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Tags Matt Shea , religion and politics , The American Redoubt , Washington politics

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Old 31st December 2019, 03:39 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
There's no impeachment per se. He can be expelled by a 2/3 vote.

Regardless, I was simply pointing out that you were wrong when you said they didn't do anything.
I suspect expulsion might be the next step. I suspect the state GOP would be happy to get rid of him.
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Old 31st December 2019, 03:40 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Never give up, never surrender!
Worked for Winston CHuchill facing Nazi Germany in 1940, won' t work for this Neo Nazi nutjob.
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Old 31st December 2019, 03:44 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Random Shea goings on...

He's wrapping himself around fellow witch hunt victim Donald Trump.
Two elected officials have expressed support --- the mayor of Spokane Valley and state rep Jesse Young. I was surprised to learn that Young represents a purple district in Kitsap County west of the mountains, and that he has his own noxious baggage (that is nowhere near Shea's). The virtue of self-proclaimed Christian conservatives.

Shea vows not to resign. It will be interesting to see if he gets re-elected.
Shea is such an obvious nutjob that even Donniw will not want to be identified with him.
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Old 31st December 2019, 04:20 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I suspect expulsion might be the next step. I suspect the state GOP would be happy to get rid of him.
Only because he's an embarrassment, not because he's wrong.

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Shea is such an obvious nutjob that even Donniw will not want to be identified with him.
Donnie still has Stephen Miller on his staff. He's every bit as loony as Shea, and far more dangerous.
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Old 31st December 2019, 08:27 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I suspect expulsion might be the next step. I suspect the state GOP would be happy to get rid of him.
There's plenty of deep woods and guns in backwoods Kitsap. And Shea is entitled to say what he thinks. But perhaps he could do us a favor? It would be a shame if anything bad happened to him on a long night-time hike...
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Old 31st December 2019, 10:39 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
There's plenty of deep woods and guns in backwoods Kitsap. And Shea is entitled to say what he thinks. But perhaps he could do us a favor? It would be a shame if anything bad happened to him on a long night-time hike...
He's in the Spokane vicinity, when not in Olympia, so he'll probably not be wandering Kitsap. But I'll be careful on my next visit.
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Old 1st January 2020, 02:58 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
He's in the Spokane vicinity, when not in Olympia, so he'll probably not be wandering Kitsap. But I'll be careful on my next visit.
Even better. Deeper woods, steeper cliffs. Even more places where it would be a shame if he got lost there.
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Old 1st January 2020, 08:34 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
...Shea is entitled to say what he thinks. But perhaps he could do us a favor? It would be a shame if anything bad happened to him on a long night-time hike...
While this needs to be sorted out by the law, saying what he thinks isnt neccesarily a free pass when said speech conspires against the government, encourages violence, intimidates opponents, etc.

(And just to keep things real in terms of the lay of the land, Kitsap is more forested than Spokane Valley by far.)
...

According to the investigation, Shea intends to be the leader of Christopia once the will of god plays out. Blessed day.
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Old 1st January 2020, 08:43 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Only because he's an embarrassment, not because he's wrong.
Far be it for me to defend these characters but this isnt realistic. The fringe of the fringe is a step too far for most WA state elected GOP officials.
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Old 1st January 2020, 11:09 AM   #170
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From the report, other state reps who actively conspired with Shea on Malheur:

Heather Scott, ID
Michele Fiore, NV
Graham Hunt, WA
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Old 1st January 2020, 11:43 AM   #171
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Fixed it for me...

Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
From the report, other state reps who actively conspired with Shea on Malheur:

Heather Scott, ID
Michele Fiore, NV
former rep Graham Hunt, WA
He resigned in 2016 when it was revealed that he lied about being in the marines and being wounded in combat.
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Old 2nd January 2020, 07:50 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Shea is such an obvious nutjob that even Donniw will not want to be identified with him.
I think you are wrong. Shea is exactly the white Christian identity type that Trump is going to go hard for in 2020. If the WA GOP expell him (which I do not expect because the GOP has gone full nutso everywhere) then Trump definitely will bring him into his administration and put him where he can do the most damage.
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Old 2nd January 2020, 11:58 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
How many of them are there? A dozen? A hundred?

