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Tags homophobia incidents , London incidents

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Old 8th June 2019, 11:26 PM   #161
cullennz
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
lol?

This is just a small example of an almost innate toxic male entitlement.

What they need is a punch to the face and some time to heal behind bars.
If it turns out that what has been said by them is what happened I agree

But this doesn't make any difference to my point

But by all means blame men for a bunch of jerk teenagers, if it is how you get yourself through life
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Old 8th June 2019, 11:30 PM   #162
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Should add that if you would like to get into a bunch of nasty girls v nasty boys anecdotal dance off I have plenty of examples of gangs of teenage girls doing nasty violent thuggish things
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Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 8th June 2019, 11:31 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
If it turns out that what has been said by them is what happened I agree

But this doesn't make any difference to my point

But by all means blame men for a bunch of jerk teenagers, if it is how you get yourself through life
It's not, but...

It's not an uncommon thing to see around the world. The theme is the same. The women and eyewitnesses first reported a bunch of men did it. Then we find out these are slightly smaller men. Okay? Does it really change the issue much besides perhaps not jailing them with mature men?
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Old 8th June 2019, 11:35 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
It's not, but...

It's not an uncommon thing to see around the world. The theme is the same. The women and eyewitnesses first reported a bunch of men did it. Then we find out these are slightly smaller men. Okay? Does it really change the issue much besides perhaps not jailing them with mature men?
Never said it did

I just said gangs of people trying to force lgbt people to make out or get beaten is kind of a one off.
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Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 8th June 2019, 11:37 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Oh sod all the way off with that "Schrodinger's *******" argument.

There's more to satire and parody then just being an inappropriate troll and declaring victory when people are annoyed by it.

Again when someone takes a crap in the salad bar he's not "winning" when people get upset over it.
Here's how I read Cain's post: he is making fun of the kind of people who make the sort of comment that he made. You can tell he's making fun of them because A) His comment was funnier than the sorts of comments he's parodying and B) From experience with the posts he's made in the past. It's similar to the way that Steven Colbert's character on the Colbert Report parodied the sorts of people who would say the sorts of things that he was saying.

If Cain is trolling anyone, it's not you.

Now, that's just how I read his comment. If you are reading it in a different way, such that you think he's trying to get a rise out of you by saying outrageous things (rather than making fun of the sort of people who earnestly say such things), then I can see why you'd have a problem with his comment.

But I hope you can see the difference between those two things. For the sake of clarity, then, can you confirm whether you see him as engaging in the former (my first paragraph) or the latter (my last paragraph)?
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Old 8th June 2019, 11:46 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Never said it did



I just said gangs of people trying to force lgbt people to make out or get beaten is kind of a one off.
Yeah. Not just beaten. Murdered used to be a regular night of fun.
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Old 8th June 2019, 11:50 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Never said it did

I just said gangs of people trying to force lgbt people to make out or get beaten is kind of a one off.
I don't think the gangs beating LGBT people cause they wouldn't make out for them is the troubling pattern in particular.
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Old 9th June 2019, 12:04 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Tbf While I think we should go with the womens version, this is the bit that sounds extremely odd
I'm baffled - what about this sounds extremely odd?
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Old 9th June 2019, 12:27 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
I'm baffled - what about this sounds extremely odd?
It doesn't fit in to his world view of straight men being the most persecuted group in the history of everything.

You know, because blue-haired SJW feminazis keep fabricating these sort of situations in their effort to gain total world domination.
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Old 9th June 2019, 12:40 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Some direct quotes...

"They got up out of their seats and walked over to where we were and started very aggressively harassing us. One of them stayed a couple of rows behind and was throwing coins at us."

"We tried to make them go away, but they didn't. They started throwing us coins. The next thing I know is that Chris is in the middle of the bus and they are punching her. I immediately went there just by impulse, I didn't think about it, and I tried to pull her out of there. So they started punching me, I don't remember if I was trying to get her out, or I punched somebody – I really don't."
In another thread, we got into this long protracted debate over whether throwing something like an egg or a liquid beverage at someone constituted violence. If that is the case, then it looks like the physical violence in this incident would've been started by the four assailants, throwing coins (i.e., hard metal objects) at the two women.
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Old 9th June 2019, 12:57 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Porn didn't cause this. Four individuals did.

