ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Minneapolis incidents , police incidents , police misconduct charges , shooting incidents

Reply
Old 19th July 2017, 10:21 AM   #281
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 24,357
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Alley at night. All cop car lights are off. He may not have realized that it was a woman until after he shot her.

The cop car's headlights, etc., were on. It wasn't running its flashing cop lights.

Quote:

Bang! (the fireworks). Then a sudden human figure coming close with something in hand. This cop made the decision to immediately aim and fire on that person.

Damn horrible mistake.

According to the statements made by residents the alley is well lit by at least three streetlights.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 10:23 AM   #282
Pterodactyl
Graduate Poster
 
Pterodactyl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,184
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
The cop car's headlights, etc., were on. It wasn't running its flashing cop lights.




According to the statements made by residents the alley is well lit by at least three streetlights.
Are you leaning toward the conclusion that the officer quickly and accurately determined that this woman was no threat, then decided to shoot her anyway?
Pterodactyl is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 10:25 AM   #283
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 24,357
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What are you talking about? People decline to talk about to the police all the time.

<snip>

They have a right to not answer questions. I'm not aware of any right to not be asked questions.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 10:32 AM   #284
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 24,357
Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
Are you leaning toward the conclusion that the officer quickly and accurately determined that this woman was no threat, then decided to shoot her anyway?

I am of the opinion that the officer did not quickly or accurately determine anything.

He panicked and fired without doing either.

Which is the problem.

This "credible threat" malarkey has gotten way out of hand. At some point there has to be a duty to properly assess the situation, and that isn't happening.

The "credible threat" excuse has become little more than a license to gun down just about anyone who happens to be within range.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 10:35 AM   #285
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 24,357
Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
<snip>

I haven't seen any evidence that this was anything other than a tragic accident case of fatal negligence.

FTFY.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 10:38 AM   #286
Pterodactyl
Graduate Poster
 
Pterodactyl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,184
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I am of the opinion that the officer did not quickly or accurately determine anything.

He panicked and fired without doing either.

Which is the problem.

This "credible threat" malarkey has gotten way out of hand. At some point there has to be a duty to properly assess the situation, and that isn't happening.

The "credible threat" excuse has become little more than a license to gun down just about anyone who happens to be within range.

Ok. So we've established it wasn't done on purpose and was probably a mistake. I'm right there with you.

You seem very eager to explain away possible reasons the police might have misidentified the woman as a threat. But obviously they did.
Pterodactyl is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 10:45 AM   #287
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 24,357
Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
Ok. So we've established it wasn't done on purpose and was probably a mistake. I'm right there with you.

You seem very eager to explain away possible reasons the police might have misidentified the woman as a threat. But obviously they did.

I'm not trying to explain away anything.

As you just pointed out, he misidentified the threat.

That's the problem.

Trying to dream up excuses to absolve the cop of responsibility for doing so doesn't change that simple fact.

Why do you believe it is so unreasonable to expect cops to accurately identify the threat before they start blasting away?
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 10:52 AM   #288
bignickel
Mad Mod Poet God
 
bignickel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 3,166
Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
The human mind has a tendency to fill in gaps when/where circumstances make details difficult to observe. Any person hearing loud explosions and seeing a person moving quickly toward them with something in their hand, might possibly conclude the item to be a gun and assume they are being shot at.

Taking into account this being the night time, possible nature of the call, statements from the driver, etc. I could see how it would happen. The fact that it was a blonde woman shouldn't really be taken into account should it? We can't have police factoring in race/gender when conducting personal risk assessment in their duties.

I haven't seen any evidence that this was anything other than a tragic accident.
So, if I, Joe Citizen, am out walking, and hear a loud bang (in JULY, in the UNITED STATES), then I can shoot someone walking towards me?

Because I have a tiny suspicion that us 'regular civilians' aren't going to avoid prison for such a thing.
__________________
"You can find that book everywhere and the risk is that many people who read it believe that those fairy tales are real. I think I have the responsibility to clear things up to unmask the cheap lies contained in books like that."
- Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone
bignickel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 11:12 AM   #289
CaptainHowdy
Graduate Poster
 
CaptainHowdy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,312
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
The only website I've seen so far that describes this officer as a refugee is the stupid rag WND. Where are you getting your information from?
New York Times buried that information in one of it's stories. But you're right to notice that this isn't being publicized.


Quote:
Actually your claim is what happens when you let your judgement be clouded with hate and prejudice. While the Somali government adopted a Latin script to write their language in 1972, they had used other writing systems for centuries.
Where are you finding this information? The UN said nothing about having an alphabet prior to the 1970s.

