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Old 12th February 2020, 07:07 AM   #161
3point14
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm not at all surprised.

I'm a little surprised that after several cycles of vilifying every Republican candidate in the strongest terms, Democrats still expect their vilification to carry any weight, even among themselves.

You have to admit, it's a stunning tactic. When each GOP president turns out to be a bigger **** than the last one it allows this sort of denial to look feasible.


Stunning long term strategy.
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Old 12th February 2020, 07:15 AM   #162
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I am reminded of a German proverb, which goes something like
"When you have no reputation left to lose, you can do whatever you want".
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Old 13th February 2020, 07:34 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
Trump and Republicans figure they can do anything they want.
....
2. Claim the election was rigged against them from fraudulent votes and simply refuse to give up power.

And quite frankly if they do either of these I don't see anything being done about it. They'll get away with it just like every other corrupt immoral thing they've done.

Seriously who or what is going to stop them?
The Government.

Seriously, if the EC says that Trump lost, then in Jan of 2021 a new Executive will form with a new President being sworn in no matter how much Trump Tweets about how unfair it is. At that point the Executive Branches will all start answering to the newly sworn in President, and Trump and co will no longer have any power.
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Old 13th February 2020, 07:51 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
The Government.

Seriously, if the EC says that Trump lost, then in Jan of 2021 a new Executive will form with a new President being sworn in no matter how much Trump Tweets about how unfair it is. At that point the Executive Branches will all start answering to the newly sworn in President, and Trump and co will no longer have any power.
In December of 2020 he declares a state of emergency and that his term needs to be extended because of the national crisis and all his toadies fall in line.

Given the state of the executive branch after Trump purging anyone that as much as thinks about crossing him, assuming that these folks will respect the transfer of power seems optimistic.
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Old 13th February 2020, 07:57 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
The Government.

Seriously, if the EC says that Trump lost, then in Jan of 2021 a new Executive will form with a new President being sworn in no matter how much Trump Tweets about how unfair it is. At that point the Executive Branches will all start answering to the newly sworn in President, and Trump and co will no longer have any power.
I don't know what to make of the folks saying he will try and maintain power if he looses. Its pretty clear the vast majority of Federal beaucrats hate him and while they are cowards, the GOP law makers will still be glad to get rid of him just so long as they can tell their voters it wasn't the fault of the Senate.

I will bet that if Trump clearly loses and tries to claim fraud in order to stay office that he will not be supported in this claim by more than 1/10 of the GOP congress nor we he get support of more than 1 supreme court justice.

If I am wrong, I promise to stop posting on this forum. If he succeeds I will make plans to leave the country as that will be the end of the republic. As it will not happen, I have no current plans to leave.

I've got to start making a list of the paranoids so I can new who I should just dismiss or maybe start ignoring them.

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Old 13th February 2020, 07:57 AM   #166
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We're completely past the point where asking "Okay so what happens when Trump does something that he's not allowed to do?" is a question we shouldn't have to stop and justify every time we ask it.

Like I've said he ain't playing the "Deep state conspiracy theory" song over and over just because he likes the tune.

Are we talking complete and full refusal to step down? Maybe not. But within a metaphysical certainty he will not go quietly or make it easy.
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Old 13th February 2020, 11:50 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
We're completely past the point where asking "Okay so what happens when Trump does something that he's not allowed to do?" is a question we shouldn't have to stop and justify every time we ask it.

Like I've said he ain't playing the "Deep state conspiracy theory" song over and over just because he likes the tune.

