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Tags Congressional hearings , donald trump , impeachment , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 22nd January 2020, 01:23 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I think we can call this the Kavanaugh Maneuver.
I've been calling it the "Susan Collins is very, very concerned... about the thing she is currently voting for" game.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 01:31 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I've been calling it the "Susan Collins is very, very concerned... about the thing she is currently voting for" game.
That's some truth right there. There is another female (R) that does the same thing, though her name is escaping me at the moment.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 01:36 PM   #83
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Sekulow is telling the news media 'quid pro quo' wasn't in the Articles. I suppose that means he's pretending it can't be introduced.


Trump's on now claiming his "transcript" was perfect again.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 01:36 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
That's some truth right there. There is another female (R) that does the same thing, though her name is escaping me at the moment.
Lisa Murkowski (Alaska) is probably who you're thinking off. A lot of "Oh I'm gonna be fair this is all very troubling" talk but yesterday she voted against witnesses and called Trump to reassure him that she didn't hate him.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 01:38 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
That's some truth right there. There is another female (R) that does the same thing, though her name is escaping me at the moment.
Murkowski from AK.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 01:40 PM   #86
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Yes, the Democrats are appealing to the American public - in the hope that they will convince the Republicans.
Trump's lawyers are making a show for an audience of One, i.e Trump.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 01:44 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Quote:
I've been calling it the "Susan Collins is very, very concerned... about the thing she is currently voting for" game.
That's some truth right there. There is another female (R) that does the same thing, though her name is escaping me at the moment.
Are you referring to Lisa Murkowski? (Senator from Alaska)

If so, I think she deserves a little more respect than Collins. After all, unlike Collins, she did vote against confirming Drunky McRapeface. (She did vote with the rest of the republicans on approving the rules; we will have to wait and see if she ends up going against Moscow Mitch later in the proceedings.)
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Old 22nd January 2020, 01:47 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Are you referring to Lisa Murkowski? (Senator from Alaska)

If so, I think she deserves a little more respect than Collins. After all, unlike Collins, she did vote against confirming Drunky McRapeface. (She did vote with the rest of the republicans on approving the rules; we will have to wait and see if she ends up going against Moscow Mitch later in the proceedings.)
She didn't vote No on Kavanaugh. She voted "Present," the same B.S. Tulsi pulled on voting to impeach Trump.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 02:13 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
This is just empty rhetoric and pointless name-calling.
It's the Republican way. Copy Trump
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Old 22nd January 2020, 02:20 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Quote:
Are you referring to Lisa Murkowski? (Senator from Alaska)

If so, I think she deserves a little more respect than Collins. After all, unlike Collins, she did vote against confirming Drunky McRapeface.
She didn't vote No on Kavanaugh. She voted "Present," the same B.S. Tulsi pulled on voting to impeach Trump.
True, her vote was recorded as 'present'. But her vote was due to a result of 'pairing'... i.e. one of the republicans who was going to vote 'yes' was unable to attend so she came to an agreement to vote 'present' to basically cancel each other's vote.

(This is different than Tulsi's vote, which was based purely on her own preferences.)

https://www.vox.com/mischiefs-of-fac...vote-explained
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Old 22nd January 2020, 02:23 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
It's the Republican way. Copy Trump
It's not, though. Not everybody on the right indulges in this kind of rhetoric.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 02:26 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
True, her vote was recorded as 'present'. But her vote was due to a result of 'pairing'... i.e. one of the republicans who was going to vote 'yes' was unable to attend so she came to an agreement to vote 'present' to basically cancel each other's vote.

(This is different than Tulsi's vote, which was based purely on her own preferences.)

https://www.vox.com/mischiefs-of-fac...vote-explained
Still doesn't explain why she couldn't have just voted no. That article just explains why it was the best maneuver to cover her own ass by voting present.

It's what was good for her, it wasn't out of any desire to keep Kavanaugh out of the SCOTUS. It was actually a cop out vote, despite the article saying otherwise. It gave her the best of both sides, but I'm certainly not going to give her any props for it. **** her even more now that I know she did that.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 02:46 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's not, though. Not everybody on the right indulges in this kind of rhetoric.
Just the elected ones.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 02:47 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's not, though. Not everybody on the right indulges in this kind of rhetoric.