Quote:
Where are you getting your information on plumbing in Somalia? The same place as the other crap you spout? Surely you understand that all legal US residents have the same 2nd amendment rights as citizens? Probably not.
Not true. It's a felony for a non-citizen who is not permanent legal resident to carry firearms with a few exceptions. Mo is a police officer so obviously he is legally able to carry a gun. He is able to carry a concealed weapon on his person at all times. The point is that he shouldn't have been allowed to join the police force, become a citizen, or even be granted the right to step foot in the United States.

Quote:
Until more information becomes available we can do without your "but but but he's blak!!!" crap.
We know everything we need to know to know he shouldn't have been here. The color of his skin isn't the reason.
CaptainHowdy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 11:17 AM   #290
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 39,030
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
They have a right to not answer questions. I'm not aware of any right to not be asked questions.
"We'd like to ask you a few questions."

"Am I under arrest?"

"No, but-"

"Then we're done here. Goodbye."

This signature is intended to irradiate people.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 11:18 AM   #291
CaptainHowdy
Graduate Poster
 
CaptainHowdy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,312
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I'm merely asking where you are getting your information from. Nothing about the man's origin is going to be of any "comfort" to me at all.

You seem to be willing to make up facts about this person instead of going with what you can verify. Why are you doing that? Why does it matter if he was a refugee at a young age or an immigrant?
It doesn't matter. Refugee is just a euphemism for 'worthless non-White with no money or skills who will never assimilate to our way of life' anyway.
CaptainHowdy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 11:19 AM   #292
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,367
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
The cop car's headlights, etc., were on. It wasn't running its flashing cop lights.

According to the statements made by residents the alley is well lit by at least three streetlights.
I think you may be right about no cop lights (flashing blue) but yes headlights. There is maybe still a possibility of no headlights either...

Originally Posted by Press Release
The officers drove south through the alley between Washburn and Xerxes avenues toward West 51st Street in search of a suspect. All squad lights were off.

As they reached West 51st Street, Officer Harrity indicated that he was startled by a loud sound near the squad. Immediately afterward Ruszczyk approached the driver’s side window of the squad. Harrity indicated that Officer Noor discharged his weapon, striking Ruszczyk through the open driver’s side window.
It's not specific about the headlights. Rolling without any lights at all is a possible tactic for investigating a crime in progress.

Also it looks like the contact point was the end of the alley where it meets the street. Maybe we could find out the street lighting situation at that spot rather than within the alley itself.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 11:20 AM   #293
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 21,544
Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
It doesn't matter. Refugee is just a euphemism for 'worthless non-White with no money or skills who will never assimilate to our way of life' anyway.
Build a wall to keep the monkeys out.
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 11:24 AM   #294
CaptainHowdy
Graduate Poster
 
CaptainHowdy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,312
Originally Posted by Sergei Walankov View Post
How about "blue state's insane politically correct police recruitment policies leave white women at the mercy of uniformed foreign terrorists?"
How about "Minneapolis police officer murders unarmed immigrant?" The SJW and BLM monkeys would've been chimping out until they read the details.
CaptainHowdy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 11:25 AM   #295
Information Analyst
Philosopher
 
Information Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 9,914
Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
Where are you finding this information? The UN said nothing about having an alphabet prior to the 1970s.
It's not rocket science. Even before official adopting of Latin script in 1972, it was used, along with Arabic and three other script forms.
Information Analyst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 11:26 AM   #296
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,323
Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
The human mind has a tendency to fill in gaps when/where circumstances make details difficult to observe. Any person hearing loud explosions and seeing a person moving quickly toward them with something in their hand, might possibly conclude the item to be a gun and assume they are being shot at.

Taking into account this being the night time, possible nature of the call, statements from the driver, etc. I could see how it would happen. The fact that it was a blonde woman shouldn't really be taken into account should it? We can't have police factoring in race/gender when conducting personal risk assessment in their duties.

I haven't seen any evidence that this was anything other than a tragic accident.

This is the latest report from the local paper. That is what the cops are claiming now: "Loud noise, open fire."
http://www.startribune.com/attorney-...ond/435415343/

And those factors certainly have to be considered. Two cops who aggressively take down a belligerent drunk should not need to behave the same way toward an elderly woman or a small child. Someone who doesn't present an immediate, obvious, indisputable threat should not be killed on the spot.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 11:29 AM   #297
bignickel
Mad Mod Poet God
 
bignickel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 3,166
It used to be the case that police officers were considered normal citizens like all their fellow citizens ; they got up in the morning , went to work, finish the day, came home and unwound. Their job had some danger in it , just like cabdrivers or firemen had to face , but they did their job and that was it.

