ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez , democratic party

Closed Thread
Old 31st January 2020, 04:53 PM   #281
grunion
Philosopher
 
grunion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 8,389
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I'm using the term coloquially. I admit, I'm only discovering that I was now.

Generally, I think people use it to mean a government taxing and spending, don't they?

What term should I be using?
I think the terms “taxation” and “public utilities” serve your needs quite adequately. Socialism, in the sense I was using it, is a social movement contrary to privatization, generally tied to a political party.
__________________
“Of all the offspring of Time, Error is the most ancient, and is so old and familiar an acquaintance, that Truth, when discovered, comes upon most of us like an intruder, and meets the intruder's welcome.”
― Charles Mackay, 1841 - Extraordinary Popular Delusions And The Madness Of Crowds
grunion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 31st January 2020, 07:10 PM   #282
Random
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,111
Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I've always thought that if White Supremacists ever got their ethnically pure state, absolutely nothing would be different. They would just start fighting amongst themselves about something else.
Oh absolutely. The siren song of "WE will be better off without THEM!" requires a THEM to keep people in line. The THEM is usually the most obviously different and politically weak group (That's usually the first clue that you are dealing with a demagogue. They always punch down). Once that group is gone, the go after the next group of different people, then the next and the next. Eventually you get long and bloody wars waged by people who would be hard pressed to explain their differences to an outsider (Catholics vs Protestants, Hutus vs Tutsis, etc.).
__________________
"...Am I actually watching Big Bird argue with the Egyptian God of the Dead? Is PBS sending some kind of weird religious message here?"
Random is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 31st January 2020, 07:33 PM   #283
Baylor
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,190
Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I've always thought that if White Supremacists ever got their ethnically pure state, absolutely nothing would be different. They would just start fighting amongst themselves about something else.
Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, New Zealand. Take special note, the whiter the country is, the more skeptics exalt it.
Baylor is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 31st January 2020, 07:39 PM   #284
Baylor
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,190
Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
I imagine that if a country is less diverse there are fewer people racism can potentially harm so if it's true at all the “extra problems” are really just the problems the racists themselves are causing.
Wow. Such a hot take. It's a universal principle that diversity leads to conflict and the more racial, ethnic, religious, and linguistic fractionalization within a country, the more difficult it is to allocate resources and provide for a decent standard of living for its citizens. The failed states of Africa prove this, as do the violent racially diverse countries of south America and the stable lily white countries of Northern Europe. So does all of human history. Skeptics' take: "Racism is bad." Wow. So thought-provoking.

The absolute state of this place.

Last edited by Baylor; 31st January 2020 at 07:42 PM.
Baylor is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 31st January 2020, 08:02 PM   #285
Grizzly Bear
このマスクによっ
 
Grizzly Bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,861
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I'm using the term coloquially. I admit, I'm only discovering that I was now.

Generally, I think people use it to mean a government taxing and spending, don't they?

What term should I be using?
You should consider reading the communist manifesto in full if you want to fully understand why the term "socialism" tends to have a stigma to it. The best example that draws comparisons between the two is the class warfare - the idea that societies have always taken the form of an oppressed majority exploited under an oppressive minority, which is reminiscent of the arguments you see from figures today like AOC, Sanders, and a good chunk of the Democratic Party platform (with respect to US politics specifically) who point to the richest minority concentrating wealth from working class people.

That being said, I think one distinction is worth noting; Consolidation of power and control over the economic means of production and individualism has more relevance to these discussions than us folk being lazy and assigning all negative things to the basic labels. Policy-wise however, you'll see a lot of push back to the programs that concern single-payer health care, and wealth redistribution because they involve monopolistic control over segments of the economy. In contrast, the platform of taxing the rich tends to be premised on the idea that too much wealth is consolidated into one area, effectively monopolizing the means of production that way. (I know, boiling it down only to this is a huge over simplification but one that's not confusing)

