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Old 2nd May 2019, 11:48 AM   #41
ponderingturtle
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
I seem to have missed the first nazi getting egged.
I think it is referencing that Australian politician who got egged for blaming Muslims for being in New Zealand and hence being too tempting to white people to attack.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 11:51 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Um they generally are not taken seriously though. It is far easier to see the police ignoring right wing threats against people and saying there is nothing they can do than it is to see them doing anything. I mean look at the threats against Ilhan Omar after Trumps stoking of the hate and hence threats against her.
*Ignoring right wing, left wing, centrist, non-political, etc threats against people
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Old 2nd May 2019, 12:28 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Does anyone know what the flag is?

As just from that video I can't see any reference to what he is doing, let alone whether he is just a boring nationalist, uber nationalist, or stretching to Nazi.

It just looks red

Was it a swastika?
What about the swastika he carries in a chain around his neck?

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Old 2nd May 2019, 01:28 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Anyway, my own take is that debating people like this is better than smacking people with eggs and getting into a fight. I think the person who starts doing that looks like the person losing the argument, and there is no reason to lose an argument to a Nazi.
Here we go again. There's this inexplicable hubris on the part of intelligent people, especially in forums like this, that debate is this magical meta-chessboard where the finest ideas will always triumph over the weakest and poorest through the Power of Logic and Reason and...Rainbows (I guess?).

There's no reason to have a debate with a Nazi, and this longer version of the video shows exactly why: before the egging, the person with the camera and other bystanders spend several minutes asking questions and the Nazi only ever replies with sarcasm, slogans, and additional assertions that he never intends to back up. Despite Nazis claims that their opponents should "debate them" instead of, say, punching or egging them, when the chips are down Nazis don't actually, you know, debate. They eagerly take advantage of the stage a "debate" provides in order to recite their mantras and give their message exposure, but they are never interested in actually arguing or supporting anything they say. You can hammer at them like Thor with the most logically sound arguments in the history of mankind and it's pointless, because they don't care about your stronger arguments; all they care about is ignoring you and unwaveringly chanting their ideological principles over and over, after which they will proclaim victory. And you can interject "well fine, but everybody watching will see that your arguments are stronger", but that's not true either. It never has been. In the eyes of audiences, audacity and consistent confidence in one's assertions win debates, not logical arguments and evidence.

So nah, just egg them and get it over with.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 01:45 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Here we go again. There's this inexplicable hubris on the part of intelligent people, especially in forums like this, that debate is this magical meta-chessboard where the finest ideas will always triumph over the weakest and poorest through the Power of Logic and Reason and...Rainbows (I guess?).

There's no reason to have a debate with a Nazi, and this longer version of the video shows exactly why: before the egging, the person with the camera and other bystanders spend several minutes asking questions and the Nazi only ever replies with sarcasm, slogans, and additional assertions that he never intends to back up. Despite Nazis claims that their opponents should "debate them" instead of, say, punching or egging them, when the chips are down Nazis don't actually, you know, debate. They eagerly take advantage of the stage a "debate" provides in order to recite their mantras and give their message exposure, but they are never interested in actually arguing or supporting anything they say. You can hammer at them like Thor with the most logically sound arguments in the history of mankind and it's pointless, because they don't care about your stronger arguments; all they care about is ignoring you and unwaveringly chanting their ideological principles over and over, after which they will proclaim victory. And you can interject "well fine, but everybody watching will see that your arguments are stronger", but that's not true either. It never has been. In the eyes of audiences, audacity and consistent confidence in one's assertions win debates, not logical arguments and evidence.

So nah, just egg them and get it over with.
Being that these forums are intended for intelligent discussions and scientific skepticism, I would be happy to read any studies you could provide which support the assertion that dehumanization is the most effective method of de-radicalization of extremists.

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Old 2nd May 2019, 01:56 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Does anyone know what the flag is?

As just from that video I can't see any reference to what he is doing, let alone whether he is just a boring nationalist, uber nationalist, or stretching to Nazi.

