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Tags assault incidents , Charlottesville riot , protest incidents , Virginia incidents , white supremacists

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Old 12th August 2017, 07:53 PM   #161
thaiboxerken
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Even if you go looking for violence, you are still the victim if you are the victim of it.
No, you aren't. You are enjoying the consequences of your efforts. It would be like a boxer complaining that he was punched by his opponent in the ring.
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Old 12th August 2017, 07:56 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I'd like to take a moment to share this hilarious photographic record of Richard Spencer being arrested at today's event:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHC8xr_WAAMm3bz.jpg

LOL. #RichardSpencerMyNextBeatDown
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Old 12th August 2017, 07:57 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
No, you aren't. You are enjoying the consequences of your efforts. It would be like a boxer complaining that he was punched by his opponent in the ring.
Of course the boxer can complain about being punched in the face. There is no magic that stops that.
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Old 12th August 2017, 08:03 PM   #164
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BREAKING NEWS and GREEEEAAAAAAAT News!! The FBI Appears to be Targeting Antifa Members and Associates. The Government Crackdown is Coming, but Will They Go Out in Peace or Pieces?

https://sisypheannews.com/2017/08/10...ent-crackdown/
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Old 12th August 2017, 08:08 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by sonofthor View Post
BREAKING NEWS and GREEEEAAAAAAAT News!! The FBI Appears to be Targeting Antifa Members and Associates. The Government Crackdown is Coming, but Will They Go Out in Peace or Pieces?

https://sisypheannews.com/2017/08/10...ent-crackdown/
Old news is good news, I guess.
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Old 12th August 2017, 08:12 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by sonofthor View Post
Nope! They are both equally cancer. I'll be glad to punch both...at the same time!
Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
The only difference is marketing.

They both have no tolerance for ideological diversity or freedom of thought and both have no problem committing violence to enforce the version they want.

Do you think the world antifa want to build is going to be some shining bastion of equality and unlimited human potential?
You're both creating a false equivalence.

There is a major difference. The AntiFa hate people because of what they are, the Alt-Right Nazis etc, hate people because of who they are.

Let me explain.

AntiFa are against one particular ideological, Fascism. The claim that they "have no tolerance for ideological diversity or freedom of thought" on totally incorrect. They have no tolerance for those that use that ideological diversity or freedom of thought to push Fascism. AntiFa have no concerns if you want to be mainstream right-wing, libertarian, centre left or whatever, as long as you aren't supporting Fascism. If those supporting Fascism, stop doing so, then AntiFa will leave them alone. If supporters of Fascism all stopped supporting it, or at least pushing for it openly and at the highest levels of Government, AntiFa would collapse and go away too. The things that AntiFa is against is something that people chose to be, it is what they are.

The likes of the Alt-Right, KKK, Neo-Nazis, White Nationalists.... Thy hate people who are different to them, for how they were born. No-one chose to be born a Jew, or Black, or Gay, or Hispanic, but they are targeted for these things despite having no control over it. The Alt-Right truly does not tolerance ideological diversity or freedom of thought, they expect everyone to do and say the things they declare to be acceptable based on their one ideological, and if you don't follow them sand their beliefs, you are a target to be attacked and destroyed. They attack and hate people for who they are, who they were born. As long as there are non-white people, gay people, or people that refuse to support the Alt-Right cause, then they will be hated.

If you can't see the difference in hating a person because of the political ideology they have chosen to push and hating someone because of who they are born, well then you have a problem.
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Old 12th August 2017, 08:13 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I'd like to take a moment to share this hilarious photographic record of Richard Spencer being arrested at today's event:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHC8xr_WAAMm3bz.jpg
Is a Richard Spencer a new type of fecal matter?????
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Old 12th August 2017, 08:15 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
You're both creating a false equivalence.

There is a major difference. The AntiFa hate people because of what they are, the Alt-Right Nazis etc, hate people because of who they are.

Let me explain.

AntiFa are against one particular ideological, Fascism. The claim that they "have no tolerance for ideological diversity or freedom of thought" on totally incorrect. They have no tolerance for those that use that ideological diversity or freedom of thought to push Fascism. AntiFa have no concerns if you want to be mainstream right-wing, libertarian, centre left or whatever, as long as you aren't supporting Fascism. If those supporting Fascism, stop doing so, then AntiFa will leave them alone. If supporters of Fascism all stopped supporting it, or at least pushing for it openly and at the highest levels of Government, AntiFa would collapse and go away too. The things that AntiFa is against is something that people chose to be, it is what they are.

