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Old 5th February 2020, 05:34 AM   #1
Meadmaker
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State of the Union - Pelosi Rips up Speech

Did anyone catch the State of the Union speech? I didn't, and didn't really see any need to find out what was said.

However, the video caught my eye. There was the Speaker of the House, on live television, ripping up a speech that had just been given by the President of the United States.

My first thought was that I was appalled. Have we sunk that low? Is this what we've become?

My second thought was, "That was totally awesome!" Trump has gotten away with so much of this kind of junk, including refusing to shake hands with the Speaker of the House at the beginning of the speech, that, unfortunately, the Democrats kind of are forced to get down in the gutter with him. He led us there, and the American people rewarded him. Ok, people. This is what you wanted. Reap what you sowed.

As for the speech itself, I didn't listen to it, and I don't intend to, but by the headlines it sounds like he decided to give a campaign speech. In some sense, all State of the Union speeches are campaign speeches. The President always wants to say either that he has made things so much better, or he will make things so much better, or that he could make things so much better if only the people from the other party who control Congress would pass his agenda. That's normal. However, there's a form to it. There are styles, and conventions about it. Of course you push an agenda, that's what's supposed to happen, but you do it in a dignified way.

Not Trump.

So, good on Nancy for using her position on national TV to make a statement, and a dramatic one. I don't know if it will "work" politically. i.e. will it gain votes for Democrats or lose them, but "When they go low, we go high." didn't work out so well. Take the gloves off, Democrats.


As for the speech itself, the only thing I know about it is that Trump gave Rush Limbaugh the Medal of Freedom, demonstrating once more that he views the customs of the United States as just another tool he can use for self-aggrandizement and politicizing the government for his own purposes. If the truth be told, I actually admire Rush. In the early days of his program, I actually enjoyed it and wished more liberals would listen. There is no doubt that he changed America and is extremely accomplished. However, that isn't really Medal of Freedom kind of stuff. Daily doses of attacking political enemies in vitriolic but frequently inaccurate rants isn't what I think of as the highest values our country upholds. Just inviting him as an honored guest following his cancer diagnosis would have been kind of cool, but of course Trump has to go over the top on everything, and ends up devaluing the award itself.

So, a night of politics. The thin veneer of dignity that accompanies the State of the Union address has been stripped away as Trump continues to run roughshod over American traditions. We certainly live in interesting times.
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Old 5th February 2020, 05:38 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Did anyone catch the State of the Union speech? I didn't, and didn't really see any need to find out what was said.

However, the video caught my eye. There was the Speaker of the House, on live television, ripping up a speech that had just been given by the President of the United States.

My first thought was that I was appalled. Have we sunk that low? Is this what we've become?

My second thought was, "That was totally awesome!" Trump has gotten away with so much of this kind of junk, including refusing to shake hands with the Speaker of the House at the beginning of the speech, that, unfortunately, the Democrats kind of are forced to get down in the gutter with him. He led us there, and the American people rewarded him. Ok, people. This is what you wanted. Reap what you sowed.

As for the speech itself, I didn't listen to it, and I don't intend to, but by the headlines it sounds like he decided to give a campaign speech. In some sense, all State of the Union speeches are campaign speeches. The President always wants to say either that he has made things so much better, or he will make things so much better, or that he could make things so much better if only the people from the other party who control Congress would pass his agenda. That's normal. However, there's a form to it. There are styles, and conventions about it. Of course you push an agenda, that's what's supposed to happen, but you do it in a dignified way.

Not Trump.

So, good on Nancy for using her position on national TV to make a statement, and a dramatic one. I don't know if it will "work" politically. i.e. will it gain votes for Democrats or lose them, but "When they go low, we go high." didn't work out so well. Take the gloves off, Democrats.


As for the speech itself, the only thing I know about it is that Trump gave Rush Limbaugh the Medal of Freedom, demonstrating once more that he views the customs of the United States as just another tool he can use for self-aggrandizement and politicizing the government for his own purposes. If the truth be told, I actually admire Rush. In the early days of his program, I actually enjoyed it and wished more liberals would listen. There is no doubt that he changed America and is extremely accomplished. However, that isn't really Medal of Freedom kind of stuff. Daily doses of attacking political enemies in vitriolic but frequently inaccurate rants isn't what I think of as the highest values our country upholds. Just inviting him as an honored guest following his cancer diagnosis would have been kind of cool, but of course Trump has to go over the top on everything, and ends up devaluing the award itself.

So, a night of politics. The thin veneer of dignity that accompanies the State of the Union address has been stripped away as Trump continues to run roughshod over American traditions. We certainly live in interesting times.
Before all the Partisan nonsense begins, I have to agree. There's still decorum and respect for the offices in question, even if you don't like the people in the role at the time. When you sink so low to become so petty, it's a sad development. Yes, the speech was painful but Pelosi was really no better.
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Old 5th February 2020, 05:40 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Did anyone catch the State of the Union speech? I didn't, and didn't really see any need to find out what was said.

However, the video caught my eye. There was the Speaker of the House, on live television, ripping up a speech that had just been given by the President of the United States.

