ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Congressional hearings , donald trump , impeachment , Trump administration , Trump controversies

Reply
Old 23rd January 2020, 07:16 PM   #201
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 88,912
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Putin =/= Russia.
At this point I'm not sure there's a distinction.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd January 2020, 07:25 PM   #202
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 11,454
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Actually, they showed videos of Trump saying outright that he wanted the Bidens investigated. It appears he said it on multiple occasions.
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

He can't help himself. He doesn't get it you can't ask foreign governments to investigate your political opponents. Which is especially insane given he claimed it was wrong for Obama to investigate his campaign.



There was an interesting comment on BBC news tonight. When the Constitution was written, there was no criminal code. So Dershy's claim the Founders meant for Impeachment to be for an actual crime was impossible.

Dershy's going to be laughed at by his peers.


Of course when gaslighting is as successful as it is for Trump and his minions, I suppose they don't care.
Many Constitutional scholars disagree with Dershowitz...including Turley, the GOP's witness during the hearings.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd January 2020, 07:32 PM   #203
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 79,906
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Many Constitutional scholars disagree with Dershowitz...including Turley, the GOP's witness during the hearings.
Never mind, I misread that.
__________________
Trump Lied, People Died What color hat should I order with that logo? I think red on black.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd January 2020, 07:34 PM   #204
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 24,501
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Actually, they showed videos of Trump saying outright that he wanted the Bidens investigated. It appears he said it on multiple occasions.
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

He can't help himself. He doesn't get it you can't ask foreign governments to investigate your political opponents. Which is especially insane given he claimed it was wrong for Obama to investigate his campaign.

There was an interesting comment on BBC news tonight. When the Constitution was written, there was no criminal code. So Dershy's claim the Founders meant for Impeachment to be for an actual crime was impossible.

Dershy's going to be laughed at by his peers.

Of course when gaslighting is as successful as it is for Trump and his minions, I suppose they don't care.
His peers have been laughing at him for years. Long before Trump.

But you misunderstand Dershowitz and his values. He doesn't consider himself to be a Constitutional scholar. He views himself as a defense attorney. He lies on TV for his clients as he views that as a full throated defense of his clients. That's his job. Anything less and he thinks that would be a dereliction of his duty. He sees that as his overriding ethical principle.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd January 2020, 08:12 PM   #205
I Am The Scum
Illuminator
 
I Am The Scum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,261
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Many Constitutional scholars disagree with Dershowitz...including Turley, the GOP's witness during the hearings.
Dershowitz is even disagreeing with himself from the Clinton impeachment. Back then, he said a crime wasn't required to move forward, now he's saying it is. Of course, he refuses to acknowledge the contradiction.

He isn't adding anything to the conversation except his dubious reputation and desire to see himself on TV.
I Am The Scum is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd January 2020, 08:42 PM   #206
Cabbage
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,463
Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Of course, he refuses to acknowledge the contradiction.

I believe his actual quote was, "I wasn't wrong then but I'm more right now".
Cabbage is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd January 2020, 08:51 PM   #207
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 24,501
Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Dershowitz is even disagreeing with himself from the Clinton impeachment. Back then, he said a crime wasn't required to move forward, now he's saying it is. Of course, he refuses to acknowledge the contradiction.

He isn't adding anything to the conversation except his dubious reputation and desire to see himself on TV.
The whole "it has to be a crime to be an impeachable offense" Is deserving of detision.
Never mind the fact there wasn't a Federal criminal code in 1789.
Never mind the comments of Madison and Hamilton who explicitly said that impeachment articles needn't be a criminal offense.
Never mind that there were very few crimes in any the articles of impeachment levied against the14 other government officials previously impeached.

Anyone prsenting the argument should be embarrassed. But my guess is that most of those presenting the argument know that it's absurd. This is all misdirection directed at the uninformed and lazy members of the electorate.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.

Last edited by acbytesla; 23rd January 2020 at 09:04 PM.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd January 2020, 08:53 PM   #208
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 79,906
Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Dershowitz is even disagreeing with himself from the Clinton impeachment. Back then, he said a crime wasn't required to move forward, now he's saying it is. Of course, he refuses to acknowledge the contradiction.

