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Tags Congressional hearings , donald trump , impeachment , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 24th January 2020, 02:22 PM   #281
Fast Eddie B
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Well he wasn't President yet, so it's ok
I know that was facetious, but worth pointing that, as President, he lied about his involvement with paying Stormy off, on Air Force One, no less.
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Old 24th January 2020, 02:32 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
No, it's not difficult at all. Well, maybe for you.

It's been well documented from previous employees of Trump's that his staff has kept him in check in a bunch of different situations. That's why the those people aren't there anymore, because he got sick of them talking him out of things.
Yeah, remember when Trump tried to fire Mueller (as well as do some other shady things) and those who were supposed to carry out the orders just ignored him.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...public-n990191

So yeah, the idea that Trump might give an order but not have it carried out immediately is not without precedent.
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Old 24th January 2020, 02:33 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Yeah, remember when Trump tried to fire Mueller (as well as do some other shady things) and those who were supposed to carry out the orders just ignored him.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...public-n990191

So yeah, the idea that Trump might give an order but not have it carried out immediately is not without precedent.
If I remember correctly one of his lawyers threatened to quit over it.
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Old 24th January 2020, 02:51 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Quote:
Yeah, remember when Trump tried to fire Mueller (as well as do some other shady things) and those who were supposed to carry out the orders just ignored him.
If I remember correctly one of his lawyers threatened to quit over it.
The article goes into some detail about it.

It was white house lawyer Don McGahn who was told to get Rosenstein to fire Mueller. McGahn decided instead to pack his office, and was about to submit his resignation letter to the Chief of Staff.

It should be noted that McGhan was with Trump since his campaign (so he wasn't some sort of new addition). You figure he would have had some loyalty. Says something about Trump if he can actually act in a way that alienates someone who has been with him that long.
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Old 24th January 2020, 03:50 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
During the hearings, a member of the Democrats talked about "FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) lawsuits", and how they are no substitute for proper congressional oversight.
I know this isn't your point, but sometimes I think FOIA is a better mechanism for oversight than Congress. It can't directly remove a president, but Congress never seems to have the will to do that anyway.

Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Where is the judge in this situation? Did he correct the record?
I wasn't watching so I don't know how big of an issue this is but sometimes I feel like this stuff is barely worth correcting. Thinking of all the B.S. that's already on record, I'm not sure it's even worth correcting what I'm pretty sure is an obvious brain fart or hearing glitch.

Last edited by Minoosh; 24th January 2020 at 03:54 PM. Reason: Garble
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Old 24th January 2020, 03:55 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Where is the judge in this situation? Did he correct the record?
Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
The judge is just for show. He doesn't have any actual power or oversight.
Also, he's not a judge in this role. He's the acting President of the Senate.
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Old 24th January 2020, 04:04 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Also, he's not a judge in this role. He's the acting President of the Senate.
He is presiding over the impeachment trial. That's what the constitution tells him to do. The person who presides over a trial is the judge.

If he is just watching and only there to break ties, he is not presiding
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Old 24th January 2020, 04:17 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
He is presiding over the impeachment trial. That's what the constitution tells him to do. The person who presides over a trial is the judge.

If he is just watching and only there to break ties, he is not presiding
Rehnquist knew exactly how seriously to take the chief justice's role in an impeachment trial.
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Old 24th January 2020, 04:48 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
He is presiding over the impeachment trial. That's what the constitution tells him to do. The person who presides over a trial is the judge.

If he is just watching and only there to break ties, he is not presiding
The person who presides over the Senate is the President of the Senate. They don't magically become a judge when the Senate is trying an impeachment.

The closest thing to a judge in this process is the Senators, collectively.
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Old 24th January 2020, 05:06 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Foxnews….really?????

More and more I think we are being trolled here.
Nah. What we have here is a Kool Aid overdose. Pity there's no Narcan type reversal equivalent.
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Old 24th January 2020, 05:20 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The person who presides over the Senate is the President of the Senate. They don't magically become a judge when the Senate is trying an impeachment.

The closest thing to a judge in this process is the Senators, collectively.
The constitution does not direct the CJ to preside over the senate, he presides over the impeachment trial.
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Old 24th January 2020, 05:21 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Foxnews….really?????



More and more I think we are being trolled here.
If you both read to the end there is an interesting comment from the reporter.

Quote:
While Sekulow is correct that Hamilton's message was not about impeachment, Schiff and Nadler were careful to note in their remarks that the Hamilton quote was about the type of leader that would be most harmful to the American government and not*about impeachment.

