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Tags Congressional hearings , donald trump , impeachment , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 25th January 2020, 04:33 PM   #361
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The Constitution kinda does...It vests ALL executive power in the president. It doesn't even say it is limited like the legislative power given to Congress. As executive power goes, the Constitutional grant is absolute.
I went up the wrong tree with my first response here.


Instead, perhaps we need to clarify what "absolute" means here. My reading is that "absolute" means that all executive powers are vested in the president (which aligns with your reply to my first response). Absolute doesn't mean that execution of such powers must go unchallenged and can not be reversed. For instance, Congress may override a presidential veto by a 2/3 majority. Impeachment is another limitation of presidential power.
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Old 25th January 2020, 04:36 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Update on the Pompeo interview. The State Department has released a statement (image in link). In it, Pompeo implies that Mary Louise Kelly misidentified Bangladesh as Ukraine.

This is very clearly a bad lie. Kelly has a masters in European studies. She definitely did not think that Ukraine was just off the Southern border of China.

It is also worth noting that this is not a statement from Mike Pompeo himself. It is a statement from The State Department, with the official seal and everything. This is how bad the White House has been corrupted under this administration. Make sure you're registered to vote.
I suppose it's weird what people get ticked off about. I brush off a lot of stuff Republicans do, but I find myself really ticked off at Pompeo over this story. He must really have a lot of contempt for the whole country if he thinks a reporter wouldn't know where Ukraine is. Does he think he's special because he knows? And does he think we will believe his hint that she didn't know?
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Old 25th January 2020, 04:47 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I like that too. that would probably require a comma though. As in

Gaslighting, our party.


Otherwise is seems to suggest they are gaslighting the party and not the public. We should keep working on it.
I was thinking more along the lines that they indeed gaslight their party members. Mostly that's who believes them.
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Old 25th January 2020, 04:48 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I'm not bothering. My blood pressure is high enough.
I'm not watching it either. Too maddening.
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Old 25th January 2020, 04:50 PM   #365
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The Pompeo freakout has its own thread now.
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Old 25th January 2020, 04:50 PM   #366
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Full video of Trump discussing Ukraine and sacking the ambassador.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7p468vare...20.42.mov?dl=0


Secretly recorded somehow.
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Old 25th January 2020, 05:27 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Full video of Trump discussing Ukraine and sacking the ambassador.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7p468vare...20.42.mov?dl=0


Secretly recorded somehow.
"Somehow", people are saying, involved carrying an iPad into a room with the President, telling it to record video, and placing it face down on the table.

As for "discussing ... sacking the ambassador": The "fake" news media are really giving Trump a pass on this. He said "take her out". I've never heard that as meaning someone should fire her. And as far as I know the only person in the room with the authority to do so was Trump himself.

I think he wanted her murdered. But he could murder an ambassador on 5th Avenue in Kiev on not lose any of his supporters.
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Old 25th January 2020, 05:47 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
"Somehow", people are saying, involved carrying an iPad into a room with the President, telling it to record video, and placing it face down on the table.

As for "discussing ... sacking the ambassador": The "fake" news media are really giving Trump a pass on this. He said "take her out". I've never heard that as meaning someone should fire her. And as far as I know the only person in the room with the authority to do so was Trump himself.

I think he wanted her murdered. But he could murder an ambassador on 5th Avenue in Kiev on not lose any of his supporters.
As much as I despise Trump, I don't agree with you. He was just trying to look like the Big Tough Guy for those around him. I.E., he was showing off.
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Old 25th January 2020, 06:12 PM   #369
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Yes, politically-motivated personnel changes at a critical international diplomatic post in furtherance of a plan to cajole another country into supporting politically-motivated investigations against domestic rivals, that's probably bad without having to go b-movie script with it.
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Old 25th January 2020, 06:22 PM   #370
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I'm not bothering. My blood pressure is high enough.
I didn't even bother listening to the defense. They're just filthy Trumptrash so nothing they say can be believed. All of their kind come with the presumption of dishonesty so they aren't worth the attention of an American.
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Old 25th January 2020, 06:54 PM   #371
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So Senator Marsha Blackburn was reading a book during the impeachment proceedings.