He isn't adding anything to the conversation except his dubious reputation and desire to see himself on TV.
He wrote that off with the lie he knows more now.
__________________
Trump Lied, People Died What color hat should I order with that logo? I think red on black.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd January 2020, 08:58 PM   #209
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 20,669
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
He doesn't get it you can't ask foreign governments to investigate your political opponents.
Why not? Why do people keep saying that?

Do I think it is a quite awful thing to do? Yes. Do I think it's a crime? No.

Withholding the aid is pretty bad. Bad enough to throw an elected president out of office? Take a poll and find out.




ETA: Let me elaborate slightly, although it's really just repeating what has already been said. I think it makes the President look bad. Petty. Childish. About half sane. Everything we know about Trump. Politically, it could be a winner. But impeachable? That's really a matter of opinion, and the opinions aren't there to throw him out.

The only question is whether this campaign commercial will play out well for the Democrats or for the Republicans. To me, it seems like the Republicans are going to get the upper hand, but I would gladly be proven wrong.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 23rd January 2020 at 09:01 PM.
Meadmaker is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd January 2020, 09:03 PM   #210
Tero
Graduate Poster
 
Tero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North American prairie
Posts: 1,814
Another lame column by Ted Cruz backer
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/23/opini...art/index.html
Tero is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd January 2020, 09:04 PM   #211
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 79,906
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Why not? Why do people keep saying that?

Do I think it is a quite awful thing to do? Yes. Do I think it's a crime? No.

Withholding the aid is pretty bad. Bad enough to throw an elected president out of office? Take a poll and find out.

ETA: Let me elaborate slightly, although it's really just repeating what has already been said. I think it makes the President look bad. Petty. Childish. About half sane. Everything we know about Trump. Politically, it could be a winner. But impeachable? That's really a matter of opinion, and the opinions aren't there to throw him out.

The only question is whether this campaign commercial will play out well for the Democrats or for the Republicans. To me, it seems like the Republicans are going to get the upper hand, but I would gladly be proven wrong.
Did it just go over your head how corrupt Trump is?
__________________
Trump Lied, People Died What color hat should I order with that logo? I think red on black.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd January 2020, 09:34 PM   #212
Norman Alexander
Philosopher
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 6,878
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
At this point I'm not sure there's a distinction [that Putin =/= Russia].
Fair point.

Mind you, Trump wants the same thing: "Trump=USA".
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd January 2020, 09:35 PM   #213
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 24,501
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Why not? Why do people keep saying that?

Do I think it is a quite awful thing to do? Yes. Do I think it's a crime? No.

Withholding the aid is pretty bad. Bad enough to throw an elected president out of office? Take a poll and find out.

ETA: Let me elaborate slightly, although it's really just repeating what has already been said. I think it makes the President look bad. Petty. Childish. About half sane. Everything we know about Trump. Politically, it could be a winner. But impeachable? That's really a matter of opinion, and the opinions aren't there to throw him out.

The only question is whether this campaign commercial will play out well for the Democrats or for the Republicans. To me, it seems like the Republicans are going to get the upper hand, but I would gladly be proven wrong.
I wonder what it takes for someone to sell out like you do with this post.

People in government wield a great deal of power. But that power doesn't belong to them. It belongs to the American people. Not to the government officials themselves. They are working on our behalf, not their own. But obviously you and Trump don't care given that he violated the Emoluments clause of the Constitution even before he became President and continues to violate it to this day.

By asking a foreign power to do this, Trump is stealing what doesn't belong to him. It's no different than a hired clerk tapping the till. In this case it is more than 400 million dollars. It constitutes defrauding the American people and elections.

I know you care about the integity of our elections.

It is also bribery and extortion.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.

Last edited by acbytesla; 23rd January 2020 at 09:50 PM.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd January 2020, 09:43 PM   #214
Norman Alexander
Philosopher
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 6,878
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger
He doesn't get it you can't ask foreign governments to investigate your political opponents.
Why not? Why do people keep saying that?
This is why, apparently.

