicious lies that C&V have made a DVD that was only available to the defence when in reality this DVD was available to all parties. PGP scream corruption because C&V were in contact with the defence whilst slavishly defending corrupt police/prosecutors who did not the tape the interrogations of Amanda and Raffaele, denied Amanda and Raffaele access to lawyers, did not tell them their rights, destroyed evidence, engaged in the massive suppression of evidence, fed false information to the media, committed perjury and lied to Amanda she had HIV as detailed in the links below. PGP attack C&V for witholding evidence but had no problem with the prosecution withholding evidence on a massive scale. Are PGP deliberately trying to be as hypocritical as possible when they write their posts.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/raffaeles-kitchen-knife/
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/contam...bwork-coverup/
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/meredi...ry-corruption/
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/evidence-destroyed/
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/blood-...irs-apartment/
https://knoxsollecito.wordpress.com/...ele-sollecito/
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/myths.html
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Old 5th August 2017, 08:08 AM   #286
Bill Williams
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
How sick is it for someone who wrote sick rape/murder fantasies and convicted of falsely accusing Patrick Lumumba of the rape and murder she and Raff were found guilty of in the merits trial and appeal (annulled by the Supreme Court on non-legal grounds) to get to write for the LA TIMES about other sick criminals.

As per usual Knox turns the story round to one about herself, so no change to the narcissism there, then.

Interestingly, she also championed the cause of swimmer Brock Turner found 'dry humping' a woman in a coma on public ground.

I suspect Party Rock boyfriend, Chris Robinson, had a hand in helping her to write it and iron out the illiterate grammatical errors and spelling gaffes.

Pretentiously, she writes that whilst Michelle Carter - who urged her boyfriend to kill himself, which he then did - whilst 'morally and philosophically wrong' was 'unlawfully convicted'.

Really?

In which way is it 'philosophically' wrong? Just big words for form over substance. In fact there is plenty of philosophical literature on suicide: Hamlet, The Savage God; The Myth of Sisyphus, and so on and so forth. Who is Amanda Knox to say it is 'philosophically wrong' but not illegal? Someone who writes about her 'best truth' and things her 'head' is 'confusedly' telling her 'in blurry images'.

Fact is, it might be considered 'morally wrong' for someone who is a Christian, but Knox is a rabid atheist who frets she may never become President as she would be unable to swear on the Bible at the inauguration. What planet is this being on?

Legally: unfortunately for Knox suicide or aiding suicide was illegal in many western countries even up until the sixties, with 'assisted suicide' still being unlawful, with some countries, such as Switzerland allowing it for medical reasons in special clinics.

The fact the prosecutor in Carter's case had a criminal statute against her and there was jurisdiction to hear her case, means it cannot have been 'unlawful' to convict her, whether or not you agree with the charge.

How much was Knox paid for leeching off the murder of her roommate? Enquiring minds need to know.

What was LA TIMES thinking?
This post is obsessed.
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Old 5th August 2017, 08:37 AM   #287
Bill Williams
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Pretentiously, she writes that whilst Michelle Carter - who urged her boyfriend to kill himself, which he then did - whilst 'morally and philosophically wrong' was 'unlawfully convicted'.

Really?
For heavens' sake, Vixen, your urge to spread bile about Amanda Knox clouds your postings. It is clear you have not followed the text-suicide case in Massachusetts.

Do you know who agrees with Knox that this might be a case of an "unlawful conviction"? Wait for it, and I can put it in large red letters if you need it presented that way.....

The convicting judge. Read that again, Vixen, "the convicting judge".

In a rare judicial move, the convicting judge (did I mention that he'd been the convicting judge!?) granted a stay on the implementation of the 2 1/2 year sentence because he considered it reasonable that.....

..... his own conviction of the woman could be reasonably heard by an appellate court on 1st Amendment grounds. Obviously the convicting (did I mention he'd been the convicting?) judge acknowledged that the appeal grounds were so reasonable that the woman could have served the full term of her sentence before the appeals process had played out. So in a rare move he granted the defence motion for a stay on sentence.

Of course, the convicting judge would disagree with Amanda Knox's LATimes OpEd. Of course he would. But he would also agree that it was a reasonable opinion to hold, that down the road his decision might be rendered "unlawful", and reversed.

Unfortunately your venom aimed at some random Seattleite who (through her own experience) has an opinion, blinds you to say silly things. You claim to know the inner thoughts and motives of people. You claim to know that Knox's sig-oth actually penned the LATimes OpEd, with nothing other than your own vindictiveness as "proof".

Do you believe that you are converting reasonable people to your view of things by doing this?
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Old 5th August 2017, 08:55 AM   #288
Bill Williams
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Originally Posted by Vixen
What was LA TIMES thinking?
What was Dr. Peter Gill thinking?
What was Drs Conti and Vecchiotti thinking?
What was The University of Windsor Law School thinking?
What was The Kentucky Bar Association thinking?
What was Harper Collins thinking?
What was The Supreme Court of Italy thinking?
What was The Westside Bar Association thinking?
What was Steve Moore thinking?
What was ABC Television thinking?
What was Judge Boninsegna thinking?
What were Judges Hellmann and Zanetti thinking?
What was Ron Hendry thinking?
What was the USA-Italy Friendship Association thinking?
What was Saul Kassin thinking?
What were Judges Guardiano, Pistorelli, Positano, Bruno, and Marasca thinking?
What was Candace Dempsey thinking?
What was Wladmiro De Nunzio thinking?
What was Rolling Stone Magazine thinking?
What was NetFlix thinking?
What was The New York Times thinking?
What was Senator Cantwell thinking?

