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Old 6th February 2020, 02:09 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Could they? This has been something I've been more than curious about. Since the invention of things like email, tv, etc. I just assumed they held on to digital data as well. So even if she ripped up, pooped on and use the damn thing to wipe, the archives still have a digital copy. It's on every television channel for basic TV. What else is needed?!
As is my understanding (layman's level, not a lawyer, etc, etc, etc) there is still in some cases (I don't know if SOTU speeches fall into this category) there still exists a physical "Intended for archival" copy of some government documents that are protected under 18 USC 2017, even if other physical or digital copies exist.

Again I think
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Old 6th February 2020, 02:11 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
As is my understanding (layman's level, not a lawyer, etc, etc, etc) there is still in some cases (I don't know if SOTU speeches fall into this category) there still exists a physical "Intended for archival" copy of some government documents that are protected under 18 USC 2017, even if other physical or digital copies exist.

Again I think
I guess that makes sense. It would seem a bit more ironic for Trump considering he can only read 2 lines at a time before going off script and stroking his...ego.
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Old 6th February 2020, 02:13 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
As is my understanding (layman's level, not a lawyer, etc, etc, etc) there is still in some cases (I don't know if SOTU speeches fall into this category) there still exists a physical "Intended for archival" copy of some government documents that are protected under 18 USC 2017, even if other physical or digital copies exist.

Again I think
Oh no this is exactly why the white house has people taping together official documents Trump tears up every day, just add it to their que.
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Old 6th February 2020, 02:14 PM   #284
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Haha Pelosi:

"I shredded the state of his mind address".

Zing!
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Old 6th February 2020, 02:17 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Illegitimate in your opinion.... he still got elected. Not an endorsement just really inconvenient fact. Opinions on electoral college notwithstanding, he still... got.. elected.
Nope, when you get illegal help from a foreign government, the legitimacy of your Presidency is rightfully suspect.
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Old 6th February 2020, 02:17 PM   #286
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Two days later and already the only thing anyone remembers about Trump's SOTU is that Rush Limbaugh got a medal and Nancy Pelosi tore a couple of sheets of paper.
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Old 6th February 2020, 02:17 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
So you guys heard the new nonsense?

Rep. Matt Gaetz (Republican Representative for Florida's 1st District) has filed an ethics complaint and publically called for an investigation into Pelosi tearing up Trump's speech.

Why? Because it violates 18 USC 2017, preventing the destruction of government records.
Quite the hypocrite, considering he supports Trump, a man who regularly destroys government documents even though they are required to be archived by the Presidential Records act.

The government actually employees people to tape together paper that Trump has ripped up in order to conform to the act.

From: https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...-system-635164
Under the Presidential Records Act, the White House must preserve all memos, letters, emails and papers that the president touches...But White House aides realized early on that they were unable to stop Trump from ripping up paper after he was done with it and throwing it in the trash or on the floor...(a) department was dedicated to the task of taping paper back together in the opening months of the Trump administration.

By the way, you know how Trump brags about giving away his presidential salary? Well, each of those staffers is probably earning over $60,000/year. If you add up the cost of all those salaries who's job it is to 'fix' Trump's mistake, I suspect it would be more than his salary.
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Old 6th February 2020, 02:18 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Two days later and already the only thing anyone remembers about Trump's SOTU is that Rush Limbaugh got a medal and Nancy Pelosi tore a couple of sheets of paper.
Unlike a normal SOTU speech nobody even watches it so nobody remembers it at all.
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Old 6th February 2020, 02:22 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Unlike a normal SOTU speech nobody even watches it so nobody remembers it at all.
We're his ratings down something like 20%+ this year?
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Old 6th February 2020, 02:39 PM   #290
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So, Pompeo, fresh off his 'fight' with a reporter over her ability to locate Ukraine, has also gotten involved over the issue with Pelosi tearing up a copy of the SotU.

Pompeo had tweeted a meme based on the Simpsons characters, showing Lisa crying over some torn-up paper. Seems like some of the writers/voice actors don't want Pompeo referring to the Simpson again.

