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Tags Minneapolis incidents , police incidents , police misconduct charges , shooting incidents

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Old 19th July 2017, 02:55 PM   #361
William Parcher
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
That was the lawyer's statement from the driver, right? Not a formal police interview.
BCA agents did interview Harrity (the driver), but we are not given the full transcript of that. The press release tells what happened according to what he told BCA.

Here:

https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/ooc/new...-Shooting.aspx
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Old 19th July 2017, 02:58 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
So they're financially inept, as well. Perhaps even more so considering that tech price are usually significantly cheaper in the States than in the UK.

When you can get discretionary money and supplies from the Feds to arm and armor your SWAT troops it frees up a lot of funding from elsewhere. Money is fungible, after all.
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Old 19th July 2017, 02:59 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Try again
Yes .. now you have it ... my sarcasm is just so much better than yours and much better placed
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Old 19th July 2017, 02:59 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
When you can get discretionary money and supplies from the Feds to arm and armor your SWAT troops it frees up a lot of funding from elsewhere. Money is fungible, after all.
Don't forget all that civil asset forfeiture money either.
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Old 19th July 2017, 03:00 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
That was the lawyer's statement from the driver, right? Not a formal police interview.

It's still a statement from the driver. What difference does it make if it got relayed to us through the police dept. or not? It would still have been vetted by his lawyer.
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Old 19th July 2017, 03:04 PM   #366
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
I would imagine the shooter or 'non-driver officer' has been advised by his union rep, and the legal department, to not say anything (A wise decision everyone should follow when dealing with a possible court case) ... if there's a trial he can decide then if his testimony will help his case.

I was hoping a security cam might have caught the incident ... but I think we would have heard about it by now if there was any recoding.

We can know from past experience that any recordings the police might have managed to get to before they were saved or released by third parties would be sequestered "until the investigation is complete".

There is no reason to believe that they would even share knowledge of their existence, much less their contents, until they were compelled to.
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Old 19th July 2017, 03:12 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Why on Earth would they do that?
They may not have invented it. I just couldn't find anything about it at the KSTP News website.

I don't know if a plot is thickening. Others are now talking about her pounding on the car with that information coming from an anonymous source.

Yahoo News says this...

Quote:
A report from Minneapolis TV station KSTP citing an anonymous source, claims they could not find anything at the scene, but watched a young male cyclist ride past on the passenger side of their police vehicle just as they were about to depart.

With their attention on him, they became spooked by a pounding on the driver’s side, which officers thought was “an ambush”, KSTP reported.
No fireworks, and instead the startling sound was her pounding?
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Old 19th July 2017, 03:18 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Such contracts are typically for storing and validating all of the video to comply with evidence collection regulations. Without a breakdown of how much of that was for the hardware on the cop your point is moot.

<snip>

Not to mention that the cost of vertical market hardware and software for such organizations as police depts. is generally inflated by an order of magnitude or so, just because it gets paid for by tax dollars.
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Old 19th July 2017, 03:18 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
It's still a statement from the driver. What difference does it make if it got relayed to us through the police dept. or not? It would still have been vetted by his lawyer.
I am hoping, maybe unrealistically, that the cops would question him more aggressively than his own lawyer.
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Old 19th July 2017, 03:21 PM   #370
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Now Globe and Mail, and headlights are off, and gun is in lap...

Quote:
According to the state Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, Noor’s partner, Officer Matthew Harrity, told investigators he was driving in the alley with all of the vehicle’s lights off when he was startled by a loud noise, which authorities did not describe. Harrity said Damond appeared at the driver’s side window “immediately afterward” and Noor fired, striking her in the abdomen. She died at the scene.

Television station KSTP, citing a source it did not name, said the two officers thought they were being targeted for an ambush when they heard a pounding noise on the driver’s side. Noor had his gun on his lap.

The Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension did not confirm the KSTP report. Harrity’s attorney, Fred Bruno, told the Star Tribune it was “certainly reasonable” for the officers to fear a possible ambush...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rticle35737803
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Old 19th July 2017, 03:23 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I am hoping, maybe unrealistically, that the cops would question him more aggressively than his own lawyer.

Why would his lawyer let them question him more aggressively than he would.

Anything he says to them is not protected by lawyer-client privilege.
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Old 19th July 2017, 03:24 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I am hoping, maybe unrealistically, that the cops would question him more aggressively than his own lawyer.
According to your link US police have a pronounced siege mentality and are likely busy avoiding any blame to fall on an officer. Kind of wonder when/if their counterproductive counterinsurgency approach will cause an insurgency.
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Old 19th July 2017, 03:25 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Why would his lawyer let them question him more aggressively than he would.