There are more. My fingers are cramping.....
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Old 5th August 2017, 01:13 PM   #289
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Do read the deposition filed against Raff's attorney Maori.

During a live ongoing trial barristers are not supposed to meet with court appointed expert witnesses because it contravenes bar standards.

Vecchiotti even commissioned a DVD for the defence eyes' only and was almost arrested by the carabonieri carabinieri. She appealed to Hellmann, the judge in the relevant case, and even he ordered her to make a copy for the court and for the prosecution. Can you not see how bent it is for a court appointed witness to collude with one party?

The standard protocol during a trial - especially when that court appointed witness (or any witness) is giving their testimony - is that ALL exchanges MUST be in front of the other party and of the court. It's called 'disclosure'.

Maori wining and dining Conti & Vecchiotti during the hearing is a clear breach of ethics and bar standards.
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
LOL Your very own Candace Dempsey.

ROFLMAO Even the PIP find her writing trashy.
Why do I not find it surprising that you provide a link that you think supports your claim when, in fact, it doesn't?

Please quote where Dempsey says or even implies that

1) Vecchiotti even commissioned a DVD for the defence eyes' only

or that Vecchiotti

2) was almost arrested by the carabonieri carabinieri.

Hint: she doesn't.

"She appealed to Hellmann, the judge in the relevant case, and even he ordered her to make a copy for the court and for the prosecution, " is a misleading spin on what Dempsey actually wrote. Vecchiotti didn't "appeal" to Hellmann; she called him to find out if she should or could give the cops a copy as they had no warrant. What the police were attempting was illegal as they tried to seize property they had no legal right to. Your use of "even he ordered her to make a copy implies that a copy had already been ordered made for the police and Vecchiotti had not complied. That is false. Hellmann ordered a copy made because the prosecution requested it.

Quote:
Can you not see how bent it is for a court appointed witness to collude with one party
You have failed to provide any evidence that the DVD was ever made "for the defense's eyes only" or that the defense had even seen the DVD before it was played by Vecchiotti in court the previous day...when everyone else saw it. Your claim of collusion is thereby totally unsupported by any evidence.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 5th August 2017 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 5th August 2017, 01:28 PM   #290
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The Murder of Meredith Kercher webpage was updated fairly recently with a whole batchload more court documents and transcripts.

It is an excellent library of source material for journalists, lawyers and anybody interested in the facts of the case and not the grotesque Trumpesque circus spin on it we get from the US fake media and the PIP.
I have always acknowledged that TMofMK is excellent as far as their library of court documents and transcripts. However, the trouble with the site, and where they fall prey to their own guilty bias, is when they resort to giving their own interpretations of evidence, events, forensics, etc. I've given some examples in my earlier post such as their statement that there was "mixed blood, Amanda's footprints in Meredith' blood, a woman's size 37 shoeprint in blood, Meredith's DNA on the knife was definitive, that luminol established that someone with blood on their feet walked between the two rooms."
This is where TMofMK falls down big time.
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Old 5th August 2017, 02:09 PM   #291
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
How sick is it for someone who wrote sick rape/murder fantasies and convicted of falsely accusing Patrick Lumumba of the rape and murder she and Raff were found guilty of in the merits trial and appeal (annulled by the Supreme Court on non-legal grounds) to get to write for the LA TIMES about other sick criminals.

As per usual Knox turns the story round to one about herself, so no change to the narcissism there, then.

Interestingly, she also championed the cause of swimmer Brock Turner found 'dry humping' a woman in a coma on public ground.

I suspect Party Rock boyfriend, Chris Robinson, had a hand in helping her to write it and iron out the illiterate grammatical errors and spelling gaffes.

Pretentiously, she writes that whilst Michelle Carter - who urged her boyfriend to kill himself, which he then did - whilst 'morally and philosophically wrong' was 'unlawfully convicted'.

Really?

In which way is it 'philosophically' wrong? Just big words for form over substance. In fact there is plenty of philosophical literature on suicide: Hamlet, The Savage God; The Myth of Sisyphus, and so on and so forth. Who is Amanda Knox to say it is 'philosophically wrong' but not illegal? Someone who writes about her 'best truth' and things her 'head' is 'confusedly' telling her 'in blurry images'.

Fact is, it might be considered 'morally wrong' for someone who is a Christian, but Knox is a rabid atheist who frets she may never become President as she would be unable to swear on the Bible at the inauguration. What planet is this being on?Legally: unfortunately for Knox suicide or aiding suicide was illegal in many western countries even up until the sixties, with 'assisted suicide' still being unlawful, with some countries, such as Switzerland allowing it for medical reasons in special clinics.

The fact the prosecutor in Carter's case had a criminal statute against her and there was jurisdiction to hear her case, means it cannot have been 'unlawful' to convict her, whether or not you agree with the charge.

How much was Knox paid for leeching off the murder of her roommate? Enquiring minds need to know.

