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Tags 2020 elections , democratic party , presidential candidates

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Old 13th February 2020, 12:13 PM   #2361
angrysoba
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It will be interesting to see his response to this.

Sadly, Obama had the same attitude, bailing out the banks and not the borrowers, saying the banks' failing was too dangerous for society.
If Obama did it, it canít be too bad electorally speaking.
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Old 13th February 2020, 12:14 PM   #2362
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It will be interesting to see his response to this.

Sadly, Obama had the same attitude, bailing out the banks and not the borrowers, saying the banks' failing was too dangerous for society.
Bailing out the banks was controversial, but advocating for redlining is positively radioactive.

A case could be made that bailing out the banks was the right move, even if the failure was the banks fault.

Bloomberg's speech is big bank apologism. I don't know how to interpret this as other than saying irresponsible, poor, and mostly brown people caused the crises with their bad decision making.
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Old 13th February 2020, 12:15 PM   #2363
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Umm.... If it was meant as sarcasm, then ignore what I just said.
Pretty sure there were some hints in there.
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Old 13th February 2020, 12:23 PM   #2364
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
If Obama did it, it canít be too bad electorally speaking.
Obama hid it until after he was elected.

Don't get me wrong, Obama had a lot of very good qualities. And Clinton may have done something similar but she would have gotten a whole lot more flak for it.

We'll see if Bloomberg can overcome a lot of these past policies, all on video. I suspect he can. He has a team of marketers.
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Old 13th February 2020, 12:28 PM   #2365
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Bailing out the banks was controversial, but advocating for redlining is positively radioactive.

A case could be made that bailing out the banks was the right move, even if the failure was the banks fault.

Bloomberg's speech is big bank apologism. I don't know how to interpret this as other than saying irresponsible, poor, and mostly brown people caused the crises with their bad decision making.
I don't hear "advocating for redlining" standing out in that video. I hear advocating for the government not interfering in bank decisions.

But, that Republican end-all-regulations belief stands out clear as a bell. Bloomberg may not roll back all the damage Trump has done with deregulation.

And that's very bad.
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Old 13th February 2020, 12:35 PM   #2366
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I don't hear "advocating for redlining" standing out in that video. I hear advocating for the government not interfering in bank decisions.

But, that Republican end-all-regulations belief stands out clear as a bell. Bloomberg may not roll back all the damage Trump has done with deregulation.

And that's very bad.

Seems pretty clear to me.

Quote:
Couldn't find a transcript, here's a brief version I typed up from a couple listens.

Interview: How did we get here, what are the root causes?

Bloomberg: It all started back when there was a lot of pressure to make loans to everyone. Redlining was the term...etc etc.
Nobody but a Republican ghoul thinks the mortgage crisis was caused by the banks not being able to engage in discriminatory lending.
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Old 13th February 2020, 12:54 PM   #2367
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
ETA: I was assuming your posting was an honest statement. If it was meant as sarcasm, then ignore what I just said.
I sincerely appreciate the assumption. I will try harder to make my sarcasm more blatant, but damn if it isn't tough these days.
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Old 13th February 2020, 12:56 PM   #2368
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Seems pretty clear to me.



Nobody but a Republican ghoul thinks the mortgage crisis was caused by the banks not being able to engage in discriminatory lending.
The solution to every problem is figuring out which poor people to blame and then finding out how to blame them. This is why problem solving is such hard work.
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Old 13th February 2020, 01:12 PM   #2369
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
The solution to every problem is figuring out which poor people to blame and then finding out how to blame them. This is why problem solving is such hard work.
Problem solving would be so much easier if all those single mothers on Medicaid weren't using up resources.
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Old 13th February 2020, 01:31 PM   #2370
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Re: Rush Lymphnode anti-gay rhetoric and Trump's responsibility...
Quote:
ETA: I was assuming your posting was an honest statement. If it was meant as sarcasm, then ignore what I just said.
I sincerely appreciate the assumption. I will try harder to make my sarcasm more blatant, but damn if it isn't tough these days.
Well, for the record, I never thought you were a Trumper.

But, I did not know whether you knew about Trump's awarding of the Medal of Freedom.

And I don't think its fair to judge a leader by the bad acts of a follower, if the leader has done noting to condone those bad acts.
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Old 13th February 2020, 02:14 PM   #2371
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Well, for the record, I never thought you were a Trumper.
I didn't take it that way at all.
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Old 13th February 2020, 02:32 PM   #2372
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Seems pretty clear to me.

