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Old 8th August 2017, 05:08 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Thanks for your question. There is a really simple answer:
Homeopathy does not work and cannot treat diabetes.

I thought I'd just cut to the chase...
Good call!!!!! I had forgotten that trail into the rabbit hole!!!!!!
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Old 8th August 2017, 05:14 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Do you mean we are constantly hammered by unhealthful exposures in big cities and these need to be either controlled by our defence or homeostatic mechanisms or by higher doses of durgs?

If so, how our defence mechanisms will be modified? Compromising or weakening?
You really need to read that post you are replying to. You a writing right past what it asks.
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Old 8th August 2017, 06:29 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
How most people living in big crowded and unhealthful cities since long time, even bit older, can show normal test results?
You seem to almost answer the question yourself. Everyone has an immune system, etc. There is also that simple fact that not everyone is exposed to these "unhealthful" conditions all of the time and throughout a city.

Your implication that all cities are vaguely "unhealthful" makes the question invalid. Most cites are not so "unhealthful" that a large proportion of the population will have abnormal test results. There are exceptions, e.g. Los Angeles on a smog day.

ETA: It is probable that people in cities are healthier than people in rural areas, for example they have better access to better medical facilities.
Rural and Urban Health - "The rural population is consistently less well-off than the urban population with respect to health."
Is the health of people living in rural areas different from those in cities? Evidence from routine data linked with the Scottish Health Survey (answer not measurably different).
City vs. Country: Who Is Healthier? - "For many urban dwellers, the country conjures up images of clean air, fresh food and physical activities. But these days, Americans residing in major cities live longer, healthier lives overall than their country cousins—a reversal from decades past."

Last edited by Reality Check; 8th August 2017 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 8th August 2017, 06:43 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
...those who automatically divide people into two groups, and those who don't.



There are many other populations, and no particular reason to focus on these two.

Dave
It is meant for OP purpose. Does our some body defence mechanism can address both these two types? I mean on one side it protect us from life endangering severe events and on other hand it can encourage routine but less serious disorders?
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Old 8th August 2017, 06:46 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
You can fight a shark, or flee (well swim very quickly anyway) but how do you fight off smog?

I suppose you could wave the friggin shark with laser beams at it.
Forst, why to be get exposed to this type of situations? Fight or flight is later.
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Old 8th August 2017, 06:52 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Hello!

Which test results exactly? I'm assuming that you are referring to levels of pollutants. If I'm right, then it's very likely that such pollutants are not ever tested for on city dwellers unless they are ill and presenting the signs and symptoms of toxicity.

You'll have to be more specific: which tests? What kind of impact? Exposure to what?

No. Generally, the various toxic substances we are exposed to in a city may not be present in quantities large enough to cause toxicity. If they were causing toxicity, then there would be a predictable impact to health.

You too!
Say Body profile for example. Even Heart Evaluation tests. Yes, there can be few big cities where unhealthful exposures are well controlled and within normal limits but pls take cities having abnormal levels of unhealthful exposures for the purpose of this topic. Thanks.
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Old 8th August 2017, 06:55 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
I think we can see two types of people: ....
We see two fairy stories without any evidence from you. When someone says that are X types of people where X is a small number we should suspect that they are projecting their own biases onto people. The most obvious example is the 2 gender myth (there is a range of genders).

Someone with a serious illness will generally have abnormal test results.
  • Get a serious infection and white blood cells increase to abnormal levels.
  • Develop Type 2 diabetes and blood sugar levels are abnormal.
  • Develop an environmental illness and there will be abnormal test results related to the environmental cause (look up lead paint, asbestos, etc.)
  • etc.
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Old 8th August 2017, 06:57 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
There are a number of known adverse effects from living in big cities, such as:

More infectious disease.
Various effects of pollution.
Increased stress.



They do. Average results for city dwellers do show effects.



No.

Hans
Hello.