Just offering some perspective on it. We could go into some lengthy discussions over how other countries implement their stuff to be different than the extremest of extremes. Most countries that haven't gone down into the rabbit hole of venezuela and similar are just better described as mixed economies, albeit with more of the consolidated government programs being part of their culture already. Examples like Venezuela serve the discussion better as analogies of where consolidation of the means of production go utterly haywire. Would also point out the consolidation of wealth vs consolidation of government power are ironically linked to the same idea, just with minor distinctions.... again... just as an example.
__________________

Last edited by Grizzly Bear; 31st January 2020 at 08:18 PM.
Grizzly Bear is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 1st February 2020, 03:38 AM   #286
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 26,926
Baylor, you must have accidentally missed the last two times I asked - from where did you get your data that there has recently been an increase in non-white immigration in the UK, and that this was the primary cause of the Conservative party winning the last election?
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 1st February 2020, 06:12 AM   #287
Delphic Oracle
Illuminator
 
Delphic Oracle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 4,105
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Oh, you can be sure of that.



Fox news would issue half of them green hats and half of them yellow hats to ensure it.
https://youtu.be/AcBTOU7RvbU

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Delphic Oracle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 1st February 2020, 08:05 AM   #288
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,325
Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, New Zealand. Take special note, the whiter the country is, the more skeptics exalt it.

Don't forget Finland! For some reason, they don't mention your preferred explanation. Probably because it has absolutely nothing to do with anything.
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 1st February 2020, 08:38 AM   #289
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 21,214
If the white supremacists were paying attention, they would note that their entire movement is riven with schisms and infighting that makes US politics look almost laughable by comparison.
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 1st February 2020, 11:12 AM   #290
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 46,960
Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Wow. Such a hot take. It's a universal principle that diversity leads to conflict and the more racial, ethnic, religious, and linguistic fractionalization within a country, the more difficult it is to allocate resources and provide for a decent standard of living for its citizens. The failed states of Africa prove this, as do the violent racially diverse countries of south America and the stable lily white countries of Northern Europe. So does all of human history. Skeptics' take: "Racism is bad." Wow. So thought-provoking.

The absolute state of this place.
Wow, I think somebody sure outed themselves as a white supremists
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 1st February 2020, 11:50 AM   #291
Delphic Oracle
Illuminator
 
Delphic Oracle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 4,105
Europe has been a beacon of stability compared to other parts of the world throughout history.

Really now?

I appreciate that claim happening right amidst other posts referring to wars waged over superficial religious and cultural differences.
Delphic Oracle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 1st February 2020, 11:53 AM   #292
Baylor
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,190
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Baylor, you must have accidentally missed the last two times I asked - from where did you get your data that there has recently been an increase in non-white immigration in the UK, and that this was the primary cause of the Conservative party winning the last election?
Didn't miss it at all. It's just that I could see what you're trying to do from a mile a way and I find it boring and have no interest playing your stupid game. If you're interested in immigration to the UK, you can Google relevant keywords and click on the appropriate link or PM dann and he can provide you a hyperlink to the relevant information.

Last edited by Baylor; 1st February 2020 at 11:54 AM.
Baylor is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 1st February 2020, 12:01 PM   #293
Baylor
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,190
Originally Posted by dann View Post
Don't forget Finland! For some reason, they don't mention your preferred explanation. Probably because it has absolutely nothing to do with anything.
Thanks for finally admitting you and other skeptics do think you are better off without them.
Baylor is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 1st February 2020, 12:02 PM   #294
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 46,960
Baylor, I am going to play nice and ask you a simple question:what are your solution for a country with as many different ethnic groups as ours?
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 1st February 2020, 12:03 PM   #295
Baylor
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,190
Simple: I've never purported to have a solution.
Baylor is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 1st February 2020, 12:14 PM   #296
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 23,625
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Baylor, you must have accidentally missed the last two times I asked - from where did you get your data that there has recently been an increase in non-white immigration in the UK, and that this was the primary cause of the Conservative party winning the last election?
Other racists would be my guess.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 1st February 2020, 04:10 PM   #297
Venom
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 3,879
Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Simple: I've never purported to have a solution.
Are you worried about the "non-white" population in Spokane? What if they were fully integrated and Americanized?
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 1st February 2020, 04:49 PM   #298
Baylor
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,190
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Are you worried about the "non-white" population in Spokane? What if they were fully integrated and Americanized?
You are veering off-topic and it's against MA to personalize the discussion. The point is so-called "leftist" policies are nearly impossible in the US due to the racial fractionalization within the country. White people and black people have different sensibilities and they just don't see the world the same way. This is difficult for Europeans to understand because they live in not only a racially homogeneous country but also an ethnically homogeneous one. They continue to Europomorphize other races and that's why they won't stop saying stupid, cringe-worthy comments like "Bernie would be centre-right in my country!"
Baylor is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 1st February 2020, 10:44 PM   #299
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,439
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
If the white supremacists were paying attention, they would note that their entire movement is riven with schisms and infighting that makes US politics look almost laughable by comparison.
And I would add that 90% of them would be strong candidates for sterilization under a real Nazi-type eugenics policy.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 1st February 2020, 11:03 PM   #300
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,439
Let's stipulate for the moment that observers are correct in stating that American politics are skewed right compared to much of the rest of the world, and thus that there is not real left party in the US as AOC said.

