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Tags Congressional hearings , donald trump , impeachment , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 22nd January 2020, 07:11 PM   #121
Norman Alexander
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Unsurprisingly, it was a pro-Trump protester:


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/tru...liveBlogHeader
Yeah, a nut-case.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 07:24 PM   #122
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Good evening. The opening arguments are being made, FOX news has had a little box showing a live feed of it with no audio of it while their hosts talk about the horrible "do nothing Democrats" are and Hillary Clinton. Is there any wonder why those that use FOX as their source of news have no idea what's going on?
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Old 22nd January 2020, 07:28 PM   #123
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Did I just hear what I think I just heard?

I was riding home, listening to the trial on the radio. There was a female house manager laying out the case, and she said something that made me do a double take.

In describing the meeting of Senator Chris Murphy with President Zelensky, she said that Murphy told the Ukranian President that there was bipartisan support for continued military aid to the Ukraine, but that support could be jeopardized if Zelensky became embroiled in American politics.

I only vaguely remembered that senators had gone to Ukraine, so I looked up the meeting when I got home, and the accounts didn't include that, although they didn't contradict it either. Did I hear it right? I was driving and thinking about something else at the time, so I wasn't paying close attention.


(Yes, I know I could probably find a transcript, but what's the fun of that? I want to hear other's reactions as well.)
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Old 22nd January 2020, 07:46 PM   #124
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It always skeeves me out when Senators undertake international diplomacy on their own stick.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 07:57 PM   #125
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Good evening theprestige
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It always skeeves me out when Senators undertake international diplomacy on their own stick.
The

Just curious, why? How about the President's personal attorney?
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Old 22nd January 2020, 08:04 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It always skeeves me out when Senators undertake international diplomacy on their own stick.
You do understand that foreign policy is the Senate's primary responsibility?
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Old 22nd January 2020, 08:20 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You do understand that foreign policy is the Senate's primary responsibility?
I don't understand why it would be relevant to begin with. But I haven't been watching, or listening.

It strikes me as having nothing to do with the impeachment case. Baffled why anyone would bring it up, but especially a House manager. They don't need filler and they *really* don't need accounts of senators putting their own pressure on Zelensky.

Unless they know the defense is going to bring it up and just want to get ahead of it.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 08:33 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by JPK View Post
Good evening. The opening arguments are being made, FOX news has had a little box showing a live feed of it with no audio of it while their hosts talk about the horrible "do nothing Democrats" are and Hillary Clinton. Is there any wonder why those that use FOX as their source of news have no idea what's going on?
I saw a clip from Fox News yesterday. The chyron read: AFTER RAMMING THROUGH BOGUS IMPEACHMENT SHAM, HOUSE DEMS NOW MOANING ABOUT FAIRNESS IN SENATE TRIAL

They had a feed of Adam Schiff delivering opening arguments (muted) while the upper right-corner had a scroll of Trump's accomplishments (renegotiated NAFTA, started buildng the wall, etc). Someone on Twitter described it as "State TV on steroids." ******' idiocracy.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 08:42 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Good point. Thank you. I'll try to be better in the future.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 08:48 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
It really doesn't.

Other way round. In order to imply that it was deliberate you have to add an adverb, such as "deliberately".

Here's an example of a definition that doesn't imply "did it purposefully".

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/di...ischaracterize

Can you provide a link to a dictionary that defines in in a way that does imply what you are calling the "default definition"?
This is a silly argument. Perhaps you read a different connotation than I do. I also read the news headline to be ginning the issue up. A misleading manner suggests the desire to mislead.

I don't see the point in this tedium beyond that.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 08:51 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by DallasDad View Post
I couldn't catch what the shouter said, or who it was. Was it one of the Senators? Does anyone know what he said?
I believe he called Schumer the devil.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 08:52 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You do understand that foreign policy is the Senate's primary responsibility?
Senate approval and consent is required for treaties but foreign policy is under the purview of the President as are all other executive functions. Furthermore, funding for specific foreign policy objectives originates in the House. It's common for Senators and Representatives to travel to and interact with other countries as part of their oversight but they have no executive authority.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 09:06 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by marting View Post
Senate approval and consent is required for treaties but foreign policy is under the purview of the President as are all other executive functions. Furthermore, funding for specific foreign policy objectives originates in the House. It's common for Senators and Representatives to travel to and interact with other countries as part of their oversight but they have no executive authority.
Yes. But their primary responsibility is foreign policy oversight.
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Old 22nd January 2020, 09:21 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
They don't need filler and they *really* don't need accounts of senators putting their own pressure on Zelensky.
And at least one person gets the issue.

But, I checked a conservative web site or two, and there was nothing, so I probably misheard it. I checked accounts of the meeting from this fall, and the big story about it was that one of the Senators changed his story between giving two accounts. Not nearly as big of a deal.