Also, there are some women who like to view porn (it isn't solely "men's entertainment" if there are women who watch it too). In the most patriarchal religiously conservative, anti-woman societies, like Saudi Arabia, porn is illegal. If porn caused violence against women, you would think it would go up after the internet was invented, but it hasn't.
Saudi Arabia is saturated with rape propaganda. In the pornified West, young women are now routinely expected to perform acts that their teenage boyfriends see in porn (e.g anal sex). Prom expresses and reinforces a pre-existing narrative that women exist for men's pleasure.

"It’s two o’clock in the morning and I am on second floor of the 98 bus from Oxford Circus to Kilburn. My girlfriend, Catherine is in the seat next to me and I have my arm around her.

The bus pulls up to a stop and a group of men get on, they climb the stairs and join us on the top deck, shouting and laughing as they go. Instinct would tell us they’re drunk, eyes and ears tell us they’re lairy.

Upon their arrival, Catherine shrugs off my arm. She doesn’t have to explain why, we both know it’s safer this way.

Last week Melania Geymonat and her girlfriend Chris were doing exactly the same thing, making their way home on a London night bus. A group of men got on and subjected them to a barrage of harassment, including trying to get the two women to kiss for their entertainment. After refusing to kiss each other both women were beaten, robbed and left covered in blood.

What terrifies me most is that when I read about this assault on two gay women, down the road from my house in the biggest, most multicultural city in the UK, I wasn’t even shocked. I was completely unsurprised by what had happened because for as long as I have been publicly dating women I have had experience of men behaving as though it is entirely for them.

From guys I considered friends asking for a threesome, to men in bars asking if I’ll get with their girlfriend because it ‘turns them on’, or random men in clubs filming us dancing in case we kiss."

https://metro.co.uk/2019/06/08/how-c...tacked-9872111
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Old 9th June 2019, 01:29 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Tbf While I think we should go with the womens version, this is the bit that sounds extremely odd
What's the latitude of NZ again? I don't know if you know this or not, but around the 30th of May the sky is turning a beautiful (and romantic) emerald green at 2:30 am London time.
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Old 9th June 2019, 01:38 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
What's the latitude of NZ again? I don't know if you know this or not, but around the 30th of May the sky is turning a beautiful (and romantic) emerald green at 2:30 am London time.
Apparently you could see the aurora Australis from Dunedin a few weeks ago

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-z...australis.html
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Old 9th June 2019, 06:56 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Saudi Arabia is saturated with rape propaganda. In the pornified West, young women are now routinely expected to perform acts that their teenage boyfriends see in porn (e.g anal sex). Prom expresses and reinforces a pre-existing narrative that women exist for men's pleasure.

"It’s two o’clock in the morning and I am on second floor of the 98 bus from Oxford Circus to Kilburn. My girlfriend, Catherine is in the seat next to me and I have my arm around her.

The bus pulls up to a stop and a group of men get on, they climb the stairs and join us on the top deck, shouting and laughing as they go. Instinct would tell us they’re drunk, eyes and ears tell us they’re lairy.

Upon their arrival, Catherine shrugs off my arm. She doesn’t have to explain why, we both know it’s safer this way.

Last week Melania Geymonat and her girlfriend Chris were doing exactly the same thing, making their way home on a London night bus. A group of men got on and subjected them to a barrage of harassment, including trying to get the two women to kiss for their entertainment. After refusing to kiss each other both women were beaten, robbed and left covered in blood.

What terrifies me most is that when I read about this assault on two gay women, down the road from my house in the biggest, most multicultural city in the UK, I wasn’t even shocked. I was completely unsurprised by what had happened because for as long as I have been publicly dating women I have had experience of men behaving as though it is entirely for them.

From guys I considered friends asking for a threesome, to men in bars asking if I’ll get with their girlfriend because it ‘turns them on’, or random men in clubs filming us dancing in case we kiss."

https://metro.co.uk/2019/06/08/how-c...tacked-9872111
A point-of-no-return caused by the saturation of our culture with porn via the internet was reached years ago. Most children in most first-world counties have been exposed to it at least fleetingly by age SEVEN, and a large majority are "consumers" by adolescence.

It's far too late to be trying to regulate it (even if the will and wherewithall existed, much more important is the censoring evil nazis), and anyway, 'progressives' long ago bought into the cultural maxist/Freudian ethos that Westerners are "neurotic", if not mentally ill because of their historically "repressive" attitudes to "sexuality" (meaning "sex acts"). Completely unfettered indulgence ("free love") was, therefore, the remedy prescribed, and it would seem to follow that the saturation of our media with pornographic material is for the best.
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Old 9th June 2019, 07:31 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by BBC News
They have been bailed to a date in July and detectives are not looking for anyone else, Scotland Yard said.
Not sure what this means. Are the kids bailed out and must return to court in July?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-48566800
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Old 9th June 2019, 07:58 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
In another thread, we got into this long protracted debate over whether throwing something like an egg or a liquid beverage at someone constituted violence. If that is the case, then it looks like the physical violence in this incident would've been started by the four assailants, throwing coins (i.e., hard metal objects) at the two women.
Myself, I would hesitate to use the term violence for eggs, milkshakes or coin tossing.