Why do you think that is?
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 01:13 AM   #301
Baylor
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,190
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Let's stipulate for the moment that observers are correct in stating that American politics are skewed right compared to much of the rest of the world, and thus that there is not real left party in the US as AOC said.

Why do you think that is?
One can argue that presidential system of government is more "right leaning" than a Parlimentary system but up til now my answer is by far the most robust (actually I appear to be the only one who answered the question.) But the premise of that claim is so wrong it's not even funny. 1.4 billion Indians live under the rule of a "far right" government that persecutes religious minorities. 1.4+ billion Chinese live in an authoritarian third-positionist state that ethnically replaces its population. Hundreds of millions of people throughout the world live under a "conservative" Islamic theocracy.

Once again, this forum proves they can only view the world through the lens of a white person living in a white country, so much that "the rest of the world" literally means, "all other white people."

Last edited by Baylor; 2nd February 2020 at 01:19 AM.
Baylor is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 05:02 AM   #302
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 26,926
Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Didn't miss it at all. It's just that I could see what you're trying to do from a mile a way and I find it boring and have no interest playing your stupid game. If you're interested in immigration to the UK, you can Google relevant keywords and click on the appropriate link or PM dann and he can provide you a hyperlink to the relevant information.
I'm not playing a game of any kind, and it seems odd that you're opposed to backing up claims with evidence on a board dedicated to scepticism. I imagine that you understand how burden of proof works.

The most relevant thing I've seen about immigration and race WRT the UK is that Brexit is likely to increase BAME immigration.

The election itself was much, much more complicated than you have made it out to be with many contributing factors. But the two biggest points relevant to your assertion are a) the gains in the popular vote weren't anywhere near as big as the gains in seats would suggest, with the Tories getting 43.6% of the votes compared to 42.4% of the vote in 2017, and b) several polls as well as testimony from canvassers, etc.all say exactly the same thing - the reason people didn't vote for Labour was because Jeremy Corbyn was incredibly unpopular. And it's not even a close-run thing. It was, by far, the biggest factor in Labour losing votes.

You're not even taking the facts and trying to twist them to suit the result you want, you're just straight-up wrong. Given that you're not British yourself I thought it likely that you were speaking from a position of ignorance but I wanted to give you the chance to demonstrate that you were at least honestly working from data which could be seen as credible (despite actually being wrong). After all, I'm British and I read about and comment on US politics so I can't assume that someone from America will be ignorant of British politics, just perhaps working from different sources which colour things due to their own cultural perspective. But the unwillingness to provide sources and the characterisation of correct burden of proof as a "game" makes me believe that there is no good faith here, and you likely don't care whether your data is accurate, just whether you can twist it to support the point you want to make. I'm also going to surmise that you likely don't actually know much about British politics at all and couldn't, for example, say what Momentum is and why it's relevant to the most recent elections without looking it up.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

Last edited by Squeegee Beckenheim; 2nd February 2020 at 05:05 AM.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 07:20 AM   #303
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,325
Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
You are veering off-topic and it's against MA to personalize the discussion. The point is so-called "leftist" policies are nearly impossible in the US due to the racial fractionalization within the country.