From: https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...-not-ever-ever
A former writer for “The Simpsons” on Wednesday ripped Secretary of State Mike Pompeo for using a snapshot from the show to knock Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), saying “please do not ever ever ever use Simpsons material in your twitter or watch the show or refer to it in any way.” Bill Oakley, along with his writing partner Josh Weinstein, was the executive producer and showrunner during the seventh and eighth seasons...He took to Twitter after President Trump’s State of the Union to make the request of Pompeo

From: https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...eo-tweet-f-you
Yeardley Smith, the actress who voices the iconic character Lisa Simpson, blasted Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Wednesday for “co-opting” the cartoon to troll Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.). Smith took to Twitter after President Trump’s State of the Union to slam the Trump official for tweeting an image of Lisa Simpson tearfully ripping up a sheet of paper — an apparent dig at Pelosi after she tore a copy of the president's speech at the end of the address Tuesday night. “I might just add f--- you @mikepompeo for co-opting my character to troll @SpeakerPelosi. Be a leader and fight you own fight! Oh, wait I forgot, you’re a follower,” Smith wrote.
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Old 6th February 2020, 02:55 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
So, Pompeo, fresh off his 'fight' with a reporter over her ability to locate Ukraine, has also gotten involved over the issue with Pelosi tearing up a copy of the SotU.

Pompeo had tweeted a meme based on the Simpsons characters, showing Lisa crying over some torn-up paper. Seems like some of the writers/voice actors don't want Pompeo referring to the Simpson again.

From: https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...-not-ever-ever
A former writer for “The Simpsons” on Wednesday ripped Secretary of State Mike Pompeo for using a snapshot from the show to knock Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), saying “please do not ever ever ever use Simpsons material in your twitter or watch the show or refer to it in any way.” Bill Oakley, along with his writing partner Josh Weinstein, was the executive producer and showrunner during the seventh and eighth seasons...He took to Twitter after President Trump’s State of the Union to make the request of Pompeo

From: https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...eo-tweet-f-you
Yeardley Smith, the actress who voices the iconic character Lisa Simpson, blasted Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Wednesday for “co-opting” the cartoon to troll Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.). Smith took to Twitter after President Trump’s State of the Union to slam the Trump official for tweeting an image of Lisa Simpson tearfully ripping up a sheet of paper — an apparent dig at Pelosi after she tore a copy of the president's speech at the end of the address Tuesday night. “I might just add f--- you @mikepompeo for co-opting my character to troll @SpeakerPelosi. Be a leader and fight you own fight! Oh, wait I forgot, you’re a follower,” Smith wrote.
Even more ironic, the scene that he used was the scene where Lisa was tearing up her speech she was going to give in Washington. She was crying because she overheard a politician taking a bribe that would enable them to destroy a forest outside of Springfield. In the end she teamed up with a Senator to take the corrupt politician down to restore her faith in America.
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Old 6th February 2020, 03:35 PM   #292
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Trump is a cock head and has earned the contempt Pelosi has delivered. Look at him there. What a tiny little man out of his depth and puffed up full of bluster. And there she is with a pin deflating him.

And the ripping. What class and style she has.



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Old 6th February 2020, 03:43 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
As is my understanding (layman's level, not a lawyer, etc, etc, etc) there is still in some cases (I don't know if SOTU speeches fall into this category) there still exists a physical "Intended for archival" copy of some government documents that are protected under 18 USC 2017, even if other physical or digital copies exist.

Again I think

The Presidential Records Act:
Quote:
The Presidential Records Act (PRA) of 1978, 44 U.S.C. ß2201-2209, governs the official records of Presidents and Vice Presidents that were created or received after January 20, 1981 (i.e., beginning with the Reagan Administration). The PRA changed the legal ownership of the official records of the President from private to public, and established a new statutory structure under which Presidents, and subsequently NARA, must manage the records of their Administrations. The PRA was amended in 2014, which established several new provisions.
https://www.archives.gov/presidentia.../1978-act.html

Here's a question: Once the President transmits a document to someone else, is that person -- in this case, Pelosi -- bound by the law? It's hard to believe that every recipient of a presidential letter or email or press release would be legally bound to deliver it to the National Archives.