"The framers worried then, as we worry today, that a leader might come to power not to carry out the will of the people that he was elected to represent, but to pursue his own interests," Schiff said Wednesday. "A fear that a president would subvert our democracy by abusing the awesome power of his office for his own personal or political gain."
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Old 24th January 2020, 05:37 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
So an awkward moment for Trump's legal team...

During the hearings, a member of the Democrats talked about "FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) lawsuits", and how they are no substitute for proper congressional oversight.

Trump defender Jay Sekulow seized on the comment, but misunderstood, thinking the speaker said "Lawyer lawsuits". He then began a rant:

“Lawyer lawsuits? We’re talking about the impeachment of a president of the United States, duly elected, and the members, the managers, are complaining about lawyer lawsuits?” Sekulow said. “The Constitution allows lawyer lawsuits.”

Umm, first of all, nobody used the term 'lawyer lawsuits' (except Sekulow).

Secondly, nobody was suggesting FOIA lawsuits (or 'lawyer lawsuits') don't have their place, just that they aren't as effective in proving congressional oversight.

ETA: Sorry, forgot link.

http://www.abajournal.com/news/artic...-foia-lawsuits

What's all this I hear about "lawyer lawsuits"?!? I think it's horrible that President Trump wants to get rid of lawyer lawsuits! What are we supposed to do when we slip and fall? Go to court by ourselves? We need people to help us! I don't know how to talk to a judge all by myself, my lawyer has to...

(Chevy Chase whispers in ear....)

Oh.....never mind.
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Old 24th January 2020, 05:39 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
If so, it went over the rest of the country's head as well.
The rest of the country as in Trump's 30-40% of his followers, yes.

The rest of the country as in the rest of us, no.

Let's see, you want people to give you money but there are rules. So have them donate millions to Trump's inauguration fund then you dole that out to yourself NPR: District Of Columbia Sues Inaugural Committee For 'Grossly Overpaying' At Trump Hotel
Quote:
The District of Columbia is suing President Trump's inaugural committee, the Trump Organization and the Trump International Hotel in Washington, accusing them of "grossly overpaying" for event space at the hotel to enrich the president's family during the 2017 inauguration.

The funds to rent the hotel space came from the inaugural committee. As a nonprofit, the committee was not legally allowed to use "any portion of its funds to be spent in a way that are designed to benefit private persons or companies," according to the lawsuit. The committee spent more than a million dollars to rent the hotel space, a cost that D.C. Attorney General Karl Racine says is far above market rate.

The evidence list is endless. Do you need more?
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Old 24th January 2020, 05:41 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I think a lot of the country assumes (rightly or wrongly) that most politicians are pretty corrupt.


You going to drag this tired false equivalence out again?
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Old 24th January 2020, 05:45 PM   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I think a lot of the country assumes (rightly or wrongly) that most politicians are pretty corrupt.
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post


You going to drag this tired false equivalence out again?
Beating a dead horse may actually result in its revival if beaten often enough. That seems to be the hope of some posters.
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Old 24th January 2020, 05:46 PM   #297
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Judging from Trump's minions repeating the argument Biden did something corrupt, as if they are going to focus on that BS as Trump's defense, the Democrats should have put more emphasis on the fact the prosecutor Biden got removed was protecting Burisma not prosecuting them.

They covered it, but not enough IMO.
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Old 24th January 2020, 05:52 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
: rolleyes :

You going to drag this tired false equivalence out again?
I'm talking about public perception.
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Old 24th January 2020, 05:56 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
You didn't read beyond the headline, did you? Towards the end:
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Old 24th January 2020, 06:25 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm talking about public perception.
Yeah, read my sig
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Old 24th January 2020, 06:36 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Yeah, read my sig
I have sigs turned off.
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Old 24th January 2020, 07:24 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
No, it's not difficult at all. Well, maybe for you.

It's been well documented from previous employees of Trump's that his staff has kept him in check in a bunch of different situations. That's why the those people aren't there anymore, because he got sick of them talking him out of things.

The ambassador was extremely well respected among her peers, and I have no doubts that they put it off as long as they could.
So what does parnas have to do with it? He isn't involved in any of the behaviors you mentioned. He neither held trump in check nor helped advance the firing.
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Old 24th January 2020, 08:24 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
So what does parnas have to do with it? He isn't involved in any of the behaviors you mentioned. He neither held trump in check nor helped advance the firing.
Err what? Who are you, Bob van Winkle?
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Old 24th January 2020, 08:24 PM   #304
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Mike Pompeo reacted very badly to an interview he agreed to with NPR. After Pompeo ended the interview he asked NPR's Mary Kelly to speak with him in a private office. He had an aide bring in an unmarked map and challenged Kelly to find Ukraine. When she pointed to it immediately Pompeo apparently became even angrier.
Quote:
This evening the story took another turn, when we learned about an interview that Mary Louise Kelly, a host of NPR’s “All Things Considered,” conducted today with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. After a series of tough questions about why Mr. Pompeo had not done more to publicly back Ms. Yovanovitch during the impeachment inquiry — a subject the secretary of state has avoided addressing for months — Mr. Pompeo called Ms. Kelly to a private room.

