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Old 27th April 2019, 09:14 AM   #41
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Old 28th April 2019, 06:29 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Too many better things to do.

Why waste time on religion, when there's astronomy, microbiology, biology, electricity and electronics, chemistry & physics to play with?
And sociology, anthropology, history, archaeology, psychology - there are many scientific fields that religion touches on.

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Kids will learn more with 5 minutes using a magnet than they would in a lifetime of learning about religion.
They'll learn about people and what makes them tick.

I don't want you to think that I'm trying to tell you how to raise your kids - that's not my place. They're your kids. However, my own kids were raised with an understanding that there are a number of different religions in the world, which are the most popular in our region and in nearby countries, how religion motivates people in different ways, and why billions of people across the world believe in religion. We didn't indoctrinate them into any particular religion - and in fact they are atheists like I am - but they went into the world with an understanding of what religion is and why a lot of people around them think it's very important. And atheists are still in a minority in this country. The number is growing, but the religious still outnumber us by a considerable degree. In raising my kids, I felt that it was important for them to know this as they will encounter and have to interact with religious people all the time.
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Old 1st May 2019, 06:11 AM   #43
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It is the image of a demi-god from the Hindu pantheon. The piece is probably from Nepal or Tibet. He is supposed to be the vahana of Vishnu. Very commonly sold in souvenier shops in these countries
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Old 1st May 2019, 12:32 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
It is the image of a demi-god from the Hindu pantheon. The piece is probably from Nepal or Tibet. He is supposed to be the vahana of Vishnu. Very commonly sold in souvenier shops in these countries
I know you're in India & all that, but there's no question the piece actually came from Bali. It's Garuda, and that identical casting is sold at souvenir shops on Bali.
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Old 1st May 2019, 05:36 PM   #45
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Ok...but I have seen the same piece sold in Nepal. And well I guess that's it then. You have what you wanted. Bye now.
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Old 1st May 2019, 06:33 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
It is the image of a demi-god from the Hindu pantheon. The piece is probably from Nepal or Tibet. He is supposed to be the vahana of Vishnu. Very commonly sold in souvenier shops in these countries
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I know you're in India & all that, but there's no question the piece actually came from Bali. It's Garuda, and that identical casting is sold at souvenir shops on Bali.
Yes, well if you're correct I'm merely wrong.

If I'm correct you will feel the wrath of Cthullu.
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Old 1st May 2019, 06:46 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I know you're in India & all that, but there's no question the piece actually came from Bali. It's Garuda, and that identical casting is sold at souvenir shops on Bali.
There's no doubt that charming new friend of yours is the Indian god Vishnu's pilot-cum-private-jet-rolled-in-one, as Susheel says.

The provenance ultimately is definitely Indian. I've seen roughly similar stauettes myself in curio shops in India.

But of course, ultimate provenance is probably not very helpful here, given that other countries also share that culture. And given Bali's fixation on that partcular god-let, as opposed to its minor standing in India, Bali may appear more likely after all.

My point is, it is difficult to say, merely by looking, and absent other pointers, where this god-let born. Bali probably, sure; but it might well be India. Hell, for all you know it might have a Made-in-China tattoo on it's butt, irrespective of where the shop that sold it is located.
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Old 1st May 2019, 06:55 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Senex View Post
Yes, well if you're correct I'm merely wrong.

If I'm correct you will feel the wrath of Cthullu.
You're saying you're regular with your payment of tithes to the priests of Vishnu? Because if not, you may want to edit that heresy while you still can. Attracting a god's unfavorable notice can attract a whole different level of infraction than merely a yellow card.
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Old 1st May 2019, 08:17 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
You're saying you're regular with your payment of tithes to the priests of Vishnu? Because if not, you may want to edit that heresy while you still can. Attracting a god's unfavorable notice can attract a whole different level of infraction than merely a yellow card.
Did you see the previous posts to my own? Vishnu seems to be a souvenir shop god. They aren't all.
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Old 1st May 2019, 08:35 PM   #50
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Souvenir shop god? I don't follow. Vishnu is as full-on a god, by any standard you may devise to pit god against god on the race course or in the ring, as any other.

But I admire your courage, in not heeding my well-meant heads-up. You're a far braver man than I. I wish you good luck.
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Old 1st May 2019, 09:11 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I know you're in India & all that, but there's no question the piece actually came from Bali. It's Garuda, and that identical casting is sold at souvenir shops on Bali.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/bronze-SCUL...-/233174939339


And this guy on eBay seems to think it's Thai. The pose is definitely the same pose as the Thai Royal Emblem. The pose of the statue, particularly the inturned hands, is precisely the Thai emblem.

Here it is again, with Vishnu on its shoulders!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/11-Incs-Bro...-/303135897136
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Old 1st May 2019, 09:12 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
Souvenir shop god? I don't follow. Vishnu is as full-on a god, by any standard you may devise to pit god against god on the race course or in the ring, as any other.