Last edited by Bob001; 6th February 2020 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 6th February 2020, 04:38 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The Presidential Records Act:

https://www.archives.gov/presidentia.../1978-act.html

Here's a question: Once the President transmits a document to someone else, is that person -- in this case, Pelosi -- bound by the law? It's hard to believe that every recipient of a presidential letter or email or press release would be legally bound to deliver it to the National Archives.
From looking over the law, and also based in the video I linked to earlier, then no they (the recipient) wouldn't have too because what they get would be a copy of the original, but it would be required for the President or his staff to preserve the original so that that one can archived.

Quote:
2) The term "Presidential records"...
(B) does not include any documentary materials that are...
(iv) extra copies of documents produced only for convenience of reference
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Old 6th February 2020, 04:47 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
https://media.giphy.com/media/7A4iGS...fGjZ/giphy.gif

Trump is a cock head and has earned the contempt Pelosi has delivered. Look at him there. What a tiny little man out of his depth and puffed up full of bluster. And there she is with a pin deflating him.

And the ripping. What class and style she has.
https://media.giphy.com/media/JUw63Y...wXcz/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/JO9iWi...EHSt/giphy.gif
A regular von staffenberg.
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Old 6th February 2020, 04:49 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
...

By the way, you know how Trump brags about giving away his presidential salary? Well, each of those staffers is probably earning over $60,000/year. If you add up the cost of all those salaries who's job it is to 'fix' Trump's mistake, I suspect it would be more than his salary.
Why go that far. Trump's frequent trips to Mar-a-lago cost much more than what saving on his salary does.
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Old 6th February 2020, 04:51 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
So, Pompeo, fresh off his 'fight' with a reporter over her ability to locate Ukraine, has also gotten involved over the issue with Pelosi tearing up a copy of the SotU.

Pompeo had tweeted a meme based on the Simpsons characters, showing Lisa crying over some torn-up paper. Seems like some of the writers/voice actors don't want Pompeo referring to the Simpson again....
Wouldn't that represent Trumpers crying over the torn paper?
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Old 6th February 2020, 04:57 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
From looking over the law, and also based in the video I linked to earlier, then no they (the recipient) wouldn't have too because what they get would be a copy of the original, but it would be required for the President or his staff to preserve the original so that that one can archived.
Guess Matt Gaetz, JD, didn't bother to read the law. He should be disciplined for a frivolous lawsuit.
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Old 6th February 2020, 05:05 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Could they? This has been something I've been more than curious about. Since the invention of things like email, tv, etc. I just assumed they held on to digital data as well. So even if she ripped up, pooped on and use the damn thing to wipe, the archives still have a digital copy. It's on every television channel for basic TV. What else is needed?!
Every email, Facebook post, tweet, etc. is supposed to be kept in archives, although the form they're stored in is unspecified. In other words, a digital copy is enough to meet all requirements, and maintaining every copy of it is absurd. In some cases, copies are destroyed in highly specific methods, often by burning or melting them - but a SOTU address should never require such methods, as they're delivered publicly.

In other words, Gaetz is still a clumsy ham on the stage, because I'm sure he knows this.
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Old 6th February 2020, 05:18 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
https://media.giphy.com/media/7A4iGS...fGjZ/giphy.gif

Trump is a cock head and has earned the contempt Pelosi has delivered. Look at him there. What a tiny little man out of his depth and puffed up full of bluster. And there she is with a pin deflating him.

And the ripping. What class and style she has.
https://media.giphy.com/media/JUw63Y...wXcz/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/JO9iWi...EHSt/giphy.gif
It's interesting that the director (who ever it was) decided to go to a different camera instead of staying on trump (with Pelosi shredding in the background).
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Old 6th February 2020, 06:20 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Guess Matt Gaetz, JD, didn't bother to read the law. He should be disciplined for a frivolous lawsuit.
He got what he wanted, Trump's uneducated base, who don't know the laws, and won't go and read them, or watch an actual lawyer discuss the matter, now believe that Pelosi committed a Felony, and thus she is just another corrupt law breaking Democrat just like Biden and Clinton.