Reckon the local Boy Scouts could take them down no problem.
Concerning the standoff in Nevada in 2014 supporting Cliven Bundy, from the report (page 12):
At the time Representative Shea published his call to arms, there were approximately 100 local protesters onsite. Less than 24 hours after his call to arms, approximately 1500 armed militia members were onsite in Bunkerville, Nevada armed and ready to fight the Federal Government.
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Old 3rd January 2020, 04:16 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I think you are wrong. Shea is exactly the white Christian identity type that Trump is going to go hard for in 2020. If the WA GOP expell him (which I do not expect because the GOP has gone full nutso everywhere) then Trump definitely will bring him into his administration and put him where he can do the most damage.
I don't like Trump anymore then you do, but you are just plain wrong here.
Shea has become too toxic even for Trump.
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Old 3rd January 2020, 04:17 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Far be it for me to defend these characters but this isnt realistic. The fringe of the fringe is a step too far for most WA state elected GOP officials.
Even among Right Wing evagelicals, Christian Identity is generally considered as a bunch of craziness.
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Old 6th January 2020, 10:20 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Originally Posted by Travis
I think you are wrong. Shea is exactly the white Christian identity type that Trump is going to go hard for in 2020. If the WA GOP expell him (which I do not expect because the GOP has gone full nutso everywhere) then Trump definitely will bring him into his administration and put him where he can do the most damage.
I don't like Trump anymore then you do, but you are just plain wrong here.
Shea has become too toxic even for Trump.
Toxic or not, theorizing that Trump is going to appoint some nobody from nowheresville to his administration is a fantasy. Stephen Miller is the closest analogue and he was the chief of staff to Trump's appointed Attorney General back in his home state. Steve Bannon might be another example, and he was the head of Brietbart and had Hollywood and investment banking experience.

Shea is no one of [eta - national / political] consequence; there is no benefit to Trump to deal with this guy when he has much bigger players available to him. Travis is projecting his worst fears onto reality. "Where he can do the most damage" would be what - Secretary of something? This nobody? Come on.

**ETA - obviously he's "of consequence," just not on a national scale enough to attract the attention of Trump. Shea appearing at the Malheur Wildlife Refuge helped attract more than 1000 "patriots" there.

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Old 8th January 2020, 08:51 AM   #177
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Despite the revelations, the support pours in.

Quote:
Though mired in a series of jaw-dropping, medieval scandals about how he’s planning for Biblical holy war and fomenting “end of days” armed standoffs with the feds, Shea so far has received the second-most individual campaign donations of any state House Republican, behind only the House Minority Leader, Rep. JT Wilcox.
link
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Old 8th January 2020, 08:55 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
**ETA - obviously he's "of consequence," just not on a national scale enough to attract the attention of Trump. Shea appearing at the Malheur Wildlife Refuge helped attract more than 1000 "patriots" there.
He did far more than appear. He was the mastermind and a participant.
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Old 8th January 2020, 08:56 AM   #179
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I've never even heard of this guy.
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Old 9th January 2020, 11:50 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
I've never even heard of this guy.
Now that you have, what do you think of him?
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Old 9th January 2020, 08:54 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
A new document has emerged via a former member of Shea's security team:

I'm still looking for the actual document...
Here is an article linking to "Restoration", in which Shea outlines how things will work in the Redoubt after the war / secession.

He repeatedly refers to "Limas". Clearly by inference, they are enemies of the Redoubt, however I don't know the defining characteristics. Anyone ever seen this term?
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Old 10th January 2020, 08:01 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Here is an article linking to "Restoration", in which Shea outlines how things will work in the Redoubt after the war / secession.

He repeatedly refers to "Limas". Clearly by inference, they are enemies of the Redoubt, however I don't know the defining characteristics. Anyone ever seen this term?
Google's not much help.