My first thought was that I was appalled. Have we sunk that low? Is this what we've become?

.
How is this low and not just something to be indifferent about? Why is ripping up a piece of paper appaling?

How does it violate decorum?
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Old 5th February 2020, 05:43 AM   #4
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Here's as good a place as any to ask, what was it that the great white chorus was chanting at Trump about 2/3's of the way through the speech? It looked like they were all ether giving the peace sign or simply holding up two fingers, but even after a few reviews, I still couldn't make out what they were saying.
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Old 5th February 2020, 05:52 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
How is this low and not just something to be indifferent about? Why is ripping up a piece of paper appaling?

How does it violate decorum?
Because it does.... your leading questions are obvious.
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:04 AM   #6
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Wow, she unleashed the Sinead O’Connor?
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:04 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Before all the Partisan nonsense begins, I have to agree. There's still decorum and respect for the offices in question, even if you don't like the people in the role at the time. When you sink so low to become so petty, it's a sad development. Yes, the speech was painful but Pelosi was really no better.
Printed transcripts of speeches are somehow so significant that simply tearing one up is a sign of lowering standards?
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:05 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Here's as good a place as any to ask, what was it that the great white chorus was chanting at Trump about 2/3's of the way through the speech? It looked like they were all ether giving the peace sign or simply holding up two fingers, but even after a few reviews, I still couldn't make out what they were saying.
Keep in mind that many of those Republicans chanting for trump had just made statements about "Trump acted poorly" in the Ukraine scandal.

I guess they weren't really that concerned after all.

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Old 5th February 2020, 06:06 AM   #9
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It was petty, but perhaps strategic, as now she's the topic of conversation, not Trump. He must really hate that.
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:06 AM   #10
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One question I have is what has that "reunion" of a serving military bloke and his family got to do with a state of the nation speech?
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:14 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Here's as good a place as any to ask, what was it that the great white chorus was chanting at Trump about 2/3's of the way through the speech?...
I didn't watch but according to news reports they were chanting, "Four more years."
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:23 AM   #12
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Oh thank God. Pelosi threw shade at him. For second there I thought we were losing.
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:26 AM   #13
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Trump also refused to shake Pelosi's hand after she handed him the address, as is customary. Click to enlarge. (Nice hairdo, Donnie.)
.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Nope.jpg (71.5 KB, 60 views)
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:26 AM   #14
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Four more years? Donnie must be disappointed. He wants eight more. Minimum.
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:27 AM   #15
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Mrs Carlitos said this morning “ I think that Pelosi and Trump have a secret affair, one of those love / hate things.”
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:31 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Printed transcripts of speeches are somehow so significant that simply tearing one up is a sign of lowering standards?
It's a bit of petty theatrics. Not sure it signals a lowering of standards, though.
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:33 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Printed transcripts of speeches are somehow so significant that simply tearing one up is a sign of lowering standards?
When the two sides aren't the same but false equivalence is your schtick you have to inflate the importance the little things
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:33 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Trump also refused to shake Pelosi's hand after she handed him the address, as is customary. Click to enlarge. (Nice hairdo, Donnie.)
.
She did just try to remove him from office. I think skipping the handshake this time around is perfectly reasonable. I'm kind of surprised she offered it. Seems like she was full of petty theatrics, yesterday.
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:35 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
One question I have is what has that "reunion" of a serving military bloke and his family got to do with a state of the nation speech?
Nothing. The whole occasion is theatrical these days.
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:36 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
When the two sides aren't the same but false equivalence is your schtick you have to inflate the importance the little things
How does that explain the OP?
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:37 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Oh thank God. Pelosi threw shade at him. For second there I thought we were losing.
Tweeting "Yas Queen!" as my eyes go dark and death overtakes me.



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Old 5th February 2020, 06:38 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's a bit of petty theatrics. Not sure it signals a lowering of standards, though.

The actual question is 'did it work?'

We can observe the petty pointlessness/grand important gesture* and make our own judgements, but as with all things in this arena, did it make people more or less likely to vote for the show-mam/show-woman in question is the only important bit.




*Delete as applicable
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:38 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Printed transcripts of speeches are somehow so significant that simply tearing one up is a sign of lowering standards?
One should expect some professionalism in a Nationally Broadcasted speech from Both Sides. It's petty and Unprofessional on her part, yes. And yes as a country we know she's not a Trumper, but she can be professional nonethelss.
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:39 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
It was petty, but perhaps strategic, as now she's the topic of conversation, not Trump. He must really hate that.
Strategically petty, and divisive in an already crappy National Dialogue.
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:41 AM   #25
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Quote:
signing on to the reichstag enabling act of 1933 but then also ripping it into pieces to show my defiance
https://twitter.com/ShaneSheehy/stat...04974964002818
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:41 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
One should expect some professionalism in a Nationally Broadcasted speech from Both Sides. It's petty and Unprofessional on her part, yes. And yes as a country we know she's not a Trumper, but she can be professional nonethelss.