Nobody but a Republican ghoul thinks the mortgage crisis was caused by the banks not being able to engage in discriminatory lending.
I'm not saying the word 'redlining' wasn't there. I'm saying it was government regulations Bloomberg was on about, not discrimination. And it was poor credit risks he had an issue with.

As for getting the cause of the 2008 recession wrong, that he did. And lack of regulations was the problem, not the underlying cause.
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Old 13th February 2020, 02:34 PM   #2373
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I sincerely appreciate the assumption. I will try harder to make my sarcasm more blatant, but damn if it isn't tough these days.
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Old 13th February 2020, 04:10 PM   #2374
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elect...cid=spartanntp

Quote:
Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) has opened up a double-digit lead over his next closest rivals in a new national survey.

The latest Morning Consult poll finds Sanders at 29 percent support, followed by former Vice President Joe Biden at 19 percent and former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg at 18 percent. Sanders gained 3 points in the poll after winning the New Hampshire primary this week, while Biden lost 3 points after a disastrous fifth-place showing.
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Old 13th February 2020, 04:12 PM   #2375
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Admit it or not, "Pocahontas" is absolutely brilliant.
Opinions are not facts.
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Old 13th February 2020, 04:21 PM   #2376
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Admit it or not, "Pocahontas" is absolutely brilliant.
No. I think it is childish and beneath the dignity of an adult let alone a President or Presidential candidate.
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Old 13th February 2020, 04:51 PM   #2377
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Polling for Sanders shows him way in the lead in Nevada. Despite all the BS about white Bernie Bros, Sanders does quite well with nonwhite voters. The lily white state of Iowa and NH have been massive boons to Pete and Klob, both who have very poor support in nonwhite communities. Both of these campaigns are about to get a hard reality check in the less white states of NV and SC.

538 has Sanders polling 10 points up from second place Biden who is nosediving. 15+ up from warren, and more so for the rest.

SC still has Biden in the lead, but his polling is nosediving. Bernie is in second with a healthy lead over the rest. Bernie is 6 points behind Biden and 10 points ahead of the rest of the pack.

I could easily see these next two contests the moment when Sanders pulls into the sole frontrunner status away from Pete and Klob.


https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...mary-d/nevada/

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...outh-carolina/
Those charts are misleading. The trends are based on national polling. If you look at the polls below you will see there haven't been recent ones, and Biden was still leading.
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Old 13th February 2020, 04:59 PM   #2378
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Nobody but a Republican ghoul thinks the mortgage crisis was caused by the banks not being able to engage in discriminatory lending.
Except that isn't what he said. He was asked how the crisis started, and this was in 2008 before most of the investigations came out, and he said that the Government pushed banks to stop redlining, which is true, they did. He also noted that lending on houses where those that are getting the loan might not be able to repay it wasn't so bad, for the banks, as long as the housing market continued up because if the lender defaulted then the house could be sold for more than the loan, again this was true.

He didn't say that Redlining was a good idea, nor that should be done. He wasn't defending it, he was pointing out that with the ending of it and the creating of more subprime mortgages, that it setup the stage for the collapse because subprime mortgages only work when the housing market is increasing. And this was true, the lack of regulation and the boom in subprime mortgages which followed the demands to make sure everyone had access to cheap loans regardless of their ability to repay, lead to a bubble that burst, and when it did, the security wasn't worth the loan and people started defaulting leaving the banks with huge debts that they had built up by taking on too much risk.

The 2007-8 Collapse wasn't one group's fault. It wasn't entirely the banks, though they have a large part due to their willingness to take on the huge amounts of risk without regards to what might have happened in the future. It wasn't entirely the Government's, though they deserve some of the blame due to their lack of oversight, their deregulation of the banks, and their pushing banks to make lending available to everyone via the CRA, being willing to underwrite loans that clearly were suspect to the loaner's ability to repay through Freddie and Fanny. Finally those that were loaning the money themselves deserve some blame because they took out decades long mortgages without consideration of how they would be able to repay should interest rates increase, or house prices fall. They also were the ones that abandoned their debt when things went wrong for them when the housing market collapsed.

There is enough blame to go around, and a lot of people who wanted to play CYA by blaming everyone else. I don't see how someone pointing this out in 2008, before most of the reports were out, counts as defending Redlinning
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:32 PM   #2379
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Mmm. She's been pitching that for a while, and so have many of her supporters. She has a point, I think, that overall, she's the best candidate on the field to reach out to every part of, unite, and generate enthusiasm in the Democratic Party, even if she may not be everyone's first choice. If it were ranked choice voting, she'd probably win handily, in other words.
Yup. The idea is that she can capture the Bernie voters afraid to lose to Trump if the moderates don't get on board with Bernie, and capture the literally everyone else voters afraid to lose to Trump if the Bernie people don't get their first choice.