It just looks red

Was it a swastika?
The symbol on the flag is a standard Nazi eagle, but with the typical wreathed swastika replaced by a round symbol called a "sonnenrad" - an ancient Norse symbol that was also invoked occasionally by Nazi Germany in order to reinforce the idea of connection with the "original white race". It has enjoyed a late resurgent popularity among white supremacists/neo-nazis who want to emphasize the same idea.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 01:58 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys View Post
Being that these forums are intended for intelligent discussions and scientific skepticism, I would be happy to read any studies you could provide which support the assertion that dehumanization is the most effective method of de-radicalization of extremists.
Throwing an egg at someone is ridicule, not dehumanization. Nazis are all too human. They represent a deep darkness of which only humanity is thus far known to be capable.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 02:02 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Here we go again. There's this inexplicable hubris on the part of intelligent people, especially in forums like this, that debate is this magical meta-chessboard where the finest ideas will always triumph over the weakest and poorest through the Power of Logic and Reason and...Rainbows (I guess?).

There's no reason to have a debate with a Nazi, and this longer version of the video shows exactly why: before the egging, the person with the camera and other bystanders spend several minutes asking questions and the Nazi only ever replies with sarcasm, slogans, and additional assertions that he never intends to back up. Despite Nazis claims that their opponents should "debate them" instead of, say, punching or egging them, when the chips are down Nazis don't actually, you know, debate. They eagerly take advantage of the stage a "debate" provides in order to recite their mantras and give their message exposure, but they are never interested in actually arguing or supporting anything they say. You can hammer at them like Thor with the most logically sound arguments in the history of mankind and it's pointless, because they don't care about your stronger arguments; all they care about is ignoring you and unwaveringly chanting their ideological principles over and over, after which they will proclaim victory. And you can interject "well fine, but everybody watching will see that your arguments are stronger", but that's not true either. It never has been. In the eyes of audiences, audacity and consistent confidence in one's assertions win debates, not logical arguments and evidence.

So nah, just egg them and get it over with.
By your logic there should be no ex white supremacists.

Many millions of dollars worth of tattoo cover ups and removal alone prove you wrong.

What you are really saying is you don't want to waste effort trying to be that force that changes them and neither should others. I can only speculate as to your reasons why, but in general I find its because someone just wants an enemy. Someone they can dehumanize and attack, because they feel they or people they love and support have been dehumanized and attacked.

From where I'm standing, the world has enough of that. I get to see every loud idiot talking head tell me who I should treat like scum.

And much like religion it comes down to the following principle. Either

A. All these people are right.

B. One of these people is right.

C. The premise behind very statements they are making are the cause of the majority of issues. And therefore they are all wrong.

A we can discount right off the bat as it is logically impossible.

B is not true as the logic (or lack thereof) for why I should treat the groups poorly at its base is the same "they want to harm us and they are powerful". With evidence that is only considered a fact by those wanting to believe already.

Leaving C as the only reasonable option. And leaving me to reject anyone telling me that maybe there is one special group that shouldn't enjoy the same rights I do. Historically anyone saying that has been a complete ******* at best and a monster at worst.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 02:06 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Throwing an egg at someone is ridicule, not dehumanization. Nazis are all too human. They represent a deep darkness of which only humanity is thus far known to be capable.
Why not change the law to exclude hitting someone with an egg as a crime? If it is just ridicule why not put it on the table for everyone to use? But I'm guessing you wouldn't be okay with a gay pride parade being pelted, or a BLM March.

This is why people hate us, we spend all day thinking up rules we don't have to follow.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 02:18 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
By your logic there should be no ex white supremacists.

Many millions of dollars worth of tattoo cover ups and removal alone prove you wrong.
No, this line of reasoning is a non sequitur and it doesn't involve "my logic" whatsoever. I have read the personal stories of some ex-white supremacists, and to the best of my recollection not a single one of them turned away from nazism because s/he lost a one-on-one debate with an anti-nazi on the street. Most of these stories involve self-reflection and coming to a realization about how hateful and hurtful their beliefs or the people they hung out with were. Or, they sought information on their own and found web articles (not debates) where nazi arguments were destroyed. Or they met individuals their ideology told them they should hate and consider unintelligent and they were unable to do either. Or because some of their colleagues began making plans for actual terroristic or murderous acts and they became disillusioned. Or they were only in the group for the sense of community, and left it when they found a less-toxic community to fill that need.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 02:21 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
Why not change the law to exclude hitting someone with an egg as a crime? If it is just ridicule why not put it on the table for everyone to use? But I'm guessing you wouldn't be okay with a gay pride parade being pelted, or a BLM March.
What a bizarre line of reasoning.

