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Tags 2020 elections , democrats , presidential candidates

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Old 12th February 2020, 10:30 AM   #1
rockysmith76
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Time for the Dems to Centralize, around a Centrist

They need an Electable Candidate, as well to marginalize the Lefties to their own party where they can fade into irrelevance with their outdated and uninspired platform.
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Old 12th February 2020, 10:43 AM   #2
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Hmm. For some reason I don't really think you have the Democrats best interests in mind here.
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Old 12th February 2020, 10:58 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Hmm. For some reason I don't really think you have the Democrats best interests in mind here.
You want Trump gone you need the most electable, and you need to gather round one of the pack soon. A Centrist has the best chance, lefties are doomed the way of McGovern.
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Old 12th February 2020, 11:01 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Hmm. For some reason I don't really think you have the Democrats best interests in mind here.
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Old 12th February 2020, 11:04 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
You want Trump gone you need the most electable, and you need to gather round one of the pack soon. A Centrist has the best chance, lefties are doomed the way of McGovern.
Cite a poll showing that.
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Old 12th February 2020, 11:04 AM   #6
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Democrats ran the Uber-Centrist last time. Didn't work.

As far as the electability argument goes, our current President is a draft-dodging, serial-adulterer, reality TV star with a string of failed businesses and more questionable foreign entanglements than a particularly implausible Bond villain.

The "electability" argument is stupid. Trump has proven that for all time.
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Old 12th February 2020, 11:05 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Cite a poll showing that.
No need, history already has.
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Old 12th February 2020, 11:06 AM   #8
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Here, this will help...

https://www.reddit.com/r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM/
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Old 12th February 2020, 11:06 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Random View Post
Democrats ran the Uber-Centrist last time. Didn't work.

As far as the electability argument goes, our current President is a draft-dodging, serial-adulterer, reality TV star with a string of failed businesses and more questionable foreign entanglements than a particularly implausible Bond villain.

The "electability" argument is stupid. Trump has proven that for all time.
They ran the one with baggage, too much of it. And blaming the other side accomplishes nothing for one's own.
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Old 12th February 2020, 11:08 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
No need, history already has.
When?
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Old 12th February 2020, 11:10 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
When?
name the long proud list of Liberal Leftie Dem Socialist American Presidents, I'll wait....
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Old 12th February 2020, 11:16 AM   #12
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The problem is getting the other centrists to drop out. Why would Buttigieg or Klobuchar or Bloomberg quit?
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Old 12th February 2020, 11:18 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
They ran the one with baggage, too much of it. And blaming the other side accomplishes nothing for one's own.
Not sure what you mean by "blaming the other side". Trump was, by any reasonable standard you care to go by, viewed as unelectable. He was viewed as unelectable all through the GOP primaries as he consistently got more votes than any of the "electable" candidates and drove all of them into the ground. He was viewed as "unelectable" in the matchup with Clinton, with poll after poll telling us that he was doomed and the American people would never elect an unelectable person like him. And he was elected.

"Electability", a vague, undefinable standard that we are all told is vital to a candidate, is just a way for our corporate media to tell us common folks who is and is not an acceptable candidate to them.
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Old 12th February 2020, 11:21 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Random View Post
Not sure what you mean by "blaming the other side". Trump was, by any reasonable standard you care to go by, viewed as unelectable. He was viewed as unelectable all through the GOP primaries as he consistently got more votes than any of the "electable" candidates and drove all of them into the ground. He was viewed as "unelectable" in the matchup with Clinton, with poll after poll telling us that he was doomed and the American people would never elect an unelectable person like him. And he was elected.

"Electability", a vague, undefinable standard that we are all told is vital to a candidate, is just a way for our corporate media to tell us common folks who is and is not an acceptable candidate to them.
Very simple: Blah blah blah because Trump.... The GOP will not challenge him with another so a leftie isn't going to cut it. And it's a good opportunity to get those people off to the margins where they belong.
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Old 12th February 2020, 11:22 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Random View Post
Democrats ran the Uber-Centrist last time. Didn't work.
That one had a ton of baggage and wasn't likable, and still won the popular vote. They could run an uber-centrist again and just make sure that they visit Wisconsin a couple of times.
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Old 12th February 2020, 11:25 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
name the long proud list of Liberal Leftie Dem Socialist American Presidents, I'll wait....
Roosevelt for starters. Of course, he didn't call himself "Socialist", he just passed Socialist policies under a Democratic banner. Roosevelt recognized that unrestrained capitalism was so bad for America, that it made a lot of people think Communism might be worth a shot. By passing Socialist (but not Communist) policies, he was able to improve the lot of the average American to the point where Communism lost its appeal.
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Old 12th February 2020, 11:28 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Random View Post
Democrats ran the Uber-Centrist last time. Didn't work.
Actually, lets consider a few things about the 2016 election, shall we?

Yes, for the most part Clinton was a 'centrist' for much of her political life. But, thanks to Sanders, the Democratic party had been dragged to the left to a certain degree. (For example, Clinton ended up supporting the $15 minimum wage, and opposed the TPP, positions that differed from earlier in her political career.)