No after some later state most can still show normal test results inpite of chronically lived in unhealthful exposures. I mean, tests not their appearances. Tests: Body Profile, Heart evaluation tests etc.
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Old 8th August 2017, 07:02 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
A simple google search will turn up numerous health hazards recorded as being created or exacerbated by conditions in big cities.

As usual, it is not clear where Kumar is headed, but the OP builds on a false assertion. It is indeed less healthy to live in a city.

Hans
Yes that is the issue, How test reports of many can come to normal inspite of chronically exposed to numerous health hazards? And how they get sudden and severe disorders without previous warning signs inspite their test reports were normal even in recent past?
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Old 8th August 2017, 07:07 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Kid Eager View Post
Why then does Australia have one of the highest life expectancies, but also has one of the highest percentages of the population living in cities?

Also, where's the data behind you assertions? As usual, it seems to be missing.
http://indianexpress.com/article/cit...study-4776494/

How it can happen? Why defence mechanism do not do something for it?
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Old 8th August 2017, 08:05 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Hello Friend,
Greetings!

Just a simple but big question:

How most people living in big crowded and unhealthful cities since long time, even bit older, can show normal test results?

Should their test reports not show impact from chronic unhealthful exposures?

Are they constantly and chronically corrected by body's defense mechanisms?

Best wishes.

You realize of course that the sanitation movement of the late 18th through the first world war is what made city living safe. Before that, New York was basically ground zero for people dying from overcrowding.

So, your question is wrong. It ignores the long history of sanitation, germ theory, public housing, building codes and other important topics. You should read up on these.
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Old 8th August 2017, 08:07 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
...How it can happen?
Because you cannot understand your question in the OP of your thread, Kumar ? Your question is not on seasonal variations in death rates in a single city.
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Old 8th August 2017, 08:36 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Say Body profile for example. Even Heart Evaluation tests. Yes, there can be few big cities where unhealthful exposures are well controlled and within normal limits but pls take cities having abnormal levels of unhealthful exposures for the purpose of this topic. Thanks.
Why only cities? This is begging the question.

Not all cities are unhealthful environments, and not all unhealthful environments are cities.
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Old 8th August 2017, 08:38 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Yes that is the issue, How test reports of many can come to normal inspite of chronically exposed to numerous health hazards? And how they get sudden and severe disorders without previous warning signs inspite their test reports were normal even in recent past?
Is this a rhetorical question, or do you really care about the answer?
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Old 8th August 2017, 08:39 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
You realize of course that the sanitation movement of the late 18th through the first world war is what made city living safe. Before that, New York was basically ground zero for people dying from overcrowding.

So, your question is wrong. It ignores the long history of sanitation, germ theory, public housing, building codes and other important topics. You should read up on these.
Yes possible. But I am talking about those cities which are not. Moreover I am not sure whether people living in those cities which you have mentioned(i.e without unhealthful exposures) get more routine but less serious disorders or not?

Is it not logical that our body should present the impact of all unhealthful exposures? And if not why and how?
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Old 8th August 2017, 08:41 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Kid Eager View Post
Why only cities? This is begging the question.

Not all cities are unhealthful environments, and not all unhealthful environments are cities.
Yes you are right. You can simply take areas with unhealthful exposures for the purpose of this topic.
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Old 8th August 2017, 08:43 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Kid Eager View Post
Is this a rhetorical question, or do you really care about the answer?
Can our defence system be compromised due to constant and chronic unhealthful exposures or due to chronic stress from such exposures? If can then?
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Old 8th August 2017, 11:32 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
We must understand carefully, should we live naturally and non-compromised or unnaturally and compromised?

As has been established in your previous threads about this, living unnaturally has resulted in longer and healthier lives.
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Old 8th August 2017, 11:33 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Yes you are right. You can simply take areas with unhealthful exposures for the purpose of this topic.