Of course nobody wants to be pelted with an egg. But I would sure as hell rather see a nazi throwing an egg at someone they disagree with than running them down with a car and killing them. Or legally-carrying an AR-15 into a synagogue and trying to blow all the occupants away. Ad nauseam. How fortunate Nazis are, that all they have to be afraid of is a punch in the face vs. an egg.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 02:29 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
No, this line of reasoning is a non sequitur and it doesn't involve "my logic" whatsoever. I have read the personal stories of some ex-white supremacists, and to the best of my recollection not a single one of them turned away from nazism because s/he lost a one-on-one debate with an anti-nazi on the street. Most of these stories involve self-reflection and coming to a realization about how hateful and hurtful their beliefs or the people they hung out with were. Or, they sought information on their own and found web articles (not debates) where nazi arguments were destroyed. Or they met individuals their ideology told them they should hate and consider unintelligent and they were unable to do either. Or because some of their colleagues began making plans for actual terroristic or murderous acts and they became disillusioned. Or they were only in the group for the sense of community, and left it when they found a less-toxic community to fill that need.
Arguement from ignorance is your rebuttal?

"I havnt seem it personally so it's never happened". Check out support groups for ex and questioning white supremacists ,it exists, it sometimes works, you are uninformed.

Also, when you have to snip 90 percent of a post because the rest would have destroyed your copy paste rebuttal , ya lost.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 02:33 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
What a bizarre line of reasoning.

Of course nobody wants to be pelted with an egg. But I would sure as hell rather see a nazi throwing an egg at someone they disagree with than running them down with a car and killing them. Or legally-carrying an AR-15 into a synagogue and trying to blow all the occupants away. Ad nauseam. How fortunate Nazis are, that all they have to be afraid of is a punch in the face vs. an egg.
You do believe hitting people with eggs should not be a crime then?

**** me, you are ignorant as hell as to what the consequences of that would be. Personally I enjoy being able to go to a pride parade without a rain of produce ruining my day. But in your perfect world that would be considered no different than me being ridiculed.

Good job, way to think it through, and not just be another shining example of making rules you don't have to follow.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 02:36 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Here we go again. There's this inexplicable hubris on the part of intelligent people, especially in forums like this, that debate is this magical meta-chessboard where the finest ideas will always triumph over the weakest and poorest through the Power of Logic and Reason and...Rainbows (I guess?).


So nah, just egg them and get it over with.
I remember the bit in one of Woody Allen's movies where Allen says, at a party,after someone suggests writing a indignent letter to the New Yorker maganzie about a Neo Nazi Demonstration, that hiting them a sockfull of S--t would be a much more appropriate response.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 02:38 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
No, this line of reasoning is a non sequitur and it doesn't involve "my logic" whatsoever. I have read the personal stories of some ex-white supremacists, and to the best of my recollection not a single one of them turned away from nazism because s/he lost a one-on-one debate with an anti-nazi on the street. Who argued that a street debate was all it took?Most of these stories involve self-reflection and coming to a realization about how hateful and hurtful their beliefs or the people they hung out with were. Or, they sought information on their own and found web articles (not debates) where nazi arguments were destroyed. Or they met individuals their ideology told them they should hate and consider unintelligent and they were unable to do either. Or because some of their colleagues began making plans for actual terroristic or murderous acts and they became disillusioned. Or they were only in the group for the sense of community, and left it when they found a less-toxic community to fill that need.
What no egging or other dehumanizing behaviour? So I guess humanity wins.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 03:08 PM   #56
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Fascinating study of the Slippery Slope at work. A few months ago, physical assault was the line not to be crossed. The SJWs are already accepting throwing eggs now. We're ahead of schedule in converts. Just a few more YT vids and a punk slap becomes civil recourse, And it's all downhill from there.