The likes of the Alt-Right, KKK, Neo-Nazis, White Nationalists.... Thy hate people who are different to them, for how they were born. No-one chose to be born a Jew, or Black, or Gay, or Hispanic, but they are targeted for these things despite having no control over it. The Alt-Right truly does not tolerance ideological diversity or freedom of thought, they expect everyone to do and say the things they declare to be acceptable based on their one ideological, and if you don't follow them sand their beliefs, you are a target to be attacked and destroyed. They attack and hate people for who they are, who they were born. As long as there are non-white people, gay people, or people that refuse to support the Alt-Right cause, then they will be hated.

If you can't see the difference in hating a person because of the political ideology they have chosen to push and hating someone because of who they are born, well then you have a problem.
Good explanation of AntiFa up there!!!!! Kind of Anti I am pro!!!!!
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Old 12th August 2017, 08:15 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Is a Richard Spencer a new type of fecal matter?????
No, just the same old ****.
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Old 12th August 2017, 08:16 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Of course the boxer can complain about being punched in the face. There is no magic that stops that.
You like to take things literally just to "win" arguments, no matter how silly it looks.

Yes, they can complain, but their complaints are stupid and hold no value.
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Old 12th August 2017, 08:20 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Good explanation of AntiFa up there!!!!! Kind of Anti I am pro!!!!!
I agree with PhantomWolf as well.

Antifa has a great message, a good motive. They are just dumb to think that violence will help get the message out there. Non-violence is more powerful than their violent methodology. They are misguided.

Alt-right, Nazi, White Nationalists have an evil message that is, in itself, one of violence and divisiveness. They are scumbags.
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Old 12th August 2017, 08:22 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
In this video the car heads fast straight down the street and appears to miss all the people when he could have gone up the sidewalk and hit plenty, and then slams straight into the ca
Oh for pity's sake. Get over it. The guy ran people down on purpose, so what he didn't go for the smaller targets to the side, he was aiming for the intersection with marchers in it.

Quote:
The license plate of this car says GODKP*E (where * = I don't know). I thought this was the driver's car earlier and assumed it was a nationalist because of the god reference (so sue me), so now I wonder if it still has anything to do with it. Maybe the car was the target, then he ran over the people while fleeing?
That is the car that was hit, not the car that did the hitting.
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Old 12th August 2017, 08:25 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I'd like to take a moment to share this hilarious photographic record of Richard Spencer being arrested at today's event:
That's not Spencer.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 12th August 2017 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 12th August 2017, 08:27 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by sonofthor View Post
BREAKING NEWS and GREEEEAAAAAAAT News!! The FBI Appears to be Targeting Antifa Members and Associates. The Government Crackdown is Coming, but Will They Go Out in Peace or Pieces?

https://sisypheannews.com/2017/08/10...ent-crackdown/
Who are you? I see you've been a member for years but I've not seen many of your posts.

Here is how your source labels itself:
Quote:
Sisyphean News, Exposing Antifa and Working Against the Mainstream Media
Doesn't add much to the site's cred.
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Old 12th August 2017, 08:28 PM   #175
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Vehicle aside, CNN's website is carrying a small photo of the alleged driver. While it's not definitive of course, the fellow's hairdo is distinctive enough perhaps to serve as a predictor of his sympathies.
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Old 12th August 2017, 08:33 PM   #176
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This obviously isn't Spencer.

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Old 12th August 2017, 08:41 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
That's not Spencer.
It's difficult to tell; they all have the same haircut for some reason.
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Old 12th August 2017, 08:42 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I agree with PhantomWolf as well.

Antifa has a great message, a good motive. They are just dumb to think that violence will help get the message out there. Non-violence is more powerful than their violent methodology. They are misguided.

Alt-right, Nazi, White Nationalists have an evil message that is, in itself, one of violence and divisiveness. They are scumbags.
I'll let it go for this thread and just say I know lots of free-thinking anarchists and love them to pieces. I've also witnessed disturbing rationalizations for ever-expanding lists of valid "enemies" ('subjecting others to wage slavery and theft of the public commons!' or shopping at a store on the day they don't want you to) and criticism or objections to their methods is a good way to get there. Like any ideology, there is a militant fringe.