No, not everybody, but the current figurehead does, and that's pretty damned significant in itself.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 02:48 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
This is just empty rhetoric and pointless name-calling.
I thought I made an important point. How does it compare to the number of times we've heard "bone spurs" in here? I would say my nonsense is just a drop in the bucket. In any case, Schiff has been talking about Russia for hours, and it is just boring.

Last edited by BrooklynBaby; 22nd January 2020 at 02:51 PM. Reason: add
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Old 22nd January 2020, 02:58 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I don't know why one would want to win to represent gullible people.
Because elected officials represent ALL the people in their district, state, etc.


You actually didn't know that or couldn't figure it out without asking me?
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Old 22nd January 2020, 03:05 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
Seems unconstitutional on its face, limiting Roberts' power to "preside", as specified in the Constitution.

No?
Senate rules state a majority of the Senate can overrule the Chief Justice, and the power to make those rules comes from the Constitution, which gives the Senate the sole power to try impeachments, which the SCOTUS has previously interpreted to mean that the way in which the Senate holds the trial is their sole power. If the Senate tried to remove the Chief Justice as presiding officer, then the constitutional provision that says the CJ presides would apply.


So you've got a trial in which the jurors can override a ruling by the judge.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 03:06 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
I thought I made an important point. How does it compare to the number of times we've heard "bone spurs" in here? I would say my nonsense is just a drop in the bucket.
You mean like how we regularly call Trump "Stubby McBonespurs"?

Well, lets see:
- Trump has claimed he had bone spurs that kept him out of Viet Nam, yet claims to be "pro military"
- Trump has bragged about his sexual prowness
So calling him "Stubby McBonespurs" highlights his hypocrisy, and is related to things Trump himself has said and/or done.

On the other hand, nick names like "Piglosi"? "Shiff for Brains"? None of it seems related to any of the actions of Adam Shiff or Nancy Pelosi

Pelosi has never (for example) insulted another person's appearance by comparing them to barnyard animals. She never worked on a farm. The "Piglosi" label has no wit, no intelligence. Same with "Shiff for Brains"... Shiff never goes around bragging about his intelligence, nor does he call other people stupid. Again, another label that has no wit or intelligence.

Now, I have actually used the nickname "Comrade Sanders" when referring to Bernie Sanders. Again, that nick name stems from his prior actions (such as his taking a honeymoon in Russia).
Quote:
In any case, Schiff has been talking about Russia for hours, and it is just boring.
Sorry if an attempt by a foreign government to corrupt the U.S. political system isn't exciting to you. But I guess you're happy with democracy going away if it happens to be a guy you like who gets into power (who just happens to be a racist/bigot.)
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Old 22nd January 2020, 03:06 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
I thought I made an important point. How does it compare to the number of times we've heard "bone spurs" in here? I would say my nonsense is just a drop in the bucket.
Other people are pissing in my ear and telling me it's raining. You're pissing in my ear and telling me it's okay, because there's already a lot of piss in my ear. I'm just asking you to stop pissing in my ear. Is that a problem?
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Old 22nd January 2020, 03:07 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
I have to say that I'm a bit puzzled by the lock step obedience to Trump during this impeachment. To date the argument has been fear of Trump rebuttal to any disloyalty and how it could hurt any GOP candidate in a primary, etc. OK, fine. Being under Trump's thumb removes the spine from GOP congress members. But here is a golden opportunity to get out from under. But they won't. Why not? Don't they want to be free of him? Just vote to remove him and you're free. If removed from office he would be a feckless windbag with no ability to harm anyone.

Trump's base would not like it, but what can they do? Vote democrat? Not likely. Why not do the right thing and get out form under at the same time? Could it be that it's more about the judges, and a rubber stamp for conservative policies than it is about fear of reprisal?

The current congressfolk would be primaried, that is, replaced during the primary for the next election by someone that the base liked and who, presumably, would say that they would not have impeached Trump.


