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Old 1st May 2019, 08:06 PM   #121
Bob001
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
But this was not a split second decision. She had to see Jean, deliberately unholster her gun, disengage the safety (I assume that, my knowledge of guns is a bit basic the hard bit comes out of the hole) take aim and then fire. She then decided to fire again.
.....
Some pistols, particularly the Glocks often preferred by police, don't have safeties to disengage. But in others it's just a thumb lever; people train to disengage the safety as they draw from the holster. I'm willing to grant that she drew her weapon on instinct; the issue is that she deliberately shot somebody -- twice -- when she had no conceivable grounds to do so, and, in particular, when she could have safely backed out of the unit and demanded an explanation/called for backup/etc.
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Old 1st May 2019, 08:11 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
....
Back when I took hunter safety and when the NRA was only about how to be safe with firearms, one of the first few things drilled into me was being sure about my target.
....
Not just sure of your target, but sure of everything behind your target. This was an apartment building; how many layers of wallboard and glass could a shot have passed through, with human beings behind all of them?
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Old 1st May 2019, 08:13 PM   #123
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If that 911 tape gains her any sympathy for being surprised, she loses it when she keeps saying things like "I'm gonna lose my job!" as the guy she shot is dying in front of her eyes.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 04:31 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
But this was not a split second decision. She had to see Jean, deliberately unholster her gun, disengage the safety (I assume that, my knowledge of guns is a bit basic the hard bit comes out of the hole) take aim and then fire. She then decided to fire again.

That is not a split second decision.
Neither was Noor's decision to unholster his gun and shoot an unarmed woman outside his car window, but the jury still only found him liable for 3rd degree murder, which is differentiated from more severe murder charges by a lack of intent.

We can split hairs about whether shooting at a person is ever an act without intent to kill in the general sense, but a jury won't necessarily see it that way.

If you think that Guyger committed murder with a clear intent, be prepared to be disappointed by the trial. My complete amateur opinion is that she'll get a similar outcome as Noor, a lesser degree murder charge that is more akin to manslaughter.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 05:16 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
We can split hairs about whether shooting at a person is ever a be an act without intent to kill in the general sense, but a jury won't necessarily see it that way.
We can always split hairs, we don't always split hairs. That's the problem.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 06:10 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yes as I've said repeatedly until the same level of fervor for "mens rea" as a magic word and hair splitting over parking spots and the exact height of door numbers and placement of welcome mats is applied to black people shooting cops while executing no-knock warrants in the middle of the night (often at the wrong location funny that) or white supremacist running down protesters I maintain there's an icky sheen to this whole thing.
This. Many many times this. This is known as the double standard for burden of proof: where one demands much more burden of proof for conviction of one set of people (police), while holding another group of people (civilians who are surprised by a no-knock warrant, police screaming at them, or police shouting conflicting confusing things at them) to a much lower burden of proof for conviction.
One of these is supposedly trained for high-intensity situations, and the other just might be bleeding out on the floor.
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Old 16th May 2019, 06:39 AM   #127
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Defense trying to get a change of venue
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crim...ng-botham-jean
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Old 16th May 2019, 06:41 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Defense trying to get a change of venue
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crim...ng-botham-jean
Someone will go to the wrong one...
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Old 16th May 2019, 07:49 AM   #129
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And shoot the prosecutor?
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Old 9th June 2019, 08:23 AM   #130
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Fired Dallas officer Amber Guyger appears in court for murder case in fatal shooting of Botham Jean

Originally Posted by Dallas News
Fired Dallas police officer Amber Guyger appeared in court Thursday, her first time before the judge who will oversee her murder trial in the shooting death of Botham Jean.

During a 12-minute hearing, state District Judge Tammy Kemp quizzed attorneys about the leaking of Guyger's 911 call after the shooting despite a gag order. In the call, Guyger sounds frantic about shooting Jean but also repeatedly mentions that she is going to lose her job as a police officer...

Kemp had previously asked the prosecution and defense to question everyone they worked with about whether they released the 911 recording. She asked the attorneys for the results of the inquiries Thursday in court. Kemp said she was "dismayed to find out the 911 call had been leaked to the media." The person who released it, she said, "lacked the integrity and the fortitude to honor" the gag order.

Prosecutor Jason Hermus and defense attorney Robert Rogers said that they had not leaked the audio and that the people they asked also said they had not. Hermus said Dallas police are still investigating whether any of the department's officers released the call. Kemp asked Hermus to notify her if the police inquiry leads anywhere.

Kemp and the attorneys decided that jury selection will begin Sept. 6 exactly one year after Jean's death. Potential jurors will first fill out a questionnaire, and those who are not disqualified will return Sept. 13 to be questioned by the attorneys. There probably will also be two pretrial hearings in July, but those dates have not been set. Testimony is scheduled to begin Sept. 23...
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crim...th-botham-jean
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