She's by far who I support, but not for those reasons. If she can convince the Bernie people she's similar enough to him, and the others that she's more 'reasonable' (different enough) from him, she has a shot. Having well thought out reasonable plans, showing she'd still be pragmatic and flexible, and proven the ability to get things done (getting an entire new department made before even being in government is damn impressive). Hypothetically she should be more welcome to the banks and markets than Bernie because while she wants to regulate the hell out of them, she at least knows how they work as to not accidentally destroy them. Of course the banks don't want a fair, level playing field where the people who deliver the best gain market share, so they fear her more than anyone else.



Quote:
I don't recall your previously stated view, but, if it's like mine, "lanes" are greatly overemphasized in the media because they make for an easy narrative to spout, not because they're particularly accurate.
Almost exactly my view. There of course are people who do stick more closely to their ideological 'lane', but the evidence just doesn't support it being a main driver for most, or even a large minority, of American voters.


Quote:
Mmm... I don't count what Warren's done as sniping. If anything, she's been on the receiving end of a bunch of sniping and she's pointedly refrained from engaging in sniping, as a general rule. The closest thing to sniping that she's actually done, by the look of it, is calling Buttigieg on his refusal to allow media into some of his fundraisers - and that was part of a more general and seemingly principled push for as much transparency as possible.
Sorry, I meant 'sniping' as in 'picking off' and not 'taking cheap shots'.

But she also called Pete on his answers to his history with minorities being vague and non-substantive. That wasn't exactly a snipe, but snipe adjacent.


Quote:
She's my first choice, by a large margin. 3rd in Iowa and 4th in NH in a crowded field also makes it pretty clear that "nobody's first pick" is quite inaccurate. Going beyond that, are you really calling TragicMonkey a nobody?

Listen, I think TragicMonkey would be the first to point out that while posting here, everyone is a nobody.

EDIT: Right, read the rest of the thread before making any new posts. Does the post-confirmation prediction get the million?
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:45 PM   #2380
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I like Warren. She's my senator and has done good work.

I'm just pointing out that a Harvard professor going around with a policy of "I'm smart, listen to me dumb-dumbs, I know what's best" is not a winning strategy.

There aren't enough highly educated, affluent professionals in this country to propel her to victory. The country isn't Boston. She's going to have to figure out how to relate to the unwashed masses or she's not viable.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I've worked in IT all my life. Highly educated, affluent professionals are ******* idiots.

One, Warren started out lower-middle class and went to a state university and taught special needs students before going to law school and passing the bar. Yes, she's extremely intelligent and has had a strong career in academia but she has also waited tables after the family car was repossessed. Communicating that might be a different matter, but actually relating isn't that out of plausibility.

Two, sample sets that have inbuilt mechanisms to over-represent people who can't figure their IT out are not the best sample set. And yes, I've also done IT work, and am an internal compliance auditor. I consistently have to remind people that the specialized knowledge they possess isn't common knowledge (and thus they need to document it and update their damn MI/EI and process maps!) and other people lacking that specialized knowledge isn't an indication they are stupid. A lot of people become hyper focused and lack a broad base of knowledge, and having spent a LOT of time dealing with consumer electronics, cell phones, and other IT (being a vacation location for rich business people), business people and the general public are ******* idiots.
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Old 13th February 2020, 07:39 PM   #2381
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Yes, and that.

Makes me feel better a bunch of rich donors wasted their money on this. Wonder what Biden is going to do with the war chest. He's not going to need it after he drops out.
Hopefully he'll use it against Trump.
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Old 13th February 2020, 07:42 PM   #2382
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Either that or his strategy of campaigning as Grandpa Simpson.

I don't even think anyone cares about his son and Ukraine (I could be wrong). I just think that he generates no enthusiasm, his debate performances have been rambling, he looks terrible, he talks like someone who was old fashioned in the 1950s, and maybe also there being other, fresher, choices for voters (such as Buttigieg or even Klobuchar).
Good analysis.
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Old 13th February 2020, 07:49 PM   #2383
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Except that isn't what he said. He was asked how the crisis started, and this was in 2008 before most of the investigations came out, and he said that the Government pushed banks to stop redlining, which is true, they did. He also noted that lending on houses where those that are getting the loan might not be able to repay it wasn't so bad, for the banks, as long as the housing market continued up because if the lender defaulted then the house could be sold for more than the loan, again this was true.

