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Tags Matt Shea , religion and politics , The American Redoubt , Washington politics

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Old 16th December 2019, 10:07 AM   #121
Red Baron Farms
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Randy Weaver was No True Nazi and No True Christian. Got it.

Please cite a source for the claim that 50% of the people in Wyoming want to secede from the union.

Your strawmen about the death penalty and "pretending these sentiments don't exist" are kind of silly.
Not silly at all considering the results at Ruby Ridge, not a strawman at all considering the ROE approved prior to the fatal shooting of Vicki by a sniper round between the eyes.

Unless you approve of such things you must admit that an enforcement branch of the federal government became judge jury and executioner all rolled up in one skipping any trials.

Or perhaps you were naive enough to think government snipers accidentally go around executing unarmed US citizens holding babies in their arms?

As for the source it is compiled and adjusted from data obtained from Reuters polls by https://www.quora.com/profile/Chris-Rhodes-65. Personally I think the polls or his analysis might have gotten the numbers a bit high, but even considering all that it is profoundly disturbing to me.
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Old 16th December 2019, 10:23 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
As for the source it is compiled and adjusted from data obtained from Reuters polls by https://www.quora.com/profile/Chris-Rhodes-65. Personally I think the polls or his analysis might have gotten the numbers a bit high, but even considering all that it is profoundly disturbing to me.
Chris Rhodes went to a Reuters poll and extracted crosstabs with sample sizes too small to draw a conclusion, and you drew a conclusion.

Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms
And by the way, some states like Wyoming, the separatist movement is actually 50/50 in the population ... yeah that's right, very roughly just as many want to leave the US as stay.



Edited by Loss Leader:  Large image resized. Please use IMGW= tags for large images. The above is set to IMGW=600.

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Old 16th December 2019, 10:26 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Chris Rhodes went to a Reuters poll and extracted crosstabs with sample sizes too small to draw a conclusion, and you drew a conclusion.
Fair enough.
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Old 16th December 2019, 10:30 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post

Now if you prefer to simply call him names like some backwoods racist hick, I couldn't argue the case, but I would simply ask if this has a death penalty involved? Death to all racist rednecks, hillbillies and hicks?
Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
Not silly at all considering the results at Ruby Ridge, not a strawman at all considering the ROE approved prior to the fatal shooting of Vicki by a sniper round between the eyes.

Unless you approve of such things you must admit that an enforcement branch of the federal government became judge jury and executioner all rolled up in one skipping any trials.

Or perhaps you were naive enough to think government snipers accidentally go around executing unarmed US citizens holding babies in their arms?
Your claim - someone (?) says "Death to all racist rednecks, hillbillies and hicks" Who is that person? Where did they say this thing?

Your new strawman - if I don't believe that there is a death penalty for hillbillies, then I must be naive enough to believe that Vicki Weaver was an accidental shooting? That's obviously a false dichotomy; there are myriad details that you have not included in between the hillbilly death penalty and an accidental shooting.

Also, were you going to enlighten us with who and where folks are "pretending these sentiments don't even exist" in a thread where we are all discussing these sentiments?
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Old 16th December 2019, 10:32 AM   #125
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There are reputable polls showing that a sizable minority of people want their states to secede though I can't find one that addresses Wyoming specifically.

http://blogs.reuters.com/jamesrgaine...e-u-s-but-why/

It's more widespread then I would expect.
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Old 16th December 2019, 10:40 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Your claim - someone (?) says "Death to all racist rednecks, hillbillies and hicks" Who is that person? Where did they say this thing?
I was referencing actions by the government, not an individual persons words. Ever hear the old saying actions speak louder than words?

Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Don't confuse yourself. I am being frank and straightforward here. We are discussing things I find highly disturbing and that I absolutely don't approve of one bit. So it is very easy to just stop thinking and spout politically correct platitudes, I am resisting this and picking at that painful scab anyway.

There is a purpose too. The purpose is entirely benign. You can take that to the bank.

Speaking of which I got to go to the bank now. Be back in a few hours. Cheers.
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Old 16th December 2019, 11:07 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
There are reputable polls showing that a sizable minority of people want their states to secede though I can't find one that addresses Wyoming specifically.

http://blogs.reuters.com/jamesrgaine...e-u-s-but-why/

It's more widespread then I would expect.
Perhaps that would be the best outcome for all parties?

I could get behind an "American Friends of Idohoan/ Wyoming/ Oregonian independence" movement.
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Old 17th December 2019, 07:34 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Perhaps that would be the best outcome for all parties?