How's that honesty feel guys? Comfy?

There are no Nazis anymore, not in any real numbers. They're just low life white supremacists now. They don't care about gassing gypsies, or any of the Nazi junk. But you're buying into it, and accepting a little more every day. You'll like it on the Dark Side. We have cookies.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 03:22 PM   #57
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If you're okay with cops arresting criminals, then why not allow criminals to arrest cops?

That's the depth of moral analysis some people in this tread are engaging in. If you can't see open neo-nazis and their would-be victims as anything more than "team A" vs "team B," then you might wanna sit this one out.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 03:34 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
If you're okay with cops arresting criminals, then why not allow criminals to arrest cops?

That's the depth of moral analysis some people in this tread are engaging in. If you can't see open neo-nazis and their would-be victims as anything more than "team A" vs "team B," then you might wanna sit this one out.
Key words right there. What crimes have they committed? Which of these crimes aren't already covered by laws currently in place? Which of these laws allows for dehumanizing behaviour by fellow citizens as an appropriate response?
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Old 2nd May 2019, 03:47 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys View Post
Key words right there. What crimes have they committed? Which of these crimes aren't already covered by laws currently in place? Which of these laws allows for dehumanizing behaviour by fellow citizens as an appropriate response?
The issue is moral analysis, not violations of the criminal code. The italicized section was an analogy. I hope that helps.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 04:02 PM   #60
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Meanwhile in the UK Tommy Robinson ( Fascist and advisor to the UKIP leader) got 'Milkshaked' hahaha

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I AGREE
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Old 2nd May 2019, 04:11 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Yes, and it's no yolk.
Yeah, the yolk was on him but he's all white now...
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Old 2nd May 2019, 04:30 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
Arguement from ignorance is your rebuttal?
Against a "just so" assertion with no basis? Why do you think it is somehow on me to disprove your claim?
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Old 2nd May 2019, 04:32 PM   #63
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Let's see if I understand the reasoning here...

Guy murders multiple people in a synagogue or black church, posts neo-nazi manifesto before doing so, carries nazi emblems = Mentally ill lone wolf, can't take anything he says at face value, nazis don't exist anymore he was just playacting 'cause of his mental illness and there are no nazis and this isn't possibly indicative of any wider trend or organized movement because it doesn't exist.

Guy throws an egg at someone displaying nazi emblems and haranguing people on the street with racist rhetoric = OMG Leftists are all violent terrorists censoring our free speech!!1!one!!
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Old 2nd May 2019, 04:35 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Let's see if I understand the reasoning here...

Guy murders multiple people in a synagogue or black church, posts neo-nazi manifesto before doing so, carries nazi emblems = Mentally ill lone wolf, can't take anything he says at face value, nazis don't exist anymore he was just playacting 'cause of his mental illness and there are no nazis and this isn't possibly indicative of any wider trend or organized movement because it doesn't exist.

Guy throws an egg at someone displaying nazi emblems and haranguing people on the street with racist rhetoric = OMG Leftists are all violent terrorists censoring our free speech!!1!one!!
Try again
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Old 2nd May 2019, 04:35 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Let's see if I understand the reasoning here...

Guy murders multiple people in a synagogue or black church, posts neo-nazi manifesto before doing so, carries nazi emblems = Mentally ill lone wolf, can't take anything he says at face value, nazis don't exist anymore he was just playacting 'cause of his mental illness and there are no nazis and this isn't possibly indicative of any wider trend or organized movement because it doesn't exist.

Guy throws an egg at someone displaying nazi emblems and haranguing people on the street with racist rhetoric = OMG Leftists are all violent terrorists censoring our free speech!!1!one!!
You tried
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Old 2nd May 2019, 04:37 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
You do believe hitting people with eggs should not be a crime then?
Not necessarily; just that doing it specifically to a Nazi should be one of those crimes that anti-Nazis shouldn't feel ashamed to have on their record. Like defacing a Confederate statue.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 04:38 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Let's see if I understand the reasoning here...