I'm fairly certain this isn't a reference to either the capital of Peru, a city in Ohio, or a use of the Spanish word for "lime".

There's an acronym "Least Invasive, Mentally Aversive" behaviour, but that doesn't seem to fit.

In any event, his outline for the Redoubt is a recipe for a failed state. It shows a remarkable lack of understanding of how governments work, how economies work, etc.

Every section in the plan would lead to failure in fairly short order. A few examples are:

a. The move to a specie based monetary system - that should limit economic growth to levels lower than Somalia;
b. A militia based military system with elected officers (which was proven incredibly ineffective in the War of 1812),;
c. The elimination of a system of legal precedent for judicial findings;
d. The initial elimination of all non-criminal law (which coincides with a move to recognize property rights) is a recipe for confusion of land ownership, etc.; and
e. The simultaneous promotion of the Christian religion and individual freedom of religion, provided that you aren't atheist would be hilarious if it wasn't a recipe for lots of people being rounded up for not being Christian.
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Old 10th January 2020, 08:20 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Here is an article linking to "Restoration", in which Shea outlines how things will work in the Redoubt after the war / secession.

He repeatedly refers to "Limas". Clearly by inference, they are enemies of the Redoubt, however I don't know the defining characteristics. Anyone ever seen this term?
Ugh. In 2 consecutive lines, he calls them Limas and Lima's. An extremist who can't correctly use the apostrophe - this has got to be a first.

I have heard preppers refer to "Patriots vs Limas" ... looks like a Washington author named Glen Tate has a book series where that's the conflict. I would quote from a review, but most of the linked reviews are video reviews on youtube, which is a sign of a good readable book!



In the book 299 Days, The Restoration, by Glen Tate:

Quote:
When the Patriots finally launch their strike against the Loyalists, Grant Matson’s leadership, bravery, and training are put to the ultimate test. The 17th Irregulars are teamed up with regular military units and they must put their differences aside in order to successfully overthrow the Limas.
While the battle rages on, the Loyalists outside of Olympia start to pay the price for their allegiances to the wrong side of the Collapse, while well-intentioned others welcome the beginning of New Washington that recognizes fairness and hard work.

The battle winds down and a new day begins as the Team recognizes that victory does not come without loss. Grant, now a celebrated war hero, is not without his own personal hardships, and fears facing a new life without his family.
I peeked inside a few other books in this series, and the Limas appear to be the regular government forces that the irregular patriots are fighting. In one story, they have Assyrian "code-talkers" like the Navajo in WWII. The hero at one point tells them that they were successful because, to the Limas, they looked like Arabs, even though they were Assyrian Christians. The Limas were on the lookout for white men in "don't treat on me" t-shirts, not Arabs. Brilliant!




ETA - my best guess - "Lima" is military / police radio code for the letter "L" and refers to Loyalists.

Last edited by carlitos; 10th January 2020 at 08:25 AM.
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Old 10th January 2020, 10:09 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Ugh. In 2 consecutive lines, he calls them Limas and Lima's. An extremist who can't correctly use the apostrophe - this has got to be a first.

I have heard preppers refer to "Patriots vs Limas" ... looks like a Washington author named Glen Tate has a book series where that's the conflict. I would quote from a review, but most of the linked reviews are video reviews on youtube, which is a sign of a good readable book!



In the book 299 Days, The Restoration, by Glen Tate:



I peeked inside a few other books in this series, and the Limas appear to be the regular government forces that the irregular patriots are fighting. In one story, they have Assyrian "code-talkers" like the Navajo in WWII. The hero at one point tells them that they were successful because, to the Limas, they looked like Arabs, even though they were Assyrian Christians. The Limas were on the lookout for white men in "don't treat on me" t-shirts, not Arabs. Brilliant!