What was LA TIMES thinking?
Highlight 1: How many times must it be proved that Knox did not write "sick rape/murder fantasies" before this lie stops being repeated?

No one was murdered in either of Knox's short stories. Baby Brother was an anti-rape story, not a "rape/murder fantasy" and My Love was about guilt at leaving a girl in a situation where she was later hurt in an unspecified way, most likely drugs. No rape or murder in that one at all.

Highlight 2: What is a "rabid" atheist exactly and how does Amanda qualify as a "rabid" atheist? Does this require foaming at the mouth and ranting on about how wrong people of faith are? Or perhaps trying to get legislation passed to restrict the freedom of and practice of religion? Or perhaps writing anti-religious books or articles? Does she participate in lynchings of the faithful? As for her "fretting" about never becoming president, she really has nothing to fear because swearing on the Bible is a tradition, not a requirement. It is no more required than swearing on the Bible in a court of law.

What I find truly sick is the need for some people to disparage Knox at every opportunity, not on the specifics of the case, but on her personally. Attacks on her grammar, spelling, atheism, her parents, her sisters, her boyfriends, how she dresses, her Halloween costumes, etc. are what is "sick". The internet is just chock full o' nuts. We see them crawling out from under the floorboards on almost any site where Knox is mentioned. Truly fascinating from a psychological viewpoint.
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Old 5th August 2017, 02:45 PM   #292
Bill Williams
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I have always acknowledged that TMofMK is excellent as far as their library of court documents and transcripts. However, the trouble with the site, and where they fall prey to their own guilty bias, is when they resort to giving their own interpretations of evidence, events, forensics, etc. I've given some examples in my earlier post such as their statement that there was "mixed blood, Amanda's footprints in Meredith' blood, a woman's size 37 shoeprint in blood, Meredith's DNA on the knife was definitive, that luminol established that someone with blood on their feet walked between the two rooms."

This is where TMofMK falls down big time.
Originally Posted by Stacyhs
Highlight 1: How many times must it be proved that Knox did not write "sick rape/murder fantasies" before this lie stops being repeated?
Those two things. Describe the issue with them. In a nutshell.

Aside from the raw data the fake-Wiki possesses, the people surrounding it have also provided fairly decent translations into English. (I love it when giving an English language quote from one of their efforts, only to be told that that had been a pro-innocence-biased translation!) The "fake" part of the term "fake-Wiki" does not apply to raw sources or to translations - except when Vixen herself photoshops Fr. 72 as being on the inside edge of the victim's door and then claims TMoMK wiki as her source! (However, that is one that they, and Vixen, have since amended and corrected correctly.)

But it is as you say. Their interpretations of their very own stuff leaves a lot to be desired. The "mixed-blood" meme is perhaps the canary in the mine to judge them; it also used to be the "did Raffaele call 112 before or after the arrivals of the postal police?" meme.

All that effort to acquire raw sources, and the malarky continues.
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Old 5th August 2017, 03:11 PM   #293
TruthCalls
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Highlight 1: How many times must it be proved that Knox did not write "sick rape/murder fantasies" before this lie stops being repeated?

No one was murdered in either of Knox's short stories. Baby Brother was an anti-rape story, not a "rape/murder fantasy" and My Love was about guilt at leaving a girl in a situation where she was later hurt in an unspecified way, most likely drugs. No rape or murder in that one at all.

Highlight 2: What is a "rabid" atheist exactly and how does Amanda qualify as a "rabid" atheist? Does this require foaming at the mouth and ranting on about how wrong people of faith are? Or perhaps trying to get legislation passed to restrict the freedom of and practice of religion? Or perhaps writing anti-religious books or articles? Does she participate in lynchings of the faithful? As for her "fretting" about never becoming president, she really has nothing to fear because swearing on the Bible is a tradition, not a requirement. It is no more required than swearing on the Bible in a court of law.

What I find truly sick is the need for some people to disparage Knox at every opportunity, not on the specifics of the case, but on her personally. Attacks on her grammar, spelling, atheism, her parents, her sisters, her boyfriends, how she dresses, her Halloween costumes, etc. are what is "sick". The internet is just chock full o' nuts. We see them crawling out from under the floorboards on almost any site where Knox is mentioned. Truly fascinating from a psychological viewpoint.
Stacy, I'm surprised you didn't jump on this line;

"...she and Raff were found guilty of in the merits trial and appeal (annulled by the Supreme Court on non-legal grounds)"

As many times as we remind Vixen that they were also acquitted by an Appeals court she always manages to forget that in her rhetoric. And as for the acquittal by the Supreme Court, I'm pretty sure if the Supreme Court had done something illegal we'd have heard about it by now. However, aside from a few diehard PGP, no one has ever suggested there was anything inappropriate with the court's ruling. Vixen, who 'pretentiously' claims to be offended by 'all of Amanda's lies' continues to repeat this most blatant of lies.

The question remains.. why must the PGP continue to spread lies so long after the case was finalized. This truly does border on psychotic behavior.
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Old 5th August 2017, 03:29 PM   #294
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
Stacy, I'm surprised you didn't jump on this line;

"...she and Raff were found guilty of in the merits trial and appeal (annulled by the Supreme Court on non-legal grounds)"

As many times as we remind Vixen that they were also acquitted by an Appeals court she always manages to forget that in her rhetoric. And as for the acquittal by the Supreme Court, I'm pretty sure if the Supreme Court had done something illegal we'd have heard about it by now. However, aside from a few diehard PGP, no one has ever suggested there was anything inappropriate with the court's ruling. Vixen, who 'pretentiously' claims to be offended by 'all of Amanda's lies' continues to repeat this most blatant of lies.