Thus they can sooth their concerns over supporting a law breaking corrupt President because he is just exactly the same as all the other corrupt politicians in DC.
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Old 6th February 2020, 07:07 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
It's interesting that the director (who ever it was) decided to go to a different camera instead of staying on trump (with Pelosi shredding in the background).
That’s why they are on the big money.
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Old 6th February 2020, 07:24 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Could they? This has been something I've been more than curious about. Since the invention of things like email, tv, etc. I just assumed they held on to digital data as well. So even if she ripped up, pooped on and use the damn thing to wipe, the archives still have a digital copy. It's on every television channel for basic TV. What else is needed?!

Now THERE is a business opportunity for someone - rolls of toilet paper imprinted with Dump's SOTU Address
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Old 6th February 2020, 07:44 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Now THERE is a business opportunity for someone - rolls of toilet paper imprinted with Dump's SOTU Address
I already have a roll of TP with Trump's face on it. I save it for those 'special' occasions that result from eating bad food.
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Old 7th February 2020, 12:01 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Bull Puckey, rise above by not being trolled by his and said ilk. By never having an answer other than slighting the right proves the left has no alternative answers. It's another cawing magpie in the wind. Just as useless, just as in the way of any real progress. Trump sucks. So do they.
They go low you go high gets you a filthy Russian whore in the White House. She had to do something right away after all the lies the stupid bitch in chief spewed. Besides, it's just Trump he's not good enough to be treated with basic human dignity or decency.
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Old 7th February 2020, 12:06 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
https://media.giphy.com/media/7A4iGS...fGjZ/giphy.gif

Trump is a cock head and has earned the contempt Pelosi has delivered. Look at him there. What a tiny little man out of his depth and puffed up full of bluster. And there she is with a pin deflating him.

And the ripping. What class and style she has.
https://media.giphy.com/media/JUw63Y...wXcz/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/JO9iWi...EHSt/giphy.gif
It would have been better if the stupid bitch had looked at Pelosi so she could look him in the eye while she tore up the speech. Much more dramatic.
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Old 7th February 2020, 12:17 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
It would have been better if the stupid bitch had looked at Pelosi so she could look him in the eye while she tore up the speech. Much more dramatic.
Don't worry, he watches the scene on repeat every time his heart rate drops below 140.
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Old 7th February 2020, 02:29 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Could they? This has been something I've been more than curious about. Since the invention of things like email, tv, etc. I just assumed they held on to digital data as well. So even if she ripped up, pooped on and use the damn thing to wipe, the archives still have a digital copy. It's on every television channel for basic TV. What else is needed?!
Certainly in the UK we have some official documents that have to be kept as hard copies, so. much so that when it was decided to merely use paper it caused an "outrage"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/magazine-35569281
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Old 7th February 2020, 02:42 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
A cow pie smoothie w/ Ostrich eggs and quick dry cement!
Shell on?
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Old 7th February 2020, 07:58 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Now THERE is a business opportunity for someone - rolls of toilet paper imprinted with Dump's SOTU Address
Dammit, my million dollar idea! *runs off to the copyright website*
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Old 7th February 2020, 08:02 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Now THERE is a business opportunity for someone - rolls of toilet paper imprinted with Dump's SOTU Address
//Complete hijack//

One of the weirdest items in my book collection is "Drop" a horror novella from Japanese horror writer Koji Suzuki (best known for writing "Ringu" ("The Ring") which launched popular horror franchises in both Japan and the US).... that's printed on a roll of toilet paper.

No really.
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Old 7th February 2020, 08:36 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
It would have been better if the stupid bitch had looked at Pelosi so she could look him in the eye while she tore up the speech. Much more dramatic.

It's well documented that he can't handle confrontation in real life. That's why he has his minions fire his other minions, or announces their firing through Twitter.
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Old 8th February 2020, 04:21 PM   #313
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I am really offended that Trump has parroted the "lawbreaking" charge associated with tearing the speech.


What the hell is wrong with this country that such a statement could be taken seriously?



Was it a tacky, classless, thing to do? I think so, but we live in tacky, classless, times. Chanting "four more years" during the middle of the State of the Union address is tacky and classless. Using SOTU as so blatantly a campaign speech is tacky and classless. Trump has lowered the standards of the entire country to a point where the Speaker of the House ripping up the President's speech while standing a few feet away from the President is just an example of fighting back. The fact that the American people rewarded someone who engaged in the kind of name-calling and utterly classless behavior as he did in 2016, and has continued as President, is a sign of our times.