And we're back to "harmful things are harmful"?
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Old 8th August 2017, 11:47 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Yes possible. But I am talking about those cities which are not. Moreover I am not sure whether people living in those cities which you have mentioned(i.e without unhealthful exposures) get more routine but less serious disorders or not?
As far as I know there is no link like the one you appear to be suggesting. Getting less serious diseases does not prevent you from getting worse diseases. And staying away from minor infections does not increase your risk of getting a deadly disease.
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Old 9th August 2017, 12:20 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
As far as I know there is no link like the one you appear to be suggesting. Getting less serious diseases does not prevent you from getting worse diseases. And staying away from minor infections does not increase your risk of getting a deadly disease.

Actually, one of the ideas behind homoeopathy is that the body can only have one disease at a time, and that homoeopathy works because the temporary effects of the remedy, being similar to the symptoms of the disease, displace the disease from the body.

It's part of the 18th century paradigm that homoeopathy is stuck in, in which, for example, gout was regarded as a positive indication because "a fit of the gout terminates symptoms which threaten something worse".*


*John Hill: The Management of the Gout 8th ed 1771, quoted in Bivens: Alternative Medicine? A History OUP 2007, p. 49.
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Old 9th August 2017, 12:37 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
As has been established in your previous threads about this, living unnaturally has resulted in longer and healthier lives.
We know outcome from living naturally but What will be true outcome on ultimate, probably we don't know.

Unhealthful exposures can somewhat be taken as toxic exposures and we know Hormesis theory about biphasic affect from higher/toxic and lower doses. We also know about Stress hormones, Fight or flight response on endangered stiuation, Autonomic neuropathy, Resistances, compromising etc. If we will come near to a Lion and if we are not capable to fight, if we don't flight and will stay in front of him, obiously we can be killed by him.
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Old 9th August 2017, 12:41 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Actually, one of the ideas behind homoeopathy is that the body can only have one disease at a time, and that homoeopathy works because the temporary effects of the remedy, being similar to the symptoms of the disease, displace the disease from the body.

It's part of the 18th century paradigm that homoeopathy is stuck in, in which, for example, gout was regarded as a positive indication because "a fit of the gout terminates symptoms which threaten something worse".*


*John Hill: The Management of the Gout 8th ed 1771, quoted in Bivens: Alternative Medicine? A History OUP 2007, p. 49.
I am not discussing homeopathy here, but I thing you are mostly wrong. They also consider constitutional remedies and totality of symptoms. Whereas modern system should be working in a style which you have indicated.
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Old 9th August 2017, 12:45 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
As far as I know there is no link like the one you appear to be suggesting. Getting less serious diseases does not prevent you from getting worse diseases. And staying away from minor infections does not increase your risk of getting a deadly disease.
May be you are right but I am trying to better understand about it--how defence system work when it is well stimulated and when it is inhibited/compromised due to chronic unhealthful exposures.
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Old 9th August 2017, 12:45 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
We know outcome from living naturally but What will be true outcome on ultimate, probably we don't know.

Unhealthful exposures can somewhat be taken as toxic exposures and we know Hormesis theory about biphasic affect from higher/toxic and lower doses. We also know about Stress hormones, Fight or flight response on endangered stiuation, Autonomic neuropathy, Resistances, compromising etc. If we will come near to a Lion and if we are not capable to fight, if we don't flight and will stay in front of him, obiously we can be killed by him.
Running away from a lion is also really difficult. But running away from the air in the city you live in is downright impossible. And punching smog won't do much besides giving you some exercise.
How is the fight or flight response connected to exposure to toxins?
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Old 9th August 2017, 12:50 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Running away from a lion is also really difficult. But running away from the air in the city you live in is downright impossible. And punching smog won't do much besides giving you some exercise.
How is the fight or flight response connected to exposure to toxins?
Why can't exposures to toxins or to unhealthful things be taken as a stress? Fight or flight response is stimulated by stress.
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Old 9th August 2017, 01:11 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Why can't exposures to toxins or to unhealthful things be taken as a stress? Fight or flight response is stimulated by stress.
Because the response makes you run away or punch something. It doesn't say anything about how the immune system works. Also, once a microbe or toxin is inside your body, having your white blood cells or liver or kidneys 'flee' from them isn't going to work out in your favor.
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Old 9th August 2017, 01:50 AM   #68
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Biology has long studied the phenomenon of a-stress, which means that low-levels of exposure to harmful effects over time lead make the individual much better able to cope with levels of stress that the un-adapted would find downright hazardous.
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Old 9th August 2017, 03:50 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
We know outcome from living naturally but What will be true outcome on ultimate, probably we don't know.