ETA - my best guess - "Lima" is military / police radio code for the letter "L" and refers to Loyalists.
I came across the same book series while also trying to figure "Lima" out. It seems like an... interesting Turner Diaries-esque fantasy geared towards the Matt Shea-types and other "patriots." In a sure sign of the quality of the writing, despite using the term frequently, I couldn't find anywhere (using google books' search function) where the term is actually defined or explained. I also had a hunch it was related to phonetics and thought it might be intended to mean "liberals," "leftists," or something like that, but I think you might have it right with "loyalists." It fits the usage like you quoted, and also makes more sense in regards to references to "Lima fortifications" and related things.
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Old 10th January 2020, 10:41 AM   #185
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Old 10th January 2020, 05:03 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Here is an article linking to "Restoration", in which Shea outlines how things will work in the Redoubt after the war / secession.

He repeatedly refers to "Limas". Clearly by inference, they are enemies of the Redoubt, however I don't know the defining characteristics. Anyone ever seen this term?
Only in reference to beans....
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Old 10th January 2020, 05:04 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
Google's not much help.

I'm fairly certain this isn't a reference to either the capital of Peru, a city in Ohio, or a use of the Spanish word for "lime".

There's an acronym "Least Invasive, Mentally Aversive" behaviour, but that doesn't seem to fit.

In any event, his outline for the Redoubt is a recipe for a failed state. It shows a remarkable lack of understanding of how governments work, how economies work, etc.

Every section in the plan would lead to failure in fairly short order. A few examples are:

a. The move to a specie based monetary system - that should limit economic growth to levels lower than Somalia;
b. A militia based military system with elected officers (which was proven incredibly ineffective in the War of 1812),;
c. The elimination of a system of legal precedent for judicial findings;
d. The initial elimination of all non-criminal law (which coincides with a move to recognize property rights) is a recipe for confusion of land ownership, etc.; and
e. The simultaneous promotion of the Christian religion and individual freedom of religion, provided that you aren't atheist would be hilarious if it wasn't a recipe for lots of people being rounded up for not being Christian.
Did not work very well in the Civil War as well.....
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Old 10th January 2020, 09:35 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Did not work very well in the Civil War as well.....
Pretty lousy in the Revolutinary War too, except in those rare cases where they were used in limited fashion. Or were able to fight loyalist militia instead of Regular crown forces.

The reason Joseph Plum Martin wrote his book is because in the Years after the war the militias tried to claim they did all the work while the Continental Army just dithered and wasted time in Winter camps.
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Old 11th January 2020, 11:05 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Did not work very well in the Civil War as well.....
By the USCW, I'm unaware of any nation states other than the US and its unsuccessful traitors using popular votes as a system for determining who gets to be the officer. There may be a reason for that.
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Old 11th January 2020, 01:07 PM   #190
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This may be the Lima reference. It appears to be a statement of Christian faith that is at odds with the Identitarian. In other words, everybody else but them.
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Old 11th January 2020, 01:52 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
This may be the Lima reference. It appears to be a statement of Christian faith that is at odds with the Identitarian. In other words, everybody else but them.

Doesn't appear to say anything on any subject an "Identitarian" would care about. What do you think "is at odds"?
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Old 11th January 2020, 02:17 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Doesn't appear to say anything on any subject an "Identitarian" would care about. What do you think "is at odds"?
It seems to be about various shades of Christianity, particularly Protestant sectarianism. Identitarians seem to be an extremely swivel-eyed variant at the far right end of them all. As with all the different Baptist sects, none of them seem to agree on what they accept as "true Baptist". They all claim they are the "true believers" and will fight any naysayers to the death. So the Identitarians lump everybody else but themselves together under a convenient sobriquet. It's sort of like calling all Arabs "ragheads".
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Old 12th January 2020, 03:43 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Did not work very well in the Civil War as well.....
Jiminy Cricket! I’m 4-F on a couple of different counts and even I can see that that is a formula for failure. Is there a formal impeachment process for removing the elected officer after half the company is killed because of poor planning? Or is it more of a fragging-thing?
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Old 12th January 2020, 06:51 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
By the USCW, I'm unaware of any nation states other than the US and its unsuccessful traitors using popular votes as a system for determining who gets to be the officer. There may be a reason for that.
Didn't this briefly happen in the French Navy following the French revolution? It may have happened in the army too but I only read naval historical romances.
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Old 13th January 2020, 08:35 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Ugh. In 2 consecutive lines, he calls them Limas and Lima's. An extremist who can't correctly use the apostrophe - this has got to be a first.