We don't know if the intent of the coin tossing was to hit the women, or if that actually happened anyway. Earlier I speculated that the coins possibly were intended to be symbolic of paying them to kiss. In that case, hitting them with the coins might not be the goal. We just don't know, and the women don't say that they were hit by coins.

But anyway, I guess a well-aimed larger coin to the face might cause pain/injury. These two don't mention that happening.

Coins would hit and bounce off and that's the end of it. Eggs and milkshakes are different because your body and clothing gets soaked with the liquid. This remains on you until you do something about it. The clothing will require washing and some kinds of clothing might require professional and more expensive cleaning.

I would regard the egg and milkshake dousing more as a form of "personal vandalism" than violence. Your body and clothing are vandalized and require cleaning to be brought back to normal. You also can't proceed with your day without promptly dealing with the cleaning. Nothing like that happens with coin tossing. No personal vandalism occurs with a coin tossing.

You seem to be bringing this up because you seem to be concerned with the idea of "who started the actual physical violence". I would say that we don't know for sure, even though I know that coins were tossed. I would suspect that the police don't really care. Lawyers might want to pick things apart with tweezers and magnifying lenses.
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Old 9th June 2019, 09:17 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
You seem to be bringing this up because you seem to be concerned with the idea of "who started the actual physical violence".
No; I brought this up because you seem to be concerned with the idea of "who started the physical violence". You've spent a number of posts in this thread maintaining the possibility that the victims initiated the violence, or at the very least attempting to rebut others' arguments for why that possibility is negligible.
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Old 9th June 2019, 12:01 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
Heh. The basic problem is that London is becoming more and more lawless, provably. This is generally attributed (correctly, IMO) to under-funding and under-manning od the police over the past few years. My suspicion is that it's deliberate, 'problem-reaction-solution'. Coming soon - Privatisation probably involving G4S or Crapita. ETA>> this may be presented as "radical restructuring".
FTFY
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Old 9th June 2019, 12:09 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Why? The very reason we have night buses in London is because people still need to get from A to B, even at night. Services are frequent so that you don't have to wait too long, but that means that often there are only a few people on each one, depending on where on the route the vehicle is. When Mrs Analyst still went clubbing, the night bus we got back from central London terminates two minutes walk from the house, and often we'd be the only people on it for the last few stops.
I agree, although my experience is from the 90s. If your interests were on the alternative side you could often find yourself traveling back on a mid week, mostly empty night bus in the small hours.
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Old 9th June 2019, 11:11 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Not sure what this means. Are the kids bailed out and must return to court in July?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-48566800
That's what it sounds like. After they were questioned.
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Old 9th June 2019, 11:19 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Myself, I would hesitate to use the term violence for eggs, milkshakes or coin tossing.

We don't know if the intent of the coin tossing was to hit the women, or if that actually happened anyway. Earlier I speculated that the coins possibly were intended to be symbolic of paying them to kiss. In that case, hitting them with the coins might not be the goal. We just don't know, and the women don't say that they were hit by coins.
Throwing any object at a person (a stranger) seems like a very provocative act to say the least. The sort of act that is likely to lead to violence at least.
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Old 10th June 2019, 12:41 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Not sure what this means. Are the kids bailed out and must return to court in July?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-48566800
Yes, they're out, but no, they haven't got a court date. It's still in the hands of the police.
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Old 10th June 2019, 02:30 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I've seen many Cain posts and thought they were funny. This one wasn't.
Jokes don't cease to be jokes when they're not funny.
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Old 10th June 2019, 06:23 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Well if his post was a joke of some sort, then it was a joke in very poor taste.
Think of Cain as the Colbert Report. It is a poe mocking the assertions that right wing posters make seriously.
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Old 10th June 2019, 06:28 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
Because an attack like this is thankfully rare?
Yea normally they are limited to harassment and less serious assaults, and can safely be ignored.
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Old 10th June 2019, 06:31 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
Yup its everything elses fault except for the perps.
A common part of the patriarchy is that women exist for men. Hence why men get mad at finding out they were hitting on a trans woman because her existence is for them to hit on and their failure to identify her as trans early enough is her fault.