But I admire your courage, in not heeding my well-meant heads-up. You're a far braver man than I. I wish you good luck.
Luck plays no difference. We're all doomed but because I played ball, this great old one won't extend my demise. I can't say others here will be given that courtesy.
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Old 1st May 2019, 10:19 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
The provenance ultimately is definitely Indian. I've seen roughly similar stauettes myself in curio shops in India.

But of course, ultimate provenance is probably not very helpful here, given that other countries also share that culture. And given Bali's fixation on that partcular god-let, as opposed to its minor standing in India, Bali may appear more likely after all.
You're probably dead right with made in China!

There are some identical ones on sale in Bali, but given the pantheon of gods over that side of the world, it could be Ganesh's girlfriend.

The kids think it's Pazuzu, which is all that matters. I just thought it quite a bizarre thing to find on the beach.

Do people frequently take idols to the beach?

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
And this guy on eBay seems to think it's Thai. The pose is definitely the same pose as the Thai Royal Emblem. The pose of the statue, particularly the inturned hands, is precisely the Thai emblem.
That one's selling for $US150, so I'll take that one on immediately!

Any advance on $150?
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Old 2nd May 2019, 12:34 AM   #54
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The thing is these little statuettes are sold in souvenir shops in most tourist destinations across countries with a Hindu culture. The shops don't usually cater to people who are looking for idols for worship. At least in India people are happy with a framed picture from a calendar to use for worship.
I guess this was bought by a tourist somewhere in South or South East Asia and was packed into the bag and forgotten about. The bag was later taken to a visit on the beach at a later holiday and it accidentally fell out.
Or some kids thought it looked like a really neat action figure, brought it with them to the beach to play and then lost it in the sand.
I don't think there is any nefarious reason for its appearance there.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 01:46 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
I don't think there is any nefarious reason for its appearance there.
I agree and think one of your explanations is pretty likely.

I'm not changing the narrative, though. It looks too good next to the glow-in-the-dark bible.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 03:47 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
The thing is these little statuettes are sold in souvenir shops in most tourist destinations across countries with a Hindu culture. The shops don't usually cater to people who are looking for idols for worship. At least in India people are happy with a framed picture from a calendar to use for worship.
I guess this was bought by a tourist somewhere in South or South East Asia and was packed into the bag and forgotten about. The bag was later taken to a visit on the beach at a later holiday and it accidentally fell out.
Or some kids thought it looked like a really neat action figure, brought it with them to the beach to play and then lost it in the sand.
I don't think there is any nefarious reason for its appearance there.
I do. I most definitely do.
you think it just fell out of that bag 'by accident'? pffff
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Old 2nd May 2019, 04:38 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by TofuFighter View Post
I do. I most definitely do.
you think it just fell out of that bag 'by accident'? pffff
<cue twilight zone music>
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Old 2nd May 2019, 07:03 AM   #58
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So TA, how are your kids doing recently? Talking to imaginary friends? Predicting the future? Interest in ouija boards? Strange markings on their skin?

Better check out Exorcists R Us just in case.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 12:35 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
So TA, how are your kids doing recently? Talking to imaginary friends? Predicting the future? Interest in ouija boards? Strange markings on their skin?
Nothing unusual at all.

The 666 birthmark was always there, and they've been able to use telekineses since kindergarten.

Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Better check out Exorcists R Us just in case.
No need - my daughter's best friend is the daughter of a local fundy pastor who does exorcisms all the time.

They never visit us, oddly enough.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 01:59 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Nothing unusual at all.

The 666 birthmark was always there, and they've been able to use telekineses since kindergarten.
Just normal kids then. Glad to hear it.

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
No need - my daughter's best friend is the daughter of a local fundy pastor who does exorcisms all the time.

They never visit us, oddly enough.
Well at least you know where to go if necessary.

Good luck with your demon. Sure has generated some discussion here. Keep it in a prominent location and you will always have something to talk about with visitors.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 08:18 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
The thing is these little statuettes are sold in souvenir shops in most tourist destinations across countries with a Hindu culture. The shops don't usually cater to people who are looking for idols for worship. At least in India people are happy with a framed picture from a calendar to use for worship.
I guess this was bought by a tourist somewhere in South or South East Asia and was packed into the bag and forgotten about. The bag was later taken to a visit on the beach at a later holiday and it accidentally fell out.
Or some kids thought it looked like a really neat action figure, brought it with them to the beach to play and then lost it in the sand.
I don't think there is any nefarious reason for its appearance there.
Whatever the turquoise paint is on the on TA found, to me indicates that someone may have been trying to replicate one of the costumes Garuda is usually depicted wearing.

I vote for Thai origin. Look at the construction of the wings. They're nearly identical to the three different rows of wings on our most famous depictions of that pose. And the turn of the hands is from Thai dance. But the decisive factor is that a very similar image appears, front and bank, on all our currency. Under the old king the image was right about the middle of the note over the king's portrait, on the new notes, it's on the upper left side.