The question remains.. why must the PGP continue to spread lies so long after the case was finalized. This truly does border on psychotic behavior.
There are only so many hours in the day, TruthCalls!. If I had to correct every misleading, partially false or completely false statement proffered, I'd be here 24/7. It takes a fraction of the time to make a false or misleading claim than it does to refute it with evidence. I suspect that's why so many false and misleading claims are made; they bank on us not putting in the time or effort to disprove them. But one would think some people would know this group of us better by now...

As for the 2015 Supreme Court ruling being overturned for being illegal, it's coming any day now. Any day!

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Old 5th August 2017, 05:22 PM   #295
Stacyhs
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Amanda Knox has replied to the criticism she has received from her op-ed on Michelle Carter. Although I disagree with her regarding her original op-ed, she has written a well thought out and compassionate follow-up. As I read it, I couldn't help but think of several PGPs' I've come across the last almost 10 years.
https://www.westsideseattle.com/ball...ichelle-carter
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Old 5th August 2017, 09:28 PM   #296
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
How sick is it for someone who wrote sick rape/murder fantasies and convicted of falsely accusing Patrick Lumumba of the rape and murder she and Raff were found guilty of in the merits trial and appeal (annulled by the Supreme Court on non-legal grounds) to get to write for the LA TIMES about other sick criminals.

As per usual Knox turns the story round to one about herself, so no change to the narcissism there, then.

Interestingly, she also championed the cause of swimmer Brock Turner found 'dry humping' a woman in a coma on public ground.

I suspect Party Rock boyfriend, Chris Robinson, had a hand in helping her to write it and iron out the illiterate grammatical errors and spelling gaffes.

Pretentiously, she writes that whilst Michelle Carter - who urged her boyfriend to kill himself, which he then did - whilst 'morally and philosophically wrong' was 'unlawfully convicted'.

Really?

In which way is it 'philosophically' wrong? Just big words for form over substance. In fact there is plenty of philosophical literature on suicide: Hamlet, The Savage God; The Myth of Sisyphus, and so on and so forth. Who is Amanda Knox to say it is 'philosophically wrong' but not illegal? Someone who writes about her 'best truth' and things her 'head' is 'confusedly' telling her 'in blurry images'.

Fact is, it might be considered 'morally wrong' for someone who is a Christian, but Knox is a rabid atheist who frets she may never become President as she would be unable to swear on the Bible at the inauguration. What planet is this being on?

Legally: unfortunately for Knox suicide or aiding suicide was illegal in many western countries even up until the sixties, with 'assisted suicide' still being unlawful, with some countries, such as Switzerland allowing it for medical reasons in special clinics.

The fact the prosecutor in Carter's case had a criminal statute against her and there was jurisdiction to hear her case, means it cannot have been 'unlawful' to convict her, whether or not you agree with the charge.

How much was Knox paid for leeching off the murder of her roommate? Enquiring minds need to know.

What was LA TIMES thinking?
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Highlight 1: How many times must it be proved that Knox did not write "sick rape/murder fantasies" before this lie stops being repeated?

No one was murdered in either of Knox's short stories. Baby Brother was an anti-rape story, not a "rape/murder fantasy" and My Love was about guilt at leaving a girl in a situation where she was later hurt in an unspecified way, most likely drugs. No rape or murder in that one at all.

Highlight 2: What is a "rabid" atheist exactly and how does Amanda qualify as a "rabid" atheist? Does this require foaming at the mouth and ranting on about how wrong people of faith are? Or perhaps trying to get legislation passed to restrict the freedom of and practice of religion? Or perhaps writing anti-religious books or articles? Does she participate in lynchings of the faithful? As for her "fretting" about never becoming president, she really has nothing to fear because swearing on the Bible is a tradition, not a requirement. It is no more required than swearing on the Bible in a court of law.

What I find truly sick is the need for some people to disparage Knox at every opportunity, not on the specifics of the case, but on her personally. Attacks on her grammar, spelling, atheism, her parents, her sisters, her boyfriends, how she dresses, her Halloween costumes, etc. are what is "sick". The internet is just chock full o' nuts. We see them crawling out from under the floorboards on almost any site where Knox is mentioned. Truly fascinating from a psychological viewpoint.
Vixen's post is funny. There is no thought to it. It's just another opportunity to express hatred toward Knox. If Amanda expressed that she liked puppies and apple pie I'm sure Vixen would use the opportunity to demonize her in some way.

What really cracks me up is Vixen's suggestion that Amanda required Chris to help her with grammar and spelling. Amanda is a graduate of a top notch prep school and the University of Washington. She wrote a best seller and has been penning a regular column. I've yet to read anything that had obvious spelling or grammatical errors.