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Old 12th August 2017, 08:45 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by chrispy View Post
I just can't believe that we are typing these things about the *********** PRESIDENT OF THE *********** UNITED STATES

Bannon, Gorka, Miller, hell, Trump himself. How the **** did we get Nazis in the White House?

ETA I Know how, just can't believe it still....
Godwin violation reported.
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Old 12th August 2017, 08:52 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
It's difficult to tell; they all have the same haircut for some reason.

Channeling a little Rudi Höss zirka Summer 1944. Dick was there apparently:

Quote:
Richard Spencer assaulted by riot police, Antifa, and again by police


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uucRNl4Ht8
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Old 12th August 2017, 08:56 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
In the video one guy says he's there for Republicans, the free market and "killing jews".
Why is your jaw dropping?
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Old 12th August 2017, 08:58 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
It's difficult to tell; they all have the same haircut for some reason.
Guess we can wait until it is sorted out but there are numerous reports it is not Spencer.

Is this him?
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I AGREE


He says he was maced, no mention of any arrest. The hair of the guy getting arrested doesn't look the same.
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Old 12th August 2017, 09:05 PM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trustbutverify
He can't afford to alienate the Nazi vote at this point.
Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Or the Nazis in his administration.
Probably the same result now.
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Old 12th August 2017, 09:20 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I agree with PhantomWolf as well.

Antifa has a great message, a good motive. They are just dumb to think that violence will help get the message out there. Non-violence is more powerful than their violent methodology. They are misguided.

Alt-right, Nazi, White Nationalists have an evil message that is, in itself, one of violence and divisiveness. They are scumbags.
At least there are some people in this country willing to stand up to and confront Nazis. I find that admirable.
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Old 12th August 2017, 09:24 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
At least there are some people in this country willing to stand up to and confront Nazis. I find that admirable.

I agree. It's a shame that our President doesn't appear to be one of them.
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Old 12th August 2017, 09:44 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
You like to take things literally just to "win" arguments, no matter how silly it looks.

Yes, they can complain, but their complaints are stupid and hold no value.
Nothing stops us from giving them value.
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Old 12th August 2017, 09:47 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Nothing stops us from giving them value.
You value their whining that they got the fight that they sought? I guess we'll just have to disagree that their complaints have value.
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Old 12th August 2017, 09:54 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
You value their whining that they got the fight that they sought? I guess we'll just have to disagree that their complaints have value.
What do you mean by have value? If you have two people with one complaint that has value and one that doesn't, what do you do different?
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Old 12th August 2017, 10:03 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Nothing stops us from giving them value.

You can assign all the value you want to anything you want. Your opinions are your own, as are your vapid attempts to justify them. But no one is under any obligation to assign those any value, either.
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Old 12th August 2017, 10:04 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
What do you mean by have value? If you have two people with one complaint that has value and one that doesn't, what do you do different?
BOB behave or I'll get Oystein over here so he can out BobtheC by being BobtheC! That was glorious by the way and more than a little deserved.
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Old 12th August 2017, 10:05 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
You're both creating a false equivalence.

There is a major difference. The AntiFa hate people because of what they are, the Alt-Right Nazis etc, hate people because of who they are.

Let me explain.

AntiFa are against one particular ideological, Fascism. The claim that they "have no tolerance for ideological diversity or freedom of thought" on totally incorrect. They have no tolerance for those that use that ideological diversity or freedom of thought to push Fascism. AntiFa have no concerns if you want to be mainstream right-wing, libertarian, centre left or whatever, as long as you aren't supporting Fascism. If those supporting Fascism, stop doing so, then AntiFa will leave them alone. If supporters of Fascism all stopped supporting it, or at least pushing for it openly and at the highest levels of Government, AntiFa would collapse and go away too. The things that AntiFa is against is something that people chose to be, it is what they are.

The likes of the Alt-Right, KKK, Neo-Nazis, White Nationalists.... Thy hate people who are different to them, for how they were born. No-one chose to be born a Jew, or Black, or Gay, or Hispanic, but they are targeted for these things despite having no control over it. The Alt-Right truly does not tolerance ideological diversity or freedom of thought, they expect everyone to do and say the things they declare to be acceptable based on their one ideological, and if you don't follow them sand their beliefs, you are a target to be attacked and destroyed. They attack and hate people for who they are, who they were born. As long as there are non-white people, gay people, or people that refuse to support the Alt-Right cause, then they will be hated.

