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Old 12th June 2019, 03:39 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Oh, that's awful. I know the statistics, but every one is a tragedy for someone.
Yeah; I was told.... You think that's a small chance, and it won't happen to you.


The worst thing, though, is that I can't tell the cat that wasn't supposed to happen.
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Old 12th June 2019, 04:08 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Why did you bring up healthcare? I said nothing about it.
Sorry, health/welfare.
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Old 12th June 2019, 04:20 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Silly. If you anesthetize an animal before you eat it you'll fall asleep during the meal!
About twenty minutes sooner than average, then.
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Old 12th June 2019, 07:33 PM   #284
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Outdoor cats like to eat lots of stuff.
https://news.ufl.edu/archive/2003/05...ationwide.html
Quote:
But as these cats forage for food and establish their territories, they kill more than a billion small mammals and birds each year, many of which are threatened or endangered, a University of Florida study shows.

Feral, or free-roaming, untamed cats pose a serious threat to endangered species nationwide as colonies of the wild cats have grown, largely because local groups provide funding and resources to sustain them, according to the UF study commissioned by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.
And not just USAian cats either.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/25/m...t-killing.html
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/26/asia/...ntl/index.html
Quote:
Since they were first introduced by European settlers, feral cats have helped drive an estimated 20 mammal species to extinction, Gregory Andrews, national commissioner of threatened species told the Sydney Morning Herald. According to Andrews, that makes feral cats the single biggest threat to Australia's native species.
They really don't like cats in one New Zealand town.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45347136
Quote:
A small village on the southern coast of New Zealand is planning to implement a radical plan to protect its native wildlife: ban all domestic cats . . .
Dr Marra says 63 species extinctions around the world are now linked to the booming cat populations. The problem is exacerbated in areas with very sensitive eco-systems, like New Zealand.
But sure, keep letting your cats outside.
Quote:
It is estimated that as many as four billion birds and 22 billion mammals are killed by cats in the US every year.

Even in the UK, populations are on the decline, and experts blame cats. The Mammal Society says that about 55 million birds are falling casualty each year
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Old 12th June 2019, 08:20 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Outdoor cats like to eat lots of stuff.
https://news.ufl.edu/archive/2003/05...ationwide.html

And not just USAian cats either.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/25/m...t-killing.html
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/26/asia/...ntl/index.html

They really don't like cats in one New Zealand town.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45347136

But sure, keep letting your cats outside.
Dog person, eh?
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Old 12th June 2019, 08:49 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Dog person, eh?
Wildlife person.
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Old 12th June 2019, 09:39 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I've seen "Monty Python and the Holy Grail", I know what rabbits are capable of.

On a more serious note, the other day I saw a video of a rabbit who managed to escape two cheetas. Cheetas!

My first marriage we lived in the upstairs apartment of a retro-fitted two apartment residential house in Eastport, Annapolis.

It had a small fenced-in backyard, and we would let the middle-aged chihuahua my wife had rescued at her veterinary job run loose in it from time to time.

The couple downstairs had a large pet buck rabbit. We couldn't let them out at the same time because the rabbit would chase the chihuahua around the yard and terrorize it.
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Old 12th June 2019, 09:44 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Plus the nonzero possibility the rabbit might attempt to kill you in revenge for the neutering. How long a wait afterward until you felt safe?

That's how long the rabbit would wait.
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Old 12th June 2019, 09:45 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Biding his time, lulling suspicion.

Exactly.
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Old 13th June 2019, 02:05 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
The couple downstairs had a large pet buck rabbit. We couldn't let them out at the same time because the rabbit would chase the chihuahua around the yard and terrorize it.
Life's weird sometimes. I saw more than one videos showing Chinchillas chasing terrified cats around.
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Old 13th June 2019, 02:44 AM   #291
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Repeated surveys carried out on a strictly scientific basis by bodies such as the RSPB show that pet cats have a negligible impact on the population of native birds and mammals in Britain. If every baby rabbit that's born and every starling that's hatched lived to a ripe old age for its species (and reproduced to its natural capacity) we'd be neck-deep in the things. Cats are just one of a number of pressures that balance the equation and they tend to take the weaker members of the populations in any case.

Bloody Jori, a small brown bird very dead on my kitchen floor this morning. I did apologise to the corpse. But that's nature.
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Old 13th June 2019, 02:49 AM   #292
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Agreed. And, in nesting season, ours will lurk for hours among the flowers, waiting for a nestling to fall from the eaves of our house. That bird was almost certainly doomed anyway so it hardly counts as a kill.
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Old 13th June 2019, 12:12 PM   #293
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My cat, who passed earlier this year aged around 19, lived outside in a little customized doghouse in a fenced yard. He got an abscess from a fight, which healed fine, and a bite on his leg that years later got full of cancer. He never hunted anything but moths. He did very proudly bring me a window-strike bird once. I suspect he was pretty arthritic. Even more than most cats he liked to just sleep.

I could only keep him because he wasn’t declawed. The rest of the family is horribly allergic, and I wouldn’t have been able to keep a declawed cat outdoors.

I once knew a little declawed stray who caught shrews anyway, somehow. She left tens of them outside all the apartments of people who liked her. Eventually a little girl adopted her as an indoor cat and the shrews heaved a collective sigh of relief.
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Old 16th June 2019, 02:49 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Incredible how intolerant of other views people are here. Not only do you disagree with this poster, you would ban them from having a pet!
It's "intolerant" to disapprove of having an animal mutilated and endure on going pain for hir convenience ?
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Old 16th June 2019, 02:52 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
He has done no such thing, and that's the problem. Debarking is not a healthcare issue, and I've been assured here that de-fanging isn't either. So the only question is about the declawing.
That's not true either.
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Old 16th June 2019, 02:58 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I've read "Bunnicula", I know what rabbits are capable of. I know what of rabbits are capable. Of the capabilities of rabbits I am knowing. It is known of the capability of rabbits which I know.
The Case of the Were Rabbit?
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Old 16th June 2019, 11:13 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
It's "intolerant" to disapprove of having an animal mutilated and endure on going pain for hir convenience ?
You're learning well from ponderingturtle in that this was a pretty stupid strawman.