Leftist policies are pretty difficult in the USA due a system that lets the billionaire class buy the politics they want to see implemented. It's obviously very difficult for the working poor, be they black, white or brown, to go up against the financial power of the ruling classes, which Sanders is about to experience yet again: that the political apparatus of the 0.1 percenters can't be used against them.

Quote:
White people and black people have different sensibilities and they just don't see the world the same way.

Baylor and I have extremely "different sensibilities" and we just don't see the world the same way." It's quite obvious that race has nothing to do with it.

Quote:
This is difficult for Europeans to understand because they live in not only a racially homogeneous country but also an ethnically homogeneous one.

I think that even the majority of Americans are aware that there is more than one country over here, and that many of those countries aren't even members of the EU. (One just left!) And fortunately, they are no longer as "racially homogenous" as they used to be when I grew up. (The bikers in Copenhagen used to pick fights with migrant workers from Greece, other Balkan nations, Italy and even Austria in the late 1960s! I'd recommend that Americans of Southern European descent consider this!)

Quote:
They continue to Europomorphize other races and that's why they won't stop saying stupid, cringe-worthy comments like "Bernie would be centre-right in my country!"

Bernie Sanders is a Social Democrat, and he would be a Social Democrat in Denmark and in most other European countries as well. I'm not at all surprised that the Democrats can't tolerate Social Democrat ideas in their ranks.
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 07:26 AM   #304
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,325
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
You're not even taking the facts and trying to twist them to suit the result you want, you're just straight-up wrong.

The new Chinese strain of Corona virus is nothing to fear in comparison to the strain of fact-resistant humans.
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 07:51 AM   #305
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 26,926
Originally Posted by dann View Post
The new Chinese strain of Corona virus is nothing to fear in comparison to the strain of fact-resistant humans.
Since you are the closest thing that Baylor came to when asked for a citation for his data, can you confirm or deny that you have data which suggests that the Tories won the UK election because of a rise in BAME immigration?
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 08:08 AM   #306
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,325
I think that he's just offended by my tendency to post facts to back up my claims, which is something that he always complains about. I know nothing about the recent British election.
He should probably just lean back and smell the Bérniés ...
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 08:34 AM   #307
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 26,926
Originally Posted by dann View Post
I think that he's just offended by my tendency to post facts to back up my claims, which is something that he always complains about. I know nothing about the recent British election.
Thanks.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 08:46 AM   #308
grunion
Philosopher
 
grunion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 8,389
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Let's stipulate for the moment that observers are correct in stating that American politics are skewed right compared to much of the rest of the world, and thus that there is not real left party in the US as AOC said.

Why do you think that is?
Primarily because the nation was founded on the sins of slavery and genocide with a heaping spoonful of insularity from the rest of the industrialized world and the warped view of Christianity, fear of brown-skinned people and false sense of entitlement spawned from that poisonous recipe.
__________________
“Of all the offspring of Time, Error is the most ancient, and is so old and familiar an acquaintance, that Truth, when discovered, comes upon most of us like an intruder, and meets the intruder's welcome.”
― Charles Mackay, 1841 - Extraordinary Popular Delusions And The Madness Of Crowds
grunion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 12:58 PM   #309
Baylor
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,190
Originally Posted by dann View Post
Leftist policies are pretty difficult in the USA due a system that lets the billionaire class buy the politics they want to see implemented. It's obviously very difficult for the working poor, be they black, white or brown, to go up against the financial power of the ruling classes, which Sanders is about to experience yet again: that the political apparatus of the 0.1 percenters can't be used against them.
Your understanding of US politics is exceedingly poor. US politics is more than "meh billionaires" topped with the usual European mantra "race don't matter." You'd have a better understanding of US politics if you stopped skimming articles of your preferred media sites. It's the "billionaire class" that funds "leftist" policies and politicians (so much so they help to elect local District Attorneys!) And I can assure you race does matter. Poor black people and poor white people have different interests and vastly different voting patterns. "The billionaire class" and "leftist" politicians know this that's why they fund and implement programs to move as many blacks and other non-whites to white districts in order to change the electoral outcome "to the left."