I have heard preppers refer to "Patriots vs Limas" ... looks like a Washington author named Glen Tate has a book series where that's the conflict. I would quote from a review, but most of the linked reviews are video reviews on youtube, which is a sign of a good readable book!



In the book 299 Days, The Restoration, by Glen Tate:



I peeked inside a few other books in this series, and the Limas appear to be the regular government forces that the irregular patriots are fighting. In one story, they have Assyrian "code-talkers" like the Navajo in WWII. The hero at one point tells them that they were successful because, to the Limas, they looked like Arabs, even though they were Assyrian Christians. The Limas were on the lookout for white men in "don't treat on me" t-shirts, not Arabs. Brilliant!




ETA - my best guess - "Lima" is military / police radio code for the letter "L" and refers to Loyalists.
Shea is ALL about that book. I bet this is the origin.

(I did learn that Patriot's wide receiver Julian Edleman was dating someone named Adriana Lima.)
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Old 13th January 2020, 08:40 AM   #196
RecoveringYuppy
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
It seems to be about various shades of Christianity, particularly Protestant sectarianism. Identitarians seem to be an extremely swivel-eyed variant at the far right end of them all. As with all the different Baptist sects, none of them seem to agree on what they accept as "true Baptist". They all claim they are the "true believers" and will fight any naysayers to the death. So the Identitarians lump everybody else but themselves together under a convenient sobriquet. It's sort of like calling all Arabs "ragheads".

None of that has much relation to the document you cited.
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Old 13th January 2020, 08:44 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post

I have heard preppers refer to "Patriots vs Limas" ... looks like a Washington author named Glen Tate has a book series where that's the conflict. I would quote from a review, but most of the linked reviews are video reviews on youtube, which is a sign of a good readable book!

In the book 299 Days, The Restoration, by Glen Tate:

I peeked inside a few other books in this series, and the Limas appear to be the regular government forces that the irregular patriots are fighting. In one story, they have Assyrian "code-talkers" like the Navajo in WWII. The hero at one point tells them that they were successful because, to the Limas, they looked like Arabs, even though they were Assyrian Christians. The Limas were on the lookout for white men in "don't treat on me" t-shirts, not Arabs. Brilliant!

I thought this had been cited already and went looking for it and here it is right on this page.
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Old 13th January 2020, 04:01 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Pretty lousy in the Revolutinary War too, except in those rare cases where they were used in limited fashion. Or were able to fight loyalist militia instead of Regular crown forces.

The reason Joseph Plum Martin wrote his book is because in the Years after the war the militias tried to claim they did all the work while the Continental Army just dithered and wasted time in Winter camps.
I cannot recommend Martin's book enough. It a really great "worm's eye view" of the American Revolution from the the common soldier, the Grunt/GI of the Amereican Revolution perspective.
Available for free download and/or a couple of bucks (for a probably better formatted edition) on Kindle.
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Old 13th January 2020, 04:05 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
Jiminy Cricket! I’m 4-F on a couple of different counts and even I can see that that is a formula for failure. Is there a formal impeachment process for removing the elected officer after half the company is killed because of poor planning? Or is it more of a fragging-thing?
In reality, there was a gradual weeding out process where the incomptents were removed and more competent commanders put in. Once the units were in Federal Service, people with a Regular Army background pretty much ran the show.
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Old 13th January 2020, 04:06 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
By the USCW, I'm unaware of any nation states other than the US and its unsuccessful traitors using popular votes as a system for determining who gets to be the officer. There may be a reason for that.
Irony is the COnfederates were quicker to weed out the incompetents on the regimental level then the Union army was.
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