If you can't see the difference in hating a person because of the political ideology they have chosen to push and hating someone because of who they are born, well then you have a problem.
The problem with you're explanation is that you think that White Nationalists hate people who are different from them, that they target people for intrinsic qualities over which they don't have any control. White Nationalists don't hate. Maybe Nazis and KKK do but White Nationalists want White ethnostates. That's all. No hate required for that. Condemning White Christians who want an ethnostate for their people is like condemning Zionists who want an ethnostate for their people.

Your description and defense of the Antifa is both insightful and problematic. Problematic in that it can easily be reworked as a defense of McCarthyism or the John Birch Society (if the JBS had been violent extremists). Watch:
AntiFa The John Birch Society are is against one particular ideological, Fascism Communism. The claim that they "have no tolerance for ideological diversity or freedom of thought" on totally incorrect. They have no tolerance for those that use that ideological diversity or freedom of thought to push Fascism Communism. AntiFa Birchers have no concerns if you want to be mainstream right-wing, libertarian, centre left or whatever, as long as you aren't supporting Fascism Communism. If those supporting Fascism Communism, stop doing so, then AntiFa Birchers will leave them alone. If supporters of Fascism Communism all stopped supporting it, or at least pushing for it openly and at the highest levels of Government, AntiFa Birchers would collapse and go away too. The things that AntiFa Birchers is against is something that people chose to be, it is what they are.
It's also insightful because it's true. There isn't any Communist movement to speak of anymore and that did cause the demise of the John Birch Society.

So what you have done here is argue that there's nothing wrong with hating communists with a passion and if it is necessary to beat up Jews who support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state to stop the spread of communism, then it is the moral thing to do.
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Old 12th August 2017, 10:16 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
Your description and defense of the Antifa is both insightful and problematic. Problematic in that it can easily be reworked as a defense of McCarthyism or the John Birch Society (if the JBS had been violent extremists). Watch:

It's only problematic if you willfully ignore the context. If, while opening a letter with a letter opener, I were to comment, "Letter openers are really nice," it would be rather absurd to respond to that by saying, "Your statement is problematic because a letter opener can also be used to stab someone in the eye."
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Old 12th August 2017, 10:28 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
The problem with you're explanation is that you think that White Nationalists hate people who are different from them, that they target people for intrinsic qualities over which they don't have any control. White Nationalists don't hate. Maybe Nazis and KKK do but White Nationalists want White ethnostates. That's all. No hate required for that. Condemning White Christians who want an ethnostate for their people is like condemning Zionists who want an ethnostate for their people.

Your description and defense of the Antifa is both insightful and problematic. Problematic in that it can easily be reworked as a defense of McCarthyism or the John Birch Society (if the JBS had been violent extremists). Watch:
AntiFa The John Birch Society are is against one particular ideological, Fascism Communism. The claim that they "have no tolerance for ideological diversity or freedom of thought" on totally incorrect. They have no tolerance for those that use that ideological diversity or freedom of thought to push Fascism Communism. AntiFa Birchers have no concerns if you want to be mainstream right-wing, libertarian, centre left or whatever, as long as you aren't supporting Fascism Communism. If those supporting Fascism Communism, stop doing so, then AntiFa Birchers will leave them alone. If supporters of Fascism Communism all stopped supporting it, or at least pushing for it openly and at the highest levels of Government, AntiFa Birchers would collapse and go away too. The things that AntiFa Birchers is against is something that people chose to be, it is what they are.
It's also insightful because it's true. There isn't any Communist movement to speak of anymore and that did cause the demise of the John Birch Society.

So what you have done here is argue that there's nothing wrong with hating communists with a passion and if it is necessary to beat up Jews who support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state to stop the spread of communism, then it is the moral thing to do.
Well, I wouldn't say that he is arguing that position. But the example is illustrative in demonstrating how dangerously broad an interpretation of any raison d'être can get.

But again, I recognize this is hardly the moment for making fine distinctions since there's a celebratory and affirming atmosphere towards punching Nazis. Pointing out warnings to heed just spoils the fun and revelry.