Once inside, Ms. Kelly said, Mr. Pompeo unleashed an expletive-laden tirade at her. He asked her, “Do you think Americans care about Ukraine?” and told an aide bring in an unmarked map to prove she could locate the country. Before ending the meeting, Ms. Kelly said, Mr. Pompeo told her: “People will hear about this.” Link
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Old 24th January 2020, 08:38 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Mike Pompeo reacted very badly to an interview he agreed to with NPR. After Pompeo ended the interview he asked NPR's Mary Kelly to speak with him in a private office. He had an aide bring in an unmarked map and challenged Kelly to find Ukraine. When she pointed to it immediately Pompeo apparently became even angrier.
Quote:
Quote:
This evening the story took another turn, when we learned about an interview that Mary Louise Kelly, a host of NPR’s “All Things Considered,” conducted today with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. After a series of tough questions about why Mr. Pompeo had not done more to publicly back Ms. Yovanovitch during the impeachment inquiry — a subject the secretary of state has avoided addressing for months — Mr. Pompeo called Ms. Kelly to a private room.

Once inside, Ms. Kelly said, Mr. Pompeo unleashed an expletive-laden tirade at her. He asked her, “Do you think Americans care about Ukraine?” and told an aide bring in an unmarked map to prove she could locate the country. Before ending the meeting, Ms. Kelly said, Mr. Pompeo told her: “People will hear about this.” Link
Yes, we are. And you look like an idiot, Mr. Secretary.
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Old 24th January 2020, 08:47 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
The rest of the country as in Trump's 30-40% of his followers, yes.

The rest of the country as in the rest of us, no.

Let's see, you want people to give you money but there are rules. So have them donate millions to Trump's inauguration fund then you dole that out to yourself NPR: District Of Columbia Sues Inaugural Committee For 'Grossly Overpaying' At Trump Hotel


The evidence list is endless. Do you need more?
Something like that could actually stick. Write up an article of impeachment about that, and you could have a winner. Of course, there's the "wolf" element we discussed before.

Of course, the devil is in the details. Is it really grossly overpaying, and did it really enrich Trump coffers? If so, that's something the American people can relate to, but space for gala events is actually pretty darned expensive. The fact that someone has made an accusation and turned that accusation into a lawsuit is just the first step. It doesn't mean the lawsuit has merit.

Still, it's worth pursuing. Never hurts to investigate.
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Old 24th January 2020, 08:51 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Mike Pompeo reacted very badly to an interview he agreed to with NPR. After Pompeo ended the interview he asked NPR's Mary Kelly to speak with him in a private office. He had an aide bring in an unmarked map and challenged Kelly to find Ukraine. When she pointed to it immediately Pompeo apparently became even angrier.
Well, he was right. People heard about it.

I know I sometimes defend Trump and his buds but it's not that I like them. Pompeo was being a total ……..oh what's the use, the autocensor would block it. I'll just say "jerk" instead.
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Old 24th January 2020, 08:54 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Mike Pompeo reacted very badly to an interview he agreed to with NPR. After Pompeo ended the interview he asked NPR's Mary Kelly to speak with him in a private office. He had an aide bring in an unmarked map and challenged Kelly to find Ukraine. When she pointed to it immediately Pompeo apparently became even angrier.


That’s just cartoonish. What a moron.
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Old 24th January 2020, 09:02 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Mike Pompeo reacted very badly to an interview he agreed to with NPR. After Pompeo ended the interview he asked NPR's Mary Kelly to speak with him in a private office. He had an aide bring in an unmarked map and challenged Kelly to find Ukraine. When she pointed to it immediately Pompeo apparently became even angrier.
You're omitting the context. The interview was supposed to be about Iran, but she violated the parameters of their agreement to ask about Ukraine. Evil bitch. She certainly has a face for radio. And I bet she's lying about the map stunt -- not that it didn't happen, but that she successfully identified Ukraine. She probably pointed to Russia but the magnanimous Pompeo marked her right on a technicality.
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Old 24th January 2020, 09:47 PM   #310
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From the NPR interview transcript.
Quote:
Pompeo: You know, I agreed to come on your show today to talk about Iran. That's what I intend to do. I know what our Ukraine policy has been now for the three years of this administration. I'm proud of the work we've done. This administration delivered the capability for the Ukrainians to defend themselves. President Obama showed up with MREs (meals ready to eat.) We showed up with Javelin missiles. The previous administration did nothing to take down corruption in Ukraine. We're working hard on that. We're going to continue to do it.