I don't know when , but somehow over the last 40 years, many members of the police seemed to develop the attitude that they weren't citizens like the rest of us: that they were more akin to a peacekeeping force keeping their eye on "civilians". The warrior mentality drilled in by countless sessions of warrior training (that one guy alluded to earlier in this or another thread), demanding compliance instead of keeping the peace, etc

Maybe Blade Runner was off about the flying cars (thank goodness) but it seems right on the money about this : "if you're not cop, you're little people."
__________________
"You can find that book everywhere and the risk is that many people who read it believe that those fairy tales are real. I think I have the responsibility to clear things up to unmask the cheap lies contained in books like that."
- Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone

Last edited by bignickel; 19th July 2017 at 11:30 AM. Reason: Edit
bignickel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 11:33 AM   #298
fuelair
Banned
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 58,582
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And as such they become the legal arbiter of fact. That is one of the primary roles of the jury.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trier_of_fact
That is a technicality. Real facts may easily be missed or even dismissed by a jury and in such case they may easily cause the innocent to be found guilty or the guilty to be found innocent. In either case the jury would be wrong and justice will go unserved!!!
fuelair is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 11:41 AM   #299
alfaniner
Penultimate Amazing
 
alfaniner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 20,821
Another snippet revealed (which may or may not be true). Report says he fired through the open door. I can now see how, if she was on the same level and close, she could be hit in the abdomen.

We are talking about fractions of seconds when referring to who was where when, and what the officer on the passenger side could have perceived.

(The following is tasteless and too soon. Don't open it.)
It's only a matter of time before we find out that there were actually eight people in the car.
__________________
Science is self-correcting.
Woo is self-contradicting.

Last edited by alfaniner; 19th July 2017 at 11:44 AM.
alfaniner is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 11:58 AM   #300
Ron Swanson
Illuminator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,421
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Anyone who acts distraught or upset after calling the cops to report a prowler in the middle of the night can be considered a credible threat and deserves to be gunned down on the spot?

Because there was a loud noise somewhere?
Sure ... if you think that's best
Ron Swanson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 12:02 PM   #301
Ron Swanson
Illuminator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,421
Originally Posted by casebro View Post
That was me, and yes to the seriously part.

Cripes, haven't you guys ever dealt with the insane? at all? Not even an insane pan handler? They do insane stuff, like commit suicide. They get shot, justifiably, quite regularly for doing insane stuff around cops.

I would have thunk an unbiased newsman would have interviewed the boyfriend to see what he meant by "passionate". But that would be "blaming the victim" if she was crazy, so not done in mainstream media.
OK ... I should have sorted thru the thread

.. but yes I agreed just another possibility, I have shop downtown in small city and there are lots of really crazy people in here every week

I often make excuses not to serve them to avoid any future problems, with them.
Ron Swanson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 12:04 PM   #302
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,323
Originally Posted by bignickel View Post
It used to be the case that police officers were considered normal citizens like all their fellow citizens ; they got up in the morning , went to work, finish the day, came home and unwound. Their job had some danger in it , just like cabdrivers or firemen had to face , but they did their job and that was it.

I don't know when , but somehow over the last 40 years, many members of the police seemed to develop the attitude that they weren't citizens like the rest of us: that they were more akin to a peacekeeping force keeping their eye on "civilians". The warrior mentality drilled in by countless sessions of warrior training (that one guy alluded to earlier in this or another thread), demanding compliance instead of keeping the peace, etc
....

That goes back to the development that police forces give high priority to hiring returning military veterans. They might be a bargain, in that they are young, healthy, trainable and able to follow orders. But they have had that "us vs. them," "kill or be killed" mentality deeply instilled, and they demonstrate it. The average cop also has less formal education than, say, a barista at Starbucks, even as we ask him to apply complex legal principles and make life-or-death decisions in an instant.

And this is the result:
https://newrepublic.com/article/1416...ior-philosophy
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...ilitarization/
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 12:05 PM   #303
Ron Swanson
Illuminator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,421
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
You're pretty desperate to imagine that this woman could possibly have done anything to justify being killed.
You are the only one using the term justified .. we are are simply speculating at possible scenarios leading up to her untimely demise.
Ron Swanson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 12:06 PM   #304
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,323
Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
OK ... I should have sorted thru the thread

.. but yes I agreed just another possibility, I have shop downtown in small city and there are lots of really crazy people in here every week

I often make excuses not to serve them to avoid any future problems, with them.
And yet you, an untrained, presumably unarmed civilian, are able to control the situation without killing anybody. We should ask no less of our law enforcement officers.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 12:12 PM   #305
jeffas69
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 434
Originally Posted by bignickel View Post
It used to be the case that police officers were considered normal citizens like all their fellow citizens ; they got up in the morning , went to work, finish the day, came home and unwound. Their job had some danger in it , just like cabdrivers or firemen had to face , but they did their job and that was it.