Kumar, you have been presented with evidence showing that with the availability of "modern interventions" people are living longer, healthier lives, and that urban populations are not necessarily less healthy than rural populations. The fact that this outcome doesn't suit your agenda doesn't mean that it is not true.
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Old 9th August 2017, 04:25 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Forst, why to be get exposed to this type of situations? Fight or flight is later.
You might want to rewrite the first (at least) of the two sentences above to make it a real English language sentence. THEN explain the second. Fight or flight is pretty much always an immediate response to a very endangering situation!!!!!
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Old 9th August 2017, 04:26 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Kumar, you have been presented with evidence showing that with the availability of "modern interventions" people are living longer, healthier lives, and that urban populations are not necessarily less healthy than rural populations. The fact that this outcome doesn't suit your agenda doesn't mean that it is not true.
That last sentence has always been a problem for this poster and has been noted often in these pages!!!!!
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Old 9th August 2017, 04:28 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
... show normal test results?
....
What sort of tests ...
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Old 9th August 2017, 04:30 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
You realize of course that the sanitation movement of the late 18th through the first world war is what made city living safe. Before that, New York was basically ground zero for people dying from overcrowding.

So, your question is wrong. It ignores the long history of sanitation, germ theory, public housing, building codes and other important topics. You should read up on these.
This is not the first time this has been suggested to deponent!!!!!
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Old 9th August 2017, 04:32 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Kid Eager View Post
Is this a rhetorical question, or do you really care about the answer?
The only real question here is where K. is actually trying to bend the conversation to something he believes and/or wants us to believe!!!

And, now I am officially bored here!!!!
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Old 9th August 2017, 05:29 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
You might want to rewrite the first (at least) of the two sentences above to make it a real English language sentence. THEN explain the second.

And then again, he might not:
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Originally Posted by Little 10 Toes View Post
Take the time to learn English and stop using unconventional abbreviations. Learn to spell check.
It is better to remain bit unclear in this unclear(not yet absulute( world.
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Old 9th August 2017, 07:08 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
A simple google search will turn up numerous health hazards recorded as being created or exacerbated by conditions in big cities.


Hans
Yes but I want to better understand what these health hazards can do to us? Whether their excessive and chronic exposures keep on causing occasionaldisorders in us or make us resistant to these? You may base Hormesis principle for it.
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Old 9th August 2017, 07:10 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
What sort of tests ...
As I told Body profile, inflammatory markers and even heart evaluation tests.
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Old 9th August 2017, 07:15 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Biology has long studied the phenomenon of a-stress, which means that low-levels of exposure to harmful effects over time lead make the individual much better able to cope with levels of stress that the un-adapted would find downright hazardous.
I am not sure it is physiological or pathological(compromised) state of stress handling by body defence? When we get callus or even scars, we may be better adopted but still compromised state.
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Old 9th August 2017, 07:15 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
As I told Body profile, inflammatory markers and even heart evaluation tests.
I do not think that anybody believes that we become resistant to heart diseases or inflammation.
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Old 9th August 2017, 07:19 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Kumar, you have been presented with evidence showing that with the availability of "modern interventions" people are living longer, healthier lives, and that urban populations are not necessarily less healthy than rural populations. The fact that this outcome doesn't suit your agenda doesn't mean that it is not true.
We have to wait and watch for long to fully justify it. Living longer and increasing the numbers may need not to be living healthy.
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