Guy murders multiple people in a synagogue or black church, posts neo-nazi manifesto before doing so, carries nazi emblems = Mentally ill lone wolf, can't take anything he says at face value, nazis don't exist anymore he was just playacting 'cause of his mental illness and there are no nazis and this isn't possibly indicative of any wider trend or organized movement because it doesn't exist.

Guy throws an egg at someone displaying nazi emblems and haranguing people on the street with racist rhetoric = OMG Leftists are all violent terrorists censoring our free speech!!1!one!!
To be fair, you'll be hard-pressed to find people suggesting the repetition of real massacres while finding people who will at least mildly advocate egg-throwing is pretty easy.

You're still right, of course. Caring much about a white supremacist who gets punched for no lasting harm or another who gets hit with eggs is a weird emotional response if you're not a fellow traveler...


ETA: Nazis are literally the 20th century definition of evil for many. It's really tough to imagine giving a **** what happens to a ******* nazi.

Last edited by Babbylonian; 2nd May 2019 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 04:40 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys View Post
Who argued that a street debate was all it took?
Well that's the only thing I'm talking about substituting with an egging; so if "no street debates" isn't a loss then there shouldn't be a problem...?
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Old 2nd May 2019, 04:40 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Meanwhile in the UK Tommy Robinson ( Fascist and advisor to the UKIP leader) got 'Milkshaked' hahaha

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I AGREE
Now that one way better.

Up front, face to face. Way better than that attack from behind and run away run away run away wuss in New York.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 04:55 PM   #70
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I think you need to watch the video again. The egger laughs in the Nazi's face and then turns and just walks away. The Nazi does a lot of running away a few seconds later though.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 05:01 PM   #71
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A Nazi might have a hidden sword. Or a MAGA guy might. I can't remember if they are the same anyway.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 05:04 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Let's see if I understand the reasoning here...

Guy murders multiple people in a synagogue or black church, posts neo-nazi manifesto before doing so, carries nazi emblems = Mentally ill lone wolf, can't take anything he says at face value, nazis don't exist anymore he was just playacting 'cause of his mental illness and there are no nazis and this isn't possibly indicative of any wider trend or organized movement because it doesn't exist.

Guy throws an egg at someone displaying nazi emblems and haranguing people on the street with racist rhetoric = OMG Leftists are all violent terrorists censoring our free speech!!1!one!!
Seems about right.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 05:07 PM   #73
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The CDC says that raw eggs can have Salmonella, so this is germ warfare against the Nazis.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 05:13 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The CDC says that raw eggs can have Salmonella, so this is germ warfare against the Nazis.
Yikes - my assessment that egging was non-injurious appears to have been a glair-ing oversight!
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Old 2nd May 2019, 05:18 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
So how does this work? Posters tsk tsk punching, but are fine with throwing eggs? Assault is assault, guys. Own your convictions. Unless you are a flaming hypocrite, you would support eggs being thrown by Nazis at you or your loved ones, yes?
I’m not a Nazi and nor are they.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 05:19 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
You tried
You never do.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 05:22 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
So how does this work? Posters tsk tsk punching, but are fine with throwing eggs? Assault is assault, guys.
I tsk-tsk punching because punching causes pain and injury. Egging does not; so I don't have the same problem with it. I don't know why you think this reasoning is inconsistent.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 05:33 PM   #78
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Are we too many generations beyond WW II to remember what these symbols stood for? Have they been reformed and normalised?
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Old 2nd May 2019, 05:45 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Are we too many generations beyond WW II to remember what these symbols stood for? Have they been reformed and normalised?
There is nothing reformative or normal about gassing many millions of Jews.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 05:59 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Are we too many generations beyond WW II to remember what these symbols stood for? Have they been reformed and normalised?
They want us to think so. They want us to think it's simply a "different point of view", equally valid as any other, and that ridiculing them or denying them a chair at the table is every bit as morally wrong as gay-bashing or lynching minorities.
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