However, that's just style. It's window dressing. We would like dignified behavior instead of childish antics, but when all is said and done, it doesn't matter.

On the other hand, when you start trying to say that things are lawbreaking, when they clearly are not, you get into avoidance of reality. It's just a really bad sign that someone could make such a claim and not be laughed off the airwaves by journalists and commentators that ought to know better. I listen to right wing radio, and not one of them told their callers or listeners that their fantasies of charging Nancy Pelosi with a crime were totally wrong. The more "responsible" ones would give an answer like, "Well, I don't know what the law says....I just know that she's horrible and nasty and no one ought to ever be her friend."

I wish that we, as a society, could at least agree that truth matters.

ETA: And, even worse, there's at least a possibility that they might some day make some sort of comparable charge stick. At that point, we don't have America anymore. I don't think it will come to that. I think our traditions are too strong to disassemble completely. I don't think we'll see the President's political opponents thrown in jail for disrespecting the President.

But never in my life before now has that thought even crossed my mind as anything other than an academic possibility.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 8th February 2020 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 8th February 2020, 04:26 PM   #314
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Simple solution to the SOTU being a campaign speech - don't invite the president. The constitutional requirement is to "report" to congress. Tell Trump there won't be a speech - just send us your report, preferably in longhand.

I would guess the Joint Chiefs and the Supremes wouldn't mind. Nor would the other party.
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Old 8th February 2020, 04:44 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Simple solution to the SOTU being a campaign speech - don't invite the president. The constitutional requirement is to "report" to congress. Tell Trump there won't be a speech - just send us your report, preferably in longhand.

I would guess the Joint Chiefs and the Supremes wouldn't mind. Nor would the other party.
It solves A problem, but it doesn't solve THE problem.

The problem is that our elected leaders can't behave in a dignified manner for even a simple ceremonial occasion that is part of the American tradition.

And even that isn't the real problem. That's a symptom. The problem is that the American people elected someone as President after a year of making up cute nicknames for his opponents, and saying that his wife was better looking than his opponent's wife, and generally being a boorish, crude, utterly awful individual.

And for those of you on this board who voted for him, I won't call you idiots if your excuse is that he was better than Hillary Clinton, in your opinion. I don't like the choice, but I can understand it. However, if you voted for him in the primary, if you actually thought he was the best choice among all the candidates for President of the United States, then I have to ask what's wrong with you?

And then if, on top of all that, you also get outraged about, or at least feign outrage, at the Speaker of the House performing a dramatic but disrespectful gesture, then this is all your fault.
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Old 8th February 2020, 05:08 PM   #316
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Old 9th February 2020, 09:39 AM   #317
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(Anyone who thinks Trump destroyed America, or that America is in any way destroyed at all, is an idiot.)

Is that how it's done?
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Old 9th February 2020, 09:55 AM   #318
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
(Anyone who thinks Trump destroyed America, or that America is in any way destroyed at all, is an idiot.)

Is that how it's done?
I can't say I understand your point.

The President of the United States is saying that one of his political rivals committed a crime by tearing up a piece of paper. However, that's really no big deal because no one really takes the President of the United States very seriously. Sometimes he just says dumb stuff that ought to be ignored.

That doesn't mean America is destroyed. To the extent that America has suffered any destruction at all, Donald Trump didn't cause it. He just rode the wave. It's hard to see where any of this actually leads, but I can't see how it leads to something good.
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Old 9th February 2020, 10:41 AM   #319
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
... That doesn't mean America is destroyed. To the extent that America has suffered any destruction at all, Donald Trump didn't cause it. He just rode the wave. It's hard to see where any of this actually leads, but I can't see how it leads to something good.
Rogue waves are caused by large waves merging together. (At least that's the prevalent theory.)

Another way of looking at this: A baby imbecile wave merged with an evangelical nut wave to create a rogue imbecile-nut wave.
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Old 9th February 2020, 12:43 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
...Using SOTU as so blatantly a campaign speech is tacky and classless...
It wasn't so much as a SOTU as it was a STFU.
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