This is about far more than porn, it is a primary factor in how traditional society has men and women interact. Like how teen girls have to change their clothes because their male teachers can not stop leering at them and they prove a distraction.
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Old 10th June 2019, 06:37 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Never said it did

I just said gangs of people trying to force lgbt people to make out or get beaten is kind of a one off.
No this is likely to be something that is only targeted at women in a relationship with other women, due to the nature of male entitlement. The harassment and assaults on other groups are of a different nature.
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Old 10th June 2019, 06:57 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
What terrifies me most is that when I read about this assault on two gay women, down the road from my house in the biggest, most multicultural city in the UK, I wasn’t even shocked.
Were you under the mistaken belief that multiculturalism might serve as a kind of protection against such barbarity?
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Old 10th June 2019, 06:58 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
But I hope you can see the difference between those two things. For the sake of clarity, then, can you confirm whether you see him as engaging in the former (my first paragraph) or the latter (my last paragraph)?
I'm saying you can't be an a-hole ironically, and you certainly can't be an a-hole ironically ironically, and you certainly, certainly can't do it just be acting functionally indistinguishable from an a-hole and having other people tack on the "LOL joking" for you.

But this rabbit hole is deep enough, I'll drop my end of the rope to mix the metaphor.
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Old 10th June 2019, 07:13 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
<snip>

From what I read there they did instigate some kind of confrontation but it hardly justifies the violence they got back.

You think that the two women provoked this gang of chavs into demanding that they kiss each other?
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Old 10th June 2019, 07:16 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
You think that the two women provoked this gang of chavs into demanding that they kiss each other?
Well they kissed each other, that is clear provocation and hence the demands that they kiss again for the amusement of the gang is quite justified. And so refusing this then provoked them further.

Once you take a properly male focused view of the world it is easy to see how they caused this by their existence.
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Old 10th June 2019, 07:24 AM   #192
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Are these the same kind of male yobs who could, if certain requests/demands/trends are accepted, 'self identify' as women for a day in order to pull stunts in the women's changing room at the pool or gym? If so, it's easy to understand why women resist this unisex trend.
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Old 10th June 2019, 07:27 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
You think that the two women provoked this gang of chavs into demanding that they kiss each other?
If you follow that strand of the thread you'd see he was referring to the slight chance that one of the women may have thrown the first punch not that they provoked the group of lads/men.
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Old 10th June 2019, 07:28 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Are these the same kind of male yobs who could, if certain requests/demands/trends are accepted, 'self identify' as women for a day in order to pull stunts in the women's changing room at the pool or gym? If so, it's easy to understand why women resist this unisex trend.
How are we meant to know this?
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Old 10th June 2019, 07:40 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
How are we meant to know this?
It was my attempt at irony. I'll bet good money that drunken yobs will pull such stunts.
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Old 10th June 2019, 08:06 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Are these the same kind of male yobs who could, if certain requests/demands/trends are accepted, 'self identify' as women for a day in order to pull stunts in the women's changing room at the pool or gym? If so, it's easy to understand why women resist this unisex trend.
Is there something stopping them from "pulling stunts" now?

Those emblems on the doors are not warding runes, you know.
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Old 10th June 2019, 08:30 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
It was my attempt at irony. I'll bet good money that drunken yobs will pull such stunts.
And be treated the same way they always have been. Unless they become foreign secretary or justice minister.
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Old 10th June 2019, 08:34 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Is there something stopping them from "pulling stunts" now?

Those emblems on the doors are not warding runes, you know.
Being challenged by customers and the staff? Security being called? Simply because men have been observed entering the changing room?
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Old 10th June 2019, 08:39 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Being challenged by customers and the staff? Security being called? Simply because men have been observed entering the changing room?
No, because yobs as you describe them are being yobs. Whether in a private or public space in the UK your gender/sex/whatever doesn't protect you from the consequences of acting yobbishly only wealth can do that.
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Old 10th June 2019, 08:43 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
It was my attempt at irony. I'll bet good money that drunken yobs will pull such stunts.
I think that is a different group of entitled men.

This is a group of 15-18 year olds. Young men who have so far failed to grow the hell up, have no idea how to behave in a civilised manner and certainly have no idea how to behave themselves while drunk.

Having reached adolescence, they transition clumsily from an age where they were uninterested in girls and everything was about status among other boys and showing no weakness and picking on and bullying anyone who did, they suddenly find they are interested in girls but have no idea how to talk to them or treat anyone any differently or any better than the other boys they contend with for status.
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