I could get behind an "American Friends of Idohoan/ Wyoming/ Oregonian independence" movement.
That would be eastern Oregon. West of the mountains in more liberal, especially the Portland metro area. It's why the state is reliably blue, not red.
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Old 18th December 2019, 05:39 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Perhaps that would be the best outcome for all parties?

I could get behind an "American Friends of Idohoan/ Wyoming/ Oregonian independence" movement.
Part of me would say "good riddance" and hope all the other white christian identity nutcases migrated to their new, independent holy land and left the rest of us alone.

You have to realize that anyone already living in that area that don't fall into the neat social boundaries they espouse would be in tremendous danger on day 1. I wouldn't want to be a Jew on the wrong side of that border. Definitely wouldn't want to be a woman there unless you really buy into that specific type of social order.

I can't imagine a group of white christian nutcases would make good neighbors. Whining about liberals in Seattle is a way of life for these people. How long before their total inability to run a society because a reason to start aggressing onto the rest of civilized world.
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Old 18th December 2019, 10:57 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Perhaps that would be the best outcome for all parties?

I could get behind an "American Friends of Idohoan/ Wyoming/ Oregonian independence" movement.
Oregon doesn't fit but you could throw in Montana and both Dakotas. That'd be about 15* less electoral votes for the R's.

*I didn't bother looking to see how many votes these states have but I assume three each.
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Old 18th December 2019, 11:19 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Oregon doesn't fit but you could throw in Montana and both Dakotas. That'd be about 15* less electoral votes for the R's.

*I didn't bother looking to see how many votes these states have but I assume three each.
Dakotas = out. At least according to John Rawles who conceived The American Redoubt.
Plains and steppes are tanker country. It is no coincidence that the armies of the world usually choose plains for their maneuver areas, for large scale war games. - Rawles
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Old 18th December 2019, 11:36 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Part of me would say "good riddance" and hope all the other white christian identity nutcases migrated to their new, independent holy land and left the rest of us alone.
Part of me would say that too. That's the part of me that isn't concerned about having maniacal neighbors who believe in second coming / end days ... possessing nukes.
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Old 18th December 2019, 11:43 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Dakotas = out. At least according to John Rawles who conceived The American Redoubt.
Plains and steppes are tanker country. It is no coincidence that the armies of the world usually choose plains for their maneuver areas, for large scale war games. - Rawles
It would be interesting to see Lincoln replaced with Reagan on Mt. Rushmore though.
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Old 18th December 2019, 12:04 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Part of me would say that too. That's the part of me that isn't concerned about having maniacal neighbors who believe in second coming / end days ... possessing nukes.
I mean, apocalyptic fetishization and intense aggression seems to be at the root of the ideology, so you know, ya. Not really something we want to entertain.
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Old 20th December 2019, 05:00 AM   #135
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The investigation of Shea was delivered to the House a couple of weeks ago and has now been released to the public. Quote...

Finding #1 ... participated in an act of domestic terrorism against the United States by his actions before and during the armed takeover and standoff at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge...

Finding #2 ... engaged in intimidation tactics against a political opponent

Finding #3 ... condoned political violence and intimidation, and offered to do background checks on named persons in opposition to his political ideology

Finding #4 ... condoned intimidation by supporters of his political opposition to include activists, government officials, Muslims, and others who speak or act in opposition to his personal beliefs and political agenda

Finding #5 ... engaged in counterintelligence gathering and acted in opposition to the lawful efforts of federal, state, and local law enforcement

Finding #6 ... engaged in and supported the training of youth and young adults to fight a Holy war

Finding #7 ... wrote the Biblical Basis for War and advocated the replacement of US democracy with a theocracy and the killing of all males who do not agree.

Finding #8 ... engaged in and promoted annual Patriot Movement militia training and readiness in support of anticipated armed conflicts against federal, state and local governments and law enforcement.

* * *

Typos are probably mine.
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Old 20th December 2019, 05:06 AM   #136
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And the reactions...

Quote:
Immediately after the report was released, Rep. J.T. Wilcox, the Republican minority leader of the House, said Shea “has been suspended from any role in the House Republican Caucus.”

“He should resign,” Wilcox wrote on Twitter. “He cannot use House Republican staff, he cannot meet with the caucus, his office will be moved.” Shea’s name and picture were removed from the House GOP website.

Shea said he would not step down, calling the investigation a “sham.”
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Old 20th December 2019, 05:09 AM   #137
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Resign?
He needs to be put in Guantanamo!
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Old 20th December 2019, 07:14 AM   #138
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I was reading this morning that he has already invoked the Trumpster.
Perhaps "fake news" and "witch hunt" are not far behind?