I don't know when , but somehow over the last 40 years, many members of the police seemed to develop the attitude that they weren't citizens like the rest of us: that they were more akin to a peacekeeping force keeping their eye on "civilians". The warrior mentality drilled in by countless sessions of warrior training (that one guy alluded to earlier in this or another thread), demanding compliance instead of keeping the peace, etc

Maybe Blade Runner was off about the flying cars (thank goodness) but it seems right on the money about this : "if you're not cop, you're little people."
IMHO you have it wrong. It is the general attitude of the civilian population towards the police that has been growing sour. I don't think police have changed all that much. If they have it may be a response to the civilian attitude especially in high crime areas. If the trend continues, I believe police interaction with the public will worsen as you will not get the best and the brightest going forward. Who the hell would want to become a cop in this climate if you have other options? Risk going to prison with all the thugs that hate me, for a single mistake, nah I think I'll just go into heating and air conditioning.
jeffas69 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 12:13 PM   #306
Ron Swanson
Illuminator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,421
Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Y .. drawing a weapon is not really a good way to calm someone down ...
I'd find my self getting extremely calm (like I turned to salt) if a police officer pointed a firearm at me
Ron Swanson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 12:16 PM   #307
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,367
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
And yet you, an untrained, presumably unarmed civilian, are able to control the situation without killing anybody. We should ask no less of our law enforcement officers.
It's not uncommon for civilians, in certain situations, to hear firecrackers and think they are gunshots and start running. They also sometimes hear gunshots and think firecrackers instead.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 12:19 PM   #308
Ron Swanson
Illuminator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,421
Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Actually, as soon as they leave the station the cameras should be on and officers should be removed from the force for starters if they are turned off at any time while they are away from the station - especially if they are involved with a suspect or other person during that time!!!
That sounds most logical from a policy angle, say with a 1 or 2 hour loop if memory was short?

.. BUT they'd probably have to carry around a 4 pound battery to make them last a 12 hour shift .. charging on the go would make it more likely they got left in the car in an emergency or ripped off their catch if it was a wire charger etc.

I think we WILL see your idea implemented as (battery and other) technology advances of course, maybe even a remote upload (from wifi in the cruiser?) so recordings cannot be erased
Ron Swanson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 12:23 PM   #309
turingtest
Mistral, mistral wind...
 
turingtest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,808
Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
...

We know everything we need to know to know he shouldn't have been here. The color of his skin isn't the reason.
Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
It doesn't matter. Refugee is just a euphemism for 'worthless non-White with no money or skills who will never assimilate to our way of life' anyway.
CH, you're a real piece of work, you are.
__________________
I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV;
I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems
Deep Purple- "The Aviator"

Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King
turingtest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 12:27 PM   #310
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,323
Originally Posted by jeffas69 View Post
IMHO you have it wrong. It is the general attitude of the civilian population towards the police that has been growing sour. I don't think police have changed all that much. If they have it may be a response to the civilian attitude especially in high crime areas. If the trend continues, I believe police interaction with the public will worsen as you will not get the best and the brightest going forward. Who the hell would want to become a cop in this climate if you have other options? Risk going to prison with all the thugs that hate me, for a single mistake, nah I think I'll just go into heating and air conditioning.

See the links I posted. Police attitudes have changed. And if you want to argue that people only become cops because they're not smart enough or educated enough to do anything else, you're not really doing them any favors.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 12:30 PM   #311
Ron Swanson
Illuminator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,421
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
And yet you, an untrained, presumably unarmed civilian, are able to control the situation without killing anybody. We should ask no less of our law enforcement officers.
This is a good point ... ongoing classes and skit type excersize, simulating and instructing how to deal with mentally challenged and psychotic individuals (at least as frequently as firearm practice) should be mandatory
Ron Swanson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 12:32 PM   #312
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,367
Transcripts of calls to police...

Quote:
911 call at 11:27:02 p.m.

Operator: 911, what's the address of the emergency?

Caller: Hi, I'm, I can hear someone out the back and I, I'm not sure if she's having sex or being raped.