Are we talking complete and full refusal to step down? Maybe not. But within a metaphysical certainty he will not go quietly or make it easy.
My prediction, if he loses:

Apart from the odd unseemly moan and grumble on twitter, he will go quietly.
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Old 13th February 2020, 12:02 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
My prediction, if he loses:

Apart from the odd unseemly moan and grumble on twitter, he will go quietly.
I'm betting he'll go out in a burst of drama, setting himself alight in protest on the White House lawn. It will be a horrific sight but owing to his diet it will smell quite nice.
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Old 13th February 2020, 12:08 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'm betting he'll go out in a burst of drama, setting himself alight in protest on the White House lawn. It will be a horrific sight but owing to his diet it will smell quite nice.
Mmmm, Sea Wheedies...
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Old 13th February 2020, 04:09 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Suddenly View Post
In December of 2020 he declares a state of emergency and that his term needs to be extended because of the national crisis and all his toadies fall in line.

Given the state of the executive branch after Trump purging anyone that as much as thinks about crossing him, assuming that these folks will respect the transfer of power seems optimistic.
He hasn't managed to weed out those that don't like him, heck half of those that he put there don't like him. The military is about evenly split on supporting him politically, though the JCS seem to not like him judging their actions, and the normal everyday soldiers aren't going to break their vows to protect the Constitution for him. The FBI, Homeland, even a lot of the DOJ won't support him doing it.

At the end of the day the Branches of Government will respond to the Voters will, and regardless of what Trump does, he'll be gone in Jan 2021 if he loses in the EC.

Remember all the doomsayers that claimed that Clinton, Bush, and Obama would all refuse to leave, or would try and extend their terms. None of them were right, and the same will happen with Trump.

Now will there be issues from his supporters if he loses... That's a totally different kettle of fish, but anything that they try that goes beyond the law will be shut down pretty quickly by law enforcement.
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Old 13th February 2020, 04:13 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
My prediction, if he loses:

Apart from the odd unseemly moan and grumble on twitter, he will go quietly.
I expect that on the assumption that he loses the EC, he'll spend from Nov to Jan whinging on Twitter, and once out he'll totally break with Tradition and tweet in caps about everything that the new President does and how he would have been so much better at dealing with it. If he loses this year I would not at all be surprised to see him starting to campaign and having rallies all aimed at running again in 2024.
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:35 PM   #172
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I think earlier in this thread I agreed that in order to defeat Trumpism, we'd need to experience some kind of tangible failure (e.g., recession). I'm now questioning that speculation. America both loves and hates losers. Out of office, Trump would be left purely to his own devices, Tweeting like an angry, little bitch. He would be dismissed and mocked. GOP Inc. would be too focused on attacking the current president. A Trump TV would probably fail for the same reason Trump's other business ventures fail.

Originally Posted by Suddenly View Post
In December of 2020 he declares a state of emergency and that his term needs to be extended because of the national crisis and all his toadies fall in line.
Without the Supreme Court on board, I don't think Republican politicians would support a coup. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump flirts with delaying the election, but that won't succeed either.
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:51 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Platinum fun fact! Platinum is one ingredient in the chemotherapy drug Cisplatin (hence the name). It's an effective drug, but one of the more unusual side effects is that it can cause deafness: apparently platinum in the human body tends to accumulate in the interior mechanisms of the ears.
How dare you use that horrible slur! There is no Cisplatin, there is only Platin!

Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
You have to admit, it's a stunning tactic. When each GOP president turns out to be a bigger **** than the last one it allows this sort of denial to look feasible.


Stunning long term strategy.
I've said this a lot recently, but it still amuses me that the accusations alone are seen as some kind of falsification, but the evidence that supports or disproves the accusation doesn't matter.

An innocent man being accused of murder doesn't prove a murder accused of murder innocent. This is even less reasonable when it's a sting of legitimately bad politicians being increasingly lawless.
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Old 13th February 2020, 07:55 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
...once out he'll totally break with Tradition and tweet in caps about everything that the new President does and how he would have been so much better at dealing with it...
Please don't say that. Don't even think it! How can we turn this guy off? I for one am so sick of hearing him, he never shuts up. Day after day. It's like the guards at Guantanamo blasting heavy metal at the inmates. It's a form of torture!
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Old 13th February 2020, 08:00 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Please don't say that. Don't even think it! How can we turn this guy off? I for one am so sick of hearing him, he never shuts up. Day after day. It's like the guards at Guantanamo blasting heavy metal at the inmates. It's a form of torture!
He'll never shut up until he's dead. And maybe not then.
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Old 14th February 2020, 12:36 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
blame Hillary
That should solve all problems.
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Old 14th February 2020, 04:14 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
That should solve all problems.
Seems to have worked for the Republicans for the past 28 years...
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Old 14th February 2020, 10:51 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
The Government.