It's not an official icon. I've never seen them sold in temple shops or government run tourist stalls but the image has been *associated with Thai Royalty for over a hundred years. The Cambodians use a similar pose of the hands in some of their depictions, but the dance motions for both cultures are largely the same. So I won't rule out Cambodian, but the fact that it's the precise pose and even has the same number of rows of feathers would seem to lean to Thai.


*ETA: That should read "formally associated"... the tradition of the Garuda as a symbol for the royal family and the country goes back any number of centuries.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 12:40 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Whatever the turquoise paint is on the on TA found, to me indicates that someone may have been trying to replicate one of the costumes Garuda is usually depicted wearing.
It's not paint - it's salt water corrosion. I don't think it was ever painted; there's no trace on any places you'd find remains if it ever had been.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 03:49 AM   #63
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^^ I was going to say that about the turquoise patina.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 09:08 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
It's not paint - it's salt water corrosion. I don't think it was ever painted; there's no trace on any places you'd find remains if it ever had been.
I've never seen turquoise colored corrosion, but will accept your view as it coincides with the statuettes I located for you.

Have any of the people insisting on India or Balinese taken a look at the Thai royal emblem and particularly the three rows of wing feathers, which are nearly identical on this particular rendering(the statuette).

And, as I said, the wide-open arm/wing pose is exactly the one on our currency.

https://www.bot.or.th/English/Bankno...banknotes.aspx

The image is dimmer on the notes featuring our new king (coronation is this weekend) but if you look at the notes with the previous king (his dad) it's very prominent and easy to see that it's, quite literally, the exact pose.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 09:41 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
And, as I said, the wide-open arm/wing pose is exactly the one on our currency.
I'm going to have to upgrade it to gold. It's obviously very common across SE Asia, because identical ones are being sold in Bali.

Hasn't brought me any luck yet - maybe I'll get the winner of the Kentucky Derby tomorrow!
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Old 3rd May 2019, 10:43 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I'm going to have to upgrade it to gold. It's obviously very common across SE Asia, because identical ones are being sold in Bali.

Hasn't brought me any luck yet - maybe I'll get the winner of the Kentucky Derby tomorrow!
Well, good luck with the ponies; it's a wide open field with two of the prep winners now scratched. The wife says it's not a pray-to-for-benefits statuette but a show-respect-for statuette. They like the god with the elephant snout for bringing good fortune for some reason. But she says for maximum effect, fill a shot glass with Strawberry Fanta and put it in front of the statue's outstretched wings. (Strawberry soda became de rigeur for temple offerings here about twenty-five years ago when the once and ancient king had an operation and after he came out, was seen to make an offering of, yes, Strawberry Fanta to the spirit house at the palace.)
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Old 3rd May 2019, 11:00 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Ok...but I have seen the same piece sold in Nepal. And well I guess that's it then. You have what you wanted. Bye now.
I’mnot sure how this got to be a hissy disagreement between you both.

Vishnu’s vahana is Garuda
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Old 3rd May 2019, 11:04 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
But she says for maximum effect, fill a shot glass with Strawberry Fanta and put it in front of the statue's outstretched wings.
I think I'll stick with the tried and true method of filling a shot glass with Johnny Walker Black Label and drinking it myself.
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Old 4th May 2019, 02:35 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I think I'll stick with the tried and true method of filling a shot glass with Johnny Walker Black Label and drinking it myself.
Yeah, and with that field, take a punt on a couple of the 15-1 shots. It just doesn't feel like a year for the favorites.
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Old 4th May 2019, 07:38 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
I've never seen turquoise colored corrosion, but will accept your view as it coincides with the statuettes I located for you.
Verdigris.
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Old 4th May 2019, 06:43 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Yeah, and with that field, take a punt on a couple of the 15-1 shots. It just doesn't feel like a year for the favorites.
Haha!

As posted, complete with evidence in the racing thread, I had $3 each way on Country House. I was happy with 2nd at $15 a place, but I'll take the $70 win price!

Scotch waiting for you, mate!
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Old 5th May 2019, 04:04 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Haha!

As posted, complete with evidence in the racing thread, I had $3 each way on Country House. I was happy with 2nd at $15 a place, but I'll take the $70 win price!

Scotch waiting for you, mate!
Cheers! I'd have gone for one of those guys who we're still waiting to finish. They haven't re-run the race here, yet, but I found a replay on Youtube when I saw the headline about the DQ. (It was pre-empted as is every broadcast channel with coverage of His Royal Whatchamacallit's coronation. They even cut out the radio stations. We're getting 24/7 of hush-voiced coverage, in Thai, of the coronation..... on all broadcast TV, all FM and AM radio stations....)
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Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
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Old 29th July 2019, 05:37 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Senex View Post

The demon ID'ed in the movie will be treated as a MacGuffin and will be of no help.
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Old 29th July 2019, 06:13 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Iímnot sure how this got to be a hissy disagreement between you both.

Vishnuís vahana is Garuda
Omg they were the same guy the whole time! Let's rewatch the movie from the start to look for clues that foreshadowed the twist!
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
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Old 29th July 2019, 01:24 PM   #75
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Sorry, I should have used spoilers!
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