I did find myself wondering today what if Trump and team actually had something in their back pocket. Not likely, but they have to say something.

ETA: Here's a link to a story from November https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...o-probe-bidens

In the story, Murphy said he would advise Zelensky not to get embroiled in US politics. In tonight's speech, I thought the manager said that Murphy warned Zelensky that getting involved could threaten the bipartisan support for the aid. I couldn't find a transcript, and the computer I'm on right now has a faulty sound system, so I can't listen to any videos.

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Old 23rd January 2020, 01:00 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
This is a silly argument. Perhaps you read a different connotation than I do. I also read the news headline to be ginning the issue up. A misleading manner suggests the desire to mislead.

I don't see the point in this tedium beyond that.
Okay, so you can't find an example of what you call the "default definition" and you admit that rather than being the "default definition" it's just something that you personally infer, contrary to the actual definition. Glad we're on the same page.
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Old 23rd January 2020, 02:08 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
I saw a clip from Fox News yesterday. The chyron read: AFTER RAMMING THROUGH BOGUS IMPEACHMENT SHAM, HOUSE DEMS NOW MOANING ABOUT FAIRNESS IN SENATE TRIAL

They had a feed of Adam Schiff delivering opening arguments (muted) while the upper right-corner had a scroll of Trump's accomplishments (renegotiated NAFTA, started buildng the wall, etc). Someone on Twitter described it as "State TV on steroids." ******' idiocracy.
The Trump Administration's version of Tsentral'noye televideniye SSSR... acts just like it too!
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Old 23rd January 2020, 03:01 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Huh. I always read that as "the GOP has been taken over by Trump", not "there is a faction of the GOP that is pro-Trump".
Given that President Trump has a 95% approval rating within the GOP then I think that's a distinction without a significant difference.

That's not to say that it was a hostile take-over, the GOP has willingly aligned itself to President Trump and his objectives and in the process has seems to have changed some of its fundamental principles such as free trade and fiscal responsibility.
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Old 23rd January 2020, 06:32 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Yes. But their primary responsibility is foreign policy oversight.
There's a difference between Senators overseeing foreign policy by consensus of the Senate, and the Senators conducting diplomacy themselves as individuals.
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Old 23rd January 2020, 07:42 AM   #139
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I was pretty impressed with Schiff's delivery yesterday. It was repetitive but very clear. He did an outstanding job of using Trump's own words, pressers and statements against him to expose what he was doing. Everything was laid out in an easy to understand way.

I find it hard to think the Dem's didn't have this as their plan all along. Schiff really, REALLY nailed home that the defense can't claim that what the House managers are saying is wrong because the defense is sitting on the evidence. If they want to prove the House wrong they can literally provide evidence any time they want without any issue at all. I thought it was great and really put the defense in a box.
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Old 23rd January 2020, 07:58 AM   #140
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Because here's probably a more appropriate place than the general Trump Presidency thread...

The Senate Republicans didn't even try to follow the set rules, with no consequences from Roberts.

Quote:
So naturally, throughout the day, Republicans left their seats, wandered out into the hallways, and complained that they were “bored.” Though the rules of the trial require all senators to be present, double-digit numbers of Republicans were missing at any given time. At least one, Missouri’s Josh Hawley, found an opportunity to make an appearance with Fox News’ Tucker Carlson during the trial … without garnering as much as the shake of a finger from Chief Justice John Roberts.
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Old 23rd January 2020, 08:00 AM   #141
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Why would roberts say anything? It's not like he has any real power here.
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Old 23rd January 2020, 08:00 AM   #142
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Pull one of their tricks. Shut and lock the doors and have the vote without them.
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Old 23rd January 2020, 08:01 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Because here's probably a more appropriate place than the general Trump Presidency thread...

The Senate Republicans didn't even try to follow the set rules, with no consequences from Roberts.

Is there any way they could arrange to have the vote to convict/acquit taken when double digit numbers of Republicans are out in the hallway?

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Old 23rd January 2020, 08:09 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Why would roberts say anything? It's not like he has any real power here.
Mmm. Perhaps I was wrong in thinking that the one presiding over the proceedings would be more than a flower pot.
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Old 23rd January 2020, 08:17 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Why would roberts say anything? It's not like he has any real power here.
Given that he also has to run the Supreme Court, it would be more productive for him to catch some zzz's during the Trial.
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Old 23rd January 2020, 08:21 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Do as I say, not as I do?
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Old 23rd January 2020, 10:02 AM   #147
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Interesting twitter thread on a newly-filed FOIA request from the NYT re Ukraine documents, in which various claims of privilege are debunked
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Old 23rd January 2020, 10:04 AM   #148
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https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/stat...93490476371968

Quote:
Highly notable stuff from @MZanona:

Trump ally Rep. GAETZ praised Dems' use of multimedia, which he said gave their trial presentation a "cable news" feel ...