What I do like about this is that the New York and LA Times are paying for what Amanda writes. You know that has to be annoying to the crazies who just won't give up their sick obsession.
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Old 6th August 2017, 12:26 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
This post is obsessed.
How can a post be 'obsessed'?
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Old 6th August 2017, 12:32 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Amanda Knox has replied to the criticism she has received from her op-ed on Michelle Carter. Although I disagree with her regarding her original op-ed, she has written a well thought out and compassionate follow-up. As I read it, I couldn't help but think of several PGPs' I've come across the last almost 10 years.
https://www.westsideseattle.com/ball...ichelle-carter
Not very 'compassionate' about Mez, was she? Left her to die in agony (it is a fact she was there at the scene, as definitively ruled by the courts).

No wonder she identifies with Carter ('So the ********** died; who cares?' <shrug>).
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Old 6th August 2017, 12:34 AM   #299
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Vixen's post is funny. There is no thought to it. It's just another opportunity to express hatred toward Knox. If Amanda expressed that she liked puppies and apple pie I'm sure Vixen would use the opportunity to demonize her in some way.

What really cracks me up is Vixen's suggestion that Amanda required Chris to help her with grammar and spelling. Amanda is a graduate of a top notch prep school and the University of Washington. She wrote a best seller and has been penning a regular column. I've yet to read anything that had obvious spelling or grammatical errors.

What I do like about this is that the New York and LA Times are paying for what Amanda writes. You know that has to be annoying to the crazies who just won't give up their sick obsession.

Incorrect: Linda Kuhlman ghostwrote the book by the UW 'graduate'.
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Old 6th August 2017, 12:44 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
What was Dr. Peter Gill thinking?
What was Drs Conti and Vecchiotti thinking?
What was The University of Windsor Law School thinking?
What was The Kentucky Bar Association thinking?
What was Harper Collins thinking?
What was The Supreme Court of Italy thinking?
What was The Westside Bar Association thinking?
What was Steve Moore thinking?
What was ABC Television thinking?
What was Judge Boninsegna thinking?
What were Judges Hellmann and Zanetti thinking?
What was Ron Hendry thinking?
What was the USA-Italy Friendship Association thinking?
What was Saul Kassin thinking?
What were Judges Guardiano, Pistorelli, Positano, Bruno, and Marasca thinking?
What was Candace Dempsey thinking?
What was Wladmiro De Nunzio thinking?
What was Rolling Stone Magazine thinking?
What was NetFlix thinking?
What was The New York Times thinking?
What was Senator Cantwell thinking?

There are more. My fingers are cramping.....
That's just it: they are bloody morons who want to impose their own personal opinions over those as statuted by legislation.
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Old 6th August 2017, 12:48 AM   #301
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
For heavens' sake, Vixen, your urge to spread bile about Amanda Knox clouds your postings. It is clear you have not followed the text-suicide case in Massachusetts.

Do you know who agrees with Knox that this might be a case of an "unlawful conviction"? Wait for it, and I can put it in large red letters if you need it presented that way.....

The convicting judge. Read that again, Vixen, "the convicting judge".

In a rare judicial move, the convicting judge (did I mention that he'd been the convicting judge!?) granted a stay on the implementation of the 2 1/2 year sentence because he considered it reasonable that.....

..... his own conviction of the woman could be reasonably heard by an appellate court on 1st Amendment grounds. Obviously the convicting (did I mention he'd been the convicting?) judge acknowledged that the appeal grounds were so reasonable that the woman could have served the full term of her sentence before the appeals process had played out. So in a rare move he granted the defence motion for a stay on sentence.

Of course, the convicting judge would disagree with Amanda Knox's LATimes OpEd. Of course he would. But he would also agree that it was a reasonable opinion to hold, that down the road his decision might be rendered "unlawful", and reversed.

Unfortunately your venom aimed at some random Seattleite who (through her own experience) has an opinion, blinds you to say silly things. You claim to know the inner thoughts and motives of people. You claim to know that Knox's sig-oth actually penned the LATimes OpEd, with nothing other than your own vindictiveness as "proof".

Do you believe that you are converting reasonable people to your view of things by doing this?
AIUI She is appealing under Amendment 1: freedom of speech.

I might be missing something, but how is urging someone who trusts you and hangs onto your every word, to top themselves, 'freedom of speech'?

It's telling that Knox always takes the side of the criminal with faux sympathies for their victims.
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Old 6th August 2017, 12:53 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Ummmm

Well, the matter of suicide (and whether it's morally correct, or anti-Christian, or whatever) was not the matter at hand. The matter at hand was the persuasion of a third party for a person to kill himself, and whether THAT was morally correct (or anti-Christian, or whatever). So at a stroke, this renders what you've written above totally moot and irrelevant anyhow.

So, with that in mind, pray tell us again why you think Knox is not "authorised" to comment on the moral and legal issues around one person urging another person to kill himself. And this time, please stick to the matter at hand. Thanks in advance.
Her ghostwritten book was only written by dint of her being a convicted murderer/sex criminal ATT as an attempt to influence public opinion and the courts.

IOW her claim to fame is not through any talent, but because of the vicious slaying of her roommate, a lovely popular intelligent young woman with her life ahead of her.

It is sickening that the media now see Amanda and Raff as expert crime commentators. It sends the wrong message.
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Old 6th August 2017, 01:10 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Her ghostwritten book was only written by dint of her being a convicted murderer/sex criminal ATT as an attempt to influence public opinion and the courts.
It was written after she was acquitted. It influenced nothing.