Kelly: I confirmed with your staff [crosstalk] last night that I would talk about Iran and Ukraine. transcript

Kelly began the interview with these words:
Quote:
Let's start with Iran.
I think Mary Louise Kelly has a good deal more credibility than Pompeo.
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Old 24th January 2020, 09:48 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Something like that could actually stick. Write up an article of impeachment about that, and you could have a winner. Of course, there's the "wolf" element we discussed before.

Of course, the devil is in the details. Is it really grossly overpaying, and did it really enrich Trump coffers? If so, that's something the American people can relate to, but space for gala events is actually pretty darned expensive. The fact that someone has made an accusation and turned that accusation into a lawsuit is just the first step. It doesn't mean the lawsuit has merit.

Still, it's worth pursuing. Never hurts to investigate.
So you are unaware of Trump's corruption? Do you just not read these accounts or something?
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Old 24th January 2020, 11:06 PM   #312
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Listening to Trump declare himself innocent and claim everyone is out to get him is incredibly infectious. His bull **** is so convincing. No wonder people are fooled.
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Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 24th January 2020, 11:23 PM   #313
Grizzly Bear
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Listening to Trump declare himself innocent and claim everyone is out to get him is incredibly infectious. His bull **** is so convincing. No wonder people are fooled.
Lots of that embellishment going around like CNN headlines reading "presidency in peril" during the impeachment inquiries... Nadler labeling Trump a Dictator on the 2nd article... Trump calling the Ukraine phone call "absolutely perfect".... I see a lot of people fooled by all of it. This impeachment would be rather entertaining as an embellishment matter if not for the fact that the repercussions are so significant
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Old 24th January 2020, 11:24 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
From the NPR interview transcript.
Just because... Ukraine got Javelin missiles - on the condition that they would be kept far, far from the fighting. That's not doing practically anything besides providing a propaganda tool and something that can be used to back up bluffs. The way he's bragging, one would think that they were actually being used effectively to hold off the Russian invaders. As for efforts to fight corruption in Ukraine, I'd say that Pompeo earned a hard smack for that one.

MREs are more useful to the people actually fighting.
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Old 24th January 2020, 11:58 PM   #315
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Just because... Ukraine got Javelin missiles - on the condition that they would be kept far, far from the fighting. That's not doing practically anything besides providing a propaganda tool and something that can be used to back up bluffs. The way he's bragging, one would think that they were actually being used effectively to hold off the Russian invaders. As for efforts to fight corruption in Ukraine, I'd say that Pompeo earned a hard smack for that one.

MREs are more useful to the people actually fighting.
The whole thing is straw argument anyway. Ukraine had a different and very corrupt government when Obama was POTUS.
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Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 25th January 2020, 12:01 AM   #316
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"People will hear about this!" he railed...at the...journalist.

I sentence Pompeo to write "I will not go to war with someone who buys ink by the barrel" on the blackboard 100 times.
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Old 25th January 2020, 12:32 AM   #317
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
The whole thing is straw argument anyway. Ukraine had a different and very corrupt government when Obama was POTUS.
Yup, just the kind of government Trump likes to do business with!
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Old 25th January 2020, 04:26 AM   #318
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
If so, that's something the American people can relate to, but space for gala events is actually pretty darned expensive.
Double the market rate, apparently.
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Old 25th January 2020, 05:18 AM   #319
Lennart Hyland
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Saw some snippets of the trial and the interviews with republicans. They seem to keep on arguing that the Bidens are corrupt in some way and should be looked into but for this case that doesnt matter right? Even if they are corrupt and Donald Trump wants Ukraine to look into that he shouldnt use his power to blackmail the Ukraines with the army supply deal they had?
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Old 25th January 2020, 05:25 AM   #320
Tero
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Listening to Trump declare himself innocent and claim everyone is out to get him is incredibly infectious. His bull **** is so convincing. No wonder people are fooled.
Well, his base are easily fooled. But politics is a bit complicated, and the majority of people do not want the detail. They hated Hillary by gut feel and a few lines from Trump. So in that sense the Democratic candidates are all failing so far if they cannot get a Twitter size message out. If it is Biden running, Trump will simply repeat "but Ukraine" the way he repeated "but her emails." The Democrat just needs to repeat "but Trump was impeached." That is enough to smear his character. Use Twitter or pay someone to do it for you.
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