He didn't say that Redlining was a good idea, nor that should be done. He wasn't defending it, he was pointing out that with the ending of it and the creating of more subprime mortgages, that it setup the stage for the collapse because subprime mortgages only work when the housing market is increasing. And this was true, the lack of regulation and the boom in subprime mortgages which followed the demands to make sure everyone had access to cheap loans regardless of their ability to repay, lead to a bubble that burst, and when it did, the security wasn't worth the loan and people started defaulting leaving the banks with huge debts that they had built up by taking on too much risk.

The 2007-8 Collapse wasn't one group's fault. It wasn't entirely the banks, though they have a large part due to their willingness to take on the huge amounts of risk without regards to what might have happened in the future. It wasn't entirely the Government's, though they deserve some of the blame due to their lack of oversight, their deregulation of the banks, and their pushing banks to make lending available to everyone via the CRA, being willing to underwrite loans that clearly were suspect to the loaner's ability to repay through Freddie and Fanny. Finally those that were loaning the money themselves deserve some blame because they took out decades long mortgages without consideration of how they would be able to repay should interest rates increase, or house prices fall. They also were the ones that abandoned their debt when things went wrong for them when the housing market collapsed.

There is enough blame to go around, and a lot of people who wanted to play CYA by blaming everyone else. I don't see how someone pointing this out in 2008, before most of the reports were out, counts as defending Redlinning
Thanks for this. I place most of the blame on the government not regulating the Credit Default Swaps.
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Old 13th February 2020, 07:56 PM   #2384
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
No. I think it is childish and beneath the dignity of an adult let alone a President or Presidential candidate.
That doesn't mean it isn't brilliant.

I hate the fact that it worked, but it did. At least it appears to have done so.
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Old 13th February 2020, 08:05 PM   #2385
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
....Klobuchar is now a thing, for some reason....
Yes, and I wish I could figure out what her supporters see that makes her presidential material. I find her to be ... ummm....ordinary. She doesn't hold any position strongly that she can claim as her battle cry such as climate change or criminal reform. I'm unaware of her taking a leading role in any senate actions.

So, any Klobuchar enthusiasts out there? What gives?
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Old 13th February 2020, 08:08 PM   #2386
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
...(depending on what you mean by made up)....
In this contrext you don't know what "made up" means??? Surely you made that up.
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Old 13th February 2020, 08:11 PM   #2387
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Yes, and I wish I could figure out what her supporters see that makes her presidential material. I find her to be ... ummm....ordinary. She doesn't hold any position strongly that she can claim as her battle cry such as climate change or criminal reform. I'm unaware of her taking a leading role in any senate actions.

So, any Klobuchar enthusiasts out there? What gives?
Sounds like the perfect moderate.
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Old 13th February 2020, 08:16 PM   #2388
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
The root of the problem is that Warren is the smart person's candidate, and smart people are a tiny minority.
Especially so in this era of anti-elites and anti-expertise and anti-science. She's my first, second and last choice but I'm not ignorant of the stigma being "smart" carries with it.
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Old 13th February 2020, 08:43 PM   #2389
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
The root of the problem is that Warren is the smart person's candidate, and smart people are a tiny minority.
Then why does she come up with stupid positions like paying off everybody's student loans? And why was she unprepared to deal with the inevitable backlash this created?
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Old 13th February 2020, 08:49 PM   #2390
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
The root of the problem is that Warren is the smart person's candidate, and smart people are a tiny minority.
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Then why does she come up with stupid positions like paying off everybody's student loans? And why was she unprepared to deal with the inevitable backlash this created?
I would also add that it isnít too smart to prepare for the wrong competition.
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Old 13th February 2020, 08:54 PM   #2391
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Yes, and I wish I could figure out what her supporters see that makes her presidential material. I find her to be ... ummm....ordinary. She doesn't hold any position strongly that she can claim as her battle cry such as climate change or criminal reform. I'm unaware of her taking a leading role in any senate actions.

So, any Klobuchar enthusiasts out there? What gives?
See the hilited.

Ordinary is good, when surrounded by negatives.

As I noted in an earlier post, in my opinion all of the candidates except Klobuchar and Buttigieg have severe negatives.

However, Amy and Pete have big electoral question marks. Neither one is very well known, and one of them is a gay guy whose highest office is mayor of South Bend.