Quote:
52 U.S. Code § 30121. Contributions and donations by foreign nationals
(a) Prohibition It shall be unlawful for—
(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make—
(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;

(B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or
(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or
(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/30121
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd January 2020, 10:12 PM   #215
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,919
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Why not? Why do people keep saying that?

Do I think it is a quite awful thing to do? Yes. Do I think it's a crime? No.
.....

You're not a lawyer, are you?

Bribery, extortion and soliciting foreign assistance in political campaigns are crimes.

Quote:
Former CIA and DOD Chief Of Staff Jeremy Bash outlined three felony crimes that Trump committed when he tried to pressure Ukraine to investigate Biden.

Bash said on MSNBC’s Deadline: White House, “Assuming the reports are true, I see three crimes here. One is extortion by the president, using a threat of withholding aid to obtain something of value. The second crime is conspiracy to engage in extortion between the president and Rudy Giuliani. And third crime is conspiracy to violate election law, given there may be three underlying crimes, I think we’re beyond the issue of the whistleblower.
https://www.politicususa.com/2019/09...s-ukraine.html

Quote:
Judge Andrew Napolitano told Fox News host Shepard Smith on Tuesday that the president effectively confessed to a crime when he admitted he asked Ukraine to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden and his son, Hunter.

Napolitano, a Fox News senior judicial analyst, had framed President Trump's earlier statement as an admission that he tried to "solicit aid for his campaign from a foreign government."

“So that to which the president has admitted is in and of itself a crime,” Smith followed. Napolitano responded, "yes," and claimed it was the same crime former Special Counsel Robert Mueller investigated as part of the long-running Russia investigation.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/judge-...admitted-crime
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd January 2020, 10:43 PM   #216
BobTheCoward
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 18,643
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Why not? Why do people keep saying that?

Do I think it is a quite awful thing to do? Yes. Do I think it's a crime? No.

Withholding the aid is pretty bad. Bad enough to throw an elected president out of office? Take a poll and find out.




ETA: Let me elaborate slightly, although it's really just repeating what has already been said. I think it makes the President look bad. Petty. Childish. About half sane. Everything we know about Trump. Politically, it could be a winner. But impeachable? That's really a matter of opinion, and the opinions aren't there to throw him out.

The only question is whether this campaign commercial will play out well for the Democrats or for the Republicans. To me, it seems like the Republicans are going to get the upper hand, but I would gladly be proven wrong.
As a matter of your opinion, do you think it is impeachable?
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2020, 02:06 AM   #217
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 13,660
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Why not? Why do people keep saying that?

Do I think it is a quite awful thing to do? Yes. Do I think it's a crime? No.

Withholding the aid is pretty bad. Bad enough to throw an elected president out of office? Take a poll and find out.




ETA: Let me elaborate slightly, although it's really just repeating what has already been said. I think it makes the President look bad. Petty. Childish. About half sane. Everything we know about Trump. Politically, it could be a winner. But impeachable? That's really a matter of opinion, and the opinions aren't there to throw him out.

The only question is whether this campaign commercial will play out well for the Democrats or for the Republicans. To me, it seems like the Republicans are going to get the upper hand, but I would gladly be proven wrong.
He used the Office of the President of the United States to involve the leader of an allied foreign government in a scheme to smear the reputation of a political opponent... that is using the Office for personal gain... and you don't think that is an impeachable offence?

Furthermore, the methodology he used in an attempt to get a foreign leader to announce bogus investigations of that political opponent, was to withhold financial aid to that allied foreign government which had been duly authorised by Congress. This in itself was an illegal act, a violation of 2 USC§681-8 (the Impoundment Control act), a piece of legislation that was passed specifically to prevent a POTUS doing what Trump did. That's not to mention that doing so was an act of extortion or bribery, both criminal acts. I guess you think its OK for POTUS to outright, deliberately break the Law and commit criminal acts.

I promise you, if any other western leader or politician had done what Trump had done, he/she would resign or be thrown out by their own party.
__________________
"You can't promote principled anti-corruption action without pissing-off corrupt people!" - George Kent on Day one of the Trump Impeachment Hearings

If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2020, 03:22 AM   #218
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 88,912
Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Dershowitz is even disagreeing with himself from the Clinton impeachment. Back then, he said a crime wasn't required to move forward, now he's saying it is.
Actually, he tried to correct himself by saying the same thing again, that it doesn't require a 'technical crime' but that it requires a crime-like thing.