Quote:

IOW her claim to fame is not through any talent, but because of the vicious slaying of her roommate, a lovely popular intelligent young woman with her life ahead of her.
Her claim to fame is she happened to live in a house where a burglar broke in and slaughtered the woman that happened to be home at the time and used her body as his own personal sex toy and dug through per purse for cash before hitting up his favorite night club that lead to an incompetent investigation where a couple fat oafs went "no human being would climb in through a window so it must have been the ditsy coed."

Quote:

It is sickening that the media now see Amanda and Raff as expert crime commentators. It sends the wrong message.
Who cares. Take Amanda Knox off your google alert and stop worrying about what some random woman from Seattle has to say. Christ.
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Old 6th August 2017, 03:10 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Incorrect: Linda Kuhlman ghostwrote the book by the UW 'graduate'.
You have absolutely no evidence of that. Yes. Linda assisted in writing the book. How much assistance is not known. Not known by me. Not known by you. So why do you insist that Amanda did not write the book? Oh, I forgot for a moment. A sick obsession to demonize Amanda Knox.
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Old 6th August 2017, 03:17 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You have absolutely no evidence of that. Yes. Linda assisted in writing the book. How much assistance is not known. Not known by me. Not known by you. So why do you insist that Amanda did not write the book? Oh, I forgot for a moment. A sick obsession to demonize Amanda Knox.
It is ghostwritten in the same way Raff's book is ghostwritten by Andrew Gumbel. (You note both have been sued for defamation, not just Raff.)


Getting a third party to write it enabled the pair to put a human spin into their tale as Kulman and Gumbel set their imaginations to work on how they would feel if 'falsely charged' and 'wrongfully convicted'. As normal people no doubt they knew the correct emotions to describe.

It's interesting, the only explanation Knox can offer for her prosecution, and permanent conviction for Calunnia (=obstruction of justice US equivalent), is that the prosecutor Mignini has a personal interest in her.

ROFLMAO.
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Old 6th August 2017, 03:31 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It is ghostwritten in the same way Raff's book is ghostwritten by Andrew Gumbel. (You note both have been sued for defamation, not just Raff.)


Getting a third party to write it enabled the pair to put a human spin into their tale as Kulman and Gumbel set their imaginations to work on how they would feel if 'falsely charged' and 'wrongfully convicted'. As normal people no doubt they knew the correct emotions to describe.

It's interesting, the only explanation Knox can offer for her prosecution, and permanent conviction for Calunnia (=obstruction of justice US equivalent), is that the prosecutor Mignini has a personal interest in her.

ROFLMAO.
How can a post be obsessed?

You're on to something. That should be "posts", plural. The continual citationless claims banged out by the dozen demonstrate a bizarre obsession. The advice upthread is sound, delete the term "Amanda Knox" from your google alerts "and stop worrying about what some random woman from Seattle has to say", and quit with the creepy use of the familiar term for the victim of this now decade-old, albeit still horrible crime.

Quit obsessively accusing someone of a crime they did not commit.

The creepy references to Knox actually creates her noteworthiness, the very thing you say she does not deserve. So quit with the multiple, creepy references and the whole thing will disappear.

ETA - you barely ever mention Rudy Guede and he's now virtually forgotten. See how it works?
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Old 6th August 2017, 03:36 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Her ghostwritten book was only written by dint of her being a convicted murderer/sex criminal ATT as an attempt to influence public opinion and the courts.
As has been pointed out. The book was released after Amanda was acquitted and exonerated. And again, you only know that Amanda had help writing the book. Not that it was ghost written. Amanda is as innocent of murder and a sex crime as you are.
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post

IOW her claim to fame is not through any talent, but because of the vicious slaying of her roommate, a lovely popular intelligent young woman with her life ahead of her.
So? Some of our lives are thrust upon us.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It is sickening that the media now see Amanda and Raff as expert crime commentators. It sends the wrong message.
What message is that? That 2 people who were wrongfully incarcerated and ground up by the legal system might have a perspective worth hearing?

I think it is a great message and am glad some feel sick by it. I love that it bothers the disgusting obscene morons who feel the need to continue to post their vile lies on the Internet. I love that Amanda and Raffaele are paid for their opinions by the LA Times, Salon, the New York Times etc while the unpaid sickos whine on social media.

I wrote many posts that Amanda and Raffaele had no choice but to do this. People were not going to leave them alone so they might as well use their fame to help others and make a living from it. You have only yourself to blame. If it wasn't the interest from fangirls like yourself that click on every article this wouldn't have happened.
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Old 6th August 2017, 03:43 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I wrote many posts that Amanda and Raffaele had no choice but to do this. People were not going to leave them alone so they might as well use their fame to help others and make a living from it. You have only yourself to blame. If it wasn't the interest from fangirls like yourself that click on every article this wouldn't have happened.
Proof is how Rudy Guede - the killer - has fallen off social media radar.
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Old 6th August 2017, 03:52 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It is ghostwritten in the same way Raff's book is ghostwritten by Andrew Gumbel. (You note both have been sued for defamation, not just Raff.)

Getting a third party to write it enabled the pair to put a human spin into their tale as Kulman and Gumbel set their imaginations to work on how they would feel if 'falsely charged' and 'wrongfully convicted'. As normal people no doubt they knew the correct emotions to describe.