The trouble is, if you let your opponent get away with the petty stuff that's designed to denigrate and mock and when the accuracy of the reporting is, shall we say, suspect, then either you respond in kind or you risk looking like a doormat.
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:42 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Keep in mind that many of those Republicans chanting for trump had just made statements about "Trump acted poorly" in the Ukraine scandal.

I guess they weren't really that concerned after all.

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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
I didn't watch but according to news reports they were chanting, "Four more years."
I guess I should have been clearer when I said the "white chorus" , I was referring to the Democratic ladies of the house, who were all dressed in white, at one point they all stood and chanted something for a moment, but I couldn't understand what they're saying.
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:42 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
The actual question is 'did it work?'

We can observe the petty pointlessness/grand important gesture* and make our own judgements, but as with all things in this arena, did it make people more or less likely to vote for the show-mam/show-woman in question is the only important bit.




*Delete as applicable
Good point. And some food for thought. Thanks!
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:42 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
When the two sides aren't the same but false equivalence is your schtick you have to inflate the importance the little things
Or... it was petty theatrics from a petty member of the Left, there's no false equivalence. In the Obama years, they were petty and even bigoted even, now in the Trump years it's the left doing it. Both sides do it, it's basically cyclical and neither is better than the other, deal with it.
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:43 AM   #30
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I only saw a clip of it from one angle so, grain of salt, but the handshake thing struck me as much more that Trump just though Pelosi was reaching out for her copy of the speech. It struck me as far more just awkward then intentional.

I mean I once totally brain farted and fist bumped a two star Admiral at an awards ceremony when he was actually just trying to hand me something so... yeah.
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:44 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Daily doses of attacking political enemies in vitriolic but frequently inaccurate rants isn't what I think of as the highest values our country upholds.

It wasn't then. Now it's "being Presidential".
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:45 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Here's as good a place as any to ask, what was it that the great white chorus was chanting at Trump about 2/3's of the way through the speech? It looked like they were all ether giving the peace sign or simply holding up two fingers, but even after a few reviews, I still couldn't make out what they were saying.
Three fingers for 'H.R. 3 'apparently

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Old 5th February 2020, 06:46 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
One question I have is what has that "reunion" of a serving military bloke and his family got to do with a state of the nation speech?
It was a laughably mendacious speech at that, as she and many others noted. The sections I accidentally listened to were basically the same crap he says at his white pride rallies. If you show up, refuse to shake the Speaker’s hand, and spew a bunch of outright lies and half-truths, you’ve shown a deep disrespect for your own office. Why should Dolt 45 be shown respect in return?
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:46 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Accepting the president's constitutionally mandated status report is the same as signing the Enabling Act? TDS, ladies and gentlemen.
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:48 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Accepting the president's constitutionally mandated status report is the same as signing the Enabling Act? TDS, ladies and gentlemen.
These idiotic moments of Pelosi throwing shade at Trump might be more meaningful if she was actually doing anything substantial with her power to resist him.

But yeah, keep clappin' back Pelosi, but don't forget to sign everything Trump asks for too. He's a madman and a tyrant, but don't be late getting him all that military spending he's asking for.
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:50 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
It was a laughably mendacious speech at that, as she and many others noted. The sections I accidentally listened to were basically the same crap he says at his white pride rallies. If you show up, refuse to shake the Speaker’s hand, and spew a bunch of outright lies and half-truths, you’ve shown a deep disrespect for your own office. Why should Dolt 45 be shown respect in return?
It's maybe about respect for the "Office", not the person, and some decorum, not petty partisan hypocrisy sorta like "It's okay when WE do it...."

It's not.
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:53 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
Three fingers for 'H.R. 3 'apparently

https://www.sfgate.com/politics/arti...p-15030773.php
From the link:
Quote:
After Trump called on lawmakers to deliver him a piece of legislation to dramatically lower drug prices in order for him to sign it, many Democratic lawmakers stood, held up three fingers and chanted "H.R.3."...House Resolution 3, named the Elijah E. Cummings Lower Drug Costs Now Act in the late congressman's honor, a bill that would allow the government to negotiate lower prescription drug prices for those covered under Medicare...
The bill passed through the Democratic-controlled House, 230-192, but was declared "dead on arrival" in the Republican-controlled Senate. The White House indicated the president would have vetoed the bill anyway, the Washington Post reported in December.

Apparently when Trump "called on lawmakers to deliver...legislation to dramatically lower drug prices," he was lying. Also, water is wet.
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:54 AM   #38
theprestige
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
These idiotic moments of Pelosi throwing shade at Trump might be more meaningful if she was actually doing anything substantial with her power to resist him.

But yeah, keep clappin' back Pelosi, but don't forget to sign everything Trump asks for too. He's a madman and a tyrant, but don't be late getting him all that military spending he's asking for.
Trump's been pretty circumspect with his military authority, though.
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Old 5th February 2020, 07:00 AM   #39
3point14
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Good point. And some food for thought. Thanks!
Trouble is, I don't have a blind clue about the answer.
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Old 5th February 2020, 07:03 AM   #40
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Because it does....
And claims like this incur a burden of proof
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