Seriously, if the EC says that Trump lost, then in Jan of 2021 a new Executive will form with a new President being sworn in no matter how much Trump Tweets about how unfair it is. At that point the Executive Branches will all start answering to the newly sworn in President, and Trump and co will no longer have any power.
May I live to see it.
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Old 14th February 2020, 11:00 PM   #179
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I'm calling Trump calling 2020 for Trump.
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Old 15th February 2020, 05:06 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I expect that on the assumption that he loses the EC, he'll spend from Nov to Jan whinging on Twitter, and once out he'll totally break with Tradition and tweet in caps about everything that the new President does and how he would have been so much better at dealing with it. If he loses this year I would not at all be surprised to see him starting to campaign and having rallies all aimed at running again in 2024.

Do we expect him to live that long?
Do any ISF members work with life insurance?
Too bad he doesn't smoke. It's probably too late to try to convince him to do so.
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Old 15th February 2020, 05:50 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Please don't say that. Don't even think it! How can we turn this guy off? I for one am so sick of hearing him, he never shuts up. Day after day. It's like the guards at Guantanamo blasting heavy metal at the inmates. It's a form of torture!
I doubt most new outlets will cover the tweets when he's out of office. We'll hear from him in 2022 when he does rallies for Trump candidates and maybe in 2024 if one of his three nits who grew into lice run for president.
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Old 15th February 2020, 05:52 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
You have to admit, it's a stunning tactic. When each GOP president turns out to be a bigger **** than the last one it allows this sort of denial to look feasible.


Stunning long term strategy.
You think Trump was a GOP strategy?
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Old 15th February 2020, 06:03 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by Suddenly View Post
In December of 2020 he declares a state of emergency and that his term needs to be extended because of the national crisis and all his toadies fall in line.

Given the state of the executive branch after Trump purging anyone that as much as thinks about crossing him, assuming that these folks will respect the transfer of power seems optimistic.
It's really not that optimistic. The transition will go on. We are hard wired to do this. He hasn't purged everyone who is against him in the Executive. It will happen around him and build up a inertia to where it just keeps moving.

The military certainly won't follow his orders after the end of his term. Note the number of senior officers who have stood up against him. Our senior military leaders are famously apolitical. Trump's approval rating in the military is slightly higher than with civilians but it's not in the betray your oath territory.

The Secret Service (even more apolitical than the military) will do what they do best. They will ease Trump out and move the new president in.

I doubt Trump will show up for the inauguration (I half expect him to be in Mara Lago on the day of the event). He may not let it happen in the usual way. Up until noon on the day of, he can order the Executive and DoD not to participate.
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Old 15th February 2020, 06:44 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
You think Trump was a GOP strategy?
yes.
He was the strategy of really big GOP movers and shakers like Roger Ailes, Rupert Murdoch, the Sinclair Group, Sheldon Adelson and the Mercers.

Never in his life has Trump gotten anywhere on his own but rock bottom.
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Old 15th February 2020, 05:56 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
You think Trump was a GOP strategy?

He's certainly a not unexpected consequence of the GOP Southern Strategy of pandering to base fears and xenophobia, yes.
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Old 15th February 2020, 06:57 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
He's certainly a not unexpected consequence of the GOP Southern Strategy of pandering to base fears and xenophobia, yes.
Not to mention the extreme partisanship that the Republican party has engaged in over the last few decades.

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