Now, compare that to Trump... Yes, Trump is a racist xenophobe bigot. Yes, many/most of his policies were either lies, or incredibly vague. But, he claimed he was against the Iraq war. He claimed he wasn't going to touch medicare/medicaid/social security. He claimed he would protect LGBTQ rights.

An anti-war, pro-medicare/social security republican who is in favor of gay rights? Normally people would view such a person as a moderate.

If you were gullible enough to believe him, Trump was in many ways as close to the political center as Clinton. (Again, I'm not saying Trump was honest or trustworthy, only that the positions he espoused were politically moderate.)
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Old 12th February 2020, 11:28 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Random View Post
Roosevelt for starters. Of course, he didn't call himself "Socialist", he just passed Socialist policies under a Democratic banner. Roosevelt recognized that unrestrained capitalism was so bad for America, that it made a lot of people think Communism might be worth a shot. By passing Socialist (but not Communist) policies, he was able to improve the lot of the average American to the point where Communism lost its appeal.
the only one.
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Old 12th February 2020, 11:39 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
They need an Electable Candidate, as well to marginalize the Lefties to their own party where they can fade into irrelevance with their outdated and uninspired platform.
I agree that a moderate candidate probably provides the best chance for victory. (Although I don't agree with the idea of 'marginalizing' lefties. I think they do add something to the political debate within the Democrats, and having them split into their own party would be a strategic nightmare.)

The problem is the Democrats don't really have any good options when it comes to centrists anymore:

- Biden's campaign is struggling, and is prone to gaffs
- Buttigieg is doing very well, but I am concerned about his lack of experience in national politics
- Not sure I like the idea of Bloomberg taking over, since it has the stigma of 'rich guy buying the presidency'
- Klobuchar is doing better than I had expected, but seems to have troubles picking up African American support
- Steyer is unlikely to last much longer

I liked Booker but he didn't even make it to the primaries.
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Old 12th February 2020, 11:46 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
That one had a ton of baggage and wasn't likable, and still won the popular vote. They could run an uber-centrist again and just make sure that they visit Wisconsin a couple of times.
Surprise;the Left wing of the Democratic party wants to trash centralists and moderates.
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Old 12th February 2020, 12:01 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I agree that a moderate candidate probably provides the best chance for victory. (Although I don't agree with the idea of 'marginalizing' lefties. I think they do add something to the political debate within the Democrats, and having them split into their own party would be a strategic nightmare.)

The problem is the Democrats don't really have any good options when it comes to centrists anymore:

- Biden's campaign is struggling, and is prone to gaffs
- Buttigieg is doing very well, but I am concerned about his lack of experience in national politics
- Not sure I like the idea of Bloomberg taking over, since it has the stigma of 'rich guy buying the presidency'
- Klobuchar is doing better than I had expected, but seems to have troubles picking up African American support
- Steyer is unlikely to last much longer

I liked Booker but he didn't even make it to the primaries.
Biden is also superold. That doesn't seem to be a problem for the party's left but it does for the middle.

N. Carolina will be really interesting. None of the three candidates that have pulled ahead so far have gotten more than single digit support among African Americans. Biden might be back in the running.

Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
That one had a ton of baggage and wasn't likable, and still won the popular vote. They could run an uber-centrist again and just make sure that they visit Wisconsin a couple of times.
Yep.

Last edited by ahhell; 12th February 2020 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 12th February 2020, 12:04 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Surprise;the Left wing of the Democratic party wants to trash centralists and moderates.
Surprise, the right wing doesn't have either of those.
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Old 12th February 2020, 12:05 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
the only one.

The only one....elected four times in a row.

Don't forget that.
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Old 12th February 2020, 12:05 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Biden is also superold. That doesn't seem to be a problem for the party's left but it does for the middle.

N. Carolina will be really interesting. None of the three candidates that have pulled ahead so far have gotten more than single digit support among African Americans. Biden might be back in the running.

Yep.
Bernie isnt getting any younger.
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Old 12th February 2020, 12:06 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
the only one.
Truman was a pretty good follow up, and Kennedy would have been pretty good if he just told the military industrial types to STFU...
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Old 12th February 2020, 12:08 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Surprise, the right wing doesn't have either of those.
trash the other side to avoid the issue at hand.
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Old 12th February 2020, 12:15 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
trash the other side to avoid the issue at hand.
I was responding to a statement. The left has infinitely more representatives that would be considered moderate or centerist. In that they have more than 0. The GOP doesn't even have 1. All of the GOP is currently on the extreme ends of the spectrum, ignorantly so.
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Old 12th February 2020, 12:23 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Bernie isnt getting any younger.
Which is why I said, "that doesn't seem to be a problem with the party's left..." Both Sanders and Warren are quite old, the only reason nobody talks about Warren being old is that she's usually standing next to Biden and/or Sanders. This assessment is in part anecdotal. My more center left associates in real life often complain about Biden being so old, my more lefty left associates never seem to mention Sanders or Warrens age.