It must really suck to have to be so partisan all the time.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2020, 03:24 AM   #219
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 88,912
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Fair point.

Mind you, Trump wants the same thing: "Trump=USA".
Well, he says it often enough.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2020, 03:29 AM   #220
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 27,340
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
At this point, Trump could tweet a confession admitting he did exactly what the Dems have shown he did and the GOP would claim he was just kidding or the media is misrepresenting what the confession said.
He bragged, on camera, about obstructing justice just the other day. It really doesn't matter.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2020, 06:03 AM   #221
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 27,340
Fox News' legal analyst explains why Trump should be removed from office
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2020, 06:04 AM   #222
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 27,340
https://twitter.com/mattmfm/status/1...916677120?s=20

Quote:
CBS News reports that GOP Senators have been warned by Trump team: "Vote against the president, and your head will be on a pike." How is this acceptable?
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2020, 06:08 AM   #223
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 88,912
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2020, 06:48 AM   #224
Fast Eddie B
Philosopher
 
Fast Eddie B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 6,124
Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
I believe his actual quote was, "I wasn't wrong then but I'm more right now".
Better would have been, “It depends on what the definition of “wrong” is.”
__________________
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that...I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” - President Donald J. Trump, January 20, 2017.
"And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017.
Fast Eddie B is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2020, 07:15 AM   #225
Tero
Graduate Poster
 
Tero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North American prairie
Posts: 1,814
The impeachment article in Wikipedia is slow to develop, but this one is nearly done
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%...kraine_scandal
On September 25, the administration released the White House's five-page, declassified memorandum of the July 25 phone call between Trump and Zelensky.[135][136][137][a] In the call, Trump pressed for an investigation into the Bidens and CrowdStrike, saying: "I would like to have the [U.S.] Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it."[136] Trump falsely told Zelensky "Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution" of his son, Hunter; Biden did not stop any prosecution, did not brag about doing so, and there is no evidence his son was ever under investigation.[138]

footnote 138 goes to
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/25/polit...est/index.html

Last edited by Tero; 24th January 2020 at 07:40 AM.
Tero is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2020, 07:37 AM   #226
The Shrike
Philosopher
 
The Shrike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,122
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
...misdirection directed at the uninformed and lazy members of the electorate.
Spent a few days at home with my mom last week – in her 80s but sharp and spry and very opinionated. And she will vote.

She watches her local news every day. This provides her with a steady diet of crime reports and other mayhem in her own community. This reinforces her racism and general fear of crime destroying said community.

She refuses to watch any national news coverage. She despises partisan sniping. Anytime that the local news would cover the impeachment hearings her response was "Ugh, turn that off. I can't stand listening to it!"

It occurred to me that she is the quintessential low-information voter. She's not a Fox News deplorable. She's well-read and intelligent. But she quite on purpose has next to no knowledge of the current national/international issues that folks like us discuss here every day. Mueller Report? Detention centers on the border? Burisma? Soleimani? Ballooning deficit? Nada.

My great revelation about the impeachment hearings, then? It's not just people covering for the President versus sentient humans of integrity, the sentient folks with integrity must also battle what is probably a big group of people who know shockingly little about these proceedings, why they're happening, etc.

PS: She's a registered Democrat.
The Shrike is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2020, 08:18 AM   #227
Tero
Graduate Poster
 
Tero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North American prairie
Posts: 1,814
If you gave money to the Trump campaign, you got it paid back by (Russian? Republican? ) sources:

Parnas' company, which offered products and services to guard against investment fraud, had no sign of any customers at the time of the contributions. However, it later received a $1.5 million investment from Magnolia Ventures, a New York City-based venture capital fund.