Best to quit now before you demonstrate your ignorance further because you're not going to be able to Google your way out of this.

Originally Posted by dann View Post
I'm not at all surprised that the Democrats can't tolerate Social Democrat ideas in their ranks.
This isn't even true and you're not knowledgable enough to be surprised one way or the other.

Last edited by Baylor; 2nd February 2020 at 01:40 PM.
Baylor is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 12:59 PM   #310
Baylor
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,190
Originally Posted by grunion View Post
Primarily because the nation was founded on the sins of slavery and genocide with a heaping spoonful of insularity from the rest of the industrialized world and the warped view of Christianity, fear of brown-skinned people and false sense of entitlement spawned from that poisonous recipe.
Such a hot take.

The absolute state of this forum.
Baylor is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 02:56 PM   #311
Venom
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 3,879
Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Such a hot take.

The absolute state of this forum.
grunion's not far from the mark.

Don't expect people to fall in line with your "race realism" because that broad difference in values you say you see between American whites and blacks has roots in the early days. It'd be tough to argue it's an inherent set of values.
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 03:12 PM   #312
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 88,324
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Baylor, I am going to play nice and ask you a simple question:what are your solution for a country with as many different ethnic groups as ours?
Sorry, Baylor, you seem to have missed this.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 03:19 PM   #313
ChristianProgressive
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,319
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Let's stipulate for the moment that observers are correct in stating that American politics are skewed right compared to much of the rest of the world, and thus that there is not real left party in the US as AOC said.

Why do you think that is?
The mass migration of the Scots-Irish in the 18th and 19th centuries. Borderer culture has proven to be particularly intractable over the centuries, and the US has had no better luck in extirpating it than the British did before us.
__________________
"As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man." - Matthew 24:37

"And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." - Luke 21:28
ChristianProgressive is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 03:22 PM   #314
ChristianProgressive
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,319
Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Such a hot take.

The absolute state of this forum.
His "hot take" is mostly correct.
__________________
"As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man." - Matthew 24:37

"And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." - Luke 21:28
ChristianProgressive is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 03:35 PM   #315
Baylor
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,190
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Sorry, Baylor, you seem to have missed this.
Please refer to post 295
Baylor is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 03:37 PM   #316
Baylor
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,190
Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
His "hot take" is mostly correct.
I'm not surprised you believe this.
Baylor is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 03:46 PM   #317
Baylor
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,190
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
grunion's not far from the mark.

Don't expect people to fall in line with your "race realism" because that broad difference in values you say you see between American whites and blacks has roots in the early days. It'd be tough to argue it's an inherent set of values.
I'd argue it's a mixture of lots of different things but it really doesn't matter. Different races have different values and voting patterns. "Leftist" former politician Hilary Clinton discussed this very thing in her e-mails in order to use it to her advantage. So "leftist" Hilary Clinton is just as much as a "race realist" as anyone. Different races have do have different sets of values and this is a point you also seemed to have ceded.
Baylor is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 03:47 PM   #318
Cabbage
Master Poster
 
Cabbage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,152
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Sorry, Baylor, you seem to have missed this.

He actually did "address" this: He said he doesn't have a solution. Apparently he just likes to complain about it.
Cabbage is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 03:51 PM   #319
Cabbage
Master Poster
 
Cabbage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,152
Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
[hilite]It's the "billionaire class" that funds "leftist" policies and politicians

....which totally ignores the billionaires that fund conservative policies and politicians, because that doesn't fit your desired narrative.
Cabbage is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 2nd February 2020, 04:41 PM   #320
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 13,449
Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Such a hot take.

The absolute state of this forum.
If you don't like it here, the "Log Out" button is up and to your right, directly above your username!
__________________
"You can't promote principled anti-corruption action without pissing-off corrupt people!" - George Kent on Day one of the Trump Impeachment Hearings
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list.
This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Closed Thread

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:14 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.