Senator Richard Burr was handing out fidget spinners to other Republicans because they were so "bored."

Guys... I'm not sure, but the Republicans might not be taking this seriously.
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Old 25th January 2020, 06:55 PM   #372
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The Dems' focus was on exactly what Trump is charged with and provided supporting evidence and its timeline.

The Repubs focus on "Witchhunt! Hoax! Overturn 2016 election! Keep Trump off 2020 ticket! Harassment! No crime!" Blah, blah, blah.
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Old 25th January 2020, 07:31 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The Dems' focus was on exactly what Trump is charged with and provided supporting evidence and its timeline.

The Repubs focus on "Witchhunt! Hoax! Overturn 2016 election! Keep Trump off 2020 ticket! Harassment! No crime!" Blah, blah, blah.
I only heard about five minutes today. They were talking about Adam Schiff lying about contact with the whistleblower. And also Adam Schiff lying about Russia collusion evidence.

Neither one is actually relevant to the question of whether or not Trump should be ousted, but points like that resonate really well with people.
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Old 25th January 2020, 07:38 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I only heard about five minutes today. They were talking about Adam Schiff lying about contact with the whistleblower. And also Adam Schiff lying about Russia collusion evidence.

Neither one is actually relevant to the question of whether or not Trump should be ousted, but points like that resonate really well with people.
Shifty-eyed Schiff?

https://www.google.com/search?q=Shif...nt=firefox-b-1

He had points?
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Old 25th January 2020, 07:39 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post

Neither one is actually relevant to the question of whether or not Trump should be ousted, but points like that resonate really well with people.
Which should tell you all, really.
If you have been conned, you will latch onto any excuse to ignore the advice of people telling you that you have been conned.
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Old 25th January 2020, 07:53 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
As much as I despise Trump, I don't agree with you. He was just trying to look like the Big Tough Guy for those around him. I.E., he was showing off.
JTBT. Just Trump Being Trump
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Old 25th January 2020, 08:00 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I only heard about five minutes today. They were talking about Adam Schiff lying about contact with the whistleblower. And also Adam Schiff lying about Russia collusion evidence.
I find it fascinating that the Trump defense includes accusations of Schiff lying. How ironic is that?

Quote:
Neither one is actually relevant to the question of whether or not Trump should be ousted, but points like that resonate really well with people.
Agreed that neither is relevant. It's pure distraction by Trump's defense.

Points like that only resonate with people who have already made up their minds that Trump did nothing wrong and are looking for something to support that belief. It has nothing to do with what he's accused of doing.
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Old 25th January 2020, 09:43 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I didn't even bother listening to the defense. They're just filthy Trumptrash so nothing they say can be believed. All of their kind come with the presumption of dishonesty so they aren't worth the attention of an American.
I have to admit I didn't listen to the prosecution, either. The whole proceding is a waste of time.
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Old 25th January 2020, 11:59 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I have sigs turned off.
Quote:
“Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marco
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Old 26th January 2020, 03:06 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I suppose it's weird what people get ticked off about. I brush off a lot of stuff Republicans do, but I find myself really ticked off at Pompeo over this story. He must really have a lot of contempt for the whole country if he thinks a reporter wouldn't know where Ukraine is. Does he think he's special because he knows? And does he think we will believe his hint that she didn't know?
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Old 26th January 2020, 03:06 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Full video of Trump discussing Ukraine and sacking the ambassador.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7p468vare...20.42.mov?dl=0


Secretly recorded somehow.

Trump only takes five minutes to remind everyone that he won the election.
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Old 26th January 2020, 03:11 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
So Senator Marsha Blackburn was reading a book during the impeachment proceedings.