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/4531125002
Tero is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2020, 08:34 AM   #228
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 20,669
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Did it just go over your head how corrupt Trump is?
If so, it went over the rest of the country's head as well.
Meadmaker is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2020, 08:44 AM   #229
Crazy Chainsaw
Philosopher
 
Crazy Chainsaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,345
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
If so, it went over the rest of the country's head as well.
No there has been a coordinated campaign to Hide the Courption of the Alt Right and conservative media though Intimation and violence for years, look at the constant threats against Aborting providers or anyone that calls out the Racist Neo Nazis.
Especially when it involves Fox news and Conservative Celerity's like Sean Hannity.
They don't want their people to know the Truth and these prolifers would kill to prevent the Truth from being known.
Crazy Chainsaw is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2020, 08:46 AM   #230
Cabbage
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,463
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
If so, it went over the rest of the country's head as well.

No.

Going over someone's head =/= Falling on deaf ears/blind eyes

It can't go over someone's head when they never paid attention to begin with.
Cabbage is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2020, 09:01 AM   #231
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 42,782
I think a lot of the country assumes (rightly or wrongly) that most politicians are pretty corrupt.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2020, 09:07 AM   #232
I Am The Scum
Illuminator
 
I Am The Scum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,261
Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
I believe his actual quote was, "I wasn't wrong then but I'm more right now".
"I was not wrong when I said the coin toss was heads. Now, I'm even more right when I say the coin toss was tails."
I Am The Scum is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2020, 09:10 AM   #233
I Am The Scum
Illuminator
 
I Am The Scum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,261
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Why not? Why do people keep saying that?
Only a fool would believe there was some legitimate concern of criminal activity behind Trump's withholding of the aid.

I'll make this as simple as possible: What crime was Donald Trump interested in being investigated? Was Hunter Biden bribing lawmakers? Was Hunter Biden shaking down competitors with the assistance of the mob? Is Hunter Biden a serial killer? Tell me what crime is actually suspected to have happened. Be as specific as possible.
I Am The Scum is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2020, 09:14 AM   #234
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 54,429
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I think a lot of the country assumes (rightly or wrongly) that most politicians are pretty corrupt.
Yeah, but there's a wide range between scratching a few backs and competing with N'Zoth.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2020, 09:16 AM   #235
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 23,759
1 in 3 Republicans think Trump did something illegal, but just 1 in 10 think he should be removed from office.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/23/polit...law/index.html
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2020, 09:18 AM   #236
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 88,912
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
1 in 3 Republicans think Trump did something illegal, but just 1 in 10 think he should be removed from office.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/23/polit...law/index.html
Evolution of the GOP position on impeachment:
"It doesn't take a crime."
"It doesn't take a technical crime."
"It requires a crime."
"It requires a crime-like behaviour."
"It doesn't really matter."
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2020, 09:33 AM   #237
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 20,669
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I wonder what it takes for someone to sell out like you do with this post.

People in government wield a great deal of power. But that power doesn't belong to them. It belongs to the American people.
If you were to go back and read my post, I think you would find that that is what I said.
Meadmaker is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2020, 09:39 AM   #238
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 20,669
Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Only a fool would believe there was some legitimate concern of criminal activity behind Trump's withholding of the aid.

I'll make this as simple as possible: What crime was Donald Trump interested in being investigated? Was Hunter Biden bribing lawmakers? Was Hunter Biden shaking down competitors with the assistance of the mob? Is Hunter Biden a serial killer? Tell me what crime is actually suspected to have happened. Be as specific as possible.
Influence peddling and/or bribery.

I'm not saying he did those things, or even that there is any evidence of those things. I am saying that some people suspected him of those things.
Meadmaker is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2020, 09:41 AM   #239
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 20,669
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
As a matter of your opinion, do you think it is impeachable?
Yes.
Meadmaker is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2020, 09:50 AM   #240
eeyore1954
Philosopher
 
eeyore1954's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Why not? Why do people keep saying that?

Do I think it is a quite awful thing to do? Yes. Do I think it's a crime? No.

Withholding the aid is pretty bad. Bad enough to throw an elected president out of office? Take a poll and find out.

Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I wonder what it takes for someone to sell out like you do with this post.
Can't you fathom that an intelligent reasonably non partisan person (Meadmaker's posts usually appear non partisan to me) can arrive at that conclusion?
Why do you need to accuse Meadmaker of selling out?
eeyore1954 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:08 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.