I'm sure if you try harder you can understand what I was saying. In fact, I'm pretty sure you already do.

Quote:
That's not true either.
Only in the sense that any operation can result in problems.
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Old 16th June 2019, 12:38 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
You're learning well from ponderingturtle in that this was a pretty stupid strawman.

I'm sure if you try harder you can understand what I was saying. In fact, I'm pretty sure you already do.
You might want to learn what 'strawman' actually means before you try and use the term.

Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Only in the sense that any operation can result in problems.
Curiously the medical professionals disagree with your opinion.
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Old 16th June 2019, 12:50 PM   #299
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A: Debarking is not a healthcare issue

B: That's not true either [with plentiful evidence provided previously in the discussion which is acknowledged by A along the way]

A: Only in the sense that any operation can result in problems.

Now, Belz... - Consider A's first and second comments. Those were your comments. "Only in the sense ... "? wtf?? Put the two statements together and you contradicted yourself in plain view. Take a break from this eh? We all know you love a good squabble but this is ridiculous.
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Old 16th June 2019, 02:50 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
You might want to learn what 'strawman' actually means before you try and use the term.
Well you pretended like I said one thing in order to make it sound ridiculous and easy to put down while in fact I said something entirely different. How would you call it?

Quote:
Curiously the medical professionals disagree with your opinion.
What are the odds of complications, tell me?

Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Put the two statements together and you contradicted yourself in plain view.
Again: every medical procedure carries risk, so obviously if you take my comment entirely literally and act like a robot instead of a human being who understand language, sure, it wasn't 100% Vulcan-correct.

Quote:
Take a break from this eh? We all know you love a good squabble but this is ridiculous.
No, you don't. Just because I don't bow to people who disagree with me doesn't mean I'm responsible for said squabble. It takes two to tango. If I argue with someone, it's because I think I'm right. Now stop it with the personalisation and get to an actual point.

The problem here isn't me being combative. It's some posters here being way too emotionally invested in this topic to see straight.
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Old 16th June 2019, 03:03 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
... so obviously if you take my comment entirely literally and act like a robot instead of a human being who understand language, sure, it wasn't 100% Vulcan-correct.

Now stop it with the personalisation and get to an actual point.

The problem here isn't me being combative. It's some posters here being way too emotionally invested in this topic to see straight.
Read up, then down, from your response. Shame on you for even posting that.

Meanwhile, the immediate actual point was that debarking is a healthcare issue; a point you had denied yet later accepted in the face of evidence presented here. True or not?

[personalisation] You're in danger of becoming a parody of yourself, such is your propensity to squabbling for the fun of it (or to defend your position, come hell or high water)[/personalisation]
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Old 16th June 2019, 03:13 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Read up, then down, from your response. Shame on you for even posting that.
Sorry about that. You're right.*

My point is that being technically right isn't very interesting or, in fact, very right at all. Like, if someone says the sky is blue and you say "well, sometimes it's gray or black", you're technically right but, who cares? Aside from scoring points in an imaginary version of the conversation it gets someone nowhere.

Yes, it's a healthcare issue in the larger sense, as I admitted. However if it's a rare complication, it's not really an issue. So is it rare or not?

Quote:
Meanwhile, the immediate actual point was that debarking is a healthcare issue; a point you had denied yet later accepted in the face of evidence presented here. True or not?
I think you're confusing the issue of debarking with that of declawing.

Quote:
[personalisation] You're in danger of becoming a parody of yourself, such is your propensity to squabbling for the fun of it (or to defend your position, come hell or high water)[/personalisation]
Again, you are WRONG. I don't "squabble" for the fun of it, no matter how often you or anyone else repeats it. I debate issues and address things I consider to be wrong. Sometimes I'm the one who turns out to be wrong. That you disagree with me strongly, and that I don't immediately change my mind to match yours, doesn't mean I'm being disingenuous. I know a lot of people have problems accepting differing viewpoints and personalities, but I assure you, they exist.

*although to be fair, attacking one's current behaviour is not the same thing as attacking them for their personality.
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Old 16th June 2019, 11:49 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I think you're confusing the issue of debarking with that of declawing.
No, I'm not. I quoted the risks of debarking in post 248; you responded by asking for the source, so clearly you read it. Meanwhile you'd thanked kellyb for posting a similar list. Elsewhere people had posted the health risks of declawing. If anyone is confused it seems to be you.
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Old 17th June 2019, 01:39 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
No, I'm not. I quoted the risks of debarking in post 248; you responded by asking for the source, so clearly you read it. Meanwhile you'd thanked kellyb for posting a similar list. Elsewhere people had posted the health risks of declawing. If anyone is confused it seems to be you.
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Old 17th June 2019, 02:14 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
No, I'm not. I quoted the risks of debarking in post 248
Well you quoted someone in that post but with no link. I had to ask for a source and again Kellyb had to step in. A quarter is a lot, however, and I now see that some of the side-effects went unmentioned in this thread*. I wonder why, since they're more severe than those that were.

So ok, it's clearly a health(care) issue. However I really have a hard time understanding how some here are conducting these discussions. When you saw that comment of mine and wished to counter it, why not mention more of those health complications or quote the relevant parts of the link rather than try the contradiction angle or whatever? Given the nature of language as I explained, did you really think the latter would be more effective?

*How effective is the follow-up surgery? The link doesn't say.
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