Senator Richard Burr was handing out fidget spinners to other Republicans because they were so "bored."

Guys... I'm not sure, but the Republicans might not be taking this seriously.
Despite it being against the rules to leave your seat during proceedings, up to 21 Republican Senators left the room entirely during the Democrat's presentations, often for hours at a time. One of them (I forget which off the top of my head) went and did an interview on Fox News while he was supposed to be in his seat. Another simply went to sleep.
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Old 26th January 2020, 03:40 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Full video of Trump discussing Ukraine and sacking the ambassador.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7p468vare...20.42.mov?dl=0


Secretly recorded somehow.
I wish there were more inside videos like this. Maybe we should launch a Kickstarter to distribute tiny spy cams to everyone on the White House staff :P .
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Old 26th January 2020, 05:08 AM   #384
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https://twitter.com/BradMossEsq/stat...668190215?s=20

Quote:
For a guy who definitely doesn’t know Lev Parnas,
@realDonaldTrump
sure has a lengthy conversation with the guy on a range of topics in this 2018 audio.
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Old 26th January 2020, 08:20 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Quote:
For a guy who definitely doesn’t know Lev Parnas,
@realDonaldTrump
sure has a lengthy conversation with the guy on a range of topics in this 2018 audio.
https://twitter.com/BradMossEsq/stat...668190215?s=20
This is really hilarious. I know Parnas looks like a dope, but man I love this guy. He brought the goods. Pence said he didn't know him. It seems every time you turn around some Republican is denying knowing him and Parnas then provides the evidence.
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Old 26th January 2020, 08:39 AM   #386
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To be fair, the idea that Donald Trump could hold a conversation with someone and walk away not knowing who that person was or not remembering that person's role in the conversation doesn't seem implausible. He is both narcissistic and delusional. There's no particular reason to believe that he has actual awareness of who he is talking to at all times.

And if he just happens to demand firing an ambassador during that conversation, for most people that would be a pretty big deal and strong evidence that they were actually engaged in that conversation as a serious matter, but for Trump it could just be an impulsive outburst forgotten before dessert. He obviously didn't act on his own demand that Yovanovitch be fired at the time, so it's quite possible that he just forgot, and no one reminded him. A year later, the subject came up again and this time she was actually fired.

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Old 26th January 2020, 08:44 AM   #387
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I made sure to tune in to a program which I think often gives the greatest insight into how the public is perceiving important political current affairs. The program I'm referring to is the cold open of Saturday Night Live. It is often the case that you can see which side is most worthy of ridicule from their treatment.

If SNL is a bellwether, things are going pretty good for the Democrats.


For those not wanting to look it up, the skit featured Alan Dershowitz, along with McConnell et. al. discussing the progress of the trial with Satan, who was a fan of their work.

ETA: On the other hand, the ones that really show that one side or the other is worthy of ridicule are the ones that are actually funny. I wouldn't describe last night's cold open as one of the good ones.

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Old 26th January 2020, 08:47 AM   #388
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This twitter thread breaks down the contents of the recording.
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Old 26th January 2020, 09:08 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
This twitter thread breaks down the contents of the recording.
Sounds like he talked to a lot of real winners that hour. I don't think it is fair to say that from this he knew Parnas.
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Old 26th January 2020, 09:09 AM   #390
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I was watching the cold open I referred to at Planet Fitness. The TV showing NBC at the gym is right next to the one with Fox News. Against my better judgement, I flipped over to it. (I almost never watch either Fox News or CNN. Neither is the least bit informative.)

As might be expected, they were going full bore* attack on "Biden family corruption". What I really found irritating about it is that, of course, they went beyond the possibility of anything remotely related to government, and got into Hunter's personal life. Apparently he got a stripper pregnant, or something. I really don't care. However, I thought it bizarre that someone defending Trump would try to cast aspersions on anyone based on their sexual relations with strippers. How can they keep a straight face when they do it?

The country is truly mad.

*Both senses of the word.