ETA, and of course, he can't forget "no collusion"
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Old 20th December 2019, 07:46 AM   #139
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I mentioned this in the impeachment thread, not realizing it was the guy featured in this thread.

"Late Thursday, there was a Facebook post that appeared to be from Shea, saying in part, "Like we are seeing with our President this is a sham investigation meant to silence those of us who stand up against attempts to disarm and destroy our great country. I will not back down, I will not give in, I will not resign.""
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Old 20th December 2019, 07:48 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
I mentioned this in the impeachment thread, not realizing it was the guy featured in this thread.

"Late Thursday, there was a Facebook post that appeared to be from Shea, saying in part, "Like we are seeing with our President this is a sham investigation meant to silence those of us who stand up against attempts to disarm and destroy our great country. I will not back down, I will not give in, I will not resign.""
Never give up, never surrender!
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Old 21st December 2019, 12:17 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Resign?
He needs to be put in Guantanamo!
Yeah, I don't understand why he isn't being charged with a crime yet.

And the way he and his buddies are still running around with assault weapons, I hope the police or FBI are paying attention.
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Old 21st December 2019, 12:21 AM   #142
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On a separate note, what a weird sex fetish, kill the men. Does he expect to round up the women?
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Old 21st December 2019, 12:23 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
On a separate note, what a weird sex fetish, kill the men. Does he expect to round up the women?
It's right out of the old testament.
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Old 21st December 2019, 08:13 AM   #144
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Shea in a new interview, quite appropriately conducted by an outlet called Redoubt News. link Scroll down a little bit.

A few minutes of the nuts fawning over one another. Leftist propaganda. Complaining about the cost of the investigation. Complaining that Shea has had more news stories about him than other people. (People who presumably haven't advocated mass murder.) Shea whining. A lot, with a very whiny voice. "Tho comparisons between you and President Trump are getting spooky". Etc.
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Old 21st December 2019, 12:14 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Never give up, never surrender!
This has become the new approach for when one is caught doing something reprehensible: just lie and deny the accusation no matter the evidence. Continue to do so no matter what happens. It doesn't matter if you committed the act on video tape in front of 150 witnesses and it is also documented by 232 physical pieces of evidence. Just deny it. It doesn't even matter if you previously acknowledged the truth of the charges yesterday. Just deny it now. Amazingly this appears to often work among one's dedicated supporters!

Who would have predicted that a line based on a Marx Brothers film, "Who do you believe, me or your lying eyes?" would no longer be a joke?
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Old 22nd December 2019, 09:33 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
This has become the new approach for when one is caught doing something reprehensible: just lie and deny the accusation no matter the evidence. Continue to do so no matter what happens. It doesn't matter if you committed the act on video tape in front of 150 witnesses and it is also documented by 232 physical pieces of evidence. Just deny it. It doesn't even matter if you previously acknowledged the truth of the charges yesterday. Just deny it now. Amazingly this appears to often work among one's dedicated supporters!

Who would have predicted that a line based on a Marx Brothers film, "Who do you believe, me or your lying eyes?" would no longer be a joke?
The GOP in Washington State recognize that Shea is a problem for them. But they don't have the balls to do anything about him. They face the same problem with Shea that the GOP nationwide have with Trump. The party has become a coalition of moneyed, low tax, laissez faire citizens, religious zealots, gun nuts and now conspiracy theorists. And they need them all to compete. They can ill-afford to alienate the nut jobs. There was a time when the big money could humor these people and keep the status quo.
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Old 22nd December 2019, 09:59 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
The GOP in Washington State recognize that Shea is a problem for them. But they don't have the balls to do anything about him. They face the same problem with Shea that the GOP nationwide have with Trump. The party has become a coalition of moneyed, low tax, laissez faire citizens, religious zealots, gun nuts and now conspiracy theorists. And they need them all to compete. They can ill-afford to alienate the nut jobs. There was a time when the big money could humor these people and keep the status quo.
Far be it for me to defend these people but -- endorsing the investigation, expelling him from the party, removing his furniture, denying him party resources, and demanding his resignation is something.
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Old 22nd December 2019, 10:56 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Far be it for me to defend these people but -- endorsing the investigation, expelling him from the party, removing his furniture, denying him party resources, and demanding his resignation is something.
They could impeached and disqualify Shea from holding a public office in the State of Washington.

And no offense intended, but Matt Shea has been a well known nutjob and a GOP embarrassment for years. The representative has had multiple run-ins with Spokane area law officials. The party has been asked quite a few times to disown him and they haven't.
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Old 22nd December 2019, 11:06 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
They could impeached and disqualify Shea from holding a public office in the State of Washington.
There's no impeachment per se. He can be expelled by a 2/3 vote.