Anything he says to them is not protected by lawyer-client privilege.
Like I said, "maybe unrealistically." Maybe the cop might just want to tell the truth and accept the consequences? Too much to ask.
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Old 19th July 2017, 03:30 PM   #374
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Sydney Morning Herald...

Quote:
On Tuesday, the loud sound reported by Harrity was reportedly fireworks – giving rise to speculation that Noor had been spooked by the fireworks, possibly thinking they were under attack. But on Wednesday, a new narrative emerged – a local TV station was told that Harrity and Noor thought the noise was someone pounding on the panels of their vehicle, as a result of which they figured they were being ambushed.

Apparently, they had concluded there was nothing to Damond's 911 report and were heading to their next assignment. They were observing a cyclist, somewhere between 18 and 25 years old, as he/she rode eastward on 51st St when they heard the pounding.

And in a surprising new twist to a drama that has transfixed Minneapolis and Australia, it emerged on Wednesday that some of the cop's encounter with Damond might have been recorded on video.

There has been much criticism of Noor and Harrity's reported failure to activate their body-cams or their car's dash-cam. But according to the local KSTP news channel, the unidentified cyclist had circled back – and had made a video recording the cops' attempt to resuscitate Damond.

Harrity's attorney, Fred Bruno, told local reporters it was reasonable for the cops to assume they were the targets of an ambush – "It's certainly reasonable to assume that any police officer would be concerned about a possible ambush under these circumstances. It was only a few weeks ago when a female NYPD cop and mother of twins was executed in her car in a very similar scenario."...

http://www.smh.com.au/world/police-t...19-gxer17.html
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Old 19th July 2017, 03:30 PM   #375
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Quote:
Television station KSTP, citing a source it did not name, said the two officers thought they were being targeted for an ambush when they heard a pounding noise on the driver’s side. Noor had his gun on his lap.

The Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension did not confirm the KSTP report. Harrity’s attorney, Fred Bruno, told the Star Tribune it was “certainly reasonable” for the officers to fear a possible ambush...
So if they were driving slowly in the alley she might have run up behind them and slapped the fender to get their attention? And instead of saying "Hey, what?" they killed her? That goes back to the "I was scared" defense, and goes back to maybe we need cops that aren't more scared of noises and strangers than the average Golden Retriever.
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Old 19th July 2017, 03:40 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
They may not have invented it. I just couldn't find anything about it at the KSTP News website.

I don't know if a plot is thickening. Others are now talking about her pounding on the car with that information coming from an anonymous source.

Yahoo News says this...


No fireworks, and instead the startling sound was her pounding?
If the driver side window was open, why would the woman have needed to pound on the door to attract attention?
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Old 19th July 2017, 03:47 PM   #377
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There's a predictable pattern to a fatal police shooting. But not in the case of Justine Ruszczyk

Originally Posted by CNN
There's a predictable pattern to the aftermath of too many deadly police shootings: Neighbors and anti-police brutality groups take to the streets. Groups supporting the officers stand up for them. Social media lights up over whether the victim "did something" to provoke the officer.

But none of that holds true in the case of Justine Ruszczyk, a white Australian bride-to-be who was killed by Mohamed Noor, a Somali-American black police officer in Minneapolis.

And that, say experts, speaks volumes about the state of America today...
White victim + black cop shooter = no protesting.


http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/19/us/min...rnd/index.html
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Old 19th July 2017, 03:48 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
If the driver side window was open, why would the woman have needed to pound on the door to attract attention?
I don't know. Maybe she preferred to pound instead of saying, "hello officers".
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Old 19th July 2017, 03:52 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
If the driver side window was open, why would the woman have needed to pound on the door to attract attention?
If she was running up behind them while they were rolling, she would have wanted to catch them before they drove away. She might have been calling out, too. And they would have stopped, she would have run to the window, and instead of asking "What's up?," they killed her.
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Old 19th July 2017, 03:52 PM   #380
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Okay, next trick then. If they heard a pounding on the rear panels of the car, and "believed it was an ambush", how did the victim get shot through the driver-side window, by the cop in the passenger seat? Are we to imagine they felt so threatened by this ambush, signaled by the knocking on the rear of the car, that they then stopped the vehicle and allowed the attacker to approach the open driver window before taking any kind of action?
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Old 19th July 2017, 03:53 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Now Globe and Mail, and headlights are off, and gun is in lap...

Quote:
According to the state Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, Noor’s partner, Officer Matthew Harrity, told investigators he was driving in the alley with all of the vehicle’s lights off when he was startled by a loud noise, which authorities did not describe. Harrity said Damond appeared at the driver’s side window “immediately afterward” and Noor fired, striking her in the abdomen. She died at the scene.