It's interesting, the only explanation Knox can offer for her prosecution, and permanent conviction for Calunnia (=obstruction of justice US equivalent), is that the prosecutor Mignini has a personal interest in her.

ROFLMAO.
And another post which you have absolutely zero evidence for. No question Amanda had help writing the book never having penned one.

But you have absolutely no idea whatsoever how much was written by Linda and how much was written by Amanda. It only fits your sick and twisted narrative that Amanda couldn't have wrote it.

Here's a riddle for you. What do you call someone who doesn't have clue about what is true and what is false, but nevertheless says it anyway?




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Old 6th August 2017, 07:55 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You have absolutely no evidence of that. Yes. Linda assisted in writing the book. How much assistance is not known. Not known by me. Not known by you. So why do you insist that Amanda did not write the book? Oh, I forgot for a moment. A sick obsession to demonize Amanda Knox.
Harper Collins would have been nuts NOT to assign someone to a first time author. My guess - only a guess - is that this Linda helped in layout and pacing, and offered advice on whether or not any one episode contributed to the larger narrative.

What we're witnessing on this thread are the elements of what wrongful convictions are. One of them is the incessant trash-talking towards the accused, regardless of what the courts eventually found.

Ironically the Italian Supreme Court included this element in its 2015 reasons for annulling the lower court conviction.

But no mistake - we're witnessing in real time with Vixen's posts the softening up of the narrative through trashing the accused at every turn.

Even to the point of calling that long list of experts who eventually supported the defence case "morons". At some point trash talk is all they have....

...... esp. when they cannot name one forensic-DNA expert who's ever supported the prosecution's DNA claims.

So it's to Plan B. Trash talk.
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Old 6th August 2017, 08:30 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
That's just it: they are bloody morons who want to impose their own personal opinions over those as statuted by legislation.
PGP posters who have difficulty understanding even the simplest concepts and display gross stupidity in their posts have the cheek to call people morons. Yet another example hypocrisy by PGP.
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Old 6th August 2017, 09:20 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Why do I not find it surprising that you provide a link that you think supports your claim when, in fact, it doesn't?

Please quote where Dempsey says or even implies that

1) Vecchiotti even commissioned a DVD for the defence eyes' only

or that Vecchiotti

2) was almost arrested by the carabonieri carabinieri.
Hint: she doesn't.

"She appealed to Hellmann, the judge in the relevant case, and even he ordered her to make a copy for the court and for the prosecution, " is a misleading spin on what Dempsey actually wrote. Vecchiotti didn't "appeal" to Hellmann; she called him to find out if she should or could give the cops a copy as they had no warrant. What the police were attempting was illegal as they tried to seize property they had no legal right to. Your use of "even he ordered her to make a copy implies that a copy had already been ordered made for the police and Vecchiotti had not complied. That is false. Hellmann ordered a copy made because the prosecution requested it.



You have failed to provide any evidence that the DVD was ever made "for the defense's eyes only" or that the defense had even seen the DVD before it was played by Vecchiotti in court the previous day...when everyone else saw it. Your claim of collusion is thereby totally unsupported by any evidence.
Perhaps if you spent less time calling people, including highly respected experts, "morons", claiming that Knox had little to do with the writing of her book when you have no idea whatsoever how much Knox actually wrote, and penning incessant personal attacks on Knox....perhaps....just perhaps....you could address the issues I presented above.
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Old 6th August 2017, 09:26 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Perhaps if you spent less time calling people, including highly respected experts, "morons", claiming that Knox had little to do with the writing of her book when you have no idea whatsoever how much Knox actually wrote, and penning incessant personal attacks on Knox....perhaps....just perhaps....you could address the issues I presented above.
I've been asking her to provide the name of a forensic-DNA expert who she doesn't regard as a moron, to no avail. Perhaps the incessant name-calling is a way of avoiding the issue.

One correction is that she has offered two people in place of this - one expert, an Italian professor with credentials who testified (obstensively to buttress the prosecution case) that Stefanoni had NOT followed international protocols regarding multiple amplifications..... and the other an astrologer.

Then she said that i.d.'ing the guy as an astrologer was an ad hominem!
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Old 6th August 2017, 09:59 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It is ghostwritten in the same way Raff's book is ghostwritten by Andrew Gumbel. (You note both have been sued for defamation, not just Raff.)


Getting a third party to write it enabled the pair to put a human spin into their tale as Kulman and Gumbel set their imaginations to work on how they would feel if 'falsely charged' and 'wrongfully convicted'. As normal people no doubt they knew the correct emotions to describe.

It's interesting, the only explanation Knox can offer for her prosecution, and permanent conviction for Calunnia (=obstruction of justice US equivalent), is that the prosecutor Mignini has a personal interest in her.

ROFLMAO.
Once again you resort to telling us things you cannot possibly know. But that's pretty much par for the course now.

"The only explanation Knox can offer for her prosecution"? Really? You really wrote that? Knox has given many reasons as to why she was prosecuted: tunnel vision by the police and prosecution, media sensationalism,
pressure to find and arrest the killer, suspect-centered investigation, etc. I suggest you read the Supreme Court's criticism again as they saw many of the same reasons.