Unlike the Trump team, whose presentation Gaetz said felt like “an 8th grade book report.”
Article embedded in tweet. Notable because Gaetz was a full-on lapdog, but then got on the wrong side of Trump & the rest of the GOP. This could be an indicator that the split will increase from here on in.
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Old 23rd January 2020, 10:10 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/stat...93490476371968



Article embedded in tweet. Notable because Gaetz was a full-on lapdog, but then got on the wrong side of Trump & the rest of the GOP. This could be an indicator that the split will increase from here on in.
What happened between him and Trump?
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Old 23rd January 2020, 10:15 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
What happened between him and Trump?
Gaetz voted to limit his powers in the Middle East.
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Old 23rd January 2020, 10:16 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Gaetz voted to limit his powers in the Middle East.
Oops. Someone should have told him that this was a big no-no.
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Old 23rd January 2020, 10:26 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Re: Why Congess Critter Gaetz is currently in Trump's doghouse...
Quote:
Gaetz voted to limit his powers in the Middle East.
Oops. Someone should have told him that this was a big no-no.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...nt-team-102534

Yeah. I guess he thought he was supposed to be on Trump's impeachment defense team. Supposedly it was Trump's legislative Affairs Director Eric Ueland who pushed for him not to be included.

This should serve as a warning to anyone who might want to support Trump: Loyalty is non-existent, and you can be dropped the moment it is politically expedient. Gaetz had been a pretty vocal pro-Trump supporter, and now he's on the outs.

Of course, with Trump's track record of turning his back on allies, Gaetz shouldn't have been surprised.
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Old 23rd January 2020, 10:49 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Of course, with Trump's track record of turning his back on allies, Gaetz shouldn't have been surprised.
And yet Trump still has allies that believe it won't happen to them.
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Old 23rd January 2020, 11:27 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I was pretty impressed with Schiff's delivery yesterday. It was repetitive but very clear. He did an outstanding job of using Trump's own words, pressers and statements against him to expose what he was doing. Everything was laid out in an easy to understand way.

I find it hard to think the Dem's didn't have this as their plan all along. Schiff really, REALLY nailed home that the defense can't claim that what the House managers are saying is wrong because the defense is sitting on the evidence. If they want to prove the House wrong they can literally provide evidence any time they want without any issue at all. I thought it was great and really put the defense in a box.
I agree. Schiff did a damn fine job of presenting the evidence. It was clear, organized and well supported. On the other hand, all the Repubs had is their typical rhetoric of "the Dems want to overturn the 2016 election" nonsense. It's pathetic.
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Old 23rd January 2020, 11:29 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
And yet Trump still has allies that believe it won't happen to them.
It reminds me of that account:

First they came for the (oppressed group)
and I didn't say anything
Then they came for the (other oppressed group)
and I didn't say anything
(continue for several iterations)
They they came for me
because there was no one else left.
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Old 23rd January 2020, 11:29 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
And yet Trump still has allies that believe it won't happen to them.
Insert "I never thought the leopards would eat MY face" meme here.

It reminds me of the people who marry someone who cheated on their spouse with them, and are then flabbergasted when they themselves are cheated upon.
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Old 23rd January 2020, 12:07 PM   #157
Horatius
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Of course, with Trump's track record of turning his back on allies, Gaetz shouldn't have been surprised.


Trump's Theme Song:

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Old 23rd January 2020, 12:20 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I agree. Schiff did a damn fine job of presenting the evidence. It was clear, organized and well supported. On the other hand, all the Repubs had is their typical rhetoric of "the Dems want to overturn the 2016 election" nonsense. It's pathetic.
If you want to see up close examples of what corrupt behaviour in the legislative body of a Banana Republic looks like, look no further than the actions of the Republican Senators for the next few days.
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Old 23rd January 2020, 12:24 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
If you want to see up close examples of what corrupt behaviour in the legislative body of a Banana Republic looks like, look no further than the actions of the Republican Senators for the next few days.
Lindsey Graham actually gave props to Schiff, it was pretty neat for those two.
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Old 23rd January 2020, 12:47 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Not all of the right, or even Republicans, support Trump. It's one reason I try to use the qualifier 'the Trump GOP' when making such observations.
Oh fiddle faddle.

According to the Trumpster, he has a 95% approval record among Republicans, which, he claims, is a record level of support. So saying that Republicans support Trump is apparently more true now than it has ever been for any President in history.

Now, if those non-Trump supporting Republicans have a problem with any of that, then they need stand up and do something about it. If you don't like being lumped in with Trumpets, then take that up with the person who is lumping you in there in the first place, and that is the President.

If the 95% is a lie, then make it known. Don't sit quietly while the President claims you as a supporter and then whine when you get lumped in as a supporter by someone else.
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