Television station KSTP, citing a source it did not name, said the two officers thought they were being targeted for an ambush when they heard a pounding noise on the driver’s side. Noor had his gun on his lap.

The Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension did not confirm the KSTP report. Harrity’s attorney, Fred Bruno, told the Star Tribune it was “certainly reasonable” for the officers to fear a possible ambush...
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rticle35737803

This is the same Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension news release which has already been quoted and cited in this thread.

Specifically, that report says;
Quote:
The officers drove south through the alley between Washburn and Xerxes avenues toward West 51st Street in search of a suspect. All squad lights were off.
I suspect that that somehow morphed into "all of the vehicle’s lights off", much as it did here.

I don't interpret it that way. The term "squad lights" has a fairly specific and generally accepted meaning to law enforcement.

I can't seem to find the statement by KSTP citing an unknown source claiming the two cops thought they were being ambushed. I scanned through about half a dozen of their most recent articles on their web site. Maybe someone else will have more success.

I will say that if someone thinks that a woman in pajamas coming up to their squad car when they were responding to a call from a woman reporting a possible rape (even if she actually was 'pounding on the car') instantly interprets that as an "ambush" and start blasting away then they have no business wearing a uniform.

Do ambushers (dressed in pajamas) generally announce their presence by alerting the cops they are ambushing before they do anything hostile? Is that a reasonable thing to assume? A "credible threat"?
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Old 19th July 2017, 03:53 PM   #382
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I'm leaning towards an "accidental discharge" scenario.

There's some narrative that questions Noor's experience/competence...That he may have been a "political" hire.

At any rate, whether from the reported fireworks or the woman herself banging on the car, Noor draws his pistol. Woman (possibly in an agitated state) suddenly appears at the window and Noor is startled....
I don't know what kind of pistols these guys are issued. However, firing across your seated partner is not something you'd do deliberately.

I just looked, evidently the Minneapolis PD authorizes several different firearms. If Noor were carrying one of the authorized Glocks, a relatively easy trigger pull is all that's required to fire the weapon. There have been accidental discharges with these weapons.
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Old 19th July 2017, 04:00 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
I'm leaning towards an "accidental discharge" scenario.

There's some narrative that questions Noor's experience/competence...That he may have been a "political" hire.

<snip>

Could you share links to the sources of this narrative?
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Old 19th July 2017, 04:01 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Okay, next trick then. If they heard a pounding on the rear panels of the car, and "believed it was an ambush", how did the victim get shot through the driver-side window, by the cop in the passenger seat? Are we to imagine they felt so threatened by this ambush, signaled by the knocking on the rear of the car, that they then stopped the vehicle and allowed the attacker to approach the open driver window before taking any kind of action?
It sure sounds that way. More realistically, it sounds like the driver wasn't scared, might even have been able to see her in his rear-view mirror, and it was the passenger-cop who had a panic attack.
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Old 19th July 2017, 04:03 PM   #385
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Quote:
Television station KSTP, citing a source it did not name, said the two officers thought they were being targeted for an ambush when they heard a pounding noise on the driver’s side. Noor had his gun on his lap.

The Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension did not confirm the KSTP report. Harrity’s attorney, Fred Bruno, told the Star Tribune it was “certainly reasonable” for the officers to fear a possible ambush...

Yeah, that sounds a lot like the sort of thing a lawyer would say.

"Credible threat" strikes again.
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Old 19th July 2017, 04:03 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I suspect that that somehow morphed into "all of the vehicle’s lights off", much as it did here.

I don't interpret it that way. The term "squad lights" has a fairly specific and generally accepted meaning to law enforcement.
I disagree. When I was in EMT training, the trainers would consistently use the term "the squad" to refer to the ambulance - as in, the physical vehicle. In that context, "the squad lights" would logically refer to the vehicle's lights in general.

Perhaps you have a secondary source that shows police using "squad lights" to refer specifically to the emergency lights as opposed to the rest of the vehicle's lights?
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Old 19th July 2017, 04:08 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
....

I just looked, evidently the Minneapolis PD authorizes several different firearms. If Noor were carrying one of the authorized Glocks, a relatively easy trigger pull is all that's required to fire the weapon. There have been accidental discharges with these weapons.
As noted above, never "accidental" discharge, always "negligent" discharge. The cop shouldn't have been touching the trigger until he had taken aim at a recognized target.
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Old 19th July 2017, 04:08 PM   #388
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
More realistically, it sounds like the driver wasn't scared
The driver says he was startled by the sound.
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Old 19th July 2017, 04:13 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I disagree. When I was in EMT training, the trainers would consistently use the term "the squad" to refer to the ambulance - as in, the physical vehicle. In that context, "the squad lights" would logically refer to the vehicle's lights in general.