Operator: Give me the address.

Caller: (Redacted address) Washburn Avenue South.

Operator: Washburn Avenue South. You said it's behind (inaudible)?

Caller: And there's a (inaudible) out the back, yup, yup. And I think she just yelled out "help," but it's difficult the sound has been going on for a while, but I think, I don't think she's enjoying it. I think it's, I don't know.

Operator: Okay, well I already got a call started and help on the way. Uh, you can't see anything, you're just hearing a female screaming then, is that what you're saying?

Caller: Yeah. It sounds like sex noises, but it's been going on for a while and I think she tried to say help and it sounds distressed.

Operator: Okay, I've already got an officer on the way. What is your name?

Caller: Justine.

Operator: Justine, what's your last name?

Caller: Justine.

Operator: Justine.

Caller: Yeah.

Operator: And a phone number?

Caller: (Redacted)

Operator: Okay, we've already got help on the way. If anything changes before we get there just give us a call right back, but officers should be there soon.

Caller: Thanks.

Operator: Okay, not a problem.

Quote:
911 call at 11:35:23 p.m.

Operator: 911, what is the address of the emergency?

Caller: Hi, I just reported one, but no one's here and was wondering if they got the address wrong.

Operator: What's the address?

Caller: (Redacted) Washburn Avenue South. It supposed to be Washburn Avenue South.

Operator: Are you Justine?

Caller: Yeah, (inaudible).

Operator: You're hearing a female screaming?

Caller: Yes, along behind the house.

Operator: Yup, officers are on the way there.

Caller: Thank you.

Operator: You're welcome, bye.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/19/us/jus...lis/index.html
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 12:33 PM   #313
Toke
Godless Socialist
 
Toke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Denmark
Posts: 8,170
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
See the links I posted. Police attitudes have changed. And if you want to argue that people only become cops because they're not smart enough or educated enough to do anything else, you're not really doing them any favors.
Those links are scary.
The description of police to be trained as an occupation force on guard for insurgents kind of neglects to mention how badly the forceful approach backfired in Iraq and Afganistan.
__________________
From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. -K. Marx.

Toke is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 12:33 PM   #314
Ron Swanson
Illuminator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,421
Deleted after seeing 911 transcript.

Last edited by Ron Swanson; 19th July 2017 at 12:37 PM.
Ron Swanson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 12:45 PM   #315
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 24,357
Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Another snippet revealed (which may or may not be true). Report says he fired through the open door. I can now see how, if she was on the same level and close, she could be hit in the abdomen.

<snip>

Can you link to that? The official police statement (which I quoted upthread) said it was through the open window.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 12:47 PM   #316
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,323
Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
Deleted after seeing 911 transcript.

So the police responding to the call are expecting to find either a woman complainant or a woman victim, and they shoot the first woman they see the instant they see her? Great work!
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 12:50 PM   #317
jeffas69
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 434
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
See the links I posted. Police attitudes have changed.
See my 4th sentence.

Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
And if you want to argue that people only become cops because they're not smart enough or educated enough to do anything else, you're not really doing them any favors.
I am most certainly not arguing that. I believe that most join the force in order to serve the public. But if the attitudes toward the police continue in the direction they are going that will also change. The desire to serve will be over-ridden by the risk.
jeffas69 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 12:50 PM   #318
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 24,357
Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Anyone who acts distraught or upset after calling the cops to report a prowler in the middle of the night can be considered a credible threat and deserves to be gunned down on the spot?

Because there was a loud noise somewhere?
Sure ... if you think that's best

What is the purpose of this stupid, irrelevant comment.

It obviously has nothing to do with what I think is best.

It is what happened.

And what some people seem to be proposing as a defense for the indefensible.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 12:51 PM   #319
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 24,443
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And remember you see someone acting strange and you don't want them to die, don't call the cops. They are totally incapable of dealing with emotionally disturbed people without shooting them.
Evidently they are incapable of even dealing with you when you've called them after somebody has attacked you.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2017, 12:53 PM   #320
Ron Swanson
Illuminator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,421
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
So the police responding to the call are expecting to find either a woman complainant or a woman victim, and they shoot the first woman they see the instant they see her? Great work!
I deleted my orig. post because (after seeing 911 transcript) as it's not unreasonable for a woman to come to another woman's aid, whom might be getting raped ... my original post said she should stay inside .. (which in hindsight would have been way better of course) ...but frankly I can see her trying to scare off a sexual attacker.

And again your sarcasm is misplaced, and not helping anything ... no-one is trying to say it was great police work.
Ron Swanson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:07 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.