Of all the possible people I could see being good presidential material, Amy Klobuchar wouldn't be top on my list. However, of the seven people who can be taken seriously as presidential candidates today (I'm being nice and including Biden) she's my leading candidate, with Buttigieg as another possibility.
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Old 13th February 2020, 09:11 PM   #2392
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
That doesn't mean it isn't brilliant.

I hate the fact that it worked, but it did. At least it appears to have done so.
Yeah it does. Calling opponents childish nicknames is not brilliant. It is merely childish. And I don't think has worked. If Warren fails in her bid for the Presidency, it won't be because Trump's childish nickname.
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Old 13th February 2020, 11:20 PM   #2393
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Quote:
....Klobuchar is now a thing, for some reason....
Yes, and I wish I could figure out what her supporters see that makes her presidential material. I find her to be ... ummm....ordinary. She doesn't hold any position strongly that she can claim as her battle cry such as climate change or criminal reform.
In my opinion, I'm much more interested in a leader who has a decent set of policies that I might agree with mostly, than someone who focuses on a single issue (and where the other policies are not thought out, or that I might disagree with).
Quote:
I'm unaware of her taking a leading role in any senate actions.
Well, if it means anything, according to her wikipedia page, she "passed more legislation (sponsored or co-sponsored bills) than any other senator by the end of the 114th Congress in late 2016".
Quote:
So, any Klobuchar enthusiasts out there? What gives?
I'm not a "Klobuchar enthusiast". (I'm not even American, so this is just my outside opinion). But, assuming you agree with her policies (which people like the BernieBros might not), lets consider her positives:

- Younger than Biden, Warren, Sanders, and Bloomberg. That means there will be less chance of health concerns, and more chance of her being a 2 term president.
- Less gaff prone than Biden
- Actually has experience in congress (unlike, Buttigieg and Stayer)
- She supposedly did fairly well in the debates. Admittedly she wasn't a target like some of the front runners, but she also seemed to perform well during various senate proceedings. This means that during the election, she would probably do well against Trump. And if she wins the presidency, she would probably do a good job at representing the U.S. as president in public appearances, in dealing with world leaders
- The fact that she sponsored so much legislation means that she might be OK at navigating the political environment in Washington. (Granted the position of president is different than that of being a congress critter, but the president does still have to deal with congress.)

The main drawback is that she seems to have very little support within the african-american community. This could be due to her past history as a prosecutor (where she would have had to prosecute black people in court.) However, given the fact that Michael "stop and Frisk" Bloomberg is picking up african American support, they might in theory switch to her if she becomes a front runner.

So, if you like her policies, it looks like she might be pretty good, both in the chance that she might beat Trump, and in the fact that she could be a good president.
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Old 13th February 2020, 11:27 PM   #2394
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
There aren't enough highly educated, affluent professionals in this country to propel her to victory. The country isn't Boston. She's going to have to figure out how to relate to the unwashed masses or she's not viable.
Man... you really like your over the top hyperbole criticisms of Warren and her supporters.

Here, then, a simple litmus test. When it comes to filling a position of power, I tend to favor the smartest, most competent candidate with the best chance of doing the most good. The most "elite" choice, some might say. Am I an "elitist," like the Sanders campaign has called me (and you sure look like you want to here), given that I support Warren? Going further, if that qualifies as "elitism," is such a form of "elitism" actually bad?

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Bloomberg's speech is big bank apologism. I don't know how to interpret this as other than saying irresponsible, poor, and mostly brown people caused the crises with their bad decision making.
Not quite. To poke at what I think is being discussed -

Quote:
"Congress got involved, local officials as well."
They "said, 'Oh that's not fair, these people should be able to get credit.' And once you started pushing in that direction, banks started making more and more loans where the credit of the person buying the house wasn't as good as you would like,"
By that, it was the people who successfully argued against racially discriminatory practices being allowed who were in the wrong. The mostly brown people are simply the people who shouldn't have been allowed to get loans in the first place and the banks had no real say in the matter.

Looks like Warren and Castro have called Bloomberg out directly for that, now. I suppose that that might count as a snipe? Also, Warren has a nice short video that gives a quick primer on what redlining actually is, from a slightly longer video that Warren make a while ago that addressed one of her bills.

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
There is enough blame to go around, and a lot of people who wanted to play CYA by blaming everyone else. I don't see how someone pointing this out in 2008, before most of the reports were out, counts as defending Redlinning
Mmm. There is plenty of blame to go around in that the US has a lot of very unpleasant history. Quite a lot of redlining was directly motivated by racism specifically to disadvantage people of color, along with the numerous other methods that were used to disadvantage people of color. It's understandable that anything thats even a suggestion of justification for why it might have been better not to end it meets with criticism.