Perhaps you have a secondary source that shows police using "squad lights" to refer specifically to the emergency lights as opposed to the rest of the vehicle's lights?

No.

I'm not sure what the point of turning their headlights off in a well lit alley would be, though. It isn't like they were going to be able to sneak up on anyone.
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Old 19th July 2017, 04:27 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Alley at night. All cop car lights are off. He may not have realized that it was a woman until after he shot her.

Bang! (the fireworks). Then a sudden human figure coming close with something in hand. This cop made the decision to immediately aim and fire on that person.

Damn horrible mistake.
i can understand your posts as an explanation for what happened and went wrong. I am okay if your next conclusion is: this is an example of someone completely inappropriate to be a cop, and perhaps inadequate training as well. The cop should be fired and brought up on negligent homicide charges. The police should implement new training and policies to prevent this from happening again as much as possible.

However, I sense that your conclusion is instead: whoops, a no no by the cop but perfectly understanable under the circumstances. Just have to expect that sort of thing from time to time.

The second is not okay by me. I do not accept it is okay for a cop to kill a women in pjs because she has a cell phone and their was a loud noise. if this is okay, then anyone would be crazy not to hide from cops at all times.

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Old 19th July 2017, 04:34 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
However, I sense that your conclusion is instead: whoops, a no no by the cop but perfectly understanable under the circumstances. Just have to expect that sort of thing from time to time.
No, it's not okay. These things will happen from time to time. It's never okay.
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Old 19th July 2017, 06:38 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by Star Tribune
Harrity was interviewed for four hours by the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, Gov. Mark Dayton said Wednesday.
http://m.startribune.com/attorney-re...mond/435415343
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
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Old 19th July 2017, 06:47 PM   #393
BStrong
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Your point being?
Different environment, different threats and different responses for better or for worse.

Not included in the numbers for the U.S. in my post above are the 27 officers killed in the line of duty so far in 2017 - 26 shot and killed, 1 stabbed to death.
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Old 19th July 2017, 06:50 PM   #394
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post

Hannity's lawyer says;
Quote:
“I can’t reveal specifics of the interview.”
“To be fair to everyone involved, I don’t want to compromise the investigation,” he said.
Except, of course, for;
Quote:
“it’s certainly reasonable” to assume that police believed they might be the target of a possible ambush when his partner, officer Mohamed Noor, shot and killed Justine Damond in a south Minneapolis alley Saturday night.
Which is being fair to everyone involved, including the family of the victim.

From a lawyer's point of view, I suppose. Actually saying nothing at all obviously wasn't an option.
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Last edited by quadraginta; 19th July 2017 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 19th July 2017, 07:14 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Who was firing 30-o6 rifles at Khe Sanh?????????
There's not one ear on this planet that can tell the difference between the report of any of the various full power service rifle cartridges.

An /06 sounds like a 7.62 x 51 that sounds like a 7.92 x 57 that sounds like a 7.62 x 54R that sounds like the .303 British etc.
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Old 19th July 2017, 07:35 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
My analysis of each bit of information as it comes out (assuming it's accurate), in no way diminishes my feelings for the woman and her family. But I like to look at things from all perspectives.

She was shot in the abdomen. Reports say he shot through the door but I also saw reported that he shot through the driver's side window, which sounds more logical (as far as logic applies in this situation). If she was approaching on a downward slope, the officer may not have been able to see the upper part of her body, heard what he thought was a shot, saw his partner jerk, and reacted.
What! this woman was 8 feet tall?
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Old 19th July 2017, 07:44 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
"We'd like to ask you a few questions."

"Am I under arrest?"

"No, but-"

"Then we're done here. Goodbye."

.
Not recommended after you've just shot somebody.
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Old 19th July 2017, 07:49 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Different environment, different threats and different responses for better or for worse.

Not included in the numbers for the U.S. in my post above are the 27 officers killed in the line of duty so far in 2017 - 26 shot and killed, 1 stabbed to death.
Without any disrespect for our boys in blue, I ask: How many cab drivers? How many bus drivers? How many corrections officers? How many 7-11 clerks? How many waiters walking home from work? Etc. Police work isn't even in the top 10 most dangerous jobs.
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Old 19th July 2017, 07:50 PM   #399
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The driver says he was startled by the sound.
That's not the same as "in fear for my life from a deadly threat."
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Old 19th July 2017, 07:57 PM   #400
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Originally Posted by Noztradamus View Post
Not recommended after you've just shot somebody.
You've just shot somebody. You're not under arrest. What do you gain at the point, by letting the police interrogate you anyway?

I'm pretty sure "arrest me or piss off" is the only rational response, at that point.

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Last edited by theprestige; 19th July 2017 at 07:59 PM.
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