Regardless, neither Sanders nor Warren have made a habit of 50 year old pop culture references. Its as though Biden is trying to make sure nobody forgets exactly how old he is.

One of the differences that probably matter a lot, is that there isn't a youngish leftwing alternative to Warren or Sanders but there are youngish center alternatives to Biden.

Last edited by ahhell; 12th February 2020 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 12th February 2020, 12:24 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Very simple: Blah blah blah because Trump....
I'm sorry if you didn't understand what you quoted.

Quote:
The GOP will not challenge him with another so a leftie isn't going to cut it.
And why would it work better than last time?
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Old 12th February 2020, 12:33 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Random View Post
Democrats ran the Uber-Centrist last time.

Didn't work.
n = 1

Dems won with a centrist unifying figure in 1992, 1996, 2008, & 2016.

In my entire adult life, they have neve won any other way.

Relatedly, here is a test case from across the pond:

http://www.twitter.com/socialism21/s...79972741988353
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Old 12th February 2020, 12:36 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
That one had a ton of baggage and wasn't likable, and still won the popular vote. They could run an uber-centrist again and just make sure that they visit Wisconsin a couple of times.
If conspiracy theories and false accusations in the right wing media count as “baggage” then any Democratic candidate will have “baggage” no matter where they are on the political spectrum.
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Old 12th February 2020, 12:48 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
If conspiracy theories and false accusations in the right wing media count as “baggage” then any Democratic candidate will have “baggage” no matter where they are on the political spectrum.
She had baggage
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Old 12th February 2020, 02:34 PM   #33
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Keep seeing these sentiments from pundits like Max Booth and others. Many of them politically homeless Never Trumpers.

To this I say:

It sucks that the Republicans so mismanaged their party and had it taken over by a demagogue. The Democratic party isn't interested in accommodating irrelevant, powerless Republicans. Get on board on our terms or kick rocks. We don't need ya.

Running someone like Bloomberg is the best bet for fracturing the Democratic party into irrelevancy and guaranteeing Trump another term. This boat is steering left, not right.
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Old 12th February 2020, 03:50 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
name the long proud list of Liberal Leftie Dem Socialist American Presidents, I'll wait....
Official GOP List of Commie-Socialist Dem Presidents:
1) Every single Dem since 1932
2) Ronald Reagan (as of 2016 rules amendment)
3) George H. W. Bush (see no.2)
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Old 12th February 2020, 04:00 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Surprise, the right wing doesn't have either of those.
Yeah, I know we get it from both sides.
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Old 12th February 2020, 04:03 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Keep seeing these sentiments from pundits like Max Booth and others. Many of them politically homeless Never Trumpers.

To this I say:

It sucks that the Republicans so mismanaged their party and had it taken over by a demagogue. The Democratic party isn't interested in accommodating irrelevant, powerless Republicans. Get on board on our terms or kick rocks. We don't need ya.

Running someone like Bloomberg is the best bet for fracturing the Democratic party into irrelevancy and guaranteeing Trump another term. This boat is steering left, not right.

Yeah, the Bernie Bros really want to reach out to people not on the political left...……..
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Old 12th February 2020, 04:22 PM   #37
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I don't think a serious progressive couldn't win in any circumstances, but based on Iowa and New Hampshire's turnout, I don't think this is the year.

Turnout is approximately where it was in 2016 despite a much more interesting race. Bernie's revolution isn't happening.

The centrists should collude and consolidate their lane down to one TODAY. If Bernie gets a plurality overall, and a majority of delegates representing centrists pick someone other than Bernie, it nearly locks in a Trump reelection.
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Old 12th February 2020, 04:24 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Yeah, the Bernie Bros really want to reach out to people not on the political left...……..
You've convinced me. Let's nominate Romney. The anti-Trump situation means it doesn't really matter what the Dems want, so let's just turn the party in Republican Party #2.

The party doesn't have to sell its soul to beat Trump. We shouldn't give these half-baked arguments from Republican ghouls the time of day.
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Old 12th February 2020, 04:56 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
You've convinced me. Let's nominate Romney. The anti-Trump situation means it doesn't really matter what the Dems want, so let's just turn the party in Republican Party #2.

The party doesn't have to sell its soul to beat Trump. We shouldn't give these half-baked arguments from Republican ghouls the time of day.

SO all Republicans are evil..including those who left the party because they can't stand Trump?
And I am not sure the soul of the Democratic Party is as far to the left as you thnk it is...
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Old 12th February 2020, 04:57 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
n = 1

Dems won with a centrist unifying figure in 1992, 1996, 2008, & 2016.

In my entire adult life, they have neve won any other way.

Relatedly, here is a test case from across the pond:

http://www.twitter.com/socialism21/s...79972741988353
I think you mean 2012 instead of 2016.
But point well taken.]
I just think, even with the dislike of Trump, the Americans are ready to go as far to the left as the Berniebros think it is....
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