Going further, though, the bigger issue here is about whether Bloomberg is trustworthy when it comes to serving black people at least as well as he'll serve white people. For those who want to see his (decent) counterargument to the suggestion that he won't, here's a link to the relevant plan of his.

The Greenwood Initiative: Economic Justice for Black America


Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
But, that Republican end-all-regulations belief stands out clear as a bell. Bloomberg may not roll back all the damage Trump has done with deregulation.

And that's very bad.
Honestly, I think that all of the candidates will have a bit of a hard time with the Trump Administration's deregulation - and the attempts to negate as much enforcement of the rest as they can. Warren's actually got a plan for that and I think that she's the one who will likely get the most done... but frankly, I wouldn't hold it against her (or the rest) if things fell through the cracks of their Administration, given the enormity of the damage that's been done so far.

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I sincerely appreciate the assumption. I will try harder to make my sarcasm more blatant, but damn if it isn't tough these days.
I favor the magenta text method to keep such clear. Like this, but with sarcasm included.
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Old 13th February 2020, 11:32 PM   #2395
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Polling for Sanders shows him way in the lead in Nevada. Despite all the BS about white Bernie Bros, Sanders does quite well with nonwhite voters.
Correction: He does well with some non-white voters. (From what I understand, he has made a particular effort to appeal to the latino community.) However, last I saw, he is polling 3rd among African american, behind Biden (understandable, given his association with Obama), and Bloomberg (which is surprising, given Bloomberg's association with "stop and frisk").

Maybe you have more recent polling informatin. I haven't seen anything to suggest the situation has changed.

Now, its possible that should Sanders win the nomination, most of the black community would support him (not like I could see them going to Trump, and I don't think he has any skeletons in his closet that would cause him to actively lose their support). But polling 3rd in the black demographic (when he's #1 everywhere else, and even losing to Bloomberg) shows a distinct lack of enthusiasm.
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Old 14th February 2020, 12:44 PM   #2396
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Quid Pro Joe Biden told a group of black leaders that black parents can't read or write:

"Joe Biden reportedly shocked a group of black leaders last year when he said that parents in black communities canít read or write. The comment, reported by The New York Times, is said to have been uttered by the former vice president during a private meeting with black mayors in Georgia."


https://www.thedailybeast.com/biden-...ad-says-report
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Old 14th February 2020, 01:14 PM   #2397
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Yes, and I wish I could figure out what her supporters see that makes her presidential material. I find her to be ... ummm....ordinary. She doesn't hold any position strongly that she can claim as her battle cry such as climate change or criminal reform. I'm unaware of her taking a leading role in any senate actions.

So, any Klobuchar enthusiasts out there? What gives?
Well, she's not in her late 70's for a starter.
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Old 14th February 2020, 04:32 PM   #2398
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A lot of people have been hoping that the Democrats can coalesce behind one of the moderates and knock off Bernie. A new poll casts cold water on that notion:

Quote:
In a series of hypothetical head-to-head matchups, Sanders ran ahead of former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg by 15 points (53 percent to 38 percent); ahead of former South Bend, Ind., Mayor Pete Buttigieg by 17 points (54 percent to 37 percent); and ahead of Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar by 21 points (54 percent to 33 percent). Sandersís closest competitors were former Vice President Joe Biden, who trailed him by 4 points (48 percent to 44 percent) and Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren, who trailed him by 2 (44 percent to 42 percent).
The only two people who can go toe-to-toe with Bernie are on the verge of being kayoed.

Bernie has the lead in Nevada, according to a new poll:

Quote:
Sanders led the pack with 25 percent of respondents expressing support, followed by former Vice President Joe Biden (18 percent) and Sen. Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts (13 percent). Businessman Tom Steyer (11 percent), former South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg (10 percent) and Sen. Amy Klobuchar (10 percent) were clustered close behind.
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Old 14th February 2020, 04:50 PM   #2399
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When they see Sanders' momentum, the voters get behind him.

I was confident in Sanders' chances even after the heart attack. Voters don't seem too enthusiastic about gaffe-prone Biden or bland Buttigieg. Even Warren doesn't quite energize her base like Sanders does.
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Old 14th February 2020, 08:52 PM   #2400
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I asked my very liberal cousin in Minnesota what she thought of Klobuchar. Not a fan.
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