Please stop falsely claiming calunnia equals obstruction of justice in the US. It does not. There is NO equivalent to Italy's calunnia in the US. The closest equivalent is defamation (slander and libel). We've been over this before and you could never provide any evidence of your claim so please, just stop.

Calumny:
•a false and malicious statement meant to hurt someone's reputation
• the uttering of such a statement; slander

(Webster Legal Law Dictionary)

Lying/making false statements can ONLY be prosecuted as obstruction in the US if it is done UNDER OATH. Amanda was never under oath.

Quote:
What about obstruction of justice? You're guilty of obstruction if you do anything that hampers an ongoing case—destroying documents, intimidating witnesses, or lying under oath, for example. (Some courts have ruled that lying under oath is not sufficient for conviction on its own, though.) As with the other charges, prosecutors must show that an act of obstruction has significant bearing on the proceeding. According to the Supreme Court, it must have the "natural and probable effect" of interfering with the case.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...u_say_lie.html



It is a class example of confirmation bias when someone continues to make a claim that has been repeatedly proved false but cannot provide any evidence of that claim being true.

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Old 6th August 2017, 10:17 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It is a class example of confirmation bias when someone continues to make a claim that has been repeatedly proved false but cannot provide any evidence of that claim being true.
This thread is treated to the factors which go into wrongful convictions. One is making claims which have not been demonstrated.

Another is continual character assassination, which is justified by assuming the conclusion to begin with.
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Old 6th August 2017, 11:30 AM   #316
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Regarding Maori's "wining and dining" (according to Vixen) of Conti and Vecchiotti from Mignini's deposition:

Quote:
..had been seen by Dr MIGNINI (and, according to what has
been said to him, also by the biologist at Scientific Police
headquarters Dr Patrizia Stefanoni), to be having a long
conversation and in a “private” manner, with the defence
lawyers of the accused, in particular with Advocate Maori,
before the hearing in which the experts were to be examined
and cross-examined had started. This had happened in
particular on two occasions, both in Piazza Matteotti, in front
of the law courts building, one time in front of the main
entrance and a second time, further back, in the direction of
Via Oberdan, while Dr Stefanoni and Dr Comodi had seen them
together, amongst the various defence lawyers for the accused,
in a bar..
So, they were being "wined and dined" standing in front of the courthouse and in a bar in full public view and where anyone nearby could have heard what was being said. This is absolute evidence of collusion in the PGP version of reality. Sheesh.
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Old 6th August 2017, 11:37 AM   #317
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Harper Collins would have been nuts NOT to assign someone to a first time author. My guess - only a guess - is that this Linda helped in layout and pacing, and offered advice on whether or not any one episode contributed to the larger narrative.
Of course this is true. Linda says that Amanda wrote the book and she did very little. But who's to say?

I KNOW that I don't know. What makes Vixen so sure of something she has ABSOLUTELY no way of knowing? Did Linda call her personally and tell her Amanda wrote none of it? Somehow, I doubt it.

But guess what Vixen? Amanda has written countless columns and more and more of them have been picked up by major publications. Seems as if she is making a living as a writer.
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Old 6th August 2017, 02:21 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Oh, my! I've found the smoking gun regarding Maori colluding with the (not so) independent forensics experts! A frequent contributor to TJMK, whose credibility is unassailable, gave this as evidence citing PMF as the source:
Quote:
1.Barbie Nadeau in Angel Face:
'Concern that the independent experts weren’t so independent after all spread quickly after several journalists saw Vecchiotti with Raffaele’s lawyer Luca Maori in the courthouse halls and coffee bars of Perugia. Curious, too, was the fact that the Vecchiotti-Conti report cited more American forensic standards than Italian ones, and that many of these had also been quoted by the Friends of Amanda.'

The curious thing is, when I search for this quote, including several short phrases from it, in Nadeau's book via Amazon's "Look inside" feature, nothing comes up except for "0 results". Nothing.

Even in this alleged (but unfound) quote from Nadeau's book, journalists were hardly seeing Maori "wining and dining" Conti and Vecchiotti.
It's in the updated post-Hellmann edition with the "Sex, Murder and the inside Story of Amanda Knox" (instead of the "The True Story of Student Killer Amanda Knox") subtitle at kindle position 2211.
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Old 6th August 2017, 03:08 PM   #319
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Do read the deposition filed against Raff's attorney Maori.
[...]
This one? The one that has the lie about Matteini-Chiari being the president of the criminal appeals court in it?
The one that the prosecution in Florence asked to be dismissed in May last year?
Quote:
Chiesta l’archiviazione La querela per diffamazione, firmata dal sostituto procuratore generale Mignini e da due poliziotte che quando prestavano servizio alla squadra mobile hanno svolto indagini sull’omicidio di Meredith, ha ricevuto una richiesta d’archiviazione da parte del pm di Firenze contro la quale è stata avanzata opposizione.
I still love to re-read that one, because it makes clear that for Mignini it's not about justice, but his very own "bella figura"...
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Old 6th August 2017, 04:03 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by Methos View Post
It's in the updated post-Hellmann edition with the "Sex, Murder and the inside Story of Amanda Knox" (instead of the "The True Story of Student Killer Amanda Knox") subtitle at kindle position 2211.
Ah. Thank you, Methos. Poor Barbie having to retitle her book, removing "True" and "Student Killer Amanda Knox".
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