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Old 26th January 2020, 09:23 AM   #391
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
To be fair, the idea that Donald Trump could hold a conversation with someone and walk away not knowing who that person was or not remembering that person's role in the conversation doesn't seem implausible. He is both narcissistic and delusional. There's no particular reason to believe that he has actual awareness of who he is talking to at all times.

And if he just happens to demand firing an ambassador during that conversation, for most people that would be a pretty big deal and strong evidence that they were actually engaged in that conversation as a serious matter, but for Trump it could just be an impulsive outburst forgotten before dessert. He obviously didn't act on his own demand that Yovanovitch be fired at the time, so it's quite possible that he just forgot, and no one reminded him. A year later, the subject came up again and this time she was actually fired.
Your point is reasonable. I mean he has said he didn't know people he had sex with and even paid more than a $100,000 to not talk about it.

There's a point though where the denials become ridiculous.

The real question is why would you believe anything Trump says?
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Old 26th January 2020, 09:24 AM   #392
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Democrats are having a field day after Trump's lawyers accidentally made the strongest case to call witnesses in his impeachment trial


Quote:
President Donald Trump's defense team repeatedly argued on Saturday that there isn't enough evidence to impeach him because Congress hasn't heard from any witnesses who had "direct contact" with the president.
If only there was some method by which witnesses could be called and compelled to testify.
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Old 26th January 2020, 09:34 AM   #393
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I suspect that the reason the Republicans are going second is for precisely that kind of reason - the Democrats don't have a rebuttal to anything they say.

Not quite sure how the whole "Senators' questions" process works. Perhaps they can get that point across there.
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Old 26th January 2020, 09:51 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Sounds like he talked to a lot of real winners that hour. I don't think it is fair to say that from this he knew Parnas.
Ummm ... If he didn't really know parnas, then why exactly would he get into discussions about foreign policy with someone there he didn't know? Sounds like a big security problem to me.

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Old 26th January 2020, 10:08 AM   #395
Squeegee Beckenheim
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https://twitter.com/extraface/status...54727666298880

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Strangely there’s tape of the president telling a guy he claims to have never met to execute an order that the president could easily do himself at any time under his powers.
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Old 26th January 2020, 10:09 AM   #396
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https://twitter.com/eliehonig/status...45819564388353

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House Managers don’t actually know what is in the documents or how Bolton or Mulvaney would testify, but they want to find out.

The Administration does know what’s in the documents and what witnesses would say, but wants to keep it all hidden.
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Old 26th January 2020, 10:21 AM   #397
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Parnas said the order part was directed at the white house aide there.
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Old 26th January 2020, 10:22 AM   #398
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Ummm ... If he didn't really know parnas, then why exactly would he get into discussions about foreign policy with someone there he didn't know? Sounds like a big security problem to me.

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Her has had multiple security violations. Even of he did know Parnas, he is demonstrating the same lack of awareness by having that conversation in front of other donors.
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Old 26th January 2020, 10:24 AM   #399
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Trump will weather this storm and be reelected. Watch for looting, rioting, assaults, and fires being set. The left-wingers aka Socialists are very sore losers.
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Old 26th January 2020, 10:39 AM   #400
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Ummm ... If he didn't really know parnas, then why exactly would he get into discussions about foreign policy with someone there he didn't know? Sounds like a big security problem to me.

Because Trump is a moron who can't resist talking about himself.

Did he know Lev Parnas? Probably. On the other hand, the tape is made with a bunch of donors. Who knows whether Trump had any more knowledge of Lev than "one of those guys I have to talk to because they give a lot of money."

My intention isn't to defend Trump, as such. I just look at this as one more "gotcha!" moment. Since he got into the race in 2015, he's been handing "gotchas" to the media day after day. He's a master of distraction, and his opponents in politics and the press fall for it every time.

I don't care if he knew Lev Parnas, and the fact that he's lying about this is no worse than his general propensity toward lying. There's no gotcha there.
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