No, I am not any fun at parties in case you were wondering :9.
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Old 12th August 2017, 10:28 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
What do you mean by have value? If you have two people with one complaint that has value and one that doesn't, what do you do different?
I listen to the one who has the complaint which carries value. The other person I ignore or roll my eyes at.
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Old 12th August 2017, 10:32 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
It's only problematic if you willfully ignore the context. If, while opening a letter with a letter opener, I were to comment, "Letter openers are really nice," it would be rather absurd to respond to that by saying, "Your statement is problematic because a letter opener can also be used to stab someone in the eye."
Truth be told, it's only problematic if you think McCarthyism was a bad thing. I don't know what you're getting at with this letter opener analogy.
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Old 12th August 2017, 10:35 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Well, I wouldn't say that he is arguing that position. But the example is illustrative in demonstrating how dangerously broad an interpretation of any raison d'être can get.

But again, I recognize this is hardly the moment for making fine distinctions since there's a celebratory and affirming atmosphere towards punching Nazis. Pointing out warnings to heed just spoils the fun and revelry.

No, I am not any fun at parties in case you were wondering :9.
Would it still be fun if Zionists were called Nazis and then beating them up because, er, because they're Nazis?
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Old 12th August 2017, 10:45 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
Would it still be fun if Zionists were called Nazis and then beating them up because, er, because they're Nazis?
For you, it probably would be. For me, no.
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Old 12th August 2017, 10:49 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I'll let it go for this thread and just say I know lots of free-thinking anarchists and love them to pieces. I've also witnessed disturbing rationalizations for ever-expanding lists of valid "enemies" ('subjecting others to wage slavery and theft of the public commons!' or shopping at a store on the day they don't want you to) and criticism or objections to their methods is a good way to get there. Like any ideology, there is a militant fringe.
The problem here is that Anarchy != AntiFa, and AntiFa != Anarchy.

While there might be some cross over in groups, Anarchy is an Ideology, AntiFa is not, it's an opposition to an ideology. AntiFa members can have a diverse number of ideological backgrounds, the thing that holds them together is their hated of Fascism.

It's similar to the Allies during WW2 and the current Republican Party.

In WW2 the Allies were made up of a number of different countries with differing ideological ideas banded together to defeat the Axis countries.

Today we see a party that was glued together by their shared hate of anything Obama and Hillary struggling to actually govern because there is no shared ideology between those on the Centre Right Moderate Republicans and those on the Far Right Tea Party Republicans.

AntiFa is the same thing, hence why when the threat of Fascism is gone, it'll fall to pieces into arguing factions just as the WW2 Allies did. Being AntiFa doesn't give you anything to build an ideology around, just as the Republicans are finding when they try and build policy based on anti-Obama.
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Old 12th August 2017, 10:50 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
Would it still be fun if Zionists were called Nazis and then beating them up because, er, because they're Nazis?

Do you honestly think people are reacting to merely the word "Nazi"?
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Old 12th August 2017, 11:00 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
The problem with you're explanation is that you think that White Nationalists hate people who are different from them, that they target people for intrinsic qualities over which they don't have any control. White Nationalists don't hate. Maybe Nazis and KKK do but White Nationalists want White ethnostates. That's all. No hate required for that. Condemning White Christians who want an ethnostate for their people is like condemning Zionists who want an ethnostate for their people.
You're missing the crucial element in there though. Why do they want a White ethnostate if not for a fear of/hate of those that aren't white?

Quote:
Your description and defense of the Antifa is both insightful and problematic. Problematic in that it can easily be reworked as a defense of McCarthyism or the John Birch Society (if the JBS had been violent extremists).
The issue is that you're mixing the message and the methods. There is nothing wrong with being anti-communism, having a purge of anyone that is deemed to be one.... not so good. Likewise, nothing is wrong with being anti-Fascism, but if AntiFa were to call for a purge of all suspected Fascists, well that should be, and hopefully would be treated with the same disdain as we treat White Supremacists.

However, having said that, would you really say that McCarthyism was as bad as National Socialism, or that the JBS was as bad as the Nazis?

Quote:
So what you have done here is argue that there's nothing wrong with hating communists with a passion
Which is quite right. Nothing wrong with it and it used to be one of the USA's favourite pastimes.

Quote:
and if it is necessary to beat up Jews who support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state to stop the spread of communism, then it is the moral thing to do.
I think however that you will be hard pressed to show exactly where I said that the use of violence to push the message is in any way acceptable.
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