Regardless, I was simply pointing out that you were wrong when you said they didn't do anything.
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Old 22nd December 2019, 11:22 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
There's no impeachment per se. He can be expelled by a 2/3 vote.

Regardless, I was simply pointing out that you were wrong when you said they didn't do anything.
I added something to my post before you made yours. This guy has been a whacko and in the the Washington State House as a Republican for a while. But you're right. They finally did something about Shea. He'll be gone. Shea left them no choice.
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Old 28th December 2019, 11:25 AM   #151
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Random Shea goings on...

He's wrapping himself around fellow witch hunt victim Donald Trump.
Originally Posted by Shea
There’s a few of us that are standing in the gap. Trump is one of them. It’s not about him it’s not about me, it’s about all of us. They’re attacking the values that really make America great and that’s what really this is all about.
Two elected officials have expressed support --- the mayor of Spokane Valley and state rep Jesse Young. I was surprised to learn that Young represents a purple district in Kitsap County west of the mountains, and that he has his own noxious baggage (that is nowhere near Shea's). The virtue of self-proclaimed Christian conservatives.

Shea vows not to resign. It will be interesting to see if he gets re-elected.
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Old 28th December 2019, 11:40 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I was surprised to learn that Young represents a purple district in Kitsap County west of the mountains, and that he has his own noxious baggage (that is nowhere near Shea's). The virtue of self-proclaimed Christian conservatives.
I'm not. Isn't the stereotype that people are weird on the peninsula? It's certainly been my experience, and Kitsap county is somewhat more specifically known for that kind of thing. IIRC, just after the Trump election, there were spikes of hate crime, and the KKK started putting up flyers everywhere.

Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Shea vows not to resign. It will be interesting to see if he gets re-elected.
I wouldn't be surprised given how that kind of voter loves a victimhood narrative.
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Old 28th December 2019, 11:53 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
the mayor of Spokane Valley

Recent link about him.



https://www.khq.com/news/khq-exclusi...fb7d03056.html
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Old 28th December 2019, 12:10 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by ArchSas View Post
I'm not. Isn't the stereotype that people are weird on the peninsula? It's certainly been my experience, and Kitsap county is somewhat more specifically known for that kind of thing. IIRC, just after the Trump election, there were spikes of hate crime, and the KKK started putting up flyers everywhere.



I wouldn't be surprised given how that kind of voter loves a victimhood narrative.
Lots of military and former military in Kitsap, including at least one poster here. They tend to lean conservative.
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Old 28th December 2019, 12:16 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by ArchSas View Post
I'm not. Isn't the stereotype that people are weird on the peninsula? It's certainly been my experience, and Kitsap county is somewhat more specifically known for that kind of thing. IIRC, just after the Trump election, there were spikes of hate crime, and the KKK started putting up flyers everywhere.
I lived in Kitsap for 20+ years. (Though that was on Bainbridge Island, which is thoroughly non representative of the county.) Even though there is that element in Kitsap, it's a purple county and I don't expect elected officials to be that type of crazy.
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Old 28th December 2019, 12:20 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I lived in Kitsap for 20+ years. (Though that was on Bainbridge Island, which is thoroughly non representative of the county.) Even though there is that element in Kitsap, it's a purple county and I don't expect elected officials to be that type of crazy.

Would you have any idea how extensive the Christian Identity movement actually is?
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Old 28th December 2019, 12:26 PM   #157
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No.
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Old 28th December 2019, 02:13 PM   #158
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"I stand with you brother"
- Jesse Young
WA state rep

Amusingly(?) Young is (was?) barred from supervising his own staff until he takes an anger management class, which he declined to take. How very odd.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...rvising-staff/
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Old 30th December 2019, 08:38 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Thanks. The article closes with him saying to "ask anyone; they'll tell you: I'm not racist." This from a guy who, when searching his mind for an example for the unfair treatment of a white supremacist state rep, says "the police should have shot Rodney King." Which was an analogy and taken out of context. It's always the not-racist people who use language like this.

Last edited by carlitos; 30th December 2019 at 08:39 AM. Reason: fixed quote
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Old 31st December 2019, 03:35 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
That would be eastern Oregon. West of the mountains in more liberal, especially the Portland metro area. It's why the state is reliably blue, not red.
It's not just the right;a few on the left have floated the idea of a "Pacifica" basically the West Coast States and Hawaii forming a independent country.
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