The Republican Senators in deep red states will put their continued employment at serious risk if they vote to convict (even though their duty is to not let such considerations come into play).
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Old 22nd January 2020, 03:09 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm not sure a stack of unpassed, unsigned bills counts as "governing". It's not like policies are being enacted or agendas advanced by that stack of bills.

It's one of the key features of the US system, that the House of Representatives can't govern on its own. It requires both chambers of the legislature and the office of the president, working together, to actually do any governing.
The House has done it's part of governing, and has fulfilled its role in governance.


I call that governing (to the extent that their constitutional role allows). If that's not governing, then nothing that any House of representatives could conceivably do would be governing.


ETA: theprestige, I see your earlier reply about this issue, so you can ignore my post here.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 03:12 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Not blaming you, mind you, mischaracterized is Politico's words:

Mischaracterized or made a simple mistake?
"Mischaracterised" doesn't imply that it was deliberate.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 03:30 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
The current congressfolk would be primaried, that is, replaced during the primary for the next election by someone that the base liked and who, presumably, would say that they would not have impeached Trump.


The Republican Senators in deep red states will put their continued employment at serious risk if they vote to convict (even though their duty is to not let such considerations come into play).
Those God believers had their fingers crossed behind their backs when they swore to be honest.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 03:37 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
"Mischaracterised" doesn't imply that it was deliberate.
Yeah it does.

If you use it passively, maybe not. The [x] was mischaracterized.

But the minute you put an actor in the scene, it becomes that person who mischaracterized [x].

Generally one has to add an adverb to change the default definition of 'did it purposefully'.

'accidentally' or something like that.

Bottom line, Politico chose to use a more inflammatory title. No surprise, sensation and scandal is their business.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 03:52 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's not, though. Not everybody on the right indulges in this kind of rhetoric.
‘Libtards’
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Old 22nd January 2020, 03:56 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
‘Libtards’
I don't know what this means.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 04:15 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
True, her vote was recorded as 'present'. But her vote was due to a result of 'pairing'... i.e. one of the republicans who was going to vote 'yes' was unable to attend so she came to an agreement to vote 'present' to basically cancel each other's vote.

(This is different than Tulsi's vote, which was based purely on her own preferences.)

https://www.vox.com/mischiefs-of-fac...vote-explained
I guess I'm not getting why that makes a difference.

"Oh you're gonna vote for Drunky McRapeFace but can't make it? Well I'll just Null-vote in that case."
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Old 22nd January 2020, 04:16 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Just the elected ones.
Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
No, not everybody, but the current figurehead does, and that's pretty damned significant in itself.
Not all of the right, or even Republicans, support Trump. It's one reason I try to use the qualifier 'the Trump GOP' when making such observations.

But it is not insignificant that this group is roughly 90+% of Republicans.

It reflects that either they are for incivility, for it as a show of strength (me and mine can get away with it, but you can't), or it isn't enough of a priority for them to hold their officials accountable for it in any way. There is no politician less civil than Trump. If you don't hold him nor anyone else on your side accountable for it, you will get more people who behave the same way.

Now this same principle applies to every other characteristic/behavior/etc in elected officials. The GOP won't hold their own accountable for being uncivil, then they will get more uncivil officials. They refused to hold accountable a Republican they themselves thought assaulted teenagers and got away with it, so they will get more sexual predator Republicans. They refused to hold that same Republican, and several more, accountable for violating the Constitution repeatedly, and that is what they have gotten more of.

Tolerating such things means they do not prioritize it as much as...tax cuts? Deregulation? Denying healthcare? Hurting the right people.

And here in this impeachment we see the same values at work. They refuse to hold calling for foreign attacks on our elections accountable, and then they got more of that. They refuse to support our agencies and truth, so they get less robust agencies and truth. They refuse to hold abuse of power accountable, so they will get more of their own abusing power.

Culture eats strategy for lunch. The Trump GOP insists on having a lawless, deplorable culture, so that is what they get. Encourage those on the right when they try to change that culture.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 04:25 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Not all of the right, or even Republicans, support Trump. It's one reason I try to use the qualifier 'the Trump GOP' when making such observations.
They need to step up to the plate or join the blame line no matter the excuses for what they are getting out of it..
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Old 22nd January 2020, 04:25 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Not all of the right, or even Republicans, support Trump. It's one reason I try to use the qualifier 'the Trump GOP' when making such observations.
Huh. I always read that as "the GOP has been taken over by Trump", not "there is a faction of the GOP that is pro-Trump".
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Old 22nd January 2020, 04:30 PM   #111
Shalamar
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That is some pretty special libtard snowflake stuff, especially from the folks who are okay with Ralph "Blackface" Northam.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't know what this means.
Do as I say, not as I do?
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Old 22nd January 2020, 04:32 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
They need to step up to the plate or join the blame line no matter the excuses for what they are getting out of it..
Like I said, encourage those who try to change that. Hell, I never thought I'd be giving Michael Steele props, but that is what is called for when he's trying to get the GOP to change for the better.

It is better when they acknowledge the reality that the GOP as a whole isn't there yet.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Huh. I always read that as "the GOP has been taken over by Trump", not "there is a faction of the GOP that is pro-Trump".
Yeah, it's not as clear as I'd like, but it's much faster than typing 'the Trump supporters in the GOP' and less dismissive sounding than 'Trumpers'. I thought context would get the point much of the time, but it's still a flaw.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 04:37 PM   #113
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That guy shouting in the gallery a few minutes ago? That was Trump.

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Old 22nd January 2020, 04:38 PM   #114
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Do as I say, not as I do?
Good point. Thank you. I'll try to be better in the future.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 04:44 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
That guy shouting in the gallery a few minutes ago? That was Trump.

I couldn't catch what the shouter said, or who it was. Was it one of the Senators? Does anyone know what he said?
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Old 22nd January 2020, 05:26 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Yeah it does.
It really doesn't.

Quote:
Generally one has to add an adverb to change the default definition of 'did it purposefully'.

'accidentally' or something like that.
Other way round. In order to imply that it was deliberate you have to add an adverb, such as "deliberately".

Here's an example of a definition that doesn't imply "did it purposefully".

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/di...ischaracterize

Quote:
mischaracterize
in British English
or mischaracterise (ˌmɪsˈkærɪktəˌraɪz)
VERB (transitive)
to characterize in an incorrect or misleading manner
Can you provide a link to a dictionary that defines in in a way that does imply what you are calling the "default definition"?
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Old 22nd January 2020, 05:38 PM   #117
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Schiff's top 7 impeachment lies:

https://pjmedia.com/trending/the-top...t-impeachment/

Oh, just a reminder the transcript of Schiff's 8 hour interview with IG Atkinson is still hidden from Republicans. Also, he allowed no witnesses to be called by Republicans unless they were on Schiff's list.

Last edited by BrooklynBaby; 22nd January 2020 at 06:16 PM. Reason: add
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Old 22nd January 2020, 06:25 PM   #118
alfaniner
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Originally Posted by DallasDad View Post
I couldn't catch what the shouter said, or who it was. Was it one of the Senators? Does anyone know what he said?
I highly doubt it was one of the Senators or it would be much more newsworthy. As it is, I doubt the incident will barely get a mention in the media, much less what the guy said.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 06:31 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Duly noted. Thanks.

So it really does boil down to nothing more than "Orange man bad"?
I think I lost the thread of this conversation. What really boils down?
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Old 22nd January 2020, 06:55 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
That guy shouting in the gallery a few minutes ago? That was Trump.

Unsurprisingly, it was a pro-Trump protester:

Quote:
The protester was escorted out of the chamber within seconds, and Jeffries resumed his remarks, but the man continued to scream loudly just outside the chamber, on the third floor near the press gallery.

He could be heard yelling, "Schumer is the devil," "Dismiss the trial of impeachment," and he repeatedly mentioned abortion, as he was arrested and led away by Capitol Police. He was charged with unlawful